Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[Naam]

Jean-Marie Eveillard continues:

“The authorities should not be in the business of manipulating equity prices or manipulating any prices for that matter. They should let the markets clear. The Federal Reserve has placed a floor under the equity market, so traders and investors are taking advantage of it.

If there is a floor under the equity market, well, it cannot really go down or at least not by much, it can only go up.

the saga, fairy tale and conspiracy theory about the "Plunge Protection Team" is spread since 15 years (feb 1997)! looking at the DOW one wonders where and how the FED/PPT "put a floor" under the equity markets when the DOW lost more than half of its value from 14,000 to 6,600 in 2008/2009. some floor!

ah sez... PPT = food for ignorants who are not willing to do even a little bit of homework.

[12DrinkMore]

Jean-Marie Eveillard continues:

“The authorities should not be in the business of manipulating equity prices or manipulating any prices for that matter. They should let the markets clear. The Federal Reserve has placed a floor under the equity market, so traders and investors are taking advantage of it.

If there is a floor under the equity market, well, it cannot really go down or at least not by much, it can only go up.

the saga, fairy tale and conspiracy theory about the "Plunge Protection Team" is spread since 15 years (feb 1997)! looking at the DOW one wonders where and how the FED/PPT "put a floor" under the equity markets when the DOW lost more than half of its value from 14,000 to 6,600 in 2008/2009. some floor!

ah sez... PPT = food for ignorants who are not willing to do even a little bit of homework.

Probably a referral to the so-called "Greenspan Put".

Which was an attempt to manipulate market prices, as indeed is the current ZIRP fiasco through treasury purchases. The "Greenspan Put" could only hope to stop further falls by encouraging the purchase of stocks. But he could not set a floor across the entire market.

The current effort by the Bernank in purchasing vast quantities of UST's certainly has set a floor on Tim's bits of paper.

Edited May 3, 2012 by 12DrinkMore

[Naam]

Probably a referral to the so-called "Greenspan Put".

Which was an attempt to manipulate market prices, as indeed is the current ZIRP fiasco through treasury purchases. The "Greenspan Put" could only hope to stop further falls by encouraging the purchase of stocks. But he could not set a floor across the entire market.

The current effort by the Bernank in purchasing vast quantities of UST's certainly has set a floor on Tim's bits of paper.

what works with USTs with tiny spreads does not work with shares. the existence of PPT is a fairy tale. period!

[midas]

Probably a referral to the so-called "Greenspan Put".

Which was an attempt to manipulate market prices, as indeed is the current ZIRP fiasco through treasury purchases. The "Greenspan Put" could only hope to stop further falls by encouraging the purchase of stocks. But he could not set a floor across the entire market.

The current effort by the Bernank in purchasing vast quantities of UST's certainly has set a floor on Tim's bits of paper.

what works with USTs with tiny spreads does not work with shares. the existence of PPT is a fairy tale. period!

says who ? how do you know ?

Edited May 3, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

Probably a referral to the so-called "Greenspan Put".

Which was an attempt to manipulate market prices, as indeed is the current ZIRP fiasco through treasury purchases. The "Greenspan Put" could only hope to stop further falls by encouraging the purchase of stocks. But he could not set a floor across the entire market.

The current effort by the Bernank in purchasing vast quantities of UST's certainly has set a floor on Tim's bits of paper.

what works with USTs with tiny spreads does not work with shares. the existence of PPT is a fairy tale. period!

says who ? how do you know ?

says logic.

logic does of course not apply when people are used to let others do their homework... whatever results the homework of others comes up with and is then published in "good" yewtoob clips or interviews published by websites with an agenda.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Naam

[midas]

Probably a referral to the so-called "Greenspan Put".

Which was an attempt to manipulate market prices, as indeed is the current ZIRP fiasco through treasury purchases. The "Greenspan Put" could only hope to stop further falls by encouraging the purchase of stocks. But he could not set a floor across the entire market.

