Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[Abrak]

My eyes are not good enough to make out the1st chart even when enlarged but,,,

In the 2nd chart they are saying that the value of all gold mined is more than the value of any fiat currencies?

I see they are valuing the gold at US$806.62...I think?

So what does this say to the argument that always pops up about there not being enough gold to convert to a gold backed system?

Just to be a little clearer the chart shows gold against 'currency in circulation' broadly M0. I am sure if you had a gold backed currency you would for instance like your deposits backed by gold too.

The chart shows US M0 at about US$800bn. Broader calculations of the money supply are much higher M2 at around US$8.5trn and M3 over US$10trn. On that basis alone there is not enough gold to cover US MS let alone anyone elses.

[Naam]

Nothing particularly noteworthy going on here yet.

except, contrary to the expectations of pure bred goldbugs, gold has been going NOWHERE since 1½ years

[sokal]

Nothing particularly noteworthy going on here yet.

except, contrary to the expectations of pure bred goldbugs, gold has been going NOWHERE since 1½ years

And where the hel_l has anything else gone in the last 1.5 years ? stocks ? houses ? Gold is the ONLY thing holding value right now and you don't even know it.

[churchill]

German Gold Reserves in New York

On March 17, 2008, the day that Bear Stearns failed, international journalist Max Keiser interviewed officials at the Bundesbank, the German central bank. Keiser's report, released just a few days ago, contains a stunning admission. Toward the end of his report (posted at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzVhzoAqMhU), Keiser stated, "The most fascinating thing I've learned is that all the gold in Germany is in New York."

In the past, the Bundesbank has denied that German gold reserves were in the custody of the United States. To now reveal the truth may well cause a great controversy in German political circles.

A few years ago, Bundesbank officials admitted that it had engaged in gold swaps on behalf of another central bank, but did not identify the other party. At the time, several analysts figured that meant the Bundesbank had cooperated with the U.S. government in gold price suppression activities.

The Germans could have liquidated physical gold stored in Germany on behalf of the U.S. government and replaced it by taking title to gold stored in U.S. government vaults. It was around this time that the U.S. government completely changed its report on U.S. gold holdings from referring to them as "reserves" to calling them "Custodial gold and silver reserves."

As I write this, it isn't possible to predict the extent of the fallout of this revelation. At a minimum, I would expect a public outcry in Germany calling for gold reserves to be shipped back home.

Such a request could put the U.S. government on the spot, as there is some concern that the German gold reserves are no longer intact. Some or all of it may have been distributed to the public as part of gold price suppression schemes. If so, any request by the German government to return gold could cause a severe supply squeeze. To prevent a surge in gold demand sparked by this revelation, there could be significant price suppression efforts early this week.

There were other significant developments in the gold market last week.

continued http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Articl...;ArticleId=7113

[Naam]

Nothing particularly noteworthy going on here yet.

except, contrary to the expectations of pure bred goldbugs, gold has been going NOWHERE since 1½ years

And where the hel_l has anything else gone in the last 1.5 years ? stocks ? houses ? Gold is the ONLY thing holding value right now and you don't even know it.

i leave the knowledge about gold to you and limit my knowledge to the fact that my portefolio YTD is +44.92% (by investing 24% of my depot value in financial subordinates most of which tripled in value). realised about 60% of the profits but too early as these assets still ROCK

[badge]

Nothing particularly noteworthy going on here yet.

except, contrary to the expectations of pure bred goldbugs, gold has been going NOWHERE since 1½ years

And where the hel_l has anything else gone in the last 1.5 years ? stocks ? houses ? Gold is the ONLY thing holding value right now and you don't even know it.

Yes, by a very simplistic measure, Gold can be said to be the strongest major asset of the last 18 months.

But if your 'long only' i.e only able to Buy(Long) instruments you could of plumped for Govt. bonds which have fared pretty well if timed right, or Equity Short ETFs that rise as equities fall, or even just bought equities or corp. bonds in the last 5 or 9 months respectively All would have out-performed Gold, its just all down to timing.

I personally think Gold is a crass yellow metal devoid of any real use.

That said, if it breaks out beyond $1030 I'll still buy some

[Naam]

I personally think Gold is a crass yellow metal devoid of any real use.

i agree it is (nearly... kinda... sort of) useless but it doesn't look too bad around the neck and on the wrists of Mrs Naam.

[Abrak]

I personally think Gold is a crass yellow metal devoid of any real use.

i agree it is (nearly... kinda... sort of) useless but it doesn't look too bad around the neck and on the wrists of Mrs Naam.

