Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[mccw]

Jay man gave the best and only sensible answer- but it still doesn't explain the time delay.

[Naam]

here's something "prickly" for wet dreamers who are not able to use simple arithmetics and obviously don't know what the meaning of "half" is:

Bundesbank Thiele said "target is to have by 2020 half of our Gold stored in domestic locations."

-half of Germany's 3,396 tons = 1,698 tons

-presently stored in Germany 1,036 tons

-no repatriation from UK

-(assumed) repatriation from France 374 tons

1036+374+ = 1,440 tons

balance missing 360 tons to be repatriated from The Greatest Nation on Earth™

repatriation from U.S. 50 tons per year takes 7 years to reach Thiele's target of "half our gold" and that means 2020 not asap, no bla-bla, no yakety-yak! period.

BBC 16 January 2013 Last updated at 12:27 GMT

-The Bundesbank will no longer keep any of its reserves in Paris, as both countries use the euro.

-No gold will be moved out of the Bank of England's vaults, however. It will still keep 13% of its total reserves in London, the German central bank said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-21040214

facit: bubble pricked!

Why do you think they can only bring 50 tons a year ....Does Lufthansa have some kind of cargo limit

The 50 Tons a year was talked about last year and not part of yesterday's announcement ..

'“We’re in negotiations with our partner central banks to develop auditing rights, and that’s been agreed in principle,” said Thiele. “In parallel, we will, over the next three years, transfer 50 tons of gold each year from New York to Frankfurt, which is an additional way to create confidence.”

i was right that you lack the knowledge of basic arithmetics. so, in order to make you happy, i agree with you that "two plus two equals the square root of 9.365".

[Naam]

A sign that the US have basicslly refused to give the gold back

a correct assumption! as i mentioned before it's a conspiracy of the Ferengis who pressure the U.S. not to release any gold to Germany. they have even threatened to kidnap president Obama's daughters and sell them as slaves to the Cardassians.

[churchill]

A new Gold Standard is being born

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100022332/a-new-gold-standard-is-being-born/

[churchill]

[yoshiwara]

A sign that the US have basicslly refused to give the gold back

a correct assumption! as i mentioned before it's a conspiracy of the Ferengis who pressure the U.S. not to release any gold to Germany. they have even threatened to kidnap president Obama's daughters and sell them as slaves to the Cardassians.

Being lazy geezers and just copy and paste artists of the zerobodge and other websites, our friendly golddiggers didn't bother either to ask themselves why the German gold was in the US in the first place.

[jingjoe8]

apparently investing in gold isn't just about trying to make money......its about getting the ladies......

.http://gawker.com/5973941/man-buys-solid-gold-shirt-to-dazzle-the-ladies

Edited January 18, 2013 by jingjoe8

[churchill]

[Naam]

source: Silverman Blows

Gold sell-off provides a good long entry point

As expected the December FOMC meeting had little impact on gold prices, as we have

argued that the gold market is pricing in most of the impact from unconventional easing

when it is initially announced. In this case it was the announcement of QE3 in September,

long before the actual easing occurred. However, since the FOMC meeting, better than

expected US economic data and the fiscal cliff resolution have pushed up real interest rates

which in turn pushed down gold prices far earlier than we had expected given the

uncertainty still associated with the debt ceiling debate and potential budget sequestration.

As a result, we view the recent sell-off as a good entry point to re-establish fresh tactical

longs in the gold market before the run up to the debt ceiling debate, which we view as a

likely catalyst for higher gold prices.

Looking beyond this political standoff, we continue to believe that the gold market can be

characterized as a battle between improving US economic data and further easing through

QE3-driven expansion of the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet. Accordingly, although debt

ceiling issues will likely push gold prices higher in the near term, we still believe prices will

decline after this as better US economic data will likely override the increased easing,

despite any gold ETF and central bank buying the easing may stimulate. As a result, we still

see gold prices peaking in 2013, which is why we continue to back our December

recommendation to hedge long positions by selling $1850/toz April 2013 calls to fund

$1575/toz April 2013 puts.

[midas]

Within 48 hours of the original leak, we have an answer for all three of those questions and the answers should frighten anyone who is long the U.S. Dollar (AMEX:UUP) and hence short gold. The when is 2020 and the how much is, frankly, very little - 300 tons. The answer to who's next is most likely The Netherlands.

