Looking For Experiences With Financially-based Relationships

[bonobo]

I have hesitated about posting this for advice because I know it will draw a lot of flak, and a similarly themed post recently got closed.  But I am very inexperienced in this kind of situation and want to know others' experiences.

I don't really deal with the commercial side of male-female interaction. I have taken customers out to experience the night-life, but it is not my personal thing.

I also know, and not just from the recently closed thread, that some men assist students with tuition and such in return for a relationship. I don't know if that is exactly quid-pro-quo or merely a happy man helping out his g/f (or is "g/f" even the right terminology?)

I have helped out a few girls I have known with one-time financial difficulties, but nothing on a regular or recurring basis. 

OK, this is my situation:  I recently met a woman on a dating website. We met, hit it off, and have gone out several times.  She is a older than the typical student, but has gone back to finish the degree she started some time ago. She is fun, happy, stunningly gorgeous, and a real pleasure with whom to spend time. She makes me laugh.

She is also quite poor. She freely admits that she is considering working in a pub. She claims that is only to be a waitress.  Unless she is an outstanding actress, she really does not have that much experience in intimacy, so I don't think she as delved into the sex-worker trade.

She has not asked for any money, but she has dropped a few hints that any help would be helpful.

Financially, I would not mind spending some money on tuition.  (I am still paying for my ex-wife's medical school, and that is quite a bit more.)  The money is no big deal.  But I have read so much on tv about the commercial side of relationships that I am wary.  Even after so many years here, I don't want to fall into that old-farang-falling-for-pretty-girl-who-hates-him-but-wants-the-money stereotype.

I can easily walk away now with few regrets. I have no real emotional attachment now. But as I wrote, she makes me laugh, and I enjoy her company.

So I am asking for others' experiences or observations. Is it possible to have a rewarding experience with someone when part of that has a regular financial aspect? If possible, is it likely?  

I am way out of my league here with very little personal observations.  And while I am sure there will be a number of flipant responses, I hope I can also receive some useful inputs.

[H2oDunc]

HI Bonobo, look the way I see it is give her what you are happy to give her but EXPECT nothing back. As long as you are happy doing that wheres the problem. f you have a relationshp with the girl its a bonus. There is a girl I know who I help out when I can. I know she does not have a lot of spare cash and has kids. Theres nothing in our relationship, just friends but I get a lot of satisfaction knowing Ive made a little difference. When I lived in Hua Hin I often used to barfine a girl in my local. Go eat and send her home or just give her the night off with a few hundred baht. As they say here " its up to you "

[britmaveric]

As long as you have no problem being an ATM its a win win situation for the lady in question.

[NanLaew]

^ Ahhhh, brit.... there was so much happiness and joy in this forum today.

Back to the OP, "Can a relationship be rewarding if it's based on finance"

I pulled my money out of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander 4 months ago and I am the happiest man I know right now.... apart from Murg.

And possibly brit

[Spee]

OK, this is my situation:  I recently met a woman on a dating website. We met, hit it off, and have gone out several times.  She is a older than the typical student, but has gone back to finish the degree she started some time ago. She is fun, happy, stunningly gorgeous, and a real pleasure with whom to spend time. She makes me laugh.

She is also quite poor. She freely admits that she is considering working in a pub. She claims that is only to be a waitress.  Unless she is an outstanding actress, she really does not have that much experience in intimacy, so I don't think she as delved into the sex-worker trade.

She has not asked for any money, but she has dropped a few hints that any help would be helpful.

To start with, I can offer an interesting anecdote from a friend of mine who tends to like southeast asian females. If he likes them and they are out and about, he gives them the equivalent of about $100. If they come back asking for more within a relatively short period, then he feels he has all the information about her that he needs, so to speak. It's an interesting perspective.

My recommendation would be to learn more about the woman, as well as her family before getting deeply involved in financial and emotional commitments. From experience, it's not easy. The early goings can be sort of like a "trust, but check" situation. That said, I don't think anyone should kid themselves about the financial side of ANY male/female relationship. In America, which has a sky-rocketing divorce rate, many of the problems originate as problems over money, usually the lack thereof.

