Million Jobs Are At Risk In Thailand

[bonna7]

My friend was over here last week on holiday. He operates a travel company in the UK that at its peak sent 12,000 people a year here - EVERY year.

He said that the High Rollers were all still booking for next year, but the average-Joe holidaymakers (those trying to get here for 14 days for around 1,000 Stg per person) have all dried up.

He is amazed at the lack of foresight by the Thai hoteliers who just think the problem will not rear its ugly head here.

Watch this space...

Erm, no doubt that tourist arrivals are down overall, but tourist numbers from Britain is actually increasing this year.... More Brits than ever will visit Thailand this year and this high season than before... The same goes for the Scandinavian tourists, record numbers AGAIN this year.

No doubt things are not good, but there's no need to exaggerate, is there?

[Thai at Heart]

My friend was over here last week on holiday. He operates a travel company in the UK that at its peak sent 12,000 people a year here - EVERY year.

He said that the High Rollers were all still booking for next year, but the average-Joe holidaymakers (those trying to get here for 14 days for around 1,000 Stg per person) have all dried up.

He is amazed at the lack of foresight by the Thai hoteliers who just think the problem will not rear its ugly head here.

Watch this space...

Erm, no doubt that tourist arrivals are down overall, but tourist numbers from Britain is actually increasing this year.... More Brits than ever will visit Thailand this year and this high season than before... The same goes for the Scandinavian tourists, record numbers AGAIN this year.

No doubt things are not good, but there's no need to exaggerate, is there?

Lets see the Xmas numbers. Maybe everything is booked and paid for and they will still travel. I am not so sure.

[Gravelrash]

So if more and more people in Thailand are saying this, would anyone like to

guess at what point they will be forced to revise their current monetary policy

on keeping the baht so strong ?

Perhaps you should be asking rather why is the baht being kept so high, in whose interest is it to be so? After all it is only good for transferring funds out of Thailand.

It always comes down to "who benefits?". Like Bushes "War on Terror", read that more Americans die each year from peanut allergies than die from terrorism, why isn't there then a "War on Peanuts" as well. Who benefits from US wars?

Even the insurgency in the south, why does it fester. Again who benefits from it continuing?

[dumball]

It is also terrible for us living here, getting some money from abroad I will get 10% less this month, than the last, and 15% less than 2 months ago... Getting less baht for your foreign currency is not gonna help people investing money in the country dammit.

I think the Thai goverment has the same mentality as the development (houses) builders in Thailand. Oh - "So no tourist are buying our houses? Well, now it has been for sale a long time, and we used money advertising it... Let's raise the price! That will help..." (And that IS the case, at least here in Hua Hin...)

Are we ever going to see an end to this giant mess? Oh - Btw, THANK YOU AMERICA for putting us all in this giant shithole... I hope China will take your place as world power... We can't do any worse - Unless ofcourse, Obama is elected and your country will finally get some fair (and normal) agenda on the line... Gosh...

Oh p-a-lease , you carry on like some introverted , dislectic incompetant twit , you are or should be responsible for your OWN LIFE and what happens to or in it . America put nobody anywhere , you want to be a sheeple ? You now are achieving the end result of your own decisions . You want China to take over ? I imagine your head is stuck some place the sun does not shine too often , the stench most likely alignes your thinking , you made your own bed in the real life (?) now tough s###t you have to sleep in it .

[dumball]

We all (most countries) borrowed money from the financial institutions in America. They got greedy, they made up some money, and it all fell apart. We lost. "Too bad" you say? Well - If you bought a house, and it just fell apart on top of you, and there was no-one to cover it, would you still think "oh, too bad" ? (well, unless you have enough money to just buy another one...)

I cannot be satisfied or "mellow" by the fact that I am now getting fewer money in my pocket Someone has to get the blame, and the obvious one is the US, as they are the ones whom got greedy and went down the gutter!

Other than that, I hope tourist will come back to Thailand and put some money in the country - If their main reason for not coming is the issues in BKK, then it's silly. But sadly (AGAIN), it's prolly due to the financial recession spreading across the world... I pray for an end to all this....

