Thaksin Begs For "Royal Kindness"

[Koo82]

Right now the lack of leaders is frigging scary.

They did all they could to bring people down, to ban people for 5 years. Now they want all parties to go down at once. What do they actually want?

[lordofdelusion]

Thaksin, believed to be making the call from Hong Kong, said he was suffering from karma not of his making.

Chamlong Warns Thaksin Not to Distort Karma Teaching

PAD Leader Chamlong Srimuang is warning ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra not to distort Buddhist teachings by referring his downfall to the karma that he did not deserve.

He said that Thaksin’s claim during his telephone address on Saturday, which suggested that he is facing the karma of a sin he did not commit, was a distortion of Buddhist teachings.

As a prominent Buddhist practitioner, Chamlong said the most certain things in life are aging, sickness, death, farewell, and karma.

He then stated that people have to pay for the karma they owe, therefore, it is undeniable that Thaksin is facing his own due.

Chamlong also said that Thaksin’s karma has caught up with him sooner than he believed, as the Thai court just sentenced him behind bars for two years for conflict of interest, while his brother-in-law is now implicated in adultery rumors.

He advises PM Somchai Wongsawat to come clean or deny the rumors as soon as possible because staying mum could be interpreted as guilt.

- TOC / 2008-11-03

That's the most intelligent thing I've heard come out of anyone's mouth in this long affair. And no, Karma can ripen at any time. Not just after death. Cause and effect. Thaksin is in this pickle because of his actions. Same as the rest of us commoners.

[Koo82]

Why do you think that what NBT tells is the truth, Koo?

2 I can think of instantly are:

- That "lady" who could build her house for 4 million Baht. Best contractor of the world cannot do it.

- That person in the judge group who judged Khun Samak being "look jang" (employee) was also a look jang because he gives speeches in universities (not for free).

[clausewitz]

Which nicely balances the Pro-goverrnment STATIONS

that also deliver much wrong information.

ying-yang, left-right, up-down, good-bad.

Can't have one without the other.

I prefer the NBT. They tell the truth with evidence in a calm manner, unlike the ASTV.

NBT are so unbaised they bend over and take it while trying not to make PAD seem like idiots (very ahrd to do). But this is not enough for the PAD crazies, by their bizaree outlook if you are not advcoating the overthrow of the government you must be evil.

If NBT put things as truthfully as the world;s media they would be condemned by the bulk of the press in Thailand:

here are some quotes from world media:

CNN

http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/tag/dan-rivers/

they[PAD] want nothing less than the overthrow of the entire political system. Their argument goes something like this: the vast majority of voters are poor, uneducated farmers who are susceptible to corruption by Thaksin and his allies, therefore we should abandon democracy to prevent this corruption

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/democracy/news/a...jectid=10531139

But the PAD has nothing to do with democracy. In fact, it claims that the ballot box gives too much weight to the ill-educated rural poor, whose votes can easily be "bought" (that is, won) with promises of government largesse.

The so-called People’s Alliance for Democracy proposes an audaciously undemocratic “new politics” whereby most members of parliament would be appointed. Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, Geneva

The insurgents still style themselves as the “People’s Alliance for Democracy,” but this time some of their leaders are explicit in calling for just the opposite: the restoration of a full monarchy or a military-backed autocracy. Washington Post

What his [samak’s] opponents, who come under the misleading banner of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), want is a mandate on demand, by theft. Straits Times

Even though the PAD’s very name includes the word democracy, many of its supporters are skeptical of electoral politics. Time

The rebel groups are trying to roll back the results of last December’s general elections and reinstall rule by an urban elite traditionally backed by the Thai armed forces. Irish Times

An alliance of street protesters and a reactionary elite. Financial Times

The latest ideologue [sondhi] who promises to fix their country’s democracy by -- once again -- breaking it. Wall Street Journal

What the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) did on August 26 … was a putsch. La Stampa

Authoritarian rabble … the woefully misnamed People’s Alliance for Democracy … a gruesome bunch of reactionary businessmen, generals and aristocrats. Economist

The PAD leadership is no collection of spotless democrats. The Independent (London)

The group’s name appears to be a misnomer as it is neither populist nor does it want representative democracy. Al-Jazeera

[soundman]

What a pathetic Toxin lowlife: It greets people who loves democracy...