While I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch, I think any lasting relationship is as much about business and financial management as it is about love, caring, understanding, etc. My partner also grew up very poor and we have had our share of squabbles about money. Slowly but surely, she is starting to understand the importance of a budget, that the money supply is finite, and the importance of saving. She can still go through money, having planned what she wants to buy over the next 6-12 months. But she knows we can't afford it all this month. On the other hand, in some ways this is no different than women of other cultures. I've known many who behave in the same way.

On the other hand, I took a chance from the very beginning. My partner had been burned in one form or another by every man she had ever encountered in her entire life. I felt like if I could make her trust me to take care of her for the rest of her life, then in turn she would take care of me for the rest of my life. So far, it looks like this "gamble" was worthwhile. That is not to say there aren't ups and downs, because we have our share. But, so far, so good.

Trust, but check. Take it slow. Get to know her family and some people from her village. Strive for understanding. Keep things on your terms. As long as you can live with your choices, it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[Sabum]

Bonobo, assume that everything she tells you is a lie to get you to think of her as a poor sweet girl you might fall in love with one day. Ex sex workers are not scraggly and hunch backed and often have no actual sex skill so not sure what you think the signs are..... If you are old and she is beautiful then you have your answer right there man, she is setting you up to pay her money for a relationship and you WILL be the guy that she basically hates but uses for cash. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you are aware of it and dont mind buying love. But do not fall into the trap of kidding yourself like so many heart broken falangs we keep hearing stories about. For some reason each and every one thinks they or their girl is different. The girls you meet online that talk to falangs are HUNTERS. You have taken the initial bait and now she is working on the big trap.

[MidoriApple]

Hi, bonobo

At first, I tend to just read this like a lurker whilst I have nothing to do with your matter.

(you know that I can't have this experience..at all, except I will try with handsome and sexy lad in the future..hehe )

But I have thought as a Thai woman who has a lot concerned for Thailand's reputation of beautiful ladies.

This is not to do the sarcastic to you at all believe me... is so true that Thai girls is mostly beautiful.... agree with me? huh..."definitely" ..is your answer...chai mhai ka?

Nah..I mean coin always has two sides, so it is possible to have some to take advantage from this reputation...

you know what I mean. So hopefully you will not mind if I'd like to express what's on my mind right now.

I will not say if she is genuine or not. Anyway, is good thing that you can help any people.

What I have wondered is how long have you known her so far? How many things that you have known about her?

Is enough to be ready to take this long-term responsibility for someone's financial thing?

It's true that money may not be a big deal to you, but it will be big deal if to give some help to people will be another way to spoil as well. Please... I really need you to carefully concern of this.

Actually, there are alternatives that you can go on helping her..like to instruct her to some more decent careers,

I don't mean to work as a waitress in a pub is awful but whilst she seems to be able to speak english though not fluent but can communicate and moreover, she has good personalilty

it is shamed to be just a waitress in any pub where I think she will get income not much different if compared to some decent restaurants.

But is worse that working in pubs takes more chance to be in the sex-worker trade if she is not strong enough.

I won't support anyone that I feel so good to be in that part al all.

I have got girls to work both full-time and part-time with me as sales assistants in some department stores. They can't speak English, finished Mathayom 6 at maximum.

I give them about 7000-10000 baht in each month. This amount is not much but enough for them to take good care of themselves in living and study in university here in Bangkok.

This to support that there are lots of job to do, no need of any skill or experience, just willing to work hard.

Bonobo, I am not to mean any bias to her, but IMO to give help with the money is easy but not the best way

Is absolutely not to help her to gain progressive in her own life.

I don't say this just because I am being in a sufficient living, Everyone will need to work hard to raise own self,

Me.. as wel..

I am sure she can manage taking care of herself, as seen at least until at the age more than a typical student which I assumed she is 20-something.

Don't be too worry, you just be a good company and help instruct her to the right thing.

What if she will become someone to you, let the time help telling your future.

Just my 2cents, anyway. The choices are all yours. Really wish you very best and good luck.

[bonobo]

Hi, bonobo

At first, I tend to just read this like a lurker whilst I have nothing to do with your matter.

(you know that I can't have this experience..at all, except I will try with handsome and sexy lad in the future..hehe )

But I have thought as a Thai woman who has a lot concerned for Thailand's reputation of beautiful ladies.

