Complaining About The British Embassy?

[morphic]

My GF was also refused a viitors visa. Suffice it to say we thought we provided everything. I have a good job, she owns a house and land. Their refusal reasons just didn't hold water. So in the absence of right to appeal and as the embassy appears happy to refuse a person for no logical reason or to overturn obvioulsy indefenible reasoning, is there no way of complianing to whatever body the via section is accountable to?

I am sick of this. England seems to be a free for all to all kinds of nationalities, but when I as a UK citizen and tax payer try to get a via for my GF to go on holiday, with me as sponor, we are treated like dirt.

[the scouser]

Morphic,

The legal standard applied to any application is that of the balance of probabilities. In order to establish whether this has been correctly done it is necessary to obtain a copy of the interview record and the reasons why the visa officer came to his conclusion. You can then determine if the decision was reasonable.

If you believe that it wasn't then you can make representations through your MP to UK Visas which is the body that governs visa sections in UK embassies/high commissions. Alternatively you can seek legal advice but this is where it can be a bit pricey. Although no right of appeal exists in your g/f's situation, any decision taken by a visa officer is open to challenge in the High Court. This is called a judicial review and it detemines whether the visa officer in refusing your g/f's application acted in an ultra vires way (outside of his powers); i.e. was the balance of probabilities standard properly applied?

Cheers,

Scouse.

[khunlungphudhu]

My GF was also refused a viitors visa. Suffice it to say we thought we provided everything. I have a good job, she owns a house and land. Their refusal reasons just didn't hold water. So in the absence of right to appeal and as the embassy appears happy to refuse a person for no logical reason or to overturn obvioulsy indefenible reasoning, is there no way of complianing to whatever body the via section is accountable to?

I am sick of this. England seems to be a free for all to all kinds of nationalities, but when I as a UK citizen and tax payer try to get a via for my GF to go on holiday, with me as sponor, we are treated like dirt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome to the club, morphic, it took me two years and several hearings at the High court in London to appeal a decision against my wife joining me.

It is possible to appeal, but it takes a lot of time and determination.

Instructions on appealing a decision should be on the notice of refusal, hidden in the small print. Be sure to make the appeal carefully, as one slip will result in the papers being sent to the wrong office. There is also an organization based in London that will help and advise you on these matters, if you wish I will try to dig out the details, now well buried in my files.

Regards, Peter.

[khunlungphudhu]

Sorry about the above, Scouse was qicker on the draw than I, and obviously more knowledgeable, anyway, the people that helped me were;

Immigration Advisory Service, Second Floor; County House,190, Great Dover Street; London SE1 4YB

A registered charity, could be worth talking to them.

Peter.

[maniac]

It`s too bad you all have to go through soo much red tape.For if you were Canadian,It would be No problem.I wonder is this just lately or retaliation on the Thai cop murder?I really don`t know.Sounds to me like racism.Basterds!!!

[khunlungphudhu]

It`s too bad you all have to go through soo much red tape.For if you were Canadian,It would be No problem.I wonder is this just lately or retaliation on the Thai cop murder?I really don`t know.Sounds to me like racism.Basterds!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ECOs behaving badly, more like! They appear, at times, to be of the opinion that the UK is the honeypot and it is their task in life to guard it. That assumes that every Tom Dick and Somjit wants to come here to improve their lot!

They should talk to me and a few others I know to reach true enlightenment!

[the scouser]

I think when/if I ever wanted to move back to England, I would still have a lot of problems in trying to get my wife to stay in the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As you are resident in Greece, an EU country, different rules would apply to your wife should you wish to take her to the UK whether on holiday or permanently.

The various EU treaties allow nationals of the member states to freely work in any other member state and this right extends as far as being permitted to take family members even if they are not a national of an EU country. Visa officers are not allowed to delay the issue of permit in such cases without extremely good cause as to do so would inhibit the EU national spouse from exercising his rights.

Now, at this stage you may be wondering what this has got to do with you, a British citizen, taking your wife to Britain? Well, a few years back (about 10 years?) a test case (Singh) in the UK held that a British citizen who is exercising his treaty rights (in this case working) in another EU country is, for immigration purposes, to be accepted as being an EU national. What this means in practice is that should you wish to travel to the UK with your wife she should apply for a family permit at the embassy in Athens which is issued without interview and is free. All you need to do is complete the relevant application form, show your passport, evidence of your Greek residency, your marriage certificate, and proof of your ability to support yourself in the UK without claiming benefits. They may even do it by post. Bingo! A no-hassles permit for which you don't even have to pay.

