Buy A New Computer

[h90]

One computer died, so I give mine for my wife and buy a new one for me.

I didn't take care new developments for a while so no idea what is modern what is old.

It should be my office computer, with frequently playing a little bit. 2 LCD screens connected.

I buy at Panthip placa and I screw it together myself.

housing: usually I buy the cheapest approx. 900-1200 Baht in the past

CPU: I bought AMD in the past and was always happy (but read that Intel is now much faster)

I was looking at Athlon Phenom X3 8450 estimate 4900 Baht

Ram: 2 GB but what are the current speeds?

Motherboard: I have bad experience with Asus and Gigabyte so I don't want to give them money.

Which one will also depend on the CPU. Later I want to upgrade office to a 1000 Mbit network, shall I focus on it onboard or not?

Harddisk: no problem on that.....

Graphicard: I have two screens and want to connect one with the bigger connector (digital signal). Till now I had only Geforce, but a few days ago I read that ATI has now much better deals. Which is the chipset I should look at, at 2500-3500 Baht?

A 9400GT with 512 MB ram is 2600 Baht, is that a good choose or hopeless old?

[Guest Reimar]

I'm also an AMD freak.

Just on "upgarding" my computer with following:

Mainboard: MSI DKA 790 GX Platinum THB 5,9K

CPU: AMD AM X2 6000 ( 2 x 3 GHz) THB 3.9K

Memory: OCZ Dualchannel 4 x 2 GB 4.4.4 (CL4) THB app. 5 K per 4 GB

PCI-E: 9800 GT 512 MB THB 5K

All other staff is old but I think I'll change the Case in an short time.

I don't want to use X3 or Quad because that computer is fopr my FS-X and Condor and X-Plane and they didn't support X3 or Quad!

Cheers.

[h90]

I'm also an AMD freak.

Just on "upgarding" my computer with following:

Mainboard: MSI DKA 790 GX Platinum THB 5,9K

CPU: AMD AM X2 6000 ( 2 x 3 GHz) THB 3.9K

Memory: OCZ Dualchannel 4 x 2 GB 4.4.4 (CL4) THB app. 5 K per 4 GB

PCI-E: 9800 GT 512 MB THB 5K

All other staff is old but I think I'll change the Case in an short time.

I don't want to use X3 or Quad because that computer is fopr my FS-X and Condor and X-Plane and they didn't support X3 or Quad!

Cheers.

Just a friend told me that Phenom don't run stable....but not sure if that is true or not.

[Guest Reimar]

After installing the hardware finish and upgraded the driver only in Vista Ultimate, the performance index was jumping from 5.1 to a total of 5.9, the max can get.

So the hardware upgrade worked fine. but within the next few days, I'll reinstall everything again because I've a lot rubbish on this computer already.

Anyway, with an Intel with 2 x 3.2 GHZ CPU's the max index I can get is 5.4 and that with an 9800 GT-X card which cost double than the 9800 GT I use in the AMD computer!

Cheers.

[NHJ]

forget abut AMD, they have years of delay on intel cpus, they get hot quite fast, are not energy savers and perfom less well.

go with the cheapest core 2 duo you can find like the E2140 wich is priced around 2000 bath

for your ram pc6400 will be enough, 2 giz is the minimum recommended for a game machine under XP, 3 giz under vista(vista is not recommanded at all)

newer mainboards do include a gigabit lan onboard like the ASUS P5GC-Mx wich is priced around 2500bath

for the graphic card under your range of price, i would suggest a hd 4670 wich should be priced around 3500 bath if you want a lower price then a 8600GT or 9500GT would be your other choices.

