Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[Naam]

joke aside, here's some food for thoughts for an FT journasslist

(and those who believe in him) who doesn't own a pocket calculator

and rehashes for the umpteenth time the rubbish others presented

umpteen times before him:

country.......total public debt $.........gold reserves $.....gold % of debt

Italy...........2,223,000,000,000......133,000,000,000...........6.00%

Portugal........510,000,000,000........21,000,000,000..........4.12%

Greece.........315,000,000,000.........6,100,000,000...........1.94%

Spain.........2,166,000,000,000........15,000,000,000..........0.69%

[churchill]

joke aside, here's some food for thoughts for an FT journasslist

(and those who believe in him) who doesn't own a pocket calculator

and rehashes for the umpteenth time the rubbish others presented

umpteen times before him:

country.......total public debt $.........gold reserves $.....gold % of debt

Italy...........2,223,000,000,000......133,000,000,000...........6.00%

Portugal........510,000,000,000........21,000,000,000..........4.12%

Greece.........315,000,000,000.........6,100,000,000...........1.94%

Spain.........2,166,000,000,000........15,000,000,000..........0.69%

out of interest how would those figures work if gold was valued at say $10,000........ being conservative

Edited August 31, 2012 by churchill

[mccw]

how about a pooling of the eurozone gold reserves at the ecb and a gold backed euro where 1 euro equals 1 tenth of an ounce or 100th even?

buy by debt. hello competitiveness. ?

joke aside, here's some food for thoughts for an FT journasslist

(and those who believe in him) who doesn't own a pocket calculator

and rehashes for the umpteenth time the rubbish others presented

umpteen times before him:

country.......total public debt $.........gold reserves $.....gold % of debt

Italy...........2,223,000,000,000......133,000,000,000...........6.00%

Portugal........510,000,000,000........21,000,000,000..........4.12%

Greece.........315,000,000,000.........6,100,000,000...........1.94%

Spain.........2,166,000,000,000........15,000,000,000..........0.69%

out of interest how would those figures work if gold was valued at say $10,000........ being conservative

[Naam]

joke aside, here's some food for thoughts for an FT journasslist

(and those who believe in him) who doesn't own a pocket calculator

and rehashes for the umpteenth time the rubbish others presented

umpteen times before him:

country.......total public debt $.........gold reserves $.....gold % of debt...$10,000.....$20,000

Italy...........2,223,000,000,000......133,000,000,000...........6.00%..........35.47%.....70.94%

Portugal........510,000,000,000........21,000,000,000..........4.12%..........24.36%.....48.72%

Greece.........315,000,000,000.........6,100,000,000...........1.94%..........11.47%.....22.94%

Spain.........2,166,000,000,000........15,000,000,000..........0.69%............4.08%.......8.16%

out of interest how would those figures work if gold was valued at say $10,000........ being conservative

take a look at the red figures.

[Naam]

how about a pooling of the eurozone gold reserves at the ecb and a gold backed euro where 1 euro equals 1 tenth of an ounce or 100th even?

buy by debt. hello competitiveness. ?

add all EU-debt/gold holding multiply gold value 10/100, but i fail to see any logic in this exercise. at today's gold value Germany's fancy gold reserves of 3,400 tons would cover only 4.02% of its public debt, i.e. less than the ratio of Italy or Portugal

[mccw]

how about banking and fiscal union controlled by german regulators followed by a pooling of gold reserves at the ecb and a gold backed euro? euro being 100th of an onz or more. how ever is nessarcarry to massively devalue to be competative but still with stability since fixed to gold.

[Naam]

how about banking and fiscal union controlled by german regulators followed by a pooling of gold reserves at the ecb and a gold backed euro? euro being 100th of an onz or more. how ever is nessarcarry to massively devalue to be competative but still with stability since fixed to gold.