The current effort by the Bernank in purchasing vast quantities of UST's certainly has set a floor on Tim's bits of paper.

what works with USTs with tiny spreads does not work with shares. the existence of PPT is a fairy tale. period!

says who ? how do you know ?

says logic.

logic does of course not apply when people are used to let others do their homework... whatever results the homework of others comes up with and is then published in "good" yewtoob clips or interviews published by websites with an agenda.

at the end of the day what you have written " the existence of PPT is a fairy tale. period! " is only

your opinion and it should be made clear there are reasons to believe otherwise .

[ronz28]

The SPX bottomed at about 666 so its obvious that the devil controls the markets. Down to $666 on Gold?

Edited May 3, 2012 by ronz28

[midas]

The SPX bottomed at about 666 so its obvious that the devil controls the markets. Down to $666 on Gold?

I suggest a significant part of the market is being dictated by a combination of high frequency treating computers

and algorithms. But to even imply that the market is responding normally would be a fairy tale

[Naam]

at the end of the day what you have written " the existence of PPT is a fairy tale. period! " is only your opinion and it should be made clear there are reasons to believe otherwise .

of course it is my opinion which is based on simple research and logical conclusions based on facts. i have mentioned one clear fact (U.S. markets in 2008/09). but facts which do not match wishful thinking have been always disregarded whereas conspiracy tales published by yewtoob doom&gloomers or websites with an agenda are revered.

excellent examples for my claim are provided when one looks at the postings (period "gold alltime high sep 2011 > today). dozens and dozens of quotations why gold can only go up, up and UP with interludes "how much goat for how many Islamic gold coins in an Godforsaken Allahforsaken area" whereas the reality, available with a mouse click, shows a different picture.

[Jayman]

at the end of the day what you have written " the existence of PPT is a fairy tale. period! " is only your opinion and it should be made clear there are reasons to believe otherwise .

of course it is my opinion which is based on simple research and logical conclusions based on facts. i have mentioned one clear fact (U.S. markets in 2008/09). but facts which do not match wishful thinking have been always disregarded whereas conspiracy tales published by yewtoob doom&gloomers or websites with an agenda are revered.

excellent examples for my claim are provided when one looks at the postings (period "gold alltime high sep 2011 > today). dozens and dozens of quotations why gold can only go up, up and UP with interludes "how much goat for how many Islamic gold coins in an Godforsaken Allahforsaken area" whereas the reality, available with a mouse click, shows a different picture.

Just because the fundamentals show that gold should only be going up doesn't guarantee that it will. The fact that it isn't rising when the fundamentals point to a rise is evidence of manipulation.

Are you saying your example is that gold bugs say gold will only go up but it is lower today than the highs of 2011?

Feel free to play it how you and Mrs Naam are comfortable. Believe what you want through your "homework" and logical conclusions. Stay away from Naam unapproved websites and certainly youtube. This is all your prerogative. Why do you have to be so condescending to others that don't share your convictions?

Some of the things you say I agree with but most of the time you seem to me to be on quite a tall soap box.

I think you have chosen a very good avatar to represent yourself here.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Jayman

[ronz28]

Nothin could be finer than to hold a gold miner in the morning... well maybe not. Last time at this level we bounced but previously we sliced right through support. Things are different now....right? Chart from Gann360 on Twitter.

http://screencast.com/t/K5BWgtQBhWf

Edited May 3, 2012 by ronz28

[Naam]

at the end of the day what you have written " the existence of PPT is a fairy tale. period! " is only your opinion and it should be made clear there are reasons to believe otherwise .

of course it is my opinion which is based on simple research and logical conclusions based on facts. i have mentioned one clear fact (U.S. markets in 2008/09). but facts which do not match wishful thinking have been always disregarded whereas conspiracy tales published by yewtoob doom&gloomers or websites with an agenda are revered.

excellent examples for my claim are provided when one looks at the postings (period "gold alltime high sep 2011 > today). dozens and dozens of quotations why gold can only go up, up and UP with interludes "how much goat for how many Islamic gold coins in an Godforsaken Allahforsaken area" whereas the reality, available with a mouse click, shows a different picture.

Just because the fundamentals show that gold should only be going up doesn't guarantee that it will. The fact that it isn't rising when the fundamentals point to a rise is evidence of manipulation.