The last question I have is, "Why so little?" And that answer is easy. Most of the gold in the Fed's vaults has been rehypothecated and everyone knows it. The problem is like Dave Kransler pointed out the other day that both China and the U.S. have a vested interest in keeping the price of gold down. The U.S. because fiscally it is a basket-case and China because they want to accumulate more of the shiny stuff and they are strip mining their country's reserves faster than they can develop mining projects to dig it up out of the ground.

http://seekingalpha....ny?source=kizur

Edited January 19, 2013 by midas

[Naam]

Most of the gold in the Fed's vaults has been rehypothecated and everyone knows it.

these dàmn Ferengis tricked the Bundesbank!

[Naam]

source JPM

* We took profit on our long position in gold last Friday and year-to-date

gold is down around 1%. We believe many investors had bought gold over the past

few years to hedge against the risk of "QE unlimited." The recent FOMC minutes,

however, have since raised the risk of an early end to QE, reducing to need to

hedge through gold. The risk is thus that a number of market participants will

reduce their gold hedges, pushing gold prices down further. We still like gold

as a hedge against long-term inflation risks once global growth returns to trend

and we would look to reopen the position at around $1,550/oz.

[midas]

source JPM

* We took profit on our long position in gold last Friday and year-to-date

gold is down around 1%. We believe many investors had bought gold over the past

few years to hedge against the risk of "QE unlimited." The recent FOMC minutes,

however, have since raised the risk of an early end to QE, reducing to need to

hedge through gold. The risk is thus that a number of market participants will

reduce their gold hedges, pushing gold prices down further. We still like gold

as a hedge against long-term inflation risks once global growth returns to trend

and we would look to reopen the position at around $1,550/oz.

Oh come on! Listening to anything this crowd say about PM is equivalent to asking Dracula to audit the blood bank!

The industry insider has come forward claiming that JP Morgan’s paper short position is in fact a hedged trade (as Blythe Masters claimed here)- and claims that JPM is in fact MASSIVELY LONG PHYSICAL GOLD AND SILVER HELD IN THEIR OWN PRIVATE VAULTS while short the paper futures market.

Is JP Morgan actually a double agent shorting the paper metals market for their own benefit?

http://www.silverdoctors.com/is-jp-morgan-shorting-paper-metals-while-acquiring-massive-physical-stockpiles-of-gold-silver/

Edited January 19, 2013 by midas

[mccw]

Within 48 hours of the original leak, we have an answer for all three of those questions and the answers should frighten anyone who is long the U.S. Dollar (AMEX:UUP) and hence short gold. The when is 2020 and the how much is, frankly, very little - 300 tons. The answer to who's next is most likely The Netherlands.

The last question I have is, "Why so little?" And that answer is easy. Most of the gold in the Fed's vaults has been rehypothecated and everyone knows it. The problem is like Dave Kransler pointed out the other day that both China and the U.S. have a vested interest in keeping the price of gold down. The U.S. because fiscally it is a basket-case and China because they want to accumulate more of the shiny stuff and they are strip mining their country's reserves faster than they can develop mining projects to dig it up out of the ground.

http://seekingalpha....ny?source=kizur

"As Unprobable as it might sound Captain; It's the only logical explaination" - Dr Spock

(Maybe this kind of comunication will help Naam get it)

[Naam]

Within 48 hours of the original leak, we have an answer for all three of those questions and the answers should frighten anyone who is long the U.S. Dollar (AMEX:UUP) and hence short gold. The when is 2020 and the how much is, frankly, very little - 300 tons. The answer to who's next is most likely The Netherlands.

The last question I have is, "Why so little?" And that answer is easy. Most of the gold in the Fed's vaults has been rehypothecated and everyone knows it. The problem is like Dave Kransler pointed out the other day that both China and the U.S. have a vested interest in keeping the price of gold down. The U.S. because fiscally it is a basket-case and China because they want to accumulate more of the shiny stuff and they are strip mining their country's reserves faster than they can develop mining projects to dig it up out of the ground.

http://seekingalpha....ny?source=kizur

"As Unprobable as it might sound Captain; It's the only logical explaination" - Dr Spock

(Maybe this kind of comunication will help Naam get it)

when will you realise that "seeking omega, null hedge, mish's global rubbish, jesse's soicrossing café, mineweb" and last not least the "world gold council" are publishing shallow, biased and quite often totally misleading information?

p.s. Spock did not hold a doctorate and this is what he reported to Captain Kirk concerning the above-mentioned websites:

[cheeryble]

ALERT

on 18th January 2013 at 11pm, saying he was "happy with gains so far but bored holding a non-productive asset that in the world's greatest ever financial crisis failed to raise a respectable fart" Rt. Hon. Sir Lancelot Cheeryble liquidated all holdings of GLD. At a dinner last week he was heard muttering over a glass of Margaux "Enough already! ......No damned added value, no damned earnings, damned gold don't even keep up wid da damned SET in a country where a damned plug can't even stay in a damned socket!"