That is a rather simplistic post. Need I remind you that only the greedy are hurt. If no other countries had bought the very risky derivatives from the US financial sector with hopes of reaping great profits, the financial meltdown would not have even felt in those countries, with the one exception that countries depending on the US money importing their products would have seen a reduction of their exports because the US would have less money to purchase foreign products. GREED was and is the problem in whatever country it exists.

My thoughts to a 'T' too many people depend on the majority to support them in one way or another , but , they ultimately reap what they(or do not) sow .

[Los78]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

[dumball]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

Beatifull dreamer , waken to me , affect 'Some of' Thailands exports ? Rice bowl of the region ? Come on , you have to do better than that to make a point , just the number of unemployed will put a huge dent in Thailands economy , add to that a large drop in tourism and what do you have ? Desperation as in other countries , face the facts , not optimism .

[jdinasia]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

Beatifull dreamer , waken to me , affect 'Some of' Thailands exports ? Rice bowl of the region ? Come on , you have to do better than that to make a point , just the number of unemployed will put a huge dent in Thailands economy , add to that a large drop in tourism and what do you have ? Desperation as in other countries , face the facts , not optimism .

By your reasoning (from way over there in Cambodia) Thailand will be in a decent position with food exports and over time should come out ahead as new investments by major companies will just not happen in the region. So Thailand would stay on top with little effort in the pickup truck market etc.

The facts are that compared to countries that export non-essentials, Thailand should come out with fewer issues.

[Thai at Heart]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

Beatifull dreamer , waken to me , affect 'Some of' Thailands exports ? Rice bowl of the region ? Come on , you have to do better than that to make a point , just the number of unemployed will put a huge dent in Thailands economy , add to that a large drop in tourism and what do you have ? Desperation as in other countries , face the facts , not optimism .

By your reasoning (from way over there in Cambodia) Thailand will be in a decent position with food exports and over time should come out ahead as new investments by major companies will just not happen in the region. So Thailand would stay on top with little effort in the pickup truck market etc.

The facts are that compared to countries that export non-essentials, Thailand should come out with fewer issues.

Whilst I believe that Thailand won't implode as other economies may, scoring points over Cambodia or Laos is normally the reserve of Thais. I will sleep well tonight knowing that the Thai economy will remain in better shape than Cambodia.

[Hermano Lobo]

China will soon look like the World's biggest warehouse full of unsold goods.

Thailand will be a holiday destination with empty bars, hotels and beaches.

[jdinasia]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

Beatifull dreamer , waken to me , affect 'Some of' Thailands exports ? Rice bowl of the region ? Come on , you have to do better than that to make a point , just the number of unemployed will put a huge dent in Thailands economy , add to that a large drop in tourism and what do you have ? Desperation as in other countries , face the facts , not optimism .

By your reasoning (from way over there in Cambodia) Thailand will be in a decent position with food exports and over time should come out ahead as new investments by major companies will just not happen in the region. So Thailand would stay on top with little effort in the pickup truck market etc.

The facts are that compared to countries that export non-essentials, Thailand should come out with fewer issues.

Whilst I believe that Thailand won't implode as other economies may, scoring points over Cambodia or Laos is normally the reserve of Thais. I will sleep well tonight knowing that the Thai economy will remain in better shape than Cambodia.

Nah, I was scoring points over someone IN Cambodia that drops in here to complain about Thailand or post gloom and doom

[jts-khorat]

Erm, no doubt that tourist arrivals are down overall, but tourist numbers from Britain is actually increasing this year.... More Brits than ever will visit Thailand this year and this high season than before... The same goes for the Scandinavian tourists, record numbers AGAIN this year.

Can you post the link to a source for your numbers?

Because they do really not seem to reflect any reality that I can see (and I am seeing empty hotels and beaches here on Phuket). But maybe all those invisible Brits and Swedish tourists are going to Bangkok to participate in the protests or fighting at the Cambodian border instead of actually holidaying...