Are you saying your example is that gold bugs say gold will only go up but it is lower today than the highs of 2011?

Feel free to play it how you and Mrs Naam are comfortable. Believe what you want through your "homework" and logical conclusions. Stay away from Naam unapproved websites and certainly youtube. This is all your prerogative. Why do you have to be so condescending to others that don't share your convictions?

Some of the things you say I agree with but most of the time you seem to me to be on quite a tall soap box.

I think you have chosen a very good avatar to represent yourself here.

feel free to keep on with irrelevant yada yada yaketing Dude

[Jayman]

http://www.fxstreet....ate/2012/05/04/

found this article to be quite interesting as well as unbiased.. I have included some of it here...

Gold is down 1.6% on the week. The gold market has seen peculiar, lack lustre, low volume trading this week punctuated with sudden, oddly timed, very large sell orders. This leads to quick price falls followed either by slow, gradual recovery or a sharp bounce, prior to next bout of strangely timed sudden large sell orders.

This was clearly seen by the mysterious and massive $1.24 billion ‘Goldfinger’ trade on Monday.

While the $1.24 billion trade on Monday was attributed to a “fat finger” or algo trading in the gold market, there was a similar spike in volume at exactly the same time in silver – while all other markets saw little price movements.

There have been a few instances of this and it was seen yesterday again around 1330 GMT when there was a large 3,000 plus lot gold sell order which saw the price quickly fall by over $5 before a rapid recovery. Volume that size is unusual for that time of the day on the COMEX.

Yesterday the silver pits again suddenly saw the sale of some 200,000 lots in a minute or two that knocked the most-active SI future back a few cents (see chart below) and this led to silver breaching the $30/oz mark later in the session.

It is unusual to see a market building momentum in a certain direction and then to see massive sell orders in both the gold and silver market which then lead to further tech selling which can feed on itself.

At the same time there appear to be eager buyers at these levels who continue to accumulate on the dips. Ultimately prices will be dictated not by strange and potentially manipulative trading on the COMEX but by the global supply and demand of physical bullion.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Jayman

[midas]

http://www.fxstreet....ate/2012/05/04/

found this article to be quite interesting as well as unbiased.. I have included some of it here...

Gold is down 1.6% on the week. The gold market has seen peculiar, lack lustre, low volume trading this week punctuated with sudden, oddly timed, very large sell orders. This leads to quick price falls followed either by slow, gradual recovery or a sharp bounce, prior to next bout of strangely timed sudden large sell orders.

This was clearly seen by the mysterious and massive $1.24 billion ‘Goldfinger’ trade on Monday.

While the $1.24 billion trade on Monday was attributed to a “fat finger” or algo trading in the gold market, there was a similar spike in volume at exactly the same time in silver – while all other markets saw little price movements.

There have been a few instances of this and it was seen yesterday again around 1330 GMT when there was a large 3,000 plus lot gold sell order which saw the price quickly fall by over $5 before a rapid recovery. Volume that size is unusual for that time of the day on the COMEX.

Yesterday the silver pits again suddenly saw the sale of some 200,000 lots in a minute or two that knocked the most-active SI future back a few cents (see chart below) and this led to silver breaching the $30/oz mark later in the session.

It is unusual to see a market building momentum in a certain direction and then to see massive sell orders in both the gold and silver market which then lead to further tech selling which can feed on itself.

At the same time there appear to be eager buyers at these levels who continue to accumulate on the dips. Ultimately prices will be dictated not by strange and potentially manipulative trading on the COMEX but by the global supply and demand of physical bullion.

Ultimately prices will be dictated not by strange and potentially manipulative trading on the COMEX but by the global supply and demand of physical bullion.

it should be interesting to see what affect the Pan Asian Gold Exchange

will have when it starts trading next month

" What are the consequences when PAGE opens for international business in June 2012?

Eventually foreigners will also be able to trade the International Spot Contracts on PAGE and hence this will help increase the liquidity of the market and certainly will have a big impact on both the LBMA and COMEX .