I feel both of you have a rather sexist attitude towards gold.

In my opinion the substance gives women enormous and unfathomable amounts of pleasure (which even if it is hard to understand is blatantly there.) More importantly they place a very high value on it (possibly more than the current price.)

These qualities mean that it is inherently highly useful even though you might not appreciate its underlying qualities at all.

[Naam]

I personally think Gold is a crass yellow metal devoid of any real use.

i agree it is (nearly... kinda... sort of) useless but it doesn't look too bad around the neck and on the wrists of Mrs Naam.

I feel both of you have a rather sexist attitude towards gold.

In my opinion the substance gives women enormous and unfathomable amounts of pleasure (which even if it is hard to understand is blatantly there.) More importantly they place a very high value on it (possibly more than the current price.)

These qualities mean that it is inherently highly useful even though you might not appreciate its underlying qualities at all.

no disagreement in this respect!

[sokal]

Nothing particularly noteworthy going on here yet.

except, contrary to the expectations of pure bred goldbugs, gold has been going NOWHERE since 1½ years

And where the hel_l has anything else gone in the last 1.5 years ? stocks ? houses ? Gold is the ONLY thing holding value right now and you don't even know it.

i leave the knowledge about gold to you and limit my knowledge to the fact that my portefolio YTD is +44.92% (by investing 24% of my depot value in financial subordinates most of which tripled in value). realised about 60% of the profits but too early as these assets still ROCK

One nice thing about the internet is that everyone can claim that they invested 100% during the March lows. Yeah right.

Your nominal gains are only the result of the dollar losing value, why do you think that the USD also happens to be hitting YTD lows ?

If you think gold means nothing then go invest in the Zimbabwe stock market, you will have allot higher nominal gains then 44%.

[sokal]

Nothing particularly noteworthy going on here yet.

except, contrary to the expectations of pure bred goldbugs, gold has been going NOWHERE since 1½ years

And where the hel_l has anything else gone in the last 1.5 years ? stocks ? houses ? Gold is the ONLY thing holding value right now and you don't even know it.

Yes, by a very simplistic measure, Gold can be said to be the strongest major asset of the last 18 months.

But if your 'long only' i.e only able to Buy(Long) instruments you could of plumped for Govt. bonds which have fared pretty well if timed right, or Equity Short ETFs that rise as equities fall, or even just bought equities or corp. bonds in the last 5 or 9 months respectively All would have out-performed Gold, its just all down to timing.

I personally think Gold is a crass yellow metal devoid of any real use.

That said, if it breaks out beyond $1030 I'll still buy some

Gold is the only form of currency on the planet that is not an IOU. If every person on earth paid off all their debts there would be no money in the banks, that is how bad it is right now.

[Naam]

name='sokal' date='2009-08-12

One nice thing about the internet is that everyone can claim that they invested 100% during the March lows. Yeah right.

Your nominal gains are only the result of the dollar losing value, why do you think that the USD also happens to be hitting YTD lows ?

If you think gold means nothing then go invest in the Zimbabwe stock market, you will have allot higher nominal gains then 44%.

what the eff are you talking about? i am a German living in Thailand and i measure the performance of my portefolio in €UR. my USD exposure is miniscule and i did not buy only in march but in december, january, february, april, may, june, july and august till yesterday and i will buy today too when the markets in Europe open.

by the way, the graph i posted is an AIG bond denominated in CHF (Swiss Francs), its ISIN Number is CH0025631067. that doesn't mean anything to you? OOPS, i forgot that a goldbug does not deal in ISINs.

[lannarebirth]

except, contrary to the expectations of pure bred goldbugs, gold has been going NOWHERE since 1½ years

And where the hel_l has anything else gone in the last 1.5 years ? stocks ? houses ? Gold is the ONLY thing holding value right now and you don't even know it.

i leave the knowledge about gold to you and limit my knowledge to the fact that my portefolio YTD is +44.92% (by investing 24% of my depot value in financial subordinates most of which tripled in value). realised about 60% of the profits but too early as these assets still ROCK

One nice thing about the internet is that everyone can claim that they invested 100% during the March lows. Yeah right.

Your nominal gains are only the result of the dollar losing value, why do you think that the USD also happens to be hitting YTD lows ?

If you think gold means nothing then go invest in the Zimbabwe stock market, you will have allot higher nominal gains then 44%.