This is not to do the sarcastic to you at all believe me... is so true that Thai girls is mostly beautiful.... agree with me? huh..."definitely" ..is your answer...chai mhai ka?

Nah..I mean coin always has two sides, so it is possible to have some to take advantage from this reputation...

you know what I mean. So hopefully you will not mind if I'd like to express what's on my mind right now.

I will not say if she is genuine or not. Anyway, is good thing that you can help any people.

What I have wondered is how long have you known her so far? How many things that you have known about her?

Is enough to be ready to take this long-term responsibility for someone's financial thing?

It's true that money may not be a big deal to you, but it will be big deal if to give some help to people will be another way to spoil as well. Please... I really need you to carefully concern of this.

Actually, there are alternatives that you can go on helping her..like to instruct her to some more decent careers,

I don't mean to work as a waitress in a pub is awful but whilst she seems to be able to speak english though not fluent but can communicate and moreover, she has good personalilty

it is shamed to be just a waitress in any pub where I think she will get income not much different if compared to some decent restaurants.

But is worse that working in pubs takes more chance to be in the sex-worker trade if she is not strong enough.

I won't support anyone that I feel so good to be in that part al all.

I have got girls to work both full-time and part-time with me as sales assistants in some department stores. They can't speak English, finished Mathayom 6 at maximum.

I give them about 7000-10000 baht in each month. This amount is not much but enough for them to take good care of themselves in living and study in university here in Bangkok.

This to support that there are lots of job to do, no need of any skill or experience, just willing to work hard.

Bonobo, I am not to mean any bias to her, but IMO to give help with the money is easy but not the best way

Is absolutely not to help her to gain progressive in her own life.

I don't say this just because I am being in a sufficient living, Everyone will need to work hard to raise own self,

Me.. as wel..

I am sure she can manage taking care of herself, as seen at least until at the age more than a typical student which I assumed she is 20-something.

Don't be too worry, you just be a good company and help instruct her to the right thing.

What if she will become someone to you, let the time help telling your future.

Just my 2cents, anyway. The choices are all yours. Really wish you very best and good luck.

Thank you so much for the post.  

My best friend is Thai, and he and his friends "take care" of women the same why you describe. One, for example, just financed a small restaurant for a girl he has known for about 4 years or so. And that is what they advise me to do. So that goes along with what you have written.  I certainly have friends enough who can arrange a decent job for someone.

I am not sure she will even ask me straight out for anything.  She hasn't yet. But I am anticipating that she could. 

Right now, I am enjoying her company. And as long as here is no deceipt involved, I don't mind helping her out in the most productive way. And even if the proverbial "love" is not a factor, I still don't mind doing that. I just want there to be some degree of affection between us. I guess I don't want to be only being used.  

[GuestHouse]

Great post from MidoriApple.

I think at the very moment you hand over cash the basis of the relationship changes.

Go to any university anywhere in the world and you'll find people making huge personal sacrifices to get their education and the future that offers.

Encouraging someone to get their education and stand on their own feet is I think a very positive thing to do. Handing over cash, no matter how well intentioned, is I think setting out the path to dependency on others.

[lifeisrandom]

"also know, and not just from the recently closed thread, that some men assist students with tuition and such in return for a relationship."

lol most of the farang paying girls for a relationship are not doing so with students that is for sure.

[bonobo]

"also know, and not just from the recently closed thread, that some men assist students with tuition and such in return for a relationship."

lol most of the farang paying girls for a relationship are not doing so with students that is for sure.

 

Actually, most of the men that I know who are doing this are Thai.  Very few farangs of whom I am aware are doing this.

[Enjibenji]

would you like to be in a relationship with a girl that is thinking about your money 24/7?

who couldn't come to love you, but love your money and giveouts instead.

if this is the case, go for it

[rick75]

Helping Her to help Herself is a positive way of giving assistance as Midori said these girls and there familes survived before the farang came into the picture, I will say from personal experience it is hard to watch someone you care about struggle and I am sure that helping Her in unexpected ways will not do any harm, help her to buy school books or other educational related things, but handing over cash and saying here you go will only be harmfull in the long run.

[lifeisrandom]

"also know, and not just from the recently closed thread, that some men assist students with tuition and such in return for a relationship."

lol most of the farang paying girls for a relationship are not doing so with students that is for sure.

