Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[Naam]

would you trust , want Romney in power ....... I hope not .

the U.S. had a texan village idiot in charge who ran the country financially down. his democratic successor did not fare much better. but nobody in charge of the White House, assuming he is not a complete moron, will think of another war in the Middle East under the prevailing global circumstances. i have no idea about Romney except that his financial background proves that he is not a moron.

besides, it's easy for Romney to issue threats based on "if Iran develops nuclear weapons" because what Iran is doing is enriching Uranium to an extent that nobody can prove. and once they have weaponsgrade material it's (most probably) too late for action. for years the same threats were used vs North Korea. now everybody has piped down.

just my two Satangs of personal opinion without any guarantee that i am right.

[Naam]

-the value of gold reserves is miniscule compared to most countries national debt.

A component of the speculative up side to gold is that a satisfactory solution might be found by (a fiat) revaluing of gold upward by the major sovereign holders.

as the revaluing of gold upwards hurts nobody .. unlike other commodities .....

yep! there is the dream, once spread by Dyler Turd and his null-hedge companions, about gold being revalued to $ 58,000 / ounce to back all $-cash in circulation. i wish i could share that dream because it would approximately quadruple the value of my liquid capital (physical gold held not included).

there we go, i gave two variables. can any maths wizard figure out the present value?

[mccw]

Naam "value of gold reserves is minuscule" - xyz low %.

But They are talking about 6% reserve requirements. So if gold instantly provides 1-3% of that then its no paltry amount. Presumably the bank adhering to the Basel will be looking to maintain and distinguish themselves as credit worthy in the sea of insolvency. Also you know 1 unit of "investment" capital can be leveraged hundreds of % through various ways so a few extra billion of real capital could equate to hundreds of billions to play with.

Also it makes sense this idea of allowing gold to inflate to further inflate the money supply. Since basically we are in a problem of end of the line for sustainable debt based money supply, bringing in gold and inflating it solves this problem.

Through the "paper" representatives of gold "they" can (attempt) control its assent through slow withdrawal of the paper, so that their power through the fiat system remains and continues. Perhapse this new bottom of around 1600 is being held in preparation for this, + while forcing through new powers of the unellected elites. ESM, renewal of the federal reserve act, and such.

Just theory and of course we can't know, but will see.

It may well not be so easily managed and all hell breaks loose.

(I am just about about to "invest" in a back up generator still pondering size and weather to get a battery bank swell , www.topgen.co.uk/domestic-generators.html http://www.generators.co.uk/Product/Silent/Diesel_Pramac )

[Naam]

Naam "value of gold reserves is minuscule" - xyz low %.

But They are talking about 6% reserve requirements. So if gold instantly provides 1-3% of that then its no paltry amount.

please Mccw... pretty please! do not mix up the gold reserves of a sovereign entity like the U.S. of A., Japan or Germany with those of "regular" banks.

there are no reserve requirements for sovereigns or their central banks.

the Basel agreement applies to freaking bread-and-butter-around-the-corner or in ivory towers residing banks, i.e. where the banksters "work" who cheat us with fees, rigging Libor rates, markets and what not to take money from your and my pocket to put it in their pockets.

Also you know 1 unit of "investment" capital can be leveraged hundreds of % through various ways so a few extra billion of real capital could equate to hundreds of billions to play with.

for the record i know that these kind of fairy tales exist but i am not ignorant enough to believe them. by the way, hundreds of % of a few extra billions do not equate to "hundreds of billions". at least that was the case when i studied mathematics which was mandatory for my physics studies.

[Naam]

Quote of the day:

"Moody's has confirmed Finland's AAA rating because Finland has received collateral against the rescue loans it contributed to. This is the solution for Germany." Hans-Werner Sinn, President of the German Ifo Institute. (Source:WirtschaftsWoche)

Herr Sinn (english "Sense") talks nonsense! the Finnish part of the Greece rescue loan was tiny and could easily be covered with some of the Greek gold holdings which are valued at $ 5.8 billion. up to this very moment the total rescue amount for Greece exceeds $ 115 billion (and mounting).

Spain has just been "awarded" a rescue package in excess of $ 100 billion just for its troubled banks. one Spanish province after the other reveals that they are insolvent. the total value of Spains gold holdings is ~$ 15 billion.

perhaps Herr UNsinn thinks of Greece pawning some of its islands, Spain the contents of its national museum Prado in Madrid and Portugal (Gold reserves $ 20 billion) to send forced labour as hostages to Germany?