One thing about the internet is, you can call someone a liar and not get punched in the nose. I have seen Dr. Naam's statements and it is just as he says. Forgive me Herr Doktor if I betrayed a confidence.

[flying]

I have seen Dr. Naam's statements and it is just as he says. Forgive me Herr Doktor if I betrayed a confidence.

Yes & I have seen his pool....Although he has not asked me over for a swim yet

Kidding aside without knowing him I still have respect for his obvious financial knowledge....as well as a few others on this board

[FiboT03]

I personally think Gold is a crass yellow metal devoid of any real use.

i agree it is (nearly... kinda... sort of) useless but it doesn't look too bad around the neck and on the wrists of Mrs Naam.

I feel both of you have a rather sexist attitude towards gold.

In my opinion the substance gives women enormous and unfathomable amounts of pleasure (which even if it is hard to understand is blatantly there.) More importantly they place a very high value on it (possibly more than the current price.)

These qualities mean that it is inherently highly useful even though you might not appreciate its underlying qualities at all.

"gives women enormous and unfathomable amounts of pleasure"

"hard to understand but its blatantly there"

"they place a high value"

"inherently highly useful even though you might not appreciate its underlying qualities at all"

With the exception of "hardness" (perennial that is .. ) you've described MAN.

[badge]

Gold is the only form of currency on the planet that is not an IOU. If every person on earth paid off all their debts there would be no money in the banks, that is how bad it is right now.

thats a nice theory, however singapore airlines dont currently accept Gold, neither does my credit card co., or Villa, or le normandie

(plus the paper Gold bubble will be the last to pop in my opinion. whether this will be spot +ve or -ve is up for debate.)

[Naam]

SOKAL: One nice thing about the internet is that everyone can claim that they invested 100% during the March lows. Yeah right. Your nominal gains are only the result of the dollar losing value, why do you think that the USD also happens to be hitting YTD lows ? If you think gold means nothing then go invest in the Zimbabwe stock market, you will have allot higher nominal gains then 44%.

lannarebirth: One thing about the internet is, you can call someone a liar and not get punched in the nose. I have seen Dr. Naam's statements and it is just as he says. Forgive me Herr Doktor if I betrayed a confidence.

no such thing like betrayal LRB. my preference for financial subs was openly discussed with TV-member Abrak in the thread "Financial Crisis" a couple of months ago. but whatever, somebody who's postings clearly prove that he possesses a wealth of "no freaking idea" as far as investments are concerned cannot insult me but makes me chuckle.

[Abrak]

Gold is the only form of currency on the planet that is not an IOU. If every person on earth paid off all their debts there would be no money in the banks, that is how bad it is right now.

Apart from the highly debatable concept of gold actually being a currency (and even if it is why shouldnt silver be).

What I dont understand is the concept that if every person on earth paid of its debts there would be no money in the banks. How could a financial institution be financed on such a basis.

To me the financial crisis reflects a clear view that this is not the case. There is no money in the banks because it is seen that people cannot repay their debts.

[Jake1]

Gold is the only form of currency on the planet that is not an IOU. If every person on earth paid off all their debts there would be no money in the banks, that is how bad it is right now.

Apart from the highly debatable concept of gold actually being a currency (and even if it is why shouldnt silver be).

What I dont understand is the concept that if every person on earth paid of its debts there would be no money in the banks. How could a financial institution be financed on such a basis.

To me the financial crisis reflects a clear view that this is not the case. There is no money in the banks because it is seen that people cannot repay their debts.

Money(as we know it today) is debt. All money is loaned into circulation. All money is therefore owed to someone else. With no loans you have no money. With an interest rate attached to all the loans you have to forever increase the debt load or the debt system collapses.

[sokal]

name='sokal' date='2009-08-12

One nice thing about the internet is that everyone can claim that they invested 100% during the March lows. Yeah right.

Your nominal gains are only the result of the dollar losing value, why do you think that the USD also happens to be hitting YTD lows ?

If you think gold means nothing then go invest in the Zimbabwe stock market, you will have allot higher nominal gains then 44%.

what the eff are you talking about? i am a German living in Thailand and i measure the performance of my portefolio in €UR. my USD exposure is miniscule and i did not buy only in march but in december, january, february, april, may, june, july and august till yesterday and i will buy today too when the markets in Europe open.

by the way, the graph i posted is an AIG bond denominated in CHF (Swiss Francs), its ISIN Number is CH0025631067. that doesn't mean anything to you? OOPS, i forgot that a goldbug does not deal in ISINs.