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article32678.html

Edited May 4, 2012 by midas

[Jayman]

it should be interesting to see what affect the Pan Asian Gold Exchange

will have when it starts trading next month

" What are the consequences when PAGE opens for international business in June 2012?

Eventually foreigners will also be able to trade the International Spot Contracts on PAGE and hence this will help increase the liquidity of the market and certainly will have a big impact on both the LBMA and COMEX .

http://www.marketora...ticle32678.html

I thought PAGE was put on hold? Is was supposed to open before the close of last year. I had heard the western banks got the Chinese to drop the idea. Certainly if PAGE goes online then I believe we will see some heavy movement to the upside in gold and silver.

My fingers are crossed for PAGE to become a reality.

http://kingworldnews...old_Market.html

I was looking through that article you posted Midas and there is some good stuff there. I wonder what happened to the Greece gold now that they have defaulted on their loans. They used that gold as collateral. Have the central banks just stripped Greece from it's gold as part pf the "haircut" agreement? It's certainly much easier for the big banks to take a "haircut" on the fiat paper they are owed when they are getting gold in return. Not so easy for those not getting any gold for their participation in the "haircut"

Edited May 4, 2012 by Jayman

[Naam]

I was looking through that article you posted Midas and there is some good stuff there. I wonder what happened to the Greece gold now that they have defaulted on their loans. They used that gold as collateral.

if said "good stuff" contained the claim that Greece pledged its gold holdings as collateral that a part of the "good stuff" is plain rubbish. fact is that Greece did not pledge anything, neither for its restructured souvereign debt nor for the new debt which was issued based on a haircut of 80%.

It's certainly much easier for the big banks to take a "haircut" on the fiat paper they are owed when they are getting gold in return...

...and the gold is handed out by the Fairy Queen and her niece the Tooth Fairy.

p.s. keep up the good job posting nonsense.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Naam

[Jayman]

if said "good stuff" contained the claim that Greece pledged its gold holdings as collateral that a part of the "good stuff" is plain rubbish. fact is that Greece did not pledge anything, neither for its restructured souvereign debt nor for the new debt which was issued based on a haircut of 80%.

It's certainly much easier for the big banks to take a "haircut" on the fiat paper they are owed when they are getting gold in return...

...and the gold is handed out by the Fairy Queen and her niece the Tooth Fairy.

p.s. keep up the good job posting nonsense.

Ok there Lt.

Well I'm sure in your recent homework you came across the NY Times article where this came out.

http://www.nytimes.c...ilout.html?_r=1

“This is the first time ever that a European and probably an O.E.C.D. state abdicates its rights of immunity over all its assets to its lenders,” said Louka Katseli, an independent member of Parliament who previously represented the Socialist Party, using the abbreviation for the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. She was one of several independents who joined 43 lawmakers from the two largest parties in voting against the loan agreement.

Ms. Katseli, an economist who was labor minister in the government of George Papandreou until she left in a cabinet reshuffle last June, was also upset that Greece’s lenders will have the right to seize the gold reserves in the Bank of Greece under the terms of the new deal, and that future bonds issued will be governed by English law and in Luxembourg courts, conditions more favorable to creditors.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article33287.html

The Reuters Global Gold Forum confirms that in the small print of the Greek “bailout” is a provision for the creditors to seize Greek national gold reserves. Reuters correspondents in Athens have not got confirmation that this is the case so they are, as ever, working hard to pin that down.

Greece owns just some 100 tonnes of gold. According to IMF data, for some reason over the last few months Greece has bought and sold the odd 1,000 ounce lot of its gold bullion reserves. A Reuter’s correspondent notes that “these amounts are so tiny that it could well be a rounding issue, rather than holdings really rising or falling.”

While many market participants would expect that Greece’s gold reserves would be on the table in the debt agreement, it is the somewhat covert and untransparent way that this is being done that is of concern to Greeks and to people who believe in the rule of law.

Recent months have seen many senior German government officials calling for so called “PIIGS” nations gold reserves to be used as collateral. Such as Angela Merkel’s budget speaker and his opposition counterpart who urged Portugal to consider selling their gold.

