Plans To Widen Tapae & Chiang Moi Rds

[cmsally]

Last week a fairly reliable source told me of a plan to widen Tapae & Chiang Moi Rds. As far as she knew this was fairly drastic widening involving expropriation of land. I thought it sounded more like a rumour although the source was pretty knowledgeable.

Then today my neighbour tells me it was on the TV last night - Channel 9 - with some local residents airing their disagreement.

Has anyone heard the details on this? The bit my neighbour heard was mostly the disagreement and not the details on the plan.

I must say I have heard some stupid ideas but this one takes the cookie!

[john b good]

"but this one takes the cookie"

That's for sure.

Whilst in principle it might be a good idea one would have to be a real wa*ker to think that it could fly.

"expropriation of land" would cost mega millions and for what "to build a super east - west superhighway thru Chiangmai"

They might as well get in some consultant and re-design all of Chiangmai and be done with it.

[SamSipEt]

Don't widen the road - deepen it by building a long long underpass (aka tunnel) - proven technology in the city look at what they have done with the ring road.

[Maejo Man]

Don't widen the road - deepen it by building a long long underpass (aka tunnel) - proven technology in the city look at what they have done with the ring road.

All the above mentioned underpasses were "open cut" with little or no actual tunneling. The thought of driving a tunnel under Thapae Road defies description. Expect to see Thapae Road unchanged in ten years time, potholes and all

[SoloFlyer]

same story with Nimann rd. all talk, no action.

I'v notice they've expanded some of the traffic islands aroung the mote... narrowing the lanes, causing more bottle necks.

[cmsally]

Anyone with property along a whole host of roads (and some sois) take note.

There is a massive project they are trying to push through to widen a whole host of roads in the city. They are too numerous to mention but include Tapae, Chang Moi, Loikhroh, Sirimungklajarn, canal road Mae Taeng-Hang Dong, some sois around Bumrungraj and Tung Hotel Rds, Kaew Nawarat Rd and many others. The amount of land they would need to expropriate to carry this out leaves the mind boggling and I have heard they want to take land well under going price.

There are a number of people already protesting, so if you live in an affected area just ask around.

There was a leaflet given out today by the Tesabahn giving 90 days to protest and guess what expires on 18 Nov.

Disgusting!

I know there are a number of groups on here interested in Chiang Mai culture and environment so I think now is the time to make everyone's voice heard.

This would really be the last nail in the coffin for Chiang Mai as a tourist destination. Committing it to years of ongoing unnecessary building work and spoiling large portions of the tourist areas.

Not to mention spoiling the city for what residents are left in the centre. At no time were they involved in either the plan or the decision, they have only found out at the last moment.

Edited November 8, 2008 by cmsally

[KevinHunt]

Last week a fairly reliable source told me of a plan to widen Tapae & Chiang Moi Rds. As far as she knew this was fairly drastic widening involving expropriation of land. I thought it sounded more like a rumour although the source was pretty knowledgeable.

Then today my neighbour tells me it was on the TV last night - Channel 9 - with some local residents airing their disagreement.

Has anyone heard the details on this? The bit my neighbour heard was mostly the disagreement and not the details on the plan.

I must say I have heard some stupid ideas but this one takes the cookie!

My wife received her notice from the local council yesterday. Most cities in the world are looking to reduce traffic in the city centre, it looks like they want to increase it here!!

[jackr]

Is this the same bunch that want to knock a tunnel through to MHS

Better off pedestrianising the lower half of Thapae to cause major snarl-ups and dissuade unnecessary driving through town.

[cmsally]

I will post the relevant letter here later and also the plan details which I have from the Tesabahn office.

This is way wackier than the MHS tunnel. They are talking about expropriating thousands of people property, for some it is their whole house. Quite frankly I wonder if it is being done just to stir up Chiang Mai into scenes of protest, because there will be many.

[in the sky]

Last week a fairly reliable source told me of a plan to widen Tapae & Chiang Moi Rds. As far as she knew this was fairly drastic widening involving expropriation of land. I thought it sounded more like a rumour although the source was pretty knowledgeable.

Then today my neighbour tells me it was on the TV last night - Channel 9 - with some local residents airing their disagreement.

Has anyone heard the details on this? The bit my neighbour heard was mostly the disagreement and not the details on the plan.

I must say I have heard some stupid ideas but this one takes the cookie!

As I understand, a lot of these "road works" are to line someones pocket - The road turns out very inferior, leaving us with very bad "repairs" and the contractor - or someone, skims off the top leaving him with a full pocket. These road works are ploys to get the fat cats fatter.