Edited October 27, 2008 by NHJ

[nikster]

I am a Mac snob myself but the Ars system guide is usually pretty good - different budget systems, with editor picks for the hardware.

http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer.ars

[Guest Reimar]

forget abut AMD, they have years of delay on intel cpus, they get hot quite fast, are not energy savers and perfom less well.

go with the cheapest core 2 duo you can find like the E2140 wich is priced around 2000 bath

for your ram pc6400 will be enough, 2 giz is the minimum recommended for a game machine under XP, 3 giz under vista(vista is not recommanded at all)

newer mainboards do include a gigabit lan onboard like the ASUS P5GC-Mx wich is priced around 2500bath

for the graphic card under your range of price, i would suggest a hd 4670 wich should be priced around 3500 bath if you want a lower price then a 8600GT or 9500GT would be your other choices.

Temp AMD 6000 after 15 hour running: 55 C

Temp AMD 5000 running 24/7: 52-54 C

Temp AMD 3800 running 24/7: 48-53 C

Temp Pentium 2 x 3.2 min. 65 C up to 74 C while working on that computer!!

Temp Centrino 2 x 1.66 GHz after 1 hour 69C and switch off while reach8in 72 C very fast!

Asus MB's: fail 4 out of 5 MB's within 1 year

Gigabyte MB's: fail 3 out of 3 within 6 month

MSI MB's: 0 fail out of 12 within 5 years of use

ASROCK MB's: 1 fail out of more than 30 within 4 years

That's just about CPU's and MB's used in my own company while quite havy use!!

But that's just MY experiences with that Brands and I run all of them in NON-aircondition rooms.

Cheers.

[h90]

forget abut AMD, they have years of delay on intel cpus, they get hot quite fast, are not energy savers and perfom less well.

go with the cheapest core 2 duo you can find like the E2140 wich is priced around 2000 bath

for your ram pc6400 will be enough, 2 giz is the minimum recommended for a game machine under XP, 3 giz under vista(vista is not recommanded at all)

newer mainboards do include a gigabit lan onboard like the ASUS P5GC-Mx wich is priced around 2500bath

for the graphic card under your range of price, i would suggest a hd 4670 wich should be priced around 3500 bath if you want a lower price then a 8600GT or 9500GT would be your other choices.

While I agree that Intel is ahead of AMD. In the past you always could get a faster AMD for the same money as they were cheaper. Don't know if that changed or not. I don't want to start a AMD against Intel war as well.....

yes I thought for WinXP and 2 GB (2x1) so I can add later 2 more.

On ATI versus Geforce....I really don't know what to take.

As for Reimar:

Asus MB's: fail 4 out of 5 MB's within 1 year

Gigabyte MB's: fail 3 out of 3 within 6 month

MSI MB's: 0 fail out of 12 within 5 years of use

ASROCK MB's: 1 fail out of more than 30 within 4 years

I had several fails of Asus and Gigabyte. Gigabyte I recall that I had exchanges within the 3 year warranty. What brought me free upgrades....And a lot of work.

Also recall graphic card problems with these two. I recall that Asus was excellent in the past in Europe. Either the lowered their quality or they have a problem with the heat in LOS. So MSI or ASRock would be a good idea.

Any ideas on chipsets to buy or to avoid?

I got told the Pentium E5200 is a very good deal as it can be overclocked from 2.5 to 4 GHz and has than an unbeatable price/value. (not my opinion, I just got that told)

[Guest Reimar]

Running XP on an Dual Core means nothing but a loose of the performance of the 2. CPU! XP really supports only 1 CPU to 10%!

And as it seems that you like some gaming, I would prefer Vista for the get 100% out of the computer.

Don't forget that over clocking cancel the Warranty on CPU's and its possible to check that the CPU was over clocked at the time you maybe need to claim.

Cheers.

[Swanky]

Not on topic but I want to upgrade my laptop. Sorry if there is a thread somewhere on this but couldn't find it. I have a basic Samsung R60 which is OK as I use it mainly for work but want something a bit better as this one is getting a bit old and slow.

Any recommendations please? Or redirect me to the correct thread. Thanks in advance.

[h90]

Running XP on an Dual Core means nothing but a loose of the performance of the 2. CPU! XP really supports only 1 CPU to 10%!

And as it seems that you like some gaming, I would prefer Vista for the get 100% out of the computer.