Norbert Barthle, Germany’s governing coalition budget speaker and his counterpart Carsten Schneider from the Social Democrats, the biggest opposition party, urged Portugal to consider selling some of its gold reserves to ease its debt problems. They called for a review of Portugal’s request for financial aid to include gold and other potential asset sales.

The Irish Times reported in November that EU finance ministers’ discussed a wider strategy by the ECB to sound out the possibility of gaining control over the gold reserves of the euro zone’s central banks.

Senior German politician, Gunther Krichbaum, a lawmaker in German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s governing coalition and Chairman of the Committee on the Affairs of the European Union of the German Bundestag has proposed late last year that Italy sell its sizeable gold reserves in order to lower its debt.

Gold’s importance as debt and third party risk free collateral and as the ultimate form of money is increasing by the day.

While Greece’s gold reserves are very small – Greece’s creditors and senior German and EU financial officials clearly understand the value and monetary and strategic importance of Greece and the other heavily indebted European nations gold reserves.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Jayman

[mccw]

^ in my opinion these countries would be better off withdrawing from the eu , defaulting and setting their new currencies against their gold reserves at a nice low rate but with credibility enough so can will not collapse and good for international trade.

But of course the inter bankers 4th riech will steam ahead, sweeping democracy aside and strip these countries of all assets while creating massive pool of cheap desperate labour to work in zee factories.

Break the welfare state and become economic power house with central gold holdings backing motherland of all EU.

Glorious!

[Naam]

Well I'm sure in your recent homework you came across the NY Times article where this came out.

in investment terms whatever was discussed on a monday is water under the bridge on tuesday. presenting in may some news from february when even involved parties had no idea what the "Greek outcome" would be is nothing but ridiculous. copying and pasting various wishi-washi "loud thinking" of politicians and journalists from times long gone does not change any facts.

in short: Greece has never pledged any gold as collateral for debt. none of the creditors received a single ounce of gold when Greece's debt was restructured. gold collateral nonsense closed!

[Naam]

to put things into perspective for those who do not master basic arithmetics. the total gold holdings of Greece have an approximate value of less than USD 5 billion. the nominal value of restructured Greek debt was USD 227 billion.

today, dear children, we will try to calculate the percentage of potential gold collateral some wishful thinkers and dreamers had in mind, not taking into account Greek public debt that was not restructured.

-no Joey, 5 billion do not represent 5% of 227 billion!

-who knows the answer... Hank?

-sorry Hank, 20% is way off!

-well... anybody???

[Naam]

^ in my opinion these countries would be better off withdrawing from the eu , defaulting and setting their new currencies against their gold reserves at a nice low rate but with credibility enough so can will not collapse and good for international trade.

But of course the inter bankers 4th riech will steam ahead, sweeping democracy aside and strip these countries of all assets while creating massive pool of cheap desperate labour to work in zee factories.

Break the welfare state and become economic power house with central gold holdings backing motherland of all EU.

Glorious!

especially glorious is to suggest "setting their new currencies against gold reserves". in the case of Greece that would mean the available amount of currency in circulation is limited to an equivalent of 455 US-Dollars per inhabitant.

brilliant!

[chiang mai]

to put things into perspective for those who do not master basic arithmetics. the total gold holdings of Greece have an approximate value of less than USD 5 billion. the nominal value of restructured Greek debt was USD 227 billion.

today, dear children, we will try to calculate the percentage of potential gold collateral some wishful thinkers and dreamers had in mind, not taking into account Greek public debt that was not restructured.

-no Joey, 5 billion do not represent 5% of 227 billion!

-who knows the answer... Hank?

-sorry Hank, 20% is way off!

-well... anybody???

[midas]

I thought PAGE was put on hold? Is was supposed to open before the close of last year. I had heard the western banks got the Chinese to drop the idea. Certainly if PAGE goes online then I believe we will see some heavy movement to the upside in gold and silver.