Here is what it said back then about that democracy is not a goal, but a means to ...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-demo...Goal-t4293.html

Oh, I do love that report.

Here's a snippet, just to refresh everybody's memories..

BANGKOK: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday revealed for the first time the value he places on democracy, saying it was not the foremost thing Thailand needed.

In a candid statement made ominous by its release on Constitution Day, Thaksin said that as long as the country could progress and the people were happy, he was not concerned about the means used.

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

Perhaps foreign media should be reminded when he pulls the un-fairly evicted from office card.

[Koo82]

Have been trying to get an interview with him, but far from easy to pin down.

If you follow her lead, you need to go to London... cry a lot in front of him... but in the end, you'll end up with not just an interview, but an entire book deal...

Government sources said Thaksin arrived in Hong Kong yesterday, where he will record an eight-minute message for today's gathering of his supporters.

*London...Cambodia...Chiang Rai...and now, Hong Kong, sheesh... here's that book from one of Thaksin's girlfriend...

I suppose when someone says she is his GF, he's seen them sleep together. I need him to prove that.

[sriracha john]

Why do you think that what NBT tells is the truth, Koo?

Their show, Truth Today, has "truth" in its title.

[sriracha john]

Have been trying to get an interview with him, but far from easy to pin down.

If you follow her lead, you need to go to London... cry a lot in front of him... but in the end, you'll end up with not just an interview, but an entire book deal...

Government sources said Thaksin arrived in Hong Kong yesterday, where he will record an eight-minute message for today's gathering of his supporters.

*London...Cambodia...Chiang Rai...and now, Hong Kong, sheesh... here's that book from one of Thaksin's girlfriend...

I suppose when someone says she is his GF, he's seen them sleep together. I need him to prove that.

Perhaps a video of their rendezvous in a love hotel like the one for the current Prime Minister will soon surface for his brother-in-law past Prime Minister.

[Tod]

Which nicely balances the Pro-goverrnment STATIONS

that also deliver much wrong information.

ying-yang, left-right, up-down, good-bad.

Can't have one without the other.

I prefer the NBT. They tell the truth with evidence in a calm manner, unlike the ASTV.

NBT are so unbaised they bend over and take it while trying not to make PAD seem like idiots (very ahrd to do). But this is not enough for the PAD crazies, by their bizaree outlook if you are not advcoating the overthrow of the government you must be evil.

If NBT put things as truthfully as the world;s media they would be condemned by the bulk of the press in Thailand:

here are some quotes from world media:

CNN

http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/tag/dan-rivers/

they[PAD] want nothing less than the overthrow of the entire political system. Their argument goes something like this: the vast majority of voters are poor, uneducated farmers who are susceptible to corruption by Thaksin and his allies, therefore we should abandon democracy to prevent this corruption

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/democracy/news/a...jectid=10531139

But the PAD has nothing to do with democracy. In fact, it claims that the ballot box gives too much weight to the ill-educated rural poor, whose votes can easily be "bought" (that is, won) with promises of government largesse.

The so-called People's Alliance for Democracy proposes an audaciously undemocratic "new politics" whereby most members of parliament would be appointed. Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, Geneva

The insurgents still style themselves as the "People's Alliance for Democracy," but this time some of their leaders are explicit in calling for just the opposite: the restoration of a full monarchy or a military-backed autocracy. Washington Post

What his [samak's] opponents, who come under the misleading banner of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), want is a mandate on demand, by theft. Straits Times

Even though the PAD's very name includes the word democracy, many of its supporters are skeptical of electoral politics. Time

The rebel groups are trying to roll back the results of last December's general elections and reinstall rule by an urban elite traditionally backed by the Thai armed forces. Irish Times

An alliance of street protesters and a reactionary elite. Financial Times

The latest ideologue [sondhi] who promises to fix their country's democracy by -- once again -- breaking it. Wall Street Journal

What the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) did on August 26 … was a putsch. La Stampa

Authoritarian rabble … the woefully misnamed People's Alliance for Democracy … a gruesome bunch of reactionary businessmen, generals and aristocrats. Economist

The PAD leadership is no collection of spotless democrats. The Independent (London)

The group's name appears to be a misnomer as it is neither populist nor does it want representative democracy. Al-Jazeera

That is pretty unanimous.