Don't forget that over clocking cancel the Warranty on CPU's and its possible to check that the CPU was over clocked at the time you maybe need to claim.

Cheers.

Well if the software is made for two CPUs and you have the AMD driver it uses both. I have seen software which just use one core and other software (like compress something or video) which brings both cores to 100 %.

I overclocked every computer on my table since my first 486 DX66 (at 80 Mhz) and never any CPU failed. But I don't max out, I do it with limits.

Usually I overclock only when I play a game in the evening with Aircon. As for working on an Excel the slowest CPU is faster than I can work..

[h90]

Not on topic but I want to upgrade my laptop. Sorry if there is a thread somewhere on this but couldn't find it. I have a basic Samsung R60 which is OK as I use it mainly for work but want something a bit better as this one is getting a bit old and slow.

Any recommendations please? Or redirect me to the correct thread. Thanks in advance.

No real recommendation, but I had 3 HP-Compaq (you could find both HP and Compaq labels on it) Laptops for which it was almost impossible to find the driver. 2 died fast, 1 USB does not work anymore and the service center told me that it is very common and they recommend to not repair it

I have one Acer, which still works like on the first day.

So I won't buy HP-Compaq anymore.

[Swanky]

What's the price range? I don't mind outlaying a bit of cash to get a good one. Was looking at Sony Vaios, nice and all but a bit pricey.

[h90]

What's the price range? I don't mind outlaying a bit of cash to get a good one. Was looking at Sony Vaios, nice and all but a bit pricey.

Don't know...just go in PanThip placa and shop around (if you are in Bangkok).

I don't buy Sony products as they do everything to restrict the users rights. Adding some software protections which cause a lot problems, active try to force governments to change copyright laws. In Germany they sued a lot people who modified PS2.....

So I don't buy products which tries to restrict my rights.

But just my opinion.

[NHJ]

Temp Centrino 2 x 1.66 GHz after 1 hour 69C and switch off while reach8in 72 C very fast!

check the cooling system of your cpu, my core2duo in my laptop never reach past 70 degrees and in my tower never more than 50°.

windows xp is perfectly able to use two cores as xp can assign a particular process to a core or another, not to mention that software who do need dual core are programmed to use both core at once.

vista is just a mess and shouldn't be used.

nowadays amd and intel have opposite situation, you get more performance with intel for a cheaper price than amd.

[Guest Reimar]

Temp Centrino 2 x 1.66 GHz after 1 hour 69C and switch off while reach8in 72 C very fast!

check the cooling system of your cpu, my core2duo in my laptop never reach past 70 degrees and in my tower never more than 50°.

windows xp is perfectly able to use two cores as xp can assign a particular process to a core or another, not to mention that software who do need dual core are programmed to use both core at once.

vista is just a mess and shouldn't be used.

nowadays amd and intel have opposite situation, you get more performance with intel for a cheaper price than amd.

My dear friend the Acer Aspire 4493 I've now for 2 years has only one problem and that's the heat! And maybe you can believe me that I had check all solution incl. to change the Cooling Fan twice and spend several hours in Acer's Headoffice for to clear about the heat. Unfortunate the 449x series is quite hot and if you use that laptop on an soft surface, it switches off before burning.

And once again: I do not use any computer in Aircon rooms!

By the way, maybe you should check the difference in the burning temperature of Intel and AMD CPU's and you may would be a bit surprised.

And maybe you list that programs which has a need of Duo Core CPU's?!

Cheers.

[Guest Reimar]

What's the price range? I don't mind outlaying a bit of cash to get a good one. Was looking at Sony Vaios, nice and all but a bit pricey.

Maybe you go in any of the Acer Service Center and take a brochure from there which incl. the suggested Retail Prices as well. You find the Acer Service Center in nearly all IT Malls.