My fingers are crossed for PAGE to become a reality.

http://kingworldnews...old_Market.html

Jayman that may have all been superseded by news that appeared in a forum you can read at this

link

http://www.pmbug.com...june-2012-a-12/

if you go down to post number 9 somebody called Swiss Austrian wrote on 03-02-2012

" I want to get to the good news. The original people behind the international PAGE contract, they stepped aside from PAGE when it ran into this interference (from the New York based entity ). They moved to set up their own dedicated international exchange. "

\

Edited May 5, 2012 by midas

[mccw]

^ in my opinion these countries would be better off withdrawing from the eu , defaulting and setting their new currencies against their gold reserves at a nice low rate but with credibility enough so can will not collapse and good for international trade.

But of course the inter bankers 4th riech will steam ahead, sweeping democracy aside and strip these countries of all assets while creating massive pool of cheap desperate labour to work in zee factories.

Break the welfare state and become economic power house with central gold holdings backing motherland of all EU.

Glorious!

especially glorious is to suggest "setting their new currencies against gold reserves". in the case of Greece that would mean the available amount of currency in circulation is limited to an equivalent of 455 US-Dollars per inhabitant.

brilliant!

Does that mean they can not make a fractional currency against those reserves? No. Make a sustainable economy like the Thai kings and trade the surpluses for gold to increase the real money supply. Let foreigners buy currency in exchange for gold to create new money from tourism. Gold goes down they are more attractive place to visit- gold goes up they are richer nation can buy internationally.

One day nations will have to revert to sustainability and wealth through actual production and real trade of real things.

Im sure that what we're living now is the begging of the transition to new system/ death throws of the last. maybe it takes 10, 20, 50 year.

(elites will still control the lions share of course since they are not stupid and will stock piled and be buying up plenty physical gold reserves while flogging paper to muppets)

[midas]

^ in my opinion these countries would be better off withdrawing from the eu , defaulting and setting their new currencies against their gold reserves at a nice low rate but with credibility enough so can will not collapse and good for international trade.

But of course the inter bankers 4th riech will steam ahead, sweeping democracy aside and strip these countries of all assets while creating massive pool of cheap desperate labour to work in zee factories.

Break the welfare state and become economic power house with central gold holdings backing motherland of all EU.

Glorious!

especially glorious is to suggest "setting their new currencies against gold reserves". in the case of Greece that would mean the available amount of currency in circulation is limited to an equivalent of 455 US-Dollars per inhabitant.

brilliant!

Does that mean they can not make a fractional currency against those reserves? No. Make a sustainable economy like the Thai kings and trade the surpluses for gold to increase the real money supply. Let foreigners buy currency in exchange for gold to create new money from tourism. Gold goes down they are more attractive place to visit- gold goes up they are richer nation can buy internationally.

One day nations will have to revert to sustainability and wealth through actual production and real trade of real things.

Im sure that what we're living now is the begging of the transition to new system/ death throws of the last. maybe it takes 10, 20, 50 year.

(elites will still control the lions share of course since they are not stupid and will stock piled and be buying up plenty physical gold reserves while flogging paper to muppets)

Naam loves paper..... are you suggesting he is.......

[Naam]

Does that mean they can not make a fractional currency against those reserves? No. Make a sustainable economy like the Thai kings and trade the surpluses for gold to increase the real money supply. Let foreigners buy currency in exchange for gold to create new money from tourism. Gold goes down they are more attractive place to visit- gold goes up they are richer nation can buy internationally.

One day nations will have to revert to sustainability and wealth through actual production and real trade of real things.

Im sure that what we're living now is the begging of the transition to new system/ death throws of the last. maybe it takes 10, 20, 50 year.

(elites will still control the lions share of course since they are not stupid and will stock piled and be buying up plenty physical gold reserves while flogging paper to muppets)

of course one can create a fractional currency against a static reserve like gold, no matter how tiny and therefore no matter how ridiculous and credible. estimated M3 is ~€ 300 billion vs. gold reserves of € 3.7 billion.

the word "surplus" does not exist since decades in Greece. even though Greece's financial problems were visible to the naked eye since early 2009 the country managed to spend in 2011 ~€ 120 billion when revenues were only € 96 billion.

Let foreigners buy currency in exchange for gold to create new money from tourism.

now i am lost!