[cmsally]

Last week a fairly reliable source told me of a plan to widen Tapae & Chiang Moi Rds. As far as she knew this was fairly drastic widening involving expropriation of land. I thought it sounded more like a rumour although the source was pretty knowledgeable.

Then today my neighbour tells me it was on the TV last night - Channel 9 - with some local residents airing their disagreement.

Has anyone heard the details on this? The bit my neighbour heard was mostly the disagreement and not the details on the plan.

I must say I have heard some stupid ideas but this one takes the cookie!

As I understand, a lot of these "road works" are to line someones pocket - The road turns out very inferior, leaving us with very bad "repairs" and the contractor - or someone, skims off the top leaving him with a full pocket. These road works are ploys to get the fat cats fatter.

We are not talking about roadworks; we are talking about land being repossessed, in places over or around 10m each side of the road. I think mass destruction would be a better description.

[SoloFlyer]

They're starting to do prep work on the huge 2 plots of land at super-amari intersection. Rumours of a Mall. Traffic chaos to wrsen.

[Maejo Man]

They're starting to do prep work on the huge 2 plots of land at super-amari intersection. Rumours of a Mall. Traffic chaos to wrsen.

Just round the corner to Maejo Manor, and those two blocks have been sitting there in different guises for the last twenty years plus. Maybe.....just maybe something might happen, but I did say maybe

[jackr]

To be fair, most of those roads have unsightly buildings anyway and the likes of lower Thapae could really do with revitalising. Many building facades - the Roon Ruang Hotel being a prime example - are unsightly and make the city look old. In the case of Thapae, flattening the lot, widening pedestrian areas and making it tree-lined would bring it into the 21st century. The downside is the unseating of businesses, but unfortunately someone's always gonna lose out at the expense of improvement. If it were me, I'd be pissed

[Sathip2008]

There was a leaflet given out today by the Tesabahn giving 90 days to protest and guess what expires on 18 Nov.

Disgusting!

REGARDING THIS PROJECT, MY G/F WANTED TO GIVE SOME EXTRA INFORMATION AND EXPRESS HER FRUSTRATION ABOUT ALL THAT.

Cheers

Sathip

Yes, the leaflet or official letter was written on the 3rd of Nov (on the header of the letter) and we got it on Friday (Nov 7th) , my mother received it. But the stupid thing is that in the body of the letter it is said that we (the owners of the lands related to the mentioned area(s)) can contact the Tesabaan (Municipal office in their area) from Aug 21st until Nov.08th about this expanding project, which is BULLSHIT because they delayed the letter and didn't inform us until the last week before the deadline. My question is "What is their intention?", "did they really want to inform us or was it just a stupid tricky game to let people know one week before the deadline and then nobody can even have a chance to express their objection ??"

I can see that this municipal office is not sincere to the people of Chiang Mai, we really have to do something because it is getting very ugly now with this project. My family and I will be one of the (many) people who have objection with this project. We really need to know to WHOM will this project benefit ?

Why do you think people come live in Chiang Mai, why people visit Chiang Mai ? Isn't it a nice small city with its own charms...? And now, somebody who claims to be the so-called owner of this mega-project is trying to improve the city, for what purpose ? Can't they just improve what we have now to be a better city instead of destroying nearly everything in order to build a new (fake) city ?????? I really have no words to express how disgusted and upset I am about all this; first of all, I was born, here raised here, got my degrees here, work here, so I love Chiang Mai, second of all, my house and land are just next to where they want to expand the road, where am I supposed to live ? My ancestors in heaven would be very happy to know about this news !!!!!

[cmsally]

There was a leaflet given out today by the Tesabahn giving 90 days to protest and guess what expires on 18 Nov.

Disgusting!

REGARDING THIS PROJECT, MY G/F WANTED TO GIVE SOME EXTRA INFORMATION AND EXPRESS HER FRUSTRATION ABOUT ALL THAT.

Cheers

Sathip

Yes, the leaflet or official letter was written on the 3rd of Nov (on the header of the letter) and we got it on Friday (Nov 7th) , my mother received it. But the stupid thing is that in the body of the letter it is said that we (the owners of the lands related to the mentioned area(s)) can contact the Tesabaan (Municipal office in their area) from Aug 21st until Nov.08th about this expanding project, which is BULLSHIT because they delayed the letter and didn't inform us until the last week before the deadline. My question is "What is their intention?", "did they really want to inform us or was it just a stupid tricky game to let people know one week before the deadline and then nobody can even have a chance to express their objection ??"