[h90]

Temp Centrino 2 x 1.66 GHz after 1 hour 69C and switch off while reach8in 72 C very fast!

check the cooling system of your cpu, my core2duo in my laptop never reach past 70 degrees and in my tower never more than 50°.

windows xp is perfectly able to use two cores as xp can assign a particular process to a core or another, not to mention that software who do need dual core are programmed to use both core at once.

vista is just a mess and shouldn't be used.

nowadays amd and intel have opposite situation, you get more performance with intel for a cheaper price than amd.

which would you recommend in the medium field, say 2500-4000 Baht?

[NHJ]

which would you recommend in the medium field, say 2500-4000 Baht?

any core2 duo from the E2140(2500 bath wich is only 1.66ghz) to the 5200 (4000 bath 2.5 ghz), the choice of the CPU has to be done regarding the use of your machine if you encode video for your psp, ipod or anything else, those programs do use both cores and will get advantage of a higher cpu, regarding your gaming experience, the higher resolution is used, the less dependent is your cpu, link here so you can see by yourself ( http://www.tt-hardware.com/modules.php?nam...le&sid=9875 )

regarding the cpu, here's a comparaison table ( http://www.matbe.com/articles/lire/821/int...auvre/page5.php ), the text is in french but the grids are speaking by themselves, the core2duo do even beat the X4 phenom in some conditions, please browse the following pages as tests are done with different programs for each cpu.

[NHJ]

And maybe you list that programs which has a need of Duo Core CPU's?!

Cheers.

all modern video encoders do use both cores, winnydows(best program to encode videos for your mobile devices), dvd rebuilder with CCE encoding.

in fact all nowadays program who do require high computation are build to use two cores or more.

if you use ffdshow to upscale the videos and add some filter to enhance the quality of the videos, you'll notice the use of both cores in your task manager.

this is of course multimedia, but when it comes to archiver, winrar is also using both cores.

firefox is also optimized to take advantage of dual core cpus.

i don't have a complete list as i'm not a maniac of checking what is used by wich program, but i'm sure if you have a look at the programs you use everyday you may find some who do use two cores(and more).

[NHJ]

Temp Centrino 2 x 1.66 GHz after 1 hour 69C and switch off while reach8in 72 C very fast!

you didn't say it was a mobile CPU, in that case, the trigger is at 100° not 72, your bios must be faultly as 72° isn't hot for a mobile cpu, in the past i used some monitoring temperature program who had an alarm set at 72° and wich were closing down the computer automatically, maybe is it a part of your trouble but not only this, being a mobile cpu in a laptop, your bios is normally made to use the advantage of speedstep to reduce the frequency of the cpu before chutting down the laptop.

in the energy property of windows(if you use windows) you should set your laptop as "laptop" , if you choose "always active" then the speedstep is disabled.

if i use my laptop out of a air-con room, the cpu goes until 98°c with 100% use without any trouble, temperatures checked with realtemp and coretemp and the laptop is going from 967mhz to 1.83 to prevent a burning.

[h90]

which would you recommend in the medium field, say 2500-4000 Baht?

any core2 duo from the E2140(2500 bath wich is only 1.66ghz) to the 5200 (4000 bath 2.5 ghz), the choice of the CPU has to be done regarding the use of your machine if you encode video for your psp, ipod or anything else, those programs do use both cores and will get advantage of a higher cpu, regarding your gaming experience, the higher resolution is used, the less dependent is your cpu, link here so you can see by yourself ( http://www.tt-hardware.com/modules.php?nam...le&sid=9875 )

regarding the cpu, here's a comparaison table ( http://www.matbe.com/articles/lire/821/int...auvre/page5.php ), the text is in french but the grids are speaking by themselves, the core2duo do even beat the X4 phenom in some conditions, please browse the following pages as tests are done with different programs for each cpu.

Looks like the Intels are there a lot better. Even if you take in account that AMD is cheaper you get more from Intel.....

[dave_boo]

After installing the hardware finish and upgraded the driver only in Vista Ultimate, the performance index was jumping from 5.1 to a total of 5.9, the max can get.

So the hardware upgrade worked fine. but within the next few days, I'll reinstall everything again because I've a lot rubbish on this computer already.