-cash €UR as of july 31, 2012 ~921,000,000,000

-book €UR estimated...........11,500,000,000,000

-total €UR approximateley....12,400,000,000,000

-€-value gold reserves..............697,968,480,000 - (15,784 tons end 2010)

-percentage gold/existing €UR.....................5.63%

a 100% gold backing would require a gold price of USD 29,938 / ounce

a devaluation of €UR by a factor of 17.762 to match 100% backing at today's price of gold, id est €1 would buy 2 Baht 20 Satang and it would take €14 and 12 c€nts to buy USD1

next "competitive" question please

[Naam]

a devaluation of €UR by a factor of 17.762 to match 100% backing at today's price of gold, id est €1 would buy 2 Baht 20 Satang and it would take €14 and 12 c€nts to buy USD1

taking the fiction further, after all it's weekend and we don't have to follow any markets:

-filling up a car in Germany (70 liters of gasoline 98 octane) would cost € 2,238

-our cook would earn € 4,091 / month

-the old car i bought in may in Thailand would have cost me € 2,049,700

-our home in Thailand would be worth nearly € 12 million

[Gary A]

Hind sight is 20-20. Over the years, it has become a tradition to buy my wife a baht of gold for her birthday. Had I bought all those trinkets in bulk years ago, it wouldn't have cost me 25,000 baht this year.

I think I paid 8,000 baht for a one baht trinket the first time I started this stupid tradition.

[manarak]

I went long in gold, financing the position by shorting CHF against USD to pay minimum interest, so in fact I hold XAUCHF.

I'm convinced gold will go up because of the following reasons:

- China slows down, this is already known, but it keeps slowing down even more

- With China slowing down, the resources sector is at risk, causing money outflow from AUD. RBA officials are surprised the AUD didn't fall more sharply, I think it takes no genius to recognize the AUD is the last freely tradable & healthy currency that is paying some interest, that's why it had a massive influx of capital.

- The EUR: in short, the EUR is f*cked and will stay f*cked for a long time. The reason I am unwilling to go long EUR is that I am unsure it has yet hit rock bottom. Many share my concerns, and more and more people in Europe take preventive measures against increased fiscal pressure (i.e. by fleeing the country, or at least sending their money elsewhere). There is a real danger of Germany being pulled down with the rest, and then the biggest spender will be gone. Danger Will Robinson!

- The USD: The USD is more or less in the same situation as Europe, but has much more potential for rebound. But at the moment, it is also unclear whether the USD has seen the low or if it will recover quickly, slowly, or ever.

- both EUR and USD will be pulled down by injection of fake money into the economy by their central banks (either quantitative easing or bond buyback/issue).

What remains? Gold, Platinum, Silver.

Gold has the most potential for a bubble, because of the multiplication of "paper gold", i.e. funds, futures, warrants, etc.

May our future be golden!

and in the meanwhile of discussing Assange, gold went UP, since Bernanke's speech painted a black picture of the US economy, raising the probability that the Fed will inject money into the economy.

YAY

:-)

Regarding proposals for a currency, I believe the best way to have a stable currency would be to have it backed by a basket of commodities, things like foodcrops, energy and metal resources.

For example, one unit of the currency "Stabilor" could be defined as being equivalent to a certain quantity of:

- wheat

- corn

- sugar

- coffee

- natural gas

- crude oil

- copper

- iron

- gold

- silver

etc.

To guarantee the currency, it has to be physically deliverable if the currency holder wishes to receive the goods for his currency. Delivery could be made as a basket or containing less commodities, at the choice of the currency issuer. So, if a country is rich in agriculture but poor in mineral resources, it would not be a problem.

Each country's central bank would issue a "Stabilor" that would be equal in theoretical value, but differently "branded", depending on the issuer country.

[mccw]

interesting

so a combination of gold aprietiation and euro devaluation could meet in the middle.

say 20k dollar an oz and euro devapued by a factor of 5.

ofcourse this is just nonsense

but by just for fun lets say what if gold were inflated to 10k or 20k an oz for example and allowed to be included in a countries ballance sheet / used as collaterol for future funding then expansion of debt could continue another couple of decades or could even indefinately so long as gold price were just exponesialy so debt is just repaid with more debt based in the increased asset price. Like a housing buble with no end?

a devaluation of ¤UR by a factor of 17.762 to match 100% backing at today's price of gold, id est ¤1 would buy 2 Baht 20 Satang and it would take ¤14 and 12 c¤nts to buy USD1

taking the fiction further, after all it's weekend and we don't have to follow any markets:

-filling up a car in Germany (70 liters of gasoline 98 octane) would cost ¤ 2,238

-our cook would earn ¤ 4,091 / month

-the old car i bought in may in Thailand would have cost me ¤ 2,049,700

-our home in Thailand would be worth nearly ¤ 12 million

[Naam]

Hind sight is 20-20. Over the years, it has become a tradition to buy my wife a baht of gold for her birthday. Had I bought all those trinkets in bulk years ago, it wouldn't have cost me 25,000 baht this year.