I can see that this municipal office is not sincere to the people of Chiang Mai, we really have to do something because it is getting very ugly now with this project. My family and I will be one of the (many) people who have objection with this project. We really need to know to WHOM will this project benefit ?

Why do you think people come live in Chiang Mai, why people visit Chiang Mai ? Isn't it a nice small city with its own charms...? And now, somebody who claims to be the so-called owner of this mega-project is trying to improve the city, for what purpose ? Can't they just improve what we have now to be a better city instead of destroying nearly everything in order to build a new (fake) city ?????? I really have no words to express how disgusted and upset I am about all this; first of all, I was born, here raised here, got my degrees here, work here, so I love Chiang Mai, second of all, my house and land are just next to where they want to expand the road, where am I supposed to live ? My ancestors in heaven would be very happy to know about this news !!!!!

You are absolutely right about the dates, yours is the same as the one we received.

People especially in the market area have made large protests, going in numbers to various govt. offices.

My aunt today went to a meeting and nobody in her street is for the project. They want a huge strip of land to make what is now a soi into a 2 lane highway. It is ridiculous. For her neighbour that will mean the entire house - where are they supposed to go?

[cmsally]

A copy of letter dated 3 Nov. and only received today - giving only 10 days to reply , a lot of which coincide with holidays.

[john b good]

It won't happen (widening of Thapae Road) leastaways not in the lifetime of any current TV members

[Mapguy]

Last week a fairly reliable source told me of a plan to widen Tapae & Chiang Moi Rds. As far as she knew this was fairly drastic widening involving expropriation of land. I thought it sounded more like a rumour although the source was pretty knowledgeable.

Then today my neighbour tells me it was on the TV last night - Channel 9 - with some local residents airing their disagreement.

Has anyone heard the details on this? The bit my neighbour heard was mostly the disagreement and not the details on the plan.

I must say I have heard some stupid ideas but this one takes the cookie!

Perhaps it would be good to look at the plan before commenting.

Yes, there is "organized" protest. A meeting was held last night at First Christian Church.

Here's the public notice from the city. Note the web sites.

New_CM_City_Plan.pdf

[cmsally]

This diagram more or less fits the plans description I have. I will try to find time tomorrow to upload the details.

Here is the diagram.

Road plan

[Loaded]

Compensation will be calculated at the fixed government rate which means owners will receive little compensation for their land and property. Although the tessabahn may be in the pockets of local chao pors who own the building contractors, people won't accept this - there will be blood.

Edited November 9, 2008 by Loaded

[Sathip2008]

local chao pors

Is it the new name of the N. C..... M.. family ?

[Johpa]

local chao pors

Is it the new name of the N. C..... M.. family ?

I can't speak about the younger generations of the older high Sakdina families of Chiang Mai, but the older generations, the few times I interacted with them, seemed to be pretty decent folk and were not rumored to be involved in the never ending road contracting schemes that have been ongoing in Chiang Mai since I first spent time in the fair Muang nearly 30 years ago. But one never knows upon whose shoulder has been placed the nefarious right hand of the God of Greed .

[cmsally]

These are in fact details of the project provided by the opposition group who are based at the Buddhist organisartion hall at the start of Tapae Rd. near Nawarat Bridge.

The Tesabahn did not produce these details and apparently have no handouts or published details apart from what is on their website (same map I posted) and is also the same on a board at their office.

It is I think fairly indicative of the murky politics behind this, that opposition should list the Buddhist Organisation as the headquarters of their group as no one wants to be in the front line of retribution by using personal names and addresses.

As far as local politics goes, I don't think some posters are too far off the mark.

[Loaded]

Along Kaewnawarat Road are lots of banners stuck to the outside of buildings protesting the plans. There is even one written in English!

Kaewnawarat is already wide enough for 2 cars on either side of the central white line. Does it need more width to accommodate a 3rd car either side? Much better to effectively control traffic rather than have overweight and rather unintelligent plods blowing whistles and waving their hands at junctions. Also it's bloody stupid to have two of the largest schools in the north along Kaewnawarat run Saturday classes plus close down the road for a 'walking street' thing half way down opposite Bungrumrad Rd.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Loaded

[Mapguy]

These are in fact details of the project provided by the opposition group who are based at the Buddhist organisartion hall at the start of Tapae Rd. near Nawarat Bridge.

The Tesabahn did not produce these details and apparently have no handouts or published details apart from what is on their website (same map I posted) and is also the same on a board at their office.

It is I think fairly indicative of the murky politics behind this, that opposition should list the Buddhist Organisation as the headquarters of their group as no one wants to be in the front line of retribution by using personal names and addresses.