This little wheeze also applies to any Brits living in the UK who also happen to be dual nationals of another EU country and who want to bring over their Thai wives to Britain. They just present themselves as being that other nationality rather than British.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[udon]

Hi Scouse,

reading your well informed posts, I get the feeling that you might be the British Ambassador.... True?

[bartender100]

Of course,you could ask David Blunkett to help you,he quick i hear.

[morphic]

Morphic,

The legal standard applied to any application is that of the balance of probabilities. In order to establish whether this has been correctly done it is necessary to obtain a copy of the interview record and the reasons why the visa officer came to his conclusion. You can then determine if the decision was reasonable.

If you believe that it wasn't then you can make representations through your MP to UK Visas which is the body that governs visa sections in UK embassies/high commissions. Alternatively you can seek legal advice but this is where it can be a bit pricey. Although no right of appeal exists in your g/f's situation, any decision taken by a visa officer is open to challenge in the High Court. This is called a judicial review and it detemines whether the visa officer in refusing your g/f's application acted in an ultra vires way (outside of his powers); i.e. was the balance of probabilities standard properly applied?

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[morphic]

Scouse

Thanks for your reply. Also, thanks to others who replied. I have obtained a copy of the refusal letter from my g/f and have sent the ECM at the embassy several emails expressing my objection to what seems to be an arbitrary and illogical interpretation of a small subset of the information we presented. But, I have had no reply whatsoever. I suppose I now need to obtain the so called 'interview record', assuming this is different to the refusal letter. But if the embassy simply refuses to reply to emails or voicemail or letters then this may be very difficult. We do of course also have the option of re-applying, but if it is in the nature of the embassy to be unreasonable, and each time to potentially focus on the same subset of information we provide, I feel this course of action would be a wate of time and money, as well as upsetting to my g/f, who found the previous refusal highly unpleasant.

I wonder if a number of 'rejected' applicants, all of whom believe the embassy to be racist and unreasonable in the way they deal with application in Thailand, could submit a collective complaint?

[et33.com]

forget UK

the brits who never stayed long enough in other countries

are snobish and arrogant

carrying their ###### on the shining bald heads

sell all you have in UK and settle down in thailand

your standard of living immediately goes up ten times...

[the scouser]

Hi Scouse,

reading your well informed posts, I get the feeling that you might be the British Ambassador.... True?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you a Lawyer?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lets say a gamekeeper turned poacher.

Thanks for your reply. Also, thanks to others who replied. I have obtained a copy of the refusal letter from my g/f and have sent the ECM at the embassy several emails expressing my objection to what seems to be an arbitrary and illogical interpretation of a small subset of the information we presented. But, I have had no reply whatsoever. I suppose I now need to obtain the so called 'interview record', assuming this is different to the refusal letter. But if the embassy simply refuses to reply to emails or voicemail or letters then this may be very difficult. We do of course also have the option of re-applying, but if it is in the nature of the embassy to be unreasonable, and each time to potentially focus on the same subset of information we provide,  I feel this course of action would be a wate of time and money, as well as upsetting to my g/f, who found the previous refusal highly unpleasant.

I wonder if a number of 'rejected' applicants, all of whom believe the embassy to be racist and unreasonable in the way they deal with application in Thailand, could submit a collective complaint?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The visa section has to disclose the information. If you get no joy through the embassy then go through UK visas. I would recommend sending a fax requesting the interview notes and also the reasoning behing the visa officer's decision. The refusal notice just gives general grounds for the decision, for example, "I can't be satisfied that you will return to Thailand at the completion of your stay." You need to find out what made the visa officer think that.

Scouse.

[cojones]

My GF was also refused a viitors visa. Suffice it to say we thought we provided everything. I have a good job, she owns a house and land. Their refusal reasons just didn't hold water. So in the absence of right to appeal and as the embassy appears happy to refuse a person for no logical reason or to overturn obvioulsy indefenible reasoning, is there no way of complianing to whatever body the via section is accountable to?

I am sick of this. England seems to be a free for all to all kinds of nationalities, but when I as a UK citizen and tax payer try to get a via for my GF to go on holiday, with me as sponor, we are treated like dirt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

**********************************

sorry to hear about your refusal , but its nothing new , 1000s of good aplicants before you have been refused for downright no good reason .

The embasy is a law unto themselves , and complaints have been voiced for decades about whats going on there. You could write to the Foreign Office ,asian dept , but you wont get any joy there .

Muslim terrorists and all the scum of the world get preference unfortunately .

Look what occured with Blunkets mistresses filipino nanny !

PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT !

**************************

this will piss you off ! mention it to the ambassador !