Anyway, with an Intel with 2 x 3.2 GHZ CPU's the max index I can get is 5.4 and that with an 9800 GT-X card which cost double than the 9800 GT I use in the AMD computer!

Cheers.

Most likely it was your video upgrade. Do you still have the breakdown of the number? For instance, everything in my laptop is really high with the exception of the Aero Experience number. That dropped my overall score down by some 0.7 points! Remember the overall score is only as high as your lowest number.

And NHJ; yes most of the transcoding that's modern is dual core capable. However, until people stop using Divx (which IIRC is still single threaded on any version up to ~6.8) it's a concern. x.264 beats other encoders hands down though. Under Linux even Grip (a cd to mp3/aac/ogg/etc..) is multithreaded. It's so efficient that the last time I ripped a cd it actually had to wait on the drive rather than conversion finishing after the drive was done copying the audio.

[Guest Reimar]

Temp Centrino 2 x 1.66 GHz after 1 hour 69C and switch off while reach8in 72 C very fast!

you didn't say it was a mobile CPU, in that case, the trigger is at 100° not 72, your bios must be faultly as 72° isn't hot for a mobile cpu, in the past i used some monitoring temperature program who had an alarm set at 72° and wich were closing down the computer automatically, maybe is it a part of your trouble but not only this, being a mobile cpu in a laptop, your bios is normally made to use the advantage of speedstep to reduce the frequency of the cpu before chutting down the laptop.

in the energy property of windows(if you use windows) you should set your laptop as "laptop" , if you choose "always active" then the speedstep is disabled.

if i use my laptop out of a air-con room, the cpu goes until 98°c with 100% use without any trouble, temperatures checked with realtemp and coretemp and the laptop is going from 967mhz to 1.83 to prevent a burning.

My dear friend, as a very knowledgeable computer guy you had should known that a Centrino is a mobile CPU.

Second, if you mention a CPU to other's maybe you should also mention that the E5200 has just 2 MB L2 Cache, same as the AMD 6000 and that the cost is just THB 3,000.

And by the way, there is nothing faulty with my laptop and the temperature at 70 + C is as normal as it should. Same things happens at the moment the Laptop switches off to prevent burning and I really appreciate that because it saves me some money.

If a CPU goes to 100 C you wouldn't hold the laptop in your hand! The case temperature is about 65 C at the moment the comp switch off, measured with external thermometer. And that is already difficult to hold in hands! But the CPU temperature is at that time 80-82 C, measured with Everest. While the burn-in temperature of the C2D 1.66 is 83 C!

Maybe you need to check the real specification.

But go ahead and overclock your Laptop if you think that's a way because if the temps are true you posted, you had problems with your Laptop or you had over clocked the laptop.

Cheers.

[Guest Reimar]

Most likely it was your video upgrade. Do you still have the breakdown of the number? For instance, everything in my laptop is really high with the exception of the Aero Experience number. That dropped my overall score down by some 0.7 points! Remember the overall score is only as high as your lowest number.

No it wasn't the video upgrade, that was before 5.6 and the card I was using before was an 8500 GT Xtreme.

It was the Seagate HDD I was using, now is out and changed to an Hitachi instead and the index was jumping from 5.1 to 5.9! Both HDD were SATA2 7200 rpm 320 GB!

Cheers.

[NHJ]

My dear friend, as a very knowledgeable computer guy you had should known that a Centrino is a mobile CPU.

Second, if you mention a CPU to other's maybe you should also mention that the E5200 has just 2 MB L2 Cache, same as the AMD 6000 and that the cost is just THB 3,000.

Maybe you need to check the real specification.

But go ahead and overclock your Laptop if you think that's a way because if the temps are true you posted, you had problems with your Laptop or you had over clocked the laptop.