Reuters

Edited January 20, 2013 by cheeryble

[Naam]

Rt. Hon. Sir Lancelot Cheeryble, Esq. M.B.E.

[midas]

Within 48 hours of the original leak, we have an answer for all three of those questions and the answers should frighten anyone who is long the U.S. Dollar (AMEX:UUP) and hence short gold. The when is 2020 and the how much is, frankly, very little - 300 tons. The answer to who's next is most likely The Netherlands.

The last question I have is, "Why so little?" And that answer is easy. Most of the gold in the Fed's vaults has been rehypothecated and everyone knows it. The problem is like Dave Kransler pointed out the other day that both China and the U.S. have a vested interest in keeping the price of gold down. The U.S. because fiscally it is a basket-case and China because they want to accumulate more of the shiny stuff and they are strip mining their country's reserves faster than they can develop mining projects to dig it up out of the ground.

http://seekingalpha....ny?source=kizur

"As Unprobable as it might sound Captain; It's the only logical explaination" - Dr Spock

(Maybe this kind of comunication will help Naam get it)

I have absolutely no idea what Naam’s( and Yoshiwara’s ) agendas are? All they do is continuously denigrate these websites and yet never submit anything of their own (other than from his own banksters

). We've had this for four years and by now I've learnt that their comments as far as educational value is as significant as fart.

Maybe it's time for them both to go off to some distant galaxy where they might gain a more attentive audience?

[Naam]

I have absolutely no idea what Naam’s( and Yoshiwara’s ) agendas are? All they do is continuously denigrate these websites and yet never submit anything of their own (other than from his own banksters ). We've had this for four years and by now I've learnt that their comments as far as educational value is as significant as fart.

Maybe it's time for them both to go off to some distant galaxy where they might gain a more attentive audience?

i have no idea what your agenda and the educational values of your postings are. jumping from Bilderberg conspiracy to Islamic precious metal currencies and prices of goats in an Allah-forsaken area of Malaysia to a potential World War III.

for four long years we heard that the apocalyptic riders will be arriving, if not next week, then for sure next month when the masses will rise on a global scale, kill all those who own more than a rice field and the clothes they wear, close all banks but spare those who sit on a mountain of gold.

[midas]

I have absolutely no idea what Naam’s( and Yoshiwara’s ) agendas are? All they do is continuously denigrate these websites and yet never submit anything of their own (other than from his own banksters ). We've had this for four years and by now I've learnt that their comments as far as educational value is as significant as fart.

Maybe it's time for them both to go off to some distant galaxy where they might gain a more attentive audience?

i have no idea what your agenda and the educational values of your postings are. jumping from Bilderberg conspiracy to Islamic precious metal currencies and prices of goats in an Allah-forsaken area of Malaysia to a potential World War III.

for four long years we heard that the apocalyptic riders will be arriving, if not next week, then for sure next month when the masses will rise on a global scale, kill all those who own more than a rice field and the clothes they wear, close all banks but spare those who sit on a mountain of gold.

I have no agenda other than to search for clues and information as to what is going on in the world which even you would have to concede is not well?

But you obviously have some agenda because all your posts for the past four years have only been to denigrate these other websites as if you would know more than they do.

Of course, you are unable to provide a shred of evidence to support your contrarian viewpoint although that depends on which persona you happen to have on any particular day. You said to me a few posts ago. I need professional help. Don't forget I am one of the few people in this thread that has read your posts from the very beginning, 4 years ago. You show clear signs of schizophrenia. One day you are agreeing with me that the banksters are not being prosecuted the way they should be and then the next day you try to contradict information which is being exposed about the fragility of the financial system. You even submit information from JP Morgan (probably one of the most corrupt organisations on the planet) as if to suggest everyone should forget about any question mark hanging over the fractional reserve banking system and just go on believing in paper money?

I can even remember asking you you two or three years ago way back in this thread why do you even bother to keep posting when what you write is so uninformative but you said that you are entitled to do so. Which of course you are. But like I said, is now no more than the same irritation. one gets when a fly is buzzing around.

[Kwasaki]

I have absolutely no idea what Naam’s( and Yoshiwara’s ) agendas are? All they do is continuously denigrate these websites and yet never submit anything of their own (other than from his own banksters ). We've had this for four years and by now I've learnt that their comments as far as educational value is as significant as fart.