I am not interested in futures, derivatives and all those other day trader vehicles.

I wish I could sell all my gold and gold stocks and buy solid dividend yielding stocks but I cant because the worlds reserve currency has been high jacked by a group of Keynesian radicals like Ben Bernanke. Are you aware that there is 592 trillion dollars worth of derivatives on record at the Bank of International Settlements ?

[sokal]

Gold is the only form of currency on the planet that is not an IOU. If every person on earth paid off all their debts there would be no money in the banks, that is how bad it is right now.

thats a nice theory, however singapore airlines dont currently accept Gold, neither does my credit card co., or Villa, or le normandie

(plus the paper Gold bubble will be the last to pop in my opinion. whether this will be spot +ve or -ve is up for debate.)

There is no evidence of gold bubble, its just the opposite, most people are doubting gold. If there was a bubble, most people would own gold. Look at this very thread, everyone is slamming gold. That doesn't sound like a bubble to me.

Edited August 12, 2009 by sokal

[sokal]

SOKAL: One nice thing about the internet is that everyone can claim that they invested 100% during the March lows. Yeah right. Your nominal gains are only the result of the dollar losing value, why do you think that the USD also happens to be hitting YTD lows ? If you think gold means nothing then go invest in the Zimbabwe stock market, you will have allot higher nominal gains then 44%.

lannarebirth: One thing about the internet is, you can call someone a liar and not get punched in the nose. I have seen Dr. Naam's statements and it is just as he says. Forgive me Herr Doktor if I betrayed a confidence.

no such thing like betrayal LRB. my preference for financial subs was openly discussed with TV-member Abrak in the thread "Financial Crisis" a couple of months ago. but whatever, somebody who's postings clearly prove that he possesses a wealth of "no freaking idea" as far as investments are concerned cannot insult me but makes me chuckle.

I am from the Austrian school of economics, I get statements like that from Keynesians every day.

[flying]

thats a nice theory, however singapore airlines dont currently accept Gold, neither does my credit card co., or Villa, or le normandie

I think you might be wrong there. It is in fact accepted but none would be silly enough to use it.

If used as legal tender ( which it is ) it will be accepted at face value.

A 1 oz. Gold Eagle would be accepted as $50 USD.

Folks have actually paid their taxes here in the US in Silver dollars which of course the IRS gladly scooped up. Of course as I said it would be foolish as in any country anywhere in the world you take that same gold $50 coin to the local gold dealer/exchange & get $950 USD (today 8/12/09) instead of $50. Now try that with any fiat you may have. Take a $50/USD equivalent of any fiat go anywhere in the world & see if you get that kind of uptick

Apart from the highly debatable concept of gold actually being a currency (and even if it is why shouldnt silver be).

What I dont understand is the concept that if every person on earth paid of its debts there would be no money in the banks. How could a financial institution be financed on such a basis.

To me the financial crisis reflects a clear view that this is not the case. There is no money in the banks because it is seen that people cannot repay their debts.

Actually gold & silver is money ( you said currency) as I pointed out above. But if you want to say currency even that would be true . Just ask any Central Bank. Notice they keep large amounts of Gold? The more they hold correlates with who is more powerful ...no?

What do they call these holdings?

As for what you said you do not understand....It is long to describe properly but you can look at fractional reserve banking & see it is true. Or view some of the great videos such as Money As Debt or Money Masters

Edited August 12, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

name='sokal' date='2009-08-12

One nice thing about the internet is that everyone can claim that they invested 100% during the March lows. Yeah right.

Your nominal gains are only the result of the dollar losing value, why do you think that the USD also happens to be hitting YTD lows ?

If you think gold means nothing then go invest in the Zimbabwe stock market, you will have allot higher nominal gains then 44%.

what the eff are you talking about? i am a German living in Thailand and i measure the performance of my portefolio in €UR. my USD exposure is miniscule and i did not buy only in march but in december, january, february, april, may, june, july and august till yesterday and i will buy today too when the markets in Europe open.

by the way, the graph i posted is an AIG bond denominated in CHF (Swiss Francs), its ISIN Number is CH0025631067. that doesn't mean anything to you? OOPS, i forgot that a goldbug does not deal in ISINs.

I am not interested in futures, derivatives and all those other day trader vehicles.