Cheers.

hi reimar,

a centrino is not a CPU but a mobile plateforme wich is true contains everything from intel, chipset, cpu and wireless it does of course include a mobile processor wich didn't come to my eyes at the first reading as i was more interested into the temperature of shutting down, centrino can be a pentium-M aswell as core solo or duo.

i'm not a fan of whatever maker, i'm giving advice to the original poster and i give links also so he can be able to have a look by himself and check the informations, something you didn't do until now.

comparing a cpu only with the size of its cache is meaningless, the biggest difference isn't the cache, but the internal architecture.

regarding the laptop issue, take a look at this technical sheet : http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9U7 , it's regarding the maximum temperature of one of the core 2 duo(the one actually mounted in my laptop) you may notice that the maximum temperature is 100°c , the latest mobile cpu is even rated at 105°C ( http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB43 ).

you may know this is the in die temperature as the sensor is built inside, 100°c has nothing surprising, GPU can get a maximum temperature of 120-130°, the rad has already evacuated a lot of the heat and plastic is also a temperature isolator thus you can still hold your laptop in hand

i never talked about overclocking my laptop so you're making quick conclusion, this forum is about exchange of informations, this is what i'm doing here with you even if it's out of subject and you seem to be on the defensive for unknown reason.

Edited October 28, 2008 by NHJ

[Guest Reimar]

My dear friend, as a very knowledgeable computer guy you had should known that a Centrino is a mobile CPU.

Second, if you mention a CPU to other's maybe you should also mention that the E5200 has just 2 MB L2 Cache, same as the AMD 6000 and that the cost is just THB 3,000.

Maybe you need to check the real specification.

But go ahead and overclock your Laptop if you think that's a way because if the temps are true you posted, you had problems with your Laptop or you had over clocked the laptop.

Cheers.

hi reimar,

a centrino is not a CPU but a mobile plateforme wich is true contains everything from intel, chipset, cpu and wireless it does of course include a mobile processor wich didn't come to my eyes at the first reading as i was more interested into the temperature of shutting down, centrino can be a pentium-M aswell as core solo or duo.

i'm not a fan of whatever maker, i'm giving advice to the original poster and i give links also so he can be able to have a look by himself and check the informations, something you didn't do until now.

comparing a cpu only with the size of its cache is meaningless, the biggest difference isn't the cache, but the internal architecture.

regarding the laptop issue, take a look at this technical sheet : http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9U7 , it's regarding the maximum temperature of one of the core 2 duo(the one actually mounted in my laptop) you may notice that the maximum temperature is 100°c , the latest mobile cpu is even rated at 105°C ( http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB43 ).

you may know this is the in die temperature as the sensor is built inside, 100°c has nothing surprising, GPU can get a maximum temperature of 120-130°, the rad has already evacuated a lot of the heat and plastic is also a temperature isolator thus you can still hold your laptop in hand

i never talked about overclocking my laptop so you're making quick conclusion, this forum is about exchange of informations, this is what i'm doing here with you even if it's out of subject and you seem to be on the defensive for unknown reason.

You really like to go to the point but forget the facts I was posting about the temperature of the CPU I using, or that the E5200 is a low grade CPU from Intel pp.

I'm a practicle guy and not an theoretic one and like to check I can easy hold an 70 C hot case for a longer time or something like that. Keep your 100-120 C in Hand if you like.

The infos I get from an attached Thermometer tell me more than everything what's printed and I even can feel what that thermometer shows me.

Thanks for nice advice which i maybe true in some but wrong in other parts and cheers.

[dave_boo]

Most likely it was your video upgrade. Do you still have the breakdown of the number? For instance, everything in my laptop is really high with the exception of the Aero Experience number. That dropped my overall score down by some 0.7 points! Remember the overall score is only as high as your lowest number.

No it wasn't the video upgrade, that was before 5.6 and the card I was using before was an 8500 GT Xtreme.

It was the Seagate HDD I was using, now is out and changed to an Hitachi instead and the index was jumping from 5.1 to 5.9! Both HDD were SATA2 7200 rpm 320 GB!

Cheers.

Oh, ok. Did the Seagate have 3 or more platters? Because fewer platters=higher areal density (for the same capacity) and thus better performance.