Edited July 29, 2012 by Naam

[mccw]

Also you know 1 unit of "investment" capital can be leveraged hundreds of % through various ways so a few extra billion of real capital could equate to hundreds of billions to play with.

for the record i know that these kind of fairy tales exist but i am not ignorant enough to believe them. by the way, hundreds of % of a few extra billions do not equate to "hundreds of billions". at least that was the case when i studied mathematics which was mandatory for my physics studies.

On CNBC they often show this guys trades, starting with $100 they show exactly how it's leveraged, then leveraged again and again to be presto $10000 , the they show the trade and result $100 in and + or minus xy out. If joe blogs can do it obviously big banks can do it and to a greater extent most likely.

-

Regarding Basel

I though it applied to all signatories, I don't know if any sovereigns are, but obviously that's what I was talking about as you were also talking about gold reserves of USA, Japan etc; however the same reasons still apply as with normal banks regarding gold as an alternative "currency" or asset that is free from the spectre of devaluation or sovereign default.

Good enough reason for them to hold it and good enough reason for me also. I'll be adding to my personal reserves over the next couple of months. Buying before the "fiscal cliff"

[Gary A]

Not sure about your fetish with basements and canned food ..... ' Obama gets re-elected then a staple supply of tinned food in the basement is an absolute must. '

being a Thatcherite I disagree ...... Romney .....what a joke ... if he gets elected I would be worried ....

'In a major foreign policy move scheduled for late Sunday in Israel, Mitt Romney will deliver an unmistakable warning to Iran that war is inevitable should the Islamic Republic develop nuclear weapons.'

http://politicaltick...arning-to-iran/

will this be number umpteen of unmistakable warnings?

would you trust , want Romney in power ....... I hope not .

My stock broker certainly isn't making any money, at least from me. I have most of my money in a money market making nearly nothing. I asked him to take a look at several stocks that I considered buying. He advised me to sit on my money and not to buy anything until after the election and then wait until after the first of the year. He is much smarter than I am and he is of the opinion that if Obama gets reelected, things will get much worse. I am heeding that advice.

[churchill]

Also you know 1 unit of "investment" capital can be leveraged hundreds of % through various ways so a few extra billion of real capital could equate to hundreds of billions to play with.

for the record i know that these kind of fairy tales exist but i am not ignorant enough to believe them. by the way, hundreds of % of a few extra billions do not equate to "hundreds of billions". at least that was the case when i studied mathematics which was mandatory for my physics studies.

On CNBC they often show this guys trades, starting with $100 they show exactly how it's leveraged, then leveraged again and again to be presto $10000 , the they show the trade and result $100 in and + or minus xy out. If joe blogs can do it obviously big banks can do it and to a greater extent most likely.

-

Regarding Basel

I though it applied to all signatories, I don't know if any sovereigns are, but obviously that's what I was talking about as you were also talking about gold reserves of USA, Japan etc; however the same reasons still apply as with normal banks regarding gold as an alternative "currency" or asset that is free from the spectre of devaluation or sovereign default.

Good enough reason for them to hold it and good enough reason for me also. I'll be adding to my personal reserves over the next couple of months. Buying before the "fiscal cliff"

'Today’s plans would also force firms to ring-fence and not re-use collateral so that it wouldn’t be lost to the company that posts it if a trader goes bankrupt.

There is a “broad consensus” among regulators that “the re-use of initial margin should be prohibited,” the committee said. Still, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission believes it should be allowed “in very limited circumstances.”'

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-06/basel-group-seeks-tougher-rules-for-non-centrally-cleared-swaps.html

[Naam]

On CNBC they often show this guys trades, starting with $100 they show exactly how it's leveraged, then leveraged again and again to be presto $10000 , the they show the trade and result $100 in and + or minus xy out. If joe blogs can do it obviously big banks can do it and to a greater extent most likely.

i give it one last try Mccw and i will keep it simple. if you still mix up things after that i will give up.

if CNBC showed the possibility leveraging 100 to 10,000 they banked on the ignorance of viewers what percentage of loan one can get for a certain collateral. to leverage you need to borrow the difference between your own capital and the total final leveraged value.

in olden times AAA rated collateral had a loan value of 90%. even assuming that these 90% are today still valid (they are not) the afore-mentioned 100 could theoretically buy an additional 890, a loan value of 80% would result in 550 and for a loan value of 50% the result would be a mere 280.