[Thai at Heart]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

Beatifull dreamer , waken to me , affect 'Some of' Thailands exports ? Rice bowl of the region ? Come on , you have to do better than that to make a point , just the number of unemployed will put a huge dent in Thailands economy , add to that a large drop in tourism and what do you have ? Desperation as in other countries , face the facts , not optimism .

By your reasoning (from way over there in Cambodia) Thailand will be in a decent position with food exports and over time should come out ahead as new investments by major companies will just not happen in the region. So Thailand would stay on top with little effort in the pickup truck market etc.

The facts are that compared to countries that export non-essentials, Thailand should come out with fewer issues.

Whilst I believe that Thailand won't implode as other economies may, scoring points over Cambodia or Laos is normally the reserve of Thais. I will sleep well tonight knowing that the Thai economy will remain in better shape than Cambodia.

Nah, I was scoring points over someone IN Cambodia that drops in here to complain about Thailand or post gloom and doom

Fair enough. All exporting countries are in for a tough ride, and Thailand will take a bump, but it will ride through better than some of the others. That said the heart of the housing market is being ripped out of the UK and the US right now. Rightly or wrongly, those countries are going to take an awfully long time to get over it.

[jdinasia]

Maybe,

I don't see it yet though. 90% of my holdings are in real estate in the US and Canada but most is housing and fully leased out. I am ok until I have to deal with unemployment figures so high that I can't keep the places full.

[Thai at Heart]

Maybe,

I don't see it yet though. 90% of my holdings are in real estate in the US and Canada but most is housing and fully leased out. I am ok until I have to deal with unemployment figures so high that I can't keep the places full.

Latest headline from the Torygraph in the UK at least. Same top headline in the Times.

House repossessions increase by 71 per cent compared to last year

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...-last-year.html

Repos in the US are still sky high as far as I know. Good luck through the turmoil which has a long way to go until it finally works it's way out of the system.

[dumball]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

Beatifull dreamer , waken to me , affect 'Some of' Thailands exports ? Rice bowl of the region ? Come on , you have to do better than that to make a point , just the number of unemployed will put a huge dent in Thailands economy , add to that a large drop in tourism and what do you have ? Desperation as in other countries , face the facts , not optimism .

By your reasoning (from way over there in Cambodia) Thailand will be in a decent position with food exports and over time should come out ahead as new investments by major companies will just not happen in the region. So Thailand would stay on top with little effort in the pickup truck market etc.

The facts are that compared to countries that export non-essentials, Thailand should come out with fewer issues.

Whilst I believe that Thailand won't implode as other economies may, scoring points over Cambodia or Laos is normally the reserve of Thais. I will sleep well tonight knowing that the Thai economy will remain in better shape than Cambodia.

It is already showing signs of not achieving that prophecy , time alone will tell , results are already showing the obverse .

[Thai at Heart]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

Beatifull dreamer , waken to me , affect 'Some of' Thailands exports ? Rice bowl of the region ? Come on , you have to do better than that to make a point , just the number of unemployed will put a huge dent in Thailands economy , add to that a large drop in tourism and what do you have ? Desperation as in other countries , face the facts , not optimism .

By your reasoning (from way over there in Cambodia) Thailand will be in a decent position with food exports and over time should come out ahead as new investments by major companies will just not happen in the region. So Thailand would stay on top with little effort in the pickup truck market etc.

The facts are that compared to countries that export non-essentials, Thailand should come out with fewer issues.

Whilst I believe that Thailand won't implode as other economies may, scoring points over Cambodia or Laos is normally the reserve of Thais. I will sleep well tonight knowing that the Thai economy will remain in better shape than Cambodia.

It is already showing signs of not achieving that prophecy , time alone will tell , results are already showing the obverse .

Which prophecy? Is there a prophet who can take the indexes of the world back to where they were 2 months ago he will have a new religion with about 2bn followers tomorrow.