As far as local politics goes, I don't think some posters are too far off the mark.

The organization in question is the Urban Development Institute Foundation (UDIF) which is a well-founded very respectable organization of considerable standing which promotes sustainability of Lanna culture and the city of Chiang Mai on many issues. WEB SITE: www.udif.or.th EMAIL: [email protected]. You can become a member of this organization. The office (with exhibit hall) is located on the second floor of the center (see above), which is located on Thaepae Road directly across from the residence of the governor of Chiang Mai (on the river). Parking is available. It is worth a visit if you are truly interested in the city. Dr. Duongchan Apavatjrut Charoenmuang, a senior reseracher at Chiang Mai University, is the director.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Mapguy

[peekint]

I just reviewed the plan as present by the UDIF. I haven't been able to find it on the websites listed on the notification letter; it must be well-buried. I'll ask my husband (he's Thai) to peruse the sites with me tomorrow since he can read a lot faster than I can!

However, what I saw in the UDIF paper was breathtaking in the scope of its stupidity.

Unless these folks have some Napoleon-like dream of "reinventing" Chiang Mai, and have found a Hausmann to do it, all I can foresee is a grand conspiracy to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

Widen Nimanhemin Road? The pavements are barely passable as they are, littered with pitiful street trees planted directly below electric wires and blocked by gwai deiow carts and poster boards. Nimanhemin has become one of the top tourist areas in Chiang Mai in just a few short years. Are we so ready to destroy the one "hip" area of the city, cited by the NY Times as one of the must-go places in Chiang Mai?

And Huay Gaew? It's the only avenue in the city with pavements that are reasonably passable (only because the local merchants wisely decimated the street trees which some well-meaning urban forestry project planted in the middle of the walking path directly under the electric wires). I've often remarked to my friends that if Huay Gaew were truly made walker-friendly, it would become the wealthiest retail and entertainment district in the city - imagine it, a continuous pleasant experience from the moat to Nimanhemin, complete with shops, restaurants, a shopping mall (Kad Suan Gaew) and some lovely old houses!

I don't even want to think about the widening of the roads in the "New City" area. The area already suffers from a dilapidation arising from the botched project to bury electric wires and "beautify" the street. Historic and architecturally important buildings are left to moulder as tourists take snaps and shake their heads. How often have I heard a mumbled "What a shame..." as they walked away.

Perhaps the new vision is to just tear down all the old buildings and replace them with more duek taew, covered with faceless aluminum facades promoting fly-by-night insurance companies, car stereo installers, and places to renew your pah raw baw insurance ... at no extra charge!

No, it appears these people haven't a clue. The only saving grace is, the politics are so unstable, it is unlikely that any project this large can actually be implemented. Let's hope for the best!

PS - I still smile and nod my head with pride for Chiang Mai any time I use one of the underpasses on the Super Highway or First Ring Road. Something Chiang Mai did right - even could become know for, if it weren't for the Bangkok-style eyesore airport interchange. How did these underpasses happen? How did we get it right once? (even if the contractor couldn't finish them, a small detail, really)...

Edited November 11, 2008 by peekint

[cmsally]

I just reviewed the plan as present by the UDIF. I haven't been able to find it on the websites listed on the notification letter; it must be well-buried.

Tesabahn website

Go down to number 2 in centre column (pink) Fai Pangmuang

and look at numbers 1-5 under that. That seems to be about it.

Whatever else the UDIF have is from their own research.

2.ฝ่ายผังเมือง แบ่งเป็น

- งานจัดทำผังเมือง

- งานควบคุมผังเมือง

- แบบบ้านประหยัดพลังงาน

- ตรวจสอบผังเมืองรวมเมืองเชียงใหม่ (ปรับปรุงครั้งที่ 3)

1. แผนผังแสดงการใช้ประโยชน์ที่ดินในอนาคต

2. แผนผังแสดงการคมนาคมและขนส่ง

3. ข้อกำหนดการใช้ประโยชน์ที่ดิน

4. บัญชีแนบโรงงานอุตสาหกรรม

5. แบบคำร้องของผู้มีส่วนได้เสีย

There seems to be no kind of dialogue between Tesabahn and people of Chiang Mai and this deadline of Nov 18 is a joke when most people have only known about it for a couple of weeks. Even people I know working in the Tesabahn know nothing about details.

There are more and more banners going up in affected areas but I don't know that there seems to be an awful lot of coordination.

But if they think they can breeze through without any opposition when it really comes to the crunch some heads are going to roll.