If joe blogs can do it

think! if one Joe could do it a zillion other Joes would do it too. unfortunately one Joe could do it only on CNBC but not in the real world.

[mccw]

On CNBC they often show this guys trades, starting with $100 they show exactly how it's leveraged, then leveraged again and again to be presto $10000 , the they show the trade and result $100 in and + or minus xy out. If joe blogs can do it obviously big banks can do it and to a greater extent most likely.

i give it one last try Mccw and i will keep it simple. if you still mix up things after that i will give up.

if CNBC showed the possibility leveraging 100 to 10,000 they banked on the ignorance of viewers what percentage of loan one can get for a certain collateral. to leverage you need to borrow the difference between your own capital and the total final leveraged value.

in olden times AAA rated collateral had a loan value of 90%. even assuming that these 90% are today still valid (they are not) the afore-mentioned 100 could theoretically buy an additional 890, a loan value of 80% would result in 550 and for a loan value of 50% the result would be a mere 280.

If joe blogs can do it

think! if one Joe could do it a zillion other Joes would do it too. unfortunately one Joe could do it only on CNBC but not in the real world.

There're is an advert for "internax" I think it was - "for every €100,000 in a trading account we will lend 1million euros".

If you had a loan of 900 say then used the cash to deposit for a further loan and again and again. Same like rehypothication with the banks except they don't even own the original asset in the first place.

What's the fairy tale here?

Tomorrow if I wanted I could Take a loan against my gold, deposit the cash in to internax and bet 1.1million € on the movement of the ibex at x3 = 3.3million in gamble from the initial fractional starting point.

I'm sure their are other vehicles to use as displayed on the news channels, only my lack of gambling desire hasn't kept my attention to remember all the details, but why or how would they lie about this? The whole point of them program's seems to be to get people involved to play the game, gamble so the house can clear up.

By your Aaa way the leverage would be even greater than my example, so really- what are you on about?

This is like when you scattered your marbles all over the floor with attempt to say demand and supply doesn't effect price movement because there is still a buyer and a seller (odd ball icon;)

[mccw]

"a zillion other" joes don't do it for the same reason everyone doesn't run to Vegas to throw away their life savings.

[Naam]

"a zillion other" joes don't do it for the same reason everyone doesn't run to Vegas to throw away their life savings.

did Joe at CNBC throw away his life savings or did he gain with his leverage? make up your mind!

[Naam]

i give up

[mccw]

"a zillion other" joes don't do it for the same reason everyone doesn't run to Vegas to throw away their life savings.

did Joe at CNBC throw away his life savings or did he gain with his leverage? make up your mind!

What you on about? We're talking leverage possibilities not the out comes!

Obviously one can win or loose.

CNBC joe wins a mostly but also seen him loose big on a couple.

He's obviously quite knowledgeable and the whole point is to try and tempt the suckers in with promise of big profits, but I still not 100% of course so for a real layman it's definitely a serious gamble. $100 leveraged up could wipe out all or a good portion of your assets.

But banks aren't bothered so much because it's not their money at stake! They leverage our money and if they fuc_k up get the tax payer to foot the bill!!!

Pull that head out of the sand.

What happens when the populas is bled dry? Anarchy? Gold inflation? Total collapse? Something has to give.

[Naam]

But banks aren't bothered so much because it's not their money at stake! They leverage our money and if they fuc_k up get the tax payer to foot the bill!!!

it is good to have friends who reveal truths such as "two plus two equals four". how would one otherwise come to know of these facts?

[Naam]

What happens when the populas is bled dry? Anarchy? Gold inflation? Total collapse?

as already mentioned... gold will be valued @ $ 58,000 an ounce and all of us who hold gold will be reach beyond any dreams.

[Naam]

Not sure about your fetish with basements and canned food ..... ' Obama gets re-elected then a staple supply of tinned food in the basement is an absolute must. '

being a Thatcherite I disagree ...... Romney .....what a joke ... if he gets elected I would be worried ....