Actually, most of the men that I know who are doing this are Thai. Very few farangs of whom I am aware are doing this.

ok how r they meeting these girls in teh first place?

Edited October 17, 2008 by lifeisrandom

[jdinasia]

OK, this is my situation:  I recently met a woman on a dating website. We met, hit it off, and have gone out several times.  

HUH?

You live in BKK and have a business here, but are using dating websites to set up blind dates?

Sure give her the cash!

[bonobo]

OK, this is my situation:  I recently met a woman on a dating website. We met, hit it off, and have gone out several times.  

HUH?

You live in BKK and have a business here, but are using dating websites to set up blind dates?

Sure give her the cash!

What does working here have to do with joining a dating website?  People work in the US, too, and they still join match.com. 

I choose not to date any of my workers, and I have not had too much luck with friends setting me up. I tend to work late, and after driving home, I am not much in the mood to go out to whereever single people hang out, and that is even if I liked those kinds of places. So I really don't see a problem on joining any website.  (And you really need to learn the definition of "blind date.")

[JetsetBkk]

"also know, and not just from the recently closed thread, that some men assist students with tuition and such in return for a relationship."

lol most of the farang paying girls for a relationship are not doing so with students that is for sure.

Actually, most of the men that I know who are doing this are Thai. Very few farangs of whom I am aware are doing this.

ok how r they meeting these girls in teh first place?

Want to get in on the act?

Nobody tell him, please.

[NanLaew]

Handing over cash, no matter how well intentioned, is I think setting out the path to dependency on others.

Good point GH and is exactly what I kept telling the strippers in Houston.

[NanLaew]

ok how r they meeting these girls in teh first place?

uh oh, someone wants a hookup!

[NanLaew]

What does working here have to do with joining a dating website?  People work in the US, too, and they still join match.com.

 

So it's a crutch for the socially inadequate in the US as well. What's your point?

I choose not to date any of my workers, and I have not had too much luck with friends setting me up. I tend to work late, and after driving home, I am not much in the mood to go out to whereever single people hang out, and that is even if I liked those kinds of places. So I really don't see a problem on joining any website.  (And you really need to learn the definition of "blind date.")

Yes, I also have a buddy who bypasses the Friday after-work socialising so he can get home, shower, relax...

and surf the net for company.

[Ruperts]

Buying a girlfriend is a lot like buying a car. It looks nice, it's fun to ride, but once the novelty has worn off it's just another 'thing' that you own. Then it starts breaking down and causing problems in your day to day life. And then one day, as you're ripping around a corner, the condom splits and BANG, it's a write off. Out come the kids and noone else will buy it. Then you're stuck with this rusty old car in you garage which you can't stand the sight of.

[JimsKnight]

"also know, and not just from the recently closed thread, that some men assist students with tuition and such in return for a relationship."

lol most of the farang paying girls for a relationship are not doing so with students that is for sure.

Yeah, I msn with a student babe sometimes, her thai bf was her 'first' a few years ago and he paid her 300,000 baht (sind sod money) as he was fooling around with other girls and she was sick of it. No marriage, but kinda like a common law agreement to make up for the fact she's no longer a virgin.

I doubt she's in the bar scene, unless they now have escort quality student bars??

She's pretty independent and does her own thing now, does websites. I think she's make some farang very happy if he met up with her

I actually asked her about how many farang does she think go with students and she said not many, she went on to say that they tended to be company guys on expat packages. But when they go home, they leave the thai girl behind. So that's the way that one often goes.

I think you're getting a bit misty eyed on the whole 'supporting the girl thing' if you want to do it, do it. Don't let the whole westernised complex drag you about. You're in Thailand now, try bring a bit of your own man mate.

It doesn't make you a bad person helping someone else out.

[MKAsok]

Buying a girlfriend is a lot like buying a car. It looks nice, it's fun to ride, but once the novelty has worn off it's just another 'thing' that you own. Then it starts breaking down and causing problems in your day to day life. And then one day, as you're ripping around a corner, the condom splits and BANG, it's a write off. Out come the kids and noone else will buy it. Then you're stuck with this rusty old car in you garage which you can't stand the sight of.