Maybe it's time for them both to go off to some distant galaxy where they might gain a more attentive audience?

i have no idea what your agenda and the educational values of your postings are. jumping from Bilderberg conspiracy to Islamic precious metal currencies and prices of goats in an Allah-forsaken area of Malaysia to a potential World War III.

for four long years we heard that the apocalyptic riders will be arriving, if not next week, then for sure next month when the masses will rise on a global scale, kill all those who own more than a rice field and the clothes they wear, close all banks but spare those who sit on a mountain of gold.

I have no agenda other than to search for clues and information as to what is going on in the world which even you would have to concede is not well?

But you obviously have some agenda because all your posts for the past four years have only been to denigrate these other websites as if you would know more than they do.

Of course, you are unable to provide a shred of evidence to support your contrarian viewpoint although that depends on which persona you happen to have on any particular day. You said to me a few posts ago. I need professional help. Don't forget I am one of the few people in this thread that has read your posts from the very beginning, 4 years ago. You show clear signs of schizophrenia. One day you are agreeing with me that the banksters are not being prosecuted the way they should be and then the next day you try to contradict information which is being exposed about the fragility of the financial system. You even submit information from JP Morgan (probably one of the most corrupt organisations on the planet) as if to suggest everyone should forget about any question mark hanging over the fractional reserve banking system and just go on believing in paper money?

I can even remember asking you you two or three years ago way back in this thread why do you even bother to keep posting when what you write is so uninformative but you said that you are entitled to do so. Which of course you are. But like I said, is now no more than the same irritation. one gets when a fly is buzzing around.

Surly to denigrate these websites if a person thinks the information is misleading is something they have the right to do.

I have to disagree with your Psychiatric Diagnosis of other posters, humour is needed everywhere, away from Startrek and onto Joker in Batman " Why so serious " .

[midas]

I have absolutely no idea what Naam’s( and Yoshiwara’s ) agendas are? All they do is continuously denigrate these websites and yet never submit anything of their own (other than from his own banksters ). We've had this for four years and by now I've learnt that their comments as far as educational value is as significant as fart.

Maybe it's time for them both to go off to some distant galaxy where they might gain a more attentive audience?

i have no idea what your agenda and the educational values of your postings are. jumping from Bilderberg conspiracy to Islamic precious metal currencies and prices of goats in an Allah-forsaken area of Malaysia to a potential World War III.

for four long years we heard that the apocalyptic riders will be arriving, if not next week, then for sure next month when the masses will rise on a global scale, kill all those who own more than a rice field and the clothes they wear, close all banks but spare those who sit on a mountain of gold.

I have no agenda other than to search for clues and information as to what is going on in the world which even you would have to concede is not well?

But you obviously have some agenda because all your posts for the past four years have only been to denigrate these other websites as if you would know more than they do.

Of course, you are unable to provide a shred of evidence to support your contrarian viewpoint although that depends on which persona you happen to have on any particular day. You said to me a few posts ago. I need professional help. Don't forget I am one of the few people in this thread that has read your posts from the very beginning, 4 years ago. You show clear signs of schizophrenia. One day you are agreeing with me that the banksters are not being prosecuted the way they should be and then the next day you try to contradict information which is being exposed about the fragility of the financial system. You even submit information from JP Morgan (probably one of the most corrupt organisations on the planet) as if to suggest everyone should forget about any question mark hanging over the fractional reserve banking system and just go on believing in paper money?

I can even remember asking you you two or three years ago way back in this thread why do you even bother to keep posting when what you write is so uninformative but you said that you are entitled to do so. Which of course you are. But like I said, is now no more than the same irritation. one gets when a fly is buzzing around.

Surly to denigrate these websites if a person thinks the information is misleading is something they have the right to do.

I have to disagree with your Psychiatric Diagnosis of other posters, humour is needed everywhere, away from Startrek and onto Joker in Batman " Why so serious " .

sure, he is entitled to do that.

But in four years to not submit a single substantive article or reference to backup why the other material is misleading as you put it (other than his own opinion and flaming other posters and talking endlessly about his own personal affairs) ?

Of course, the fact that he believes other people are in the slightest bit interested in his personal affairs is humorous in itself.

[churchill]

Midas Said ..'I have no agenda other than to search for clues and information as to what is going on in the world which even you would have to concede is not well?'

I agree .... I don't pretend to understand the problems or the solutions , there are too many ifs and buts pulling in opposing directions ..