My point being, I don't give a dam_n about Thailand's relative wealth to their direct neighbours. Thai's might, and tend to take a weird sadistic nationalistic pride in it sometimes. Apologies if I offend, but it is a bit like being proud of being the tallest in a class of pygmies.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[Lite Beer]

Apologies if I offend, but it is a bit like being proud of being the tallest in class of pygmies.

:D

You made me spill my coffee.

[dumball]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

Beatifull dreamer , waken to me , affect 'Some of' Thailands exports ? Rice bowl of the region ? Come on , you have to do better than that to make a point , just the number of unemployed will put a huge dent in Thailands economy , add to that a large drop in tourism and what do you have ? Desperation as in other countries , face the facts , not optimism .

By your reasoning (from way over there in Cambodia) Thailand will be in a decent position with food exports and over time should come out ahead as new investments by major companies will just not happen in the region. So Thailand would stay on top with little effort in the pickup truck market etc.

The facts are that compared to countries that export non-essentials, Thailand should come out with fewer issues.

Whilst I believe that Thailand won't implode as other economies may, scoring points over Cambodia or Laos is normally the reserve of Thais. I will sleep well tonight knowing that the Thai economy will remain in better shape than Cambodia.

It is already showing signs of not achieving that prophecy , time alone will tell , results are already showing the obverse .

Which prophecy? Is there a prophet who can take the indexes of the world back to where they were 2 months ago he will have a new religion with about 2bn followers tomorrow.

My point being, I don't give a dam_n about Thailand's relative wealth to their direct neighbours. Thai's might, and tend to take a weird sadistic nationalistic pride in it sometimes. Apologies if I offend, but it is a bit like being proud of being the tallest in a class of pygmies.

As does some of the posters here who project an aura of ' Thaianism' , snide remarks gain very few browny points in my book , over expostulation of self proffesed intelligentia is just that , and bears no weight in general discussion or the prolifferation of English grammatical rectification , to me that shows a lack of personal prowess and actual pride in ones own abilities , point the finger , protect my derriere , put down the illiterate masses for i am god , you wish !!!!!!!!!

[Sakeopete]

It is also terrible for us living here, getting some money from abroad I will get 10% less this month, than the last, and 15% less than 2 months ago... Getting less baht for your foreign currency is not gonna help people investing money in the country dammit.

I think the Thai goverment has the same mentality as the development (houses) builders in Thailand. Oh - "So no tourist are buying our houses? Well, now it has been for sale a long time, and we used money advertising it... Let's raise the price! That will help..." (And that IS the case, at least here in Hua Hin...)

Are we ever going to see an end to this giant mess? Oh - Btw, THANK YOU AMERICA for putting us all in this giant shithole... I hope China will take your place as world power... We can't do any worse - Unless ofcourse, Obama is elected and your country will finally get some fair (and normal) agenda on the line... Gosh...

Can't blame America for all the worlds problems they may have done some creative lending that flopped but the rest of the world was more than eager to stick their noses in the trough. I'm sure those kind Chinese merchants with the high moral ethics who sell fake baby formula killing 13 babies (47 companies that got caught how many bribed their way clear) then again 2 years later 54000 babies sick and 4 dead (that were reported), slavery in brick yards, hundreds dead from unlicensed coal mines and families of the dead bribed or threatened not to expose the deaths, etc etc etc. Yes lets hope the Chinese will save us all from greed and corruption in the future, down with America!

[thailand_tom]

our reccesion in the usa is said to last till 2011, and have heard maybe longer, china built its economy on us, thailand exporters are last in line, no tourists, less expats plan on living in thailand, 2009 expected to be the beginning here in the usa, 2008 has been crap, almost 1 million jobs lost in usa this year here, without tourists, thailand was on its way down anyway, i have seen what it has done here to las vegas, layoffs by every casino,they stopped building a casino, due to less tourists, boyd,shell done,waiting maybe till 2011 to start again,less jobs around,foreclouers sky rocketing still here, read were thailand was going to avoid the meltdown, didn't see it then ..don't see it now..have priced tickets as far out as 6 months still 1600 - 2000 usd round trip, i just priced tickets from las vegas to new york, 300 usd round trip that is cheap, will fly back to new york and visit my family, i can go back east for a week for the price of 1 plane ticket to thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

The Thai's will tough it out. I cant see it being worse then other countries but a slow down will effect some of Thailands exports. Thailand is the rice bowl for this region and food is always needed so the agriculture side should not be hit too hard.