[Tod Daniels]

I thought it was quite a not so subtle way to send up a trial balloon and see how it floated amongst the public at large and the inner circle of the "he who shall not be named" mechanism which controls thailand.

It totally avoided any risk of an outright denial in a petition for royal pardon.

Crafty guy that Thaksin..

[animatic]

Which nicely balances the Pro-goverrnment STATIONS

that also deliver much wrong information.

ying-yang, left-right, up-down, good-bad.

Can't have one without the other.

I prefer the NBT. They tell the truth with evidence in a calm manner, unlike the ASTV.

NBT are so unbaised they bend over and take it while trying not to make PAD seem like idiots (very ahrd to do). But this is not enough for the PAD crazies, by their bizaree outlook if you are not advcoating the overthrow of the government you must be evil.

If NBT put things as truthfully as the world;s media they would be condemned by the bulk of the press in Thailand:

here are some quotes from world media:

CNN

http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/tag/dan-rivers/

they[PAD] want nothing less than the overthrow of the entire political system. Their argument goes something like this: the vast majority of voters are poor, uneducated farmers who are susceptible to corruption by Thaksin and his allies, therefore we should abandon democracy to prevent this corruption

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/democracy/news/a...jectid=10531139

But the PAD has nothing to do with democracy. In fact, it claims that the ballot box gives too much weight to the ill-educated rural poor, whose votes can easily be "bought" (that is, won) with promises of government largesse.

The so-called People's Alliance for Democracy proposes an audaciously undemocratic "new politics" whereby most members of parliament would be appointed. Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, Geneva

The insurgents still style themselves as the "People's Alliance for Democracy," but this time some of their leaders are explicit in calling for just the opposite: the restoration of a full monarchy or a military-backed autocracy. Washington Post

What his [samak's] opponents, who come under the misleading banner of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), want is a mandate on demand, by theft. Straits Times

Even though the PAD's very name includes the word democracy, many of its supporters are skeptical of electoral politics. Time

The rebel groups are trying to roll back the results of last December's general elections and reinstall rule by an urban elite traditionally backed by the Thai armed forces. Irish Times

An alliance of street protesters and a reactionary elite. Financial Times

The latest ideologue [sondhi] who promises to fix their country's democracy by -- once again -- breaking it. Wall Street Journal

What the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) did on August 26 … was a putsch. La Stampa

Authoritarian rabble … the woefully misnamed People's Alliance for Democracy … a gruesome bunch of reactionary businessmen, generals and aristocrats. Economist

The PAD leadership is no collection of spotless democrats. The Independent (London)

The group's name appears to be a misnomer as it is neither populist nor does it want representative democracy. Al-Jazeera

That is pretty unanimous.

Why it's SO gloriously consistent it looks like Thaksin's Public Relations companies are earning their keep.

This is ALL his line regurgitated by those not bothering to send people on the ground to ask around.

You, of course, have cherry data picked to fit your policy line.

The only even handed ones were

Even though the PAD's very name includes the word democracy, many of its supporters are skeptical of electoral politics. Time

CNN

http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/tag/dan-rivers/

they[PAD] want nothing less than the overthrow of the entire political system. Their argument goes something like this:

the vast majority of voters are poor, uneducated farmers who are susceptible to corruption by Thaksin and his allies,

therefore we should abandon democracy to prevent this corruption

This last from Oct 7th. And of course subject to his interpreters interpretation.

At least Dan Rivers goes and sees for himself.

But attacking PAD for throwing out ideas that may not work is,

STILL NOT SOLVING THE REAL PROBLEM...

But you enjoy attacking PAD.

Slap the watchdog till it's silent when the theives come a creeping.

Edited November 3, 2008 by animatic

[Siripon]

I wonder if one of Democrat's lawyers could assess how many people Thaksin has sued over the last few years, I wouldn't be surprised if he holds the record for the greatest number sued in Thailand. And he claims the justice system is skewed!

[TAWP]

I'm still waiting for the 'I don't love Thaksin but I hate PAD'-brigade to come and correct Koo82. Or is the claim to not support Thaksin a shield to protect yourselfs from having to explain why you would ever support such a man? Supporter of the poor you are