I think I paid 8,000 baht for a one baht trinket the first time I started this stupid tradition.

i remember gold prices of less than THB 4,000 for one Baht weight for several years in the 1980s.

[midas]

^{Metal commodities goes up 10-12 years then down 20 years, in cycles. Gold is going down, maybe not today, or tomorrow. Im talking about longer trends, 10, 20 year cycles. Yes I believe in technicals, TA. I dont care about university mumbo jumbo that says its impossible.}

pssst, not so loud.

but what relevance are 20 year cycles when so many world major economies are mired in debt ?

when in history have we ever been in this situation before?

I mean if this guy wants to talk about trends the only trend I can see is that the debts are just getting bigger

with no light at the end of the tunnel

Edited September 1, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

the only trend I can see is that the debts are just getting bigger with no light at the end of the tunnel

and should there be a light we hope it's not a freight train coming at us on the same rail

[midas]

the only trend I can see is that the debts are just getting bigger with no light at the end of the tunnel

and should there be a light we hope it's not a freight train coming at us on the same rail

In shalla

[binjalin]

^{Metal commodities goes up 10-12 years then down 20 years, in cycles. Gold is going down, maybe not today, or tomorrow. Im talking about longer trends, 10, 20 year cycles. Yes I believe in technicals, TA. I dont care about university mumbo jumbo that says its impossible.}

pssst, not so loud.

but what relevance are 20 year cycles when so many world major economies are mired in debt ?

when in history have we ever been in this situation before?

I mean if this guy wants to talk about trends the only trend I can see is that the debts are just getting bigger

with no light at the end of the tunnel

and we invest in................? a bullet perhaps?

[mccw]

where is gold going in this market?

up

either from being brought in to the monetrey system as collaterol to leverage further expansion of debt

or from people and nations jumping out of failing currencies.

before i left i luckaly picking prity much bottom bullion price when in uk. happy to get some thai wareables this week since so much better deal than blighty. i look at the uk jewlrey retailers selling 9ct or 18ct at ridiculas prices compared to the gold value content and wonder how on earth they get away with it. i mean 2 or 3 times the price is such a rip off. pure ignorance of value on the part of the general public.

[falkan]

nice bump up today on thai gold

Buy: ฿24850

Sell: ฿24950

Last Update: 2012-09-01 09:20

Price Change: +300

[manarak]

nice bump up today on thai gold

Buy: ฿24850

Sell: ฿24950

Last Update: 2012-09-01 09:20

Price Change: +300

not really a surprise after friday's move

[BuffaloRescue]

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

[yoshiwara]

http://www.sanders.s...53-62060dcbb3c3

This would be the Bernie Sanders who supports the Obama Health care Act, opposes free trade, opposes the Bush tax cuts and supports the Democratic Party in general opposition to cuts to social programmes. My guess is that you don't.

[Jayman]

http://www.sanders.s...53-62060dcbb3c3

This would be the Bernie Sanders who supports the Obama Health care Act, opposes free trade, opposes the Bush tax cuts and supports the Democratic Party in general opposition to cuts to social programmes. My guess is that you don't.

You always seem to have a problem seeing the forest through the trees.

[midas]

http://www.sanders.s...53-62060dcbb3c3

This would be the Bernie Sanders who supports the Obama Health care Act, opposes free trade, opposes the Bush tax cuts and supports the Democratic Party in general opposition to cuts to social programmes. My guess is that you don't.

I don't understand people who like to put more emphasis on the messenger than the substance of the message

[Jayman]

http://www.sanders.s...53-62060dcbb3c3

This would be the Bernie Sanders who supports the Obama Health care Act, opposes free trade, opposes the Bush tax cuts and supports the Democratic Party in general opposition to cuts to social programmes. My guess is that you don't.