***************************************************

One celebrated case concerned an OAP in his 70s ,one Brian

Clegg a retired British Gas area manager who sought a visa for his

thai wife of 18 years . Despite the age gap of 56 years and that they

could not communicate in any common language the embassy awarded them

a visa !. They had met thru a BKK dating agency and had spent a few

days in the hotel bed getting to know each other. This was recorded on

the film for release on the BBC documentary which was shown

nationwide. Upon arrival at his flat in Poole Dorset they soon fell

out of wedlock ,she refused his sexual demands and wouldnt do any

household chores, and 2 weeks later she cleared off and found a job in a

thai restaurant somewhere in Sussex. He was later seen on the Kilroy

show on a programme about mail order brides which had a selection of

elderly gents with their thai brides ,some were ok some were failures.

so you see applicants who should never get a visa get one, and those

who should get one , dont. thats the general rule. hence the

strong suspicions of bribery and corruption and general malpractice

If you took a bunch of apes and replaced the embassy staff with the

apes you would get the same result , and the british civil service

would save a bundle on wages and pensions.

***************************************

[cojones]

How love in a cold climate can fail to flourish

>>>

>>>

>>> Runaway Thai bride cost 'conned' husband £40,000

>>>

>>> MUTUAL disillusion has destroyed several hopeful ventures into

>>> matrimony by English bridegrooms and Thai brides.

>>>

>>> Notorious for its brevity was the marriage between Brian Clegg, a

>>> former chairman of Northern Gas, and Joom, as he called his wife,

>>> Banjit Sawaeng-dee.

>>>

>>> They married in the heat of Thailand in the summer of 1997 when Mr

>>> Clegg was 76 and his wife was 18. Six days after she arrived that

>>> winter to live with him in Poole, Dorset, the marriage collapsed. The

>>> bride claimed that Mr Clegg never consulted her about anything, wanted

>>> to show her off to the media for money, had been very keen to show her

>>> the vacuum cleaner and had bought her noodles when she asked for rice.

>>>

>>>

>>> She had locked herself in her room to avoid his demands for sex, she

>>> said - one of the few points on which their accounts agreed. Mr Clegg

>>> said that his wife had demanded thousands of pounds to help her family

>>> in Thailand and added: "If she won't sleep with me and help me make

>>> money out of this, she can go home."

>>>

>>> The poverty of life in Thailand is a major factor in persuading young

>>> women to contract marriages with foreigners and strangers. Agencies

>>> specialising in Thai brides charge about £3,000, which includes fees,

>>> accommodation and air fares. They show men a video of "possibles",

>>> then invite the hopeful bridegrooms to fly to Thailand to meet their

>>> choice. The marriage is conducted in Thailand and the bridegroom then

>>> has the job of persuading immigration authorities that his bride is

>>> not just an economic migrant.

>>>

>>> On arrival in Britain, events can take an unexpected turn. Three years

>>> ago Patcharee Khunyota, then 32, travelled to Middlesbrough to live

>>> with Ray Usher after marrying him in Thailand. But she found that Mr

>>> Usher had still been married at the time of their Buddhist wedding. He

>>> was ordered to do 180 hours' community service for bigamy and pay

>>> £1,000 to fly Miss Khunyota home.

>>>

>>>

[the scouser]

My GF was also refused a viitors visa. Suffice it to say we thought we provided everything. I have a good job, she owns a house and land. Their refusal reasons just didn't hold water. So in the absence of right to appeal and as the embassy appears happy to refuse a person for no logical reason or to overturn obvioulsy indefenible reasoning, is there no way of complianing to whatever body the via section is accountable to?

I am sick of this. England seems to be a free for all to all kinds of nationalities, but when I as a UK citizen and tax payer try to get a via for my GF to go on holiday, with me as sponor, we are treated like dirt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

**********************************

sorry to hear about your refusal , but its nothing new , 1000s of good aplicants before you have been refused for downright no good reason .

The embasy is a law unto themselves , and complaints have been voiced for decades about whats going on there. You could write to the Foreign Office ,asian dept , but you wont get any joy there .

Muslim terrorists and all the scum of the world get preference unfortunately .

Look what occured with Blunkets mistresses filipino nanny !

PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT !

**************************

this will piss you off ! mention it to the ambassador !