Edited November 11, 2008 by cmsally

[Mapguy]

I just reviewed the plan as present by the UDIF. I haven't been able to find it on the websites listed on the notification letter; it must be well-buried. I'll ask my husband (he's Thai) to peruse the sites with me tomorrow since he can read a lot faster than I can!

However, what I saw in the UDIF paper was breathtaking in the scope of its stupidity.

Unless these folks have some Napoleon-like dream of "reinventing" Chiang Mai, and have found a Hausmann to do it, all I can foresee is a grand conspiracy to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

Widen Nimanhemin Road? The pavements are barely passable as they are, littered with pitiful street trees planted directly below electric wires and blocked by gwai deiow carts and poster boards. Nimanhemin has become one of the top tourist areas in Chiang Mai in just a few short years. Are we so ready to destroy the one "hip" area of the city, cited by the NY Times as one of the must-go places in Chiang Mai?

And Huay Gaew? It's the only avenue in the city with pavements that are reasonably passable (only because the local merchants wisely decimated the street trees which some well-meaning urban forestry project planted in the middle of the walking path directly under the electric wires). I've often remarked to my friends that if Huay Gaew were truly made walker-friendly, it would become the wealthiest retail and entertainment district in the city - imagine it, a continuous pleasant experience from the moat to Nimanhemin, complete with shops, restaurants, a shopping mall (Kad Suan Gaew) and some lovely old houses!

I don't even want to think about the widening of the roads in the "New City" area. The area already suffers from a dilapidation arising from the botched project to bury electric wires and "beautify" the street. Historic and architecturally important buildings are left to moulder as tourists take snaps and shake their heads. How often have I heard a mumbled "What a shame..." as they walked away.

Perhaps the new vision is to just tear down all the old buildings and replace them with more duek taew, covered with faceless aluminum facades promoting fly-by-night insurance companies, car stereo installers, and places to renew your pah raw baw insurance ... at no extra charge!

No, it appears these people haven't a clue. The only saving grace is, the politics are so unstable, it is unlikely that any project this large can actually be implemented. Let's hope for the best!

PS - I still smile and nod my head with pride for Chiang Mai any time I use one of the underpasses on the Super Highway or First Ring Road. Something Chiang Mai did right - even could become know for, if it weren't for the Bangkok-style eyesore airport interchange. How did these underpasses happen? How did we get it right once? (even if the contractor couldn't finish them, a small detail, really)...

Unfortunately, the goose is in the oven!

Wow! Such an intelligent post! Can't say I agree with every bit of it, but I hope from time to time, you will continue to post on this and other important Chiang Mai issues so that ThaiVisa is not completely taken over by those seeking the perfect hamburger!

I strongly support UDIF (The Urban Development Institute Foundation) whose secretary-general is Dr. Duongchan Apavatjrut Charoenmuang. Dr. Duongchan's (and others') impulse to preserve Lanna culture is firm. You can call it what you will: preserving "quaintness," the economic input of tourism, call it nostalgic, or even, perhaps, somewhat xenophobic (but no more than --- in the USA --- the attitude of Vermont natives toward immigrant urban New Yorkers wanting to buy the place up; or Oregonians similarly about Californians.) Anyway, it is very, very intelligent, well-informed and caring.

There are certain realities to growth in a city more than a thousand years old! These do have to be reckoned with. There is no easy solution. Well, just ask Dr. Duongchan! She is at The Social Research Institute of Chiang Mai University. Her B.A. (Chulalongkorn) was in architecture. Her M.A. (University of Pennsylvania) was in City Planning. Her Ph.D (Tokyo University) was in Urban Engineering (with a focus on urban conservation). Not exactly shabby credentials. Her family has been in Chiang Mai at least four generations.

The reality of all this is also political, having to do with the contending forces of local, regional, and national political interests. For that you might consult Dr. Tanet Charoenmuang of the Political Science faculty of Chiang Mai University.

Oh, yeah! Want to know why the underpasses are underpasses, not flyovers? Ask Dr. Duongchan and others who have been trying a long time to get the goose out of the oven!!

[Loaded]

Although the 'plan' has come from central government in Bangkok, it was written with the cooperation of, and with coordination form, the muang tessabahn. The muang tessabahn received the final draft in August but have waited until just a few days before the deadline for official public objections to announce it to the people of the city.

Dr Beng is the mayor, aka executive head of the muang tessabahn. Dr Beng will have known about this plan since August. Dr Beng has waited until just before the deadline for objection to tell the tax payers of their new burden and householders along these roads of the plan to knock down their houses and businesses. Maybe Dr Beng should be asked to comment. Anyone have a contact Email address?