Beatifull dreamer , waken to me , affect 'Some of' Thailands exports ? Rice bowl of the region ? Come on , you have to do better than that to make a point , just the number of unemployed will put a huge dent in Thailands economy , add to that a large drop in tourism and what do you have ? Desperation as in other countries , face the facts , not optimism .

By your reasoning (from way over there in Cambodia) Thailand will be in a decent position with food exports and over time should come out ahead as new investments by major companies will just not happen in the region. So Thailand would stay on top with little effort in the pickup truck market etc.

The facts are that compared to countries that export non-essentials, Thailand should come out with fewer issues.

Whilst I believe that Thailand won't implode as other economies may, scoring points over Cambodia or Laos is normally the reserve of Thais. I will sleep well tonight knowing that the Thai economy will remain in better shape than Cambodia.

It is already showing signs of not achieving that prophecy , time alone will tell , results are already showing the obverse .

Which prophecy? Is there a prophet who can take the indexes of the world back to where they were 2 months ago he will have a new religion with about 2bn followers tomorrow.

My point being, I don't give a dam_n about Thailand's relative wealth to their direct neighbours. Thai's might, and tend to take a weird sadistic nationalistic pride in it sometimes. Apologies if I offend, but it is a bit like being proud of being the tallest in a class of pygmies.

As does some of the posters here who project an aura of ' Thaianism' , snide remarks gain very few browny points in my book , over expostulation of self proffesed intelligentia is just that , and bears no weight in general discussion or the prolifferation of English grammatical rectification , to me that shows a lack of personal prowess and actual pride in ones own abilities , point the finger , protect my derriere , put down the illiterate masses for i am god , you wish !!!!!!!!!

If you are pointing your finger at me, I think you are wrong. I dearly wish Thai's would aspire to a whole lot more than being self-satisfied with being wealthier (50% rural population living hand to mouth), less corrupt (excuse while I choke on their misplaced pride), better schooled (piffle), more wholesome (pah), more democratic (mmmm) than Burma, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. And good luck to all of those countries and I wish them all the best in one day overcoming Thailand glowing, overwhelming status as the wealthiest of them all. It might wake Thailand from it's self satisfied slumber.

Meanwhile many in Asia scratch their head and wonder what the hel_l this country is up to with protests, a hamstrung government whilst there is a financial meltdown going on in the world and nobody effectively at the helm to steer the country through this s**tstorm.

[jdinasia]

so "thailand_tom" is nowhere near Thailand?

yes the situation in the US may prevent some of the marginal tourists from visiting, but that just isn't that big of a deal in the long run. Again Thailand exports essentials ... they'll weather this storm fairly well

[dumball]

Thai at Heart , if you are refering to me NO , you give me the impresion of being a genuine poster , i was in fact responding to the ever over imposition of the one and only JD who has (it seems) set himself up as the directive on the 'Correct' way to post as long as it fits his criteria , what a terribly bland and disconcerting world this could become .Ah well , please take note , should he not be able to respond in a more amicable mode , i am out of here , i joined this forum because i had enjoyed reading posters comments , he over-rides his position as just that , A POSTER , we all should be entitled to our personal feelings on a subject without his constant subjucation due probably to his constrained up-bringing in some obtuse religeous confinement .

[jdinasia]

... flaming me now? Talking about how I was raised?

or just telling me how to post?