I wish I could sell all my gold and gold stocks and buy solid dividend yielding stocks but I cant because the worlds reserve currency has been high jacked by a group of Keynesian radicals like Ben Bernanke. Are you aware that there is 592 trillion dollars worth of derivatives on record at the Bank of International Settlements ?

you are

quote: "from the Austrian school of economics"

but you think a bond is a derivative and therefore a favourite of daytraders? Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury... i rest my case

[sokal]

name='sokal' date='2009-08-12

One nice thing about the internet is that everyone can claim that they invested 100% during the March lows. Yeah right.

Your nominal gains are only the result of the dollar losing value, why do you think that the USD also happens to be hitting YTD lows ?

If you think gold means nothing then go invest in the Zimbabwe stock market, you will have allot higher nominal gains then 44%.

what the eff are you talking about? i am a German living in Thailand and i measure the performance of my portefolio in €UR. my USD exposure is miniscule and i did not buy only in march but in december, january, february, april, may, june, july and august till yesterday and i will buy today too when the markets in Europe open.

by the way, the graph i posted is an AIG bond denominated in CHF (Swiss Francs), its ISIN Number is CH0025631067. that doesn't mean anything to you? OOPS, i forgot that a goldbug does not deal in ISINs.

I am not interested in futures, derivatives and all those other day trader vehicles.

I wish I could sell all my gold and gold stocks and buy solid dividend yielding stocks but I cant because the worlds reserve currency has been high jacked by a group of Keynesian radicals like Ben Bernanke. Are you aware that there is 592 trillion dollars worth of derivatives on record at the Bank of International Settlements ?

you are

quote: "from the Austrian school of economics"

but you think a bond is a derivative and therefore a favourite of daytraders? Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury... i rest my case

Even though I didn't say that, a bond can be a derivative. A mortgage backed security is a derivative and also a bond.

[Naam]

Even though I didn't say that, a bond can be a derivative. A mortgage backed security is a derivative and also a bond.

yada... yada... yada... you have the right to remain silent... anything you say can and could be used to ridicule you. but as you have (repeatedly) been ridiculing yourself there's no need for others to do that.

[FiboT03]

Nothing particularly noteworthy going on here yet.

except, contrary to the expectations of pure bred goldbugs, gold has been going NOWHERE since 1½ years

And where the hel_l has anything else gone in the last 1.5 years ? stocks ? houses ? Gold is the ONLY thing holding value right now and you don't even know it.

i leave the knowledge about gold to you and limit my knowledge to the fact that my portefolio YTD is +44.92% (by investing 24% of my depot value in financial subordinates most of which tripled in value). realised about 60% of the profits but too early as these assets still ROCK

If you're crass/dumb or both to post such claims, it opens a door - one has already walked in and I'm the 2nd.

Post the proof.

Thai Police in BKK are looking for a duo that bilked 3 Norwegians, 1 Swede and 2 Americans (at least - others surfacing?) on precisely the type of investments you mentioned here. Coincidence? Maybe, but given that your backer ( the 2nd one in the duo?) came in rapidly to provide verbal proof of your claims - suspicious.

You opened the door .....

[Naam]

Thai Police in BKK are looking for a duo that bilked 3 Norwegians, 1 Swede and 2 Americans (at least - others surfacing?) on precisely the type of investments you mentioned here. Coincidence?

is it a coincidence that certain persons are on the loose and some men in white suits (from an asylum for the mentally deranged) are looking for them to wrap them in white suits with overlong sleeves and decorative tassels?

less humorous is the fact that you are clearly accusing a long standing member of Thaivisa (known personally to a dozen or so other members) of a crime. but uneducated àssholes (like you) are a dime a dozen and the readers of this forum are used to them and treat there verbal excretions accordingly.

[lannarebirth]

[Abrak]

As for what you said you do not understand....It is long to describe properly but you can look at fractional reserve banking & see it is true. Or view some of the great videos such as Money As Debt or Money Masters

Isnt fractional reserve banking some fairly ancient concept whereby a central bank controlled the money supply through the reserves it made banks pay? Havent the banks say in the US had a zero reserve requirement for several years now on time deposits? I might as well go back and look at the gold standard. The only existing reserve requirements are essentially on M1 which is approximately 15% of M2 and even less of M three. Bank balance sheets can therefore be expanded without regard to reserve requirements and in any case reserves can always be borrowed through the Fed.

My very simple point was that in general a bank has assets (loans), liabilities (deposits) and equity to finance itself. Theoretically, if all loans were paid in full as well as all liabilities repaid, a bank would be left with money on its balance sheet roughly equivalent to its equity.