'In a major foreign policy move scheduled for late Sunday in Israel, Mitt Romney will deliver an unmistakable warning to Iran that war is inevitable should the Islamic Republic develop nuclear weapons.'

http://politicaltick...arning-to-iran/

"journàsslistic move" Romney said something quite different than "war is inevitable". this is what he said:

While not directly referring to military force, Mr Romney said the US should "employ any and all measures to dissuade the Iranian regime from its nuclear course."

"It is our fervent hope that diplomatic and economic measures will do so. In the final analysis, of course, no option should be excluded."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19035134

[yoshiwara]

But banks aren't bothered so much because it's not their money at stake! They leverage our money and if they fuc_k up get the tax payer to foot the bill!!!

it is good to have friends who reveal truths such as "two plus two equals four". how would one otherwise come to know of these facts?

The statement 'banks are not bothered too much' is silly.

[mccw]

But banks aren't bothered so much because it's not their money at stake! They leverage our money and if they fuc_k up get the tax payer to foot the bill!!!

it is good to have friends who reveal truths such as "two plus two equals four". how would one otherwise come to know of these facts?

The statement 'banks are not bothered too much' is silly.

I'll rephrase that.

They have a greater appetite for risk when underwritten by the government / tax payer.

Or

their great greed has no check in the form of bankruptcy so abounds unbridled.

Which ever way you put it I think most would agree its a major problem. Only the bankers and their lackeys try to defend the total lack of responsibility.

[cloudhopper]

Worth a read IMO -

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/07/recent-gold-hype-sounds-like-grade.html

[Naam]

Worth a read IMO -

http://globaleconomi...like-grade.html

indeed!

[churchill]

he forgot key evidence from .......The ..... ' London Banker " ..

and sprott is just about to buy .. http://www.mining.com/were-buying-seven-million-ounces-of-silver-eric-sprott-13503/

[cloudhopper]

he forgot key evidence from .......The ..... ' London Banker " ..

and sprott is just about to buy .. http://www.mining.co...c-sprott-13503/

I saay old man why do you think anyone would want to announce they are going to be buying big - in any market?

[Naam]

he forgot key evidence from .......The ..... ' London Banker " ..

and sprott is just about to buy .. http://www.mining.co...c-sprott-13503/

I saay old man why do you think anyone would want to announce they are going to be buying big - in any market?

because he's drunk?

[yoshiwara]

he forgot key evidence from .......The ..... ' London Banker " ..

and sprott is just about to buy .. http://www.mining.co...c-sprott-13503/

I saay old man why do you think anyone would want to announce they are going to be buying big - in any market?

because he's drunk?

Because he would be hoping to make a turn on a momentum trade. He wouldn't mind, for example, buying at 29 if the direction is up. Buying at 28 is no good if the direction is nowhere. He is trying to ramp up interest and whatever his future plans, he might have a considerable exposed position right now. The suggestion that forum gold hoarders do anything similar would be shocking to hear.

[Jayman]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/korea-economy-reserves-idUSL4E8J17JD20120802

South Korean central bank says it bought 16 tonnes of gold in July

* S.Korea raises gold reserves by nearly 30 pct to 70.4

tonnes

* S.Korea's third gold purchase since last June

* Stabilising markets in July allow it to pursue purchase

[fletchsmile]

Well I guess for the last year the answer to "where is gold going in this market?" has been "nowhere of interest really", so what have the last hundred pages or so said to confirm this

[Naam]

Well I guess for the last year the answer to "where is gold going in this market?" has been "nowhere of interest really", so what have the last hundred pages or so said to confirm this

why do i have the feeling that those who started buying gold a year ago might beg to differ? that does of course not apply to any of the resident experts

[Jayman]

Well well.. now the Swiss are "talking" of repatriating their gold

http://www.goldmoney...?gmrefcode=gata

here is the actual initiative they are trying to gather signatures for

http://www.goldinitiative.ch/

of course this is only being headed by a member of parliament. that would be like Ron Paul getting a "Audit the Fed" bill passed....

we all know how crazy that sounds....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/25/house-passes-ron-pauls-audit-fed-bill/?page=all

Edited August 2, 2012 by Jayman

[yoshiwara]

Well I guess for the last year the answer to "where is gold going in this market?" has been "nowhere of interest really", so what have the last hundred pages or so said to confirm this

why do i have the feeling that those who started buying gold a year ago might beg to differ? that does of course not apply to any of the resident experts

Indeed.