Bye Bye Dumball I'd love to say you'd be missed, but I attempt never to lie even in a semi-anonymous internet forum . I did however enjoy it when you tried to use a vocabulary that was beyond your ability to spell

edit ---- adding the quoted flame

Today, 2008-10-28 23:39:17

Post #54

Senior Member

Group: Members

Posts: 481

Joined: 2007-07-14

Member No.: 48,949

Thai at Heart , if you are refering to me NO , you give me the impresion of being a genuine poster , i was in fact responding to the ever over imposition of the one and only JD who has (it seems) set himself up as the directive on the 'Correct' way to post as long as it fits his criteria , what a terribly bland and disconcerting world this could become .Ah well , please take note , should he not be able to respond in a more amicable mode , i am out of here , i joined this forum because i had enjoyed reading posters comments , he over-rides his position as just that , A POSTER , we all should be entitled to our personal feelings on a subject without his constant subjucation due probably to his constrained up-bringing in some obtuse religeous confinement .

Edited October 28, 2008 by jdinasia

[Tinkelbell]

Are we ever going to see an end to this giant mess? Oh - Btw, THANK YOU AMERICA for putting us all in this giant shithole... I hope China will take your place as world power... We can't do any worse - Unless ofcourse, Obama is elected and your country will finally get some fair (and normal) agenda on the line... Gosh...

Ah, another American basher...

But your right of course, the world was a perfect place before America became an independent country. no European wars, no Crusades, never a financial crisis...

I hope you get your wish about China becomming the dominant world power. They have never, ever made a mistake and they are truly a kinder and gentler people. No greed there whatsoever.

Have a nice life

Locturian, I also wish you a nice life sooner, you're truely deserved it.

This is for someone who doesn't know what all the poisons that China adds into baby formulas, exported foods and toys, you'll be taken real good care from big brother China.

[lioness]

I believe the FTI has the gist of it, a recession and jobs lost.

If one deals in facts Exports of course are going to be affected because products that were reasonably priced are now some 30% or more expensive due to the exchange rates.

Tourism may be affected but I think more because of problems in peoples own countries ( loss of jobs/money etc ) rather than Thailand. Thailand is still a cheap holiday regardless of the exchange rates.

Once in Thailand everything you buy is dirt cheap compared to holidaying in say Europe, UK even Oz.

What do tourists do, lie on the beach, tour, eat, drink, all at a fraction of the price of their own countries and even with the poor exchange rates they are still a mile ahead.

It is a different story for those Foreigners living in Thailand and receiving money from their home countrys, this has been diminished. No complaints when the exchange skyrocketed a while back, I guess one has to take the good with the bad.

Strange when things go wrong we have to blame someone, of course it started somewhere? but is pointing the finger going to address the problem, I think not, better get on with it, tighten your belts and hope to sit it out. If that doesn't suit you can always go home.

[cymruambyth1]

so "thailand_tom" is nowhere near Thailand?

yes the situation in the US may prevent some of the marginal tourists from visiting, but that just isn't that big of a deal in the long run. Again Thailand exports essentials ... they'll weather this storm fairly well

Please refer to my post #11 regarding these 'marginal' tourists.

The third largest travel company in the UK are deeming it somewhat of a 'big deal'.

[cymruambyth1]

Forrest has got it right...

Mortgage Backed Securities are like boxes of chocolates. Criminals on Wall Street stole a few chocolates from the boxes and replaced them with turds. Their criminal buddies at Standard & Poor rated these boxes AAA Investment Grade chocolates. These boxes were then sold all over the world to investors. Eventually somebody bites into a turd and discovers the crime. Suddenly nobody trusts American chocolates anymore worldwide.

Hank Paulson now wants the American taxpayers to buy up and hold all these boxes of turd-infested chocolates for $700 billion dollars until the market for turds returns to normal. Meanwhile, Hank's buddies, the Wall Street criminals who stole all the good chocolates are not being investigated, arrested, or indicted.

Mama always said: 'Sniff the chocolates first Forrest'.

[AlKing]

I think the economic situation in Thailand is really bad. The tourist number is also down lot. It has affected THE industry greatly too. I used to have problem getting front row seats in Cowboy on Friday night; not any more. For the first time, my usual actually offered me a discount.

Edited October 29, 2008 by AlKing