A fascinating and insightful analogy... Thanks for sharing that.

[tracer5050]

As long as you are happy, Why would you care. I have been taking care of women all my life . Some i was married to cost me a whloe lot more than i spend here in LOS

[j0hnga1t]

bonobo, I'm in one of those financial relationships.  Ppl here at tv have laughed at me, but it's okay.  I met a girl who worked at a legit spa in the south pacific.  We became friends.  After I left the island, we corresponded via email, she moved back to Thailand to go back to school and then in July 07 I started dating her.  I help her with her tuition (60,000 baht/year).  That is finished now.  She is in her last semester.  We bought land (it's in her name).  Later I'll spend 100,000 baht to put a small house on it.  I give her 8,000 baht per month to give to her father and help with any additional expenses.  Even with my support, she still works to cover he own living expenses and some extra for her father in addition to the 8,000.  She is a very sweet girl, when I visit (five times already), she takes care of me when I'm there.  She is frugal, would rather me stay with her small room rather than stay at a hotel.  She washes my clothes and cooks for me etc........It works for me.  I call her from the US every morning and every night (at her insistence).  What I give her (including the land and small house) in an investment in her.  I need to see how she hands money and how greedy (if at all) she is.  So far so good.  Also if I find out she is psycho, I can walk away and still be okay.  Give what you are comfortable with.  Ask yourself, if you walked away or she walked away from the relationship, would you kick yourself?  Will it be easy to recover financially?  My g/f wants to buy a 4-5 rai plot of land with a fruit orchard on it (mature trees).  I told her no.  She's okay with it.  Also she is buddhist and meditates every morning and night.  I've meet her monk and her friends.  

As my friend said, I could save my money and be lonely (sex is one thing and a true relationship is another) or take a risk, with the upside being a comfortable life with a loving wife.  I'm willing to take a risk.  We plan to get married in late 2009, early 2010 (fiance visa to the US), but before we get engaged, she has to agree to a prenup agreement.  Everything is fine now, but when she comes to the US, she may change....I hope not and I hope that I'm a good judge of character, but I need to be smart about this because spending a week or two with her per trip is nice, but you don't really get a good feel for a person.  The first year or two here will be telling.

Good luck to you!  I trust no one, but in this case (and I've told her this), if we weren't friends for a year when we were both on the island in the south pacific, I would NOT have a relationship with her.

[jaiyenyen]

Buying a girlfriend is a lot like buying a car. It looks nice, it's fun to ride, but once the novelty has worn off it's just another 'thing' that you own. Then it starts breaking down and causing problems in your day to day life. And then one day, as you're ripping around a corner, the condom splits and BANG, it's a write off. Out come the kids and noone else will buy it. Then you're stuck with this rusty old car in you garage which you can't stand the sight of.

First of all, bonobo, if it makes you and the girl happy and you can afford it, do it. Although I would be careful not to give too much too soon.

Second, Ruperts. Theres an old saying: If it's got wheels or tits, it will end up letting you down and costing you money.

[JSixpack]

Financially, I would not mind spending some money on tuition.  

I have no real emotional attachment now. But as I wrote, she makes me laugh, and I enjoy her company.

If you pay money for tuition, be sure that you pay it directly to the school yourself.

Careful you don't get attached. As one poster said, expect no gratitude. If she has a Thai boyfriend, as she most likely does, she'll keep seeing him on the side unbeknownst to you. Assume you're being lied to already.

Personally, I'd keep my money for someone likely to be more sincere.

[sylviex]

How did she support herself from the time of ending her studies until now ? Is that way something which might be developed productively ?

Look carefully at what Midori Apple has said. Consider ways to genuinely help her, if that is your intention.

This need not always involve money.

Indeed, perhaps most helpful of all would be to encourage her to be financially independent and to know how she can ensure her own income in the future.

But it seems many prefer that their partners remain dependent. It gives them a certain power -- but never the power to buy love, or even affection. That comes from elsewhere. Rather, scorn and resentment are possible outcomes from the attempt to buy affection. It cannot bring respect.

However, I fear that's the way you are thinking:

Right now, I am enjoying her company. And as long as here is no deceipt involved, I don't mind helping her out in the most productive way. And even if the proverbial "love" is not a factor, I still don't mind doing that. I just want there to be some degree of affection between us. I guess I don't want to be only being used.