Perhaps Naam can answer the simple question raised a few posts ago ..'Why do you think they can only bring 50 tons a year ....Does Lufthansa have some kind of cargo limit ' why is Germany not being allowed to audit and retrieve their gold from the US in a timely manner

and some recent ifs and buts ..

http://truthingold.b...many-wants.html

http://www.bloomberg...ncy-war-1-.html

http://soberlook.com...es-above-3.html

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100389570

http://blogs.ft.com/.../#axzz2INgvWZgy

http://www.eurozonen...(Eurozone News)

Edited January 20, 2013 by churchill

[Jayman]

I have recently read that although jpm has huge short positions in the pm market they also have huge physical holdings. They claim the large shorts are a hedge and are not naked. This would explain why they have never been charged with manipulation even though they have been investigated for it many times. If they legit hold huge physical supply then they can legally short on paper against it to arbitrage the difference in price between physical and paper. The massive shorts help to suppress the price further allowing them to buy more physical at the lower prices.

Let's remember that both jpm and hsbc own all their vaults and as such don't have storage fees. This would also allow them too lease or the physical they have to say gld or slv etfs

Edited January 20, 2013 by Jayman

[churchill]

I have recently read that although jpm has huge short positions in the pm market they also have huge physical holdings. They claim the large shorts are a hedge and are not naked. This would explain why they have never been charged with manipulation even though they have been investigated for it many times. If they legit hold huge physical supply then they can legally short on paper against it to arbitrage the difference in price between physical and paper. The massive shorts help to suppress the price further allowing them to buy more physical at the lower prices.

Let's remember that both jpm and hsbc own all their vaults and as such don't have storage fees. This would also allow them too lease or the physical they have to say gld or slv etfs

pressures seem to be building .. but up or down ..

http://www.marketanthropology.com/2013/01/the-insatiables.html

seems far fetched but http://www.silverdoctors.com/is-ted-butlers-silver-panic-imminent-apple-contractor-claims-new-imac-production-delayed-over-silver-shortage/

[Naam]

<snip>

Perhaps Naam can answer the simple question raised a few posts ago ..'Why do you think they can only bring 50 tons a year ....Does Lufthansa have some kind of cargo limit ' why is Germany not being allowed to audit and retrieve their gold from the US in a timely manner

give me one valid reason why i should be able to answer these questions. all questions are irrelevant and without any tangible basis except for spinning the usual conspiracy fairy tales pointing towards

"for sure da gold be da mos' valubel ding in da future dat's why go buy buy buy'n becom ritch to mutch!"

-who says they can only bring 50 tons per year? the quantity and the timeframe is the decision of the Bundesbank and nobody else's business.

-why would Lufthansa be the preferred carrier, respectively why transporting the gold by air and not by sea?

-who said/says Germany is not allowed to audit its gold holdings and who, except the Bundesbank, decides what is a timely manner.

[Naam]

I have recently read that although jpm has huge short positions in the pm market they also have huge physical holdings. They claim the large shorts are a hedge and are not naked. This would explain why they have never been charged with manipulation even though they have been investigated for it many times. If they legit hold huge physical supply then they can legally short on paper against it to arbitrage the difference in price between physical and paper. The massive shorts help to suppress the price further allowing them to buy more physical at the lower prices.

Let's remember that both jpm and hsbc own all their vaults and as such don't have storage fees. This would also allow them too lease or the physical they have to say gld or slv etfs

assuming the facts match the logic is flawless. but the expressions "legit" and legally" do not apply. no law exists that prevents "naked shorts". a huge number of derivatives exist enabling even a "poor" investor to go short or long on gold with amounts starting at 100 USD or EUR.

[churchill]

I said .. 'Why do you think they can only bring 50 tons a year ....Does Lufthansa have some kind of cargo limit

The 50 Tons a year was talked about last year and not part of yesterday's announcement ..'

You then went to a great mathematical calculation to prove otherwise .....

you said ..'repatriation from U.S. 50 tons per year takes 7 years to reach Thiele's target of "half our gold" and that means 2020 not asap, no bla-bla, no yakety-yak! period. '

and then you just said ....

'-who says they can only bring 50 tons per year? the quantity and the timeframe is the decision of the Bundesbank and nobody else's business.'

....

Edited January 20, 2013 by churchill

[Naam]

'-who says they can only bring 50 tons per year? the quantity and the timeframe is the decision of the Bundesbank and nobody else's business.'

That is what I asked some posts ago and you went to a great mathematical calculation to prove otherwise ....

i did not prove otherwise. i proved with simple arithmetic that the planned 50 tons per year match exactly the target the Bundesbank has set for the year 2020. if you don't understand simple and plain English don't resort to ridiculous spins.

[mccw]

The only reason on a person to person, bank to person or bank to bank basis, to not take money (gold in this case) back immediately is because either the other party can not pay / needs time to repay Or the owner party want to earn interest. Is Germany paid interest for its gold? I think actually they pay storage charges the other way.