***************************************************

One celebrated case concerned an OAP in his 70s ,one Brian

Clegg a retired British Gas area manager who sought a visa for his

thai wife of 18 years . Despite the age gap of 56 years and that they

could not communicate in any common language the embassy awarded them

a visa !. They had met thru a BKK dating agency and had spent a few

days in the hotel bed getting to know each other. This was recorded on

the film for release on the BBC documentary which was shown

nationwide. Upon arrival at his flat in Poole Dorset they soon fell

out of wedlock ,she refused his sexual demands and wouldnt do any

household chores, and 2 weeks later she cleared off and found a job in a

thai restaurant somewhere in Sussex. He was later seen on the Kilroy

show on a programme about mail order brides which had a selection of

elderly gents with their thai brides ,some were ok some were failures.

so you see applicants who should never get a visa get one, and those

who should get one , dont. thats the general rule. hence the

strong suspicions of bribery and corruption and general malpractice

If you took a bunch of apes and replaced the embassy staff with the

apes you would get the same result , and the british civil service

would save a bundle on wages and pensions.

***************************************

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Utter hogwash! Ill-conceived and full of unsubstantiated generalisations.

The visa officers' decisions are bound by the immigration rules and, as already posted, any is open to legal challenge. Consequently a visa officer cannot refuse an application purely on a whim. Each application is treated on its individual merits and each is different. No one person's circumstances are identical. It is therefore way off mark to make such a sweeping statement as applicants who don't deserve a visa get it and the genuine ones don't. That's how it may appear to an ill-informed observer but is far from the reality.

Yes, bad decisions are made. However, each refusal has to be reviewed by the Entry Clearance Manager. If he/she feels that one can't be substantiated then the decision will be overturned and the visa issued. Still some erroneous judgments are made and that is why the wronged applicant can then make representations to UK Visas. Yes, still some bad ones get through but that is why there exists a system of legal redress through the courts.

As for the allegations of bribery and corruption, do you have any proof? It's a serious accusation that deserves to be reported to the police. I've known it to occur and know of 2 visa officers to have been imprisoned but the checks and balances that are in place make it all but impossible other than as a one off and, lets face it, it's just not worth while for a measly few hundred quid. Furthermore, the staff are rotated which makes it even more difficult for an officer to behave corruptly over a prolonged period.

Scouse.

[cojones]

Have you tried the Irish Embassy and then enter UK via the "back door"!

[cojones]

The visa officers' decisions are bound by the immigration rules and, as already posted, any is open to legal challenge.

*********************************************

>>yes and they can give you the runaround for donkeys years ! until the applicant gets fedup as what normally happens .

As for the allegations of bribery and corruption, do you have any proof? It's a serious accusation that deserves to be reported to the police. I've known it to occur and know of 2 visa officers to have been imprisoned but the checks and balances that are in place make it all but impossible other than as a one off and, lets face it, it's just not worth while for a measly few hundred quid. Furthermore, the staff are rotated which makes it even more difficult for an officer to behave corruptly over a prolonged period.

*********************************************************

>>>well there was documentary on UK TV some years ago about sex slave trafficking to the UK . Undercover reporters with secret cameras filmed in BKK to traffik some young thai girls to the UK for work as hookers . They discussed prices for the girls and how to get them to the UK pointing out how difficult it is to get visas !

The mafia gents declared on camera "dont worry we have someone inside the embassy to arrange everything "

Then there is the marriage bureaus in BKK ,that 100% GUARANTEE that your mail order bride will get a visa to the UK .

i wonder how they do it ?

[the scouser]

>>yes and they can give you the runaround for donkeys years ! until the applicant gets fedup as what normally happens .

*********************************************************

>>>well there was documentary on UK TV some years ago about sex slave trafficking to the UK . Undercover reporters with secret cameras filmed in BKK to traffik some young thai girls to the UK for work as hookers . They discussed prices for the girls and how to get them to the UK pointing out how difficult it is to get visas !

The mafia gents declared on camera "dont worry we have someone inside the embassy to arrange everything "

Then there is the marriage bureaus in BKK ,that 100% GUARANTEE that your mail order bride will get a visa to the UK .

i wonder how they do it ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Granted the legal process can take some time depending upon the relative strengths and weaknesses of the particular case.

I wouldn't necessarily accept the word of a mafia chappie as being gospel. I recall the programme but don't recall any visa section staff being prosecuted as a result of any statements contained therein. A criminal's statement does not necessarily constitute fact.

The marriage bureaux that offer 100 per cent guarantee I take with a big pinch of salt. They work on the assumption that 90 per cent are going to qualify for the visa anyway. The other 10 are just told, "Sorry nothing we can do. Here's your money back". More of a no win no fee agreement. As you'll be aware there doesn't appear to be any sort of legislation in Thailand preventing inflated advertising claims. In the UK where there is such legislation I have not seen any adviser who assists in visa applications make such a claim.

Anyway, I acknowledge that a degree of corruption will always exist but it is minimal and not endemic as you portrayed in your original post.

Scouse.