It seems to me you sense something amiss already. Listen to your instincts.

Give her the respect of not attempting a "purchase" and give yourself the respect of not making such an attempt.

[jfchandler]

There is something about the Thai custom and attitude toward being a university student...

I had an ex-GF and friend here who was and is a university student. I never supported her financially, but clearly she was interested in that. On my own, even though it had been suggested here above in this thread, I came to the conclusion that the better thing for me was to help her become self sufficient rather than simply doling out money as a sponsor.

So we had some long conversations about that, and how she, being quite personable and reasonably proficient in English, ought to be able to find a normal (not bar) part time job that she could do while finishing her studies. Over a period of time, she gave some half-hearted efforts at that, worked a little, and finally gave it up.

Within a year later, she had met and was being sponsored (XX,000 baht per month) by an English guy living abroad who, by her own admission, she was OK to date and be intimate with, but not in love with at all. As far as I know, she's still doing that to get thru school and not working or even trying to work.

When we talked before about the part-time job notion, her response to me was that Thai university students don't do that (work jobs to support their studies). They go to school, and after school, they study a bit and then want to have fun, that was her argument. None of her friends were working jobs, she pointed out. It also became very clear to me that for the typical Thai university student, the time demands of their studies are not so great that taking on part-time work would be a big problem.

Not being a univ. teacher here, I'm not in a position to opine on the share of Thai univ. students who support their studies through part time work (though I clearly know some do). In my own case, I paid for half of my university studies through working 3-4 nights a week on the graveyard (overnight) shift at 7-11s in the U.S., mopping floors and stocking shelves all through my college years.

So I tend to be a bit put off when people (Thai women) expect something to be handed to them for free, or, as the case may be, in exchange for having a sponsor. That's certainly the easier way out, I guess. But I'm not sure it's such a great thing for building character in today's Thai young people.

I guess one could think of sponsorships as a kind of job. But if you look at the practice that way, then, it's very clear what's being sold. And at that point, it becomes hard to separate that from what goes on in the bars.

[philstone]

I have hesitated about posting this for advice because I know it will draw a lot of flak, and a similarly themed post recently got closed. But I am very inexperienced in this kind of situation and want to know others' experiences.

I don't really deal with the commercial side of male-female interaction. I have taken customers out to experience the night-life, but it is not my personal thing.

I also know, and not just from the recently closed thread, that some men assist students with tuition and such in return for a relationship. I don't know if that is exactly quid-pro-quo or merely a happy man helping out his g/f (or is "g/f" even the right terminology?)

I have helped out a few girls I have known with one-time financial difficulties, but nothing on a regular or recurring basis.

OK, this is my situation: I recently met a woman on a dating website. We met, hit it off, and have gone out several times. She is a older than the typical student, but has gone back to finish the degree she started some time ago. She is fun, happy, stunningly gorgeous, and a real pleasure with whom to spend time. She makes me laugh.

She is also quite poor. She freely admits that she is considering working in a pub. She claims that is only to be a waitress. Unless she is an outstanding actress, she really does not have that much experience in intimacy, so I don't think she as delved into the sex-worker trade.

She has not asked for any money, but she has dropped a few hints that any help would be helpful.

Financially, I would not mind spending some money on tuition. (I am still paying for my ex-wife's medical school, and that is quite a bit more.) The money is no big deal. But I have read so much on tv about the commercial side of relationships that I am wary. Even after so many years here, I don't want to fall into that old-farang-falling-for-pretty-girl-who-hates-him-but-wants-the-money stereotype.

I can easily walk away now with few regrets. I have no real emotional attachment now. But as I wrote, she makes me laugh, and I enjoy her company.

So I am asking for others' experiences or observations. Is it possible to have a rewarding experience with someone when part of that has a regular financial aspect? If possible, is it likely?

I am way out of my league here with very little personal observations. And while I am sure there will be a number of flipant responses, I hope I can also receive some useful inputs.

I started doing what you are thinking of doing only good if you realize you can never buy anything in her near house car and every year it will cost more to stay with her. It cost the same as my married friends to Thai girls. What happens if you have baby with her? You being a nice guy will buy house and car for baby and start paying big money.