I don't understand people who like to put more emphasis on the messenger than the substance of the message

Just gives folks an excuse to bury their head in the sand and ignore the whole message.

[Naam]

http://www.sanders.s...53-62060dcbb3c3

This would be the Bernie Sanders who supports the Obama Health care Act, opposes free trade, opposes the Bush tax cuts and supports the Democratic Party in general opposition to cuts to social programmes. My guess is that you don't.

I don't understand people who like to put more emphasis on the messenger than the substance of the message

it is not only prudent but quite normal judging the integrity of a message by the integrity of the messenger.

[midas]

http://www.sanders.s...53-62060dcbb3c3

This would be the Bernie Sanders who supports the Obama Health care Act, opposes free trade, opposes the Bush tax cuts and supports the Democratic Party in general opposition to cuts to social programmes. My guess is that you don't.

I don't understand people who like to put more emphasis on the messenger than the substance of the message

it is not only prudent but quite normal judging the integrity of a message by the integrity of the messenger.

you mean like people did in the case of Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton?

[Naam]

you mean like people did in the case of Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton?

i have no idea what "people" did in the case of Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton. but if one of my dogs tells me it was the neighbour's cat who stole the missing sausage in our kitchen i'd be skeptical and would try to get more detailed information.

in other words... whatever the clowns of World Gold Council have to say with reference to Gold. a banKster telling me "let me handle your investments" a lady in a bar suggesting she would "lubb me long time if i mally her" a politician promising whatever he promises... i'd be very skeptical

[midas]

you mean like people did in the case of Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton?

i have no idea what "people" did in the case of Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton. but if one of my dogs tells me it was the neighbour's cat who stole the missing sausage in our kitchen i'd be skeptical and would try to get more detailed information.

in other words... whatever the clowns of World Gold Council have to say with reference to Gold. a banKster telling me "let me handle your investments" a lady in a bar suggesting she would "lubb me long time if i mally her" a politician promising whatever he promises... i'd be very skeptical

You are making my case for me. This is why I said why concentrate on the messenger?

If something makes economic sense the facts alone should warrant that you are least think further

about what is being said and make your own assessment even based on further research not

simply dismiss it because you don't happen to like

the person or organisation that is presenting the information.

[Naam]

you mean like people did in the case of Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton?

i have no idea what "people" did in the case of Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton. but if one of my dogs tells me it was the neighbour's cat who stole the missing sausage in our kitchen i'd be skeptical and would try to get more detailed information.

in other words... whatever the clowns of World Gold Council have to say with reference to Gold. a banKster telling me "let me handle your investments" a lady in a bar suggesting she would "lubb me long time if i mally her" a politician promising whatever he promises... i'd be very skeptical

You are making my case for me. This is why I said why concentrate on the messenger?

If something makes economic sense the facts alone should warrant that you are least think further

about what is being said and make your own assessment even based on further research not

simply dismiss it because you don't happen to like the person or organisation that is presenting the information.

my view is that the messenger who conveys a message voluntarily -without being ordered to do so- should use due diligence before presenting the message. the internet is full with rubbish information and if rubbish is passed on without checking the "rubbish rubs rubbish" on the messenger.

this thread is loaded with rubbish invented by those with an agenda and presented by messengers who have an agenda, respectively wet dreams. e.g. notwithstanding the fact that Gold is down big compared to other investments since one year the messengers keep on presenting "X bought gold, Y bought gold, Z is buying gold, A says gold will be up big, B recommends buying gold, C claims gold will skyrocket..."

p.s. how does "country x paid off all mortgages" relate to the threads title "where is gold going...?"

[manarak]

notwithstanding the fact that Gold is down big compared to other investments since one year the messengers keep on presenting "X bought gold, Y bought gold, Z is buying gold, A says gold will be up big, B recommends buying gold, C claims gold will skyrocket..."

yep... in the meanwhile I just cashed in my 20k USD profit from friday - that was not too much due to an unfavorable buy price plus the USD losing slightly against CHF in my USDCHF FX hedge.

I will wait a bit before going in again, maybe at around 1670, 1660.