[Naam]

Naam loves paper..... are you suggesting he is.......

true! and with income as well as capital gains producing "paper" i can buy whenever i please an ever increasing equivalent value of gold or any other tangible assets -e.g. Islamic Dinars and Dirhams- of my liking.

[vladavs]

What do you think, can we make money by shopping, by going to the store and buying everyday oridanary things in supermarkets, shops, mega markets....?

The Win-Win Company makes this possible for you.

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Take advantage to get yourself a free Win-Win consumer card which makes it possible for you to MAKE MONEY BY BUYING!!!

[mccw]

Does that mean they can not make a fractional currency against those reserves? No. Make a sustainable economy like the Thai kings and trade the surpluses for gold to increase the real money supply. Let foreigners buy currency in exchange for gold to create new money from tourism. Gold goes down they are more attractive place to visit- gold goes up they are richer nation can buy internationally.

One day nations will have to revert to sustainability and wealth through actual production and real trade of real things.

Im sure that what we're living now is the begging of the transition to new system/ death throws of the last. maybe it takes 10, 20, 50 year.

(elites will still control the lions share of course since they are not stupid and will stock piled and be buying up plenty physical gold reserves while flogging paper to muppets)

of course one can create a fractional currency against a static reserve like gold, no matter how tiny and therefore no matter how ridiculous and credible. estimated M3 is ~€ 300 billion vs. gold reserves of € 3.7 billion.

the word "surplus" does not exist since decades in Greece. even though Greece's financial problems were visible to the naked eye since early 2009 the country managed to spend in 2011 ~€ 120 billion when revenues were only € 96 billion.

Let foreigners buy currency in exchange for gold to create new money from tourism.

now i am lost!

I mean the government sets a finite amount of paper against its gold reserves. If other countries, business require that paper then they must buy it from the government with gold. Cow jai? New money from the new gold.

Not just for tourism but business , so the wealth created stays in country.

Regarding the debt and spending of euros since 2009 , it is completely meaningless. I'm proposing what must be a sustainable system, for richer for poorer, but what i think could be a decent result/ new way. It's the current system of endless debt which is unsustainable; your point of spending and debt levels to real assets only furthers my argument and discredits your own. I'm not even sure what your argument is; one minute your accepting that this current system is deeply flawed and the next your denouncing ideas of any other, the next your saying how you hold a stack of physical in case of collapse while advocating endless roles of this same dice.

I think you enjoy making money in this existing system and don't want to see It end- neither do I actually. Life and business is good for me. But I think there's a good chance it will have to change in my life time - so its worth thinking about future alternatives and preparing. Which you obviously do because of the gold stack.

Naam from an ostrich

Edited May 5, 2012 by mccw

[Jayman]

Well I'm sure in your recent homework you came across the NY Times article where this came out.

in investment terms whatever was discussed on a monday is water under the bridge on tuesday. presenting in may some news from february when even involved parties had no idea what the "Greek outcome" would be is nothing but ridiculous. copying and pasting various wishi-washi "loud thinking" of politicians and journalists from times long gone does not change any facts.

in short: Greece has never pledged any gold as collateral for debt. none of the creditors received a single ounce of gold when Greece's debt was restructured. gold collateral nonsense closed!

It wasn't just discussed on Monday and now is forgotten as you so wrongly assume but rather was voted on (passed) and the agreement was signed. Now unless you would like to show us where the signed agreement has been torn up and a new one has taken it's place then I think you need to do some more homework.

Also your point about math is totally childish. No one said that ONLY gold was pledged for the debt. Also, it doesn't matter what % of the debt the gold would cover, the point is that if greece pledges it's gold for collateral and defaults on the debt then they lose the gold. No need for your math formula Lt.

Lets look at part of the quote again...

“This is the first time ever that a European and probably an O.E.C.D. state abdicates its rights of immunity over all its assets to its lenders,” said Louka Katseli, an independent member of Parliament who previously represented the Socialist Party, using the abbreviation for the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

ALL ITS ASSETS. Gold just happens to be included in there and since we are discussing gold here that is what I have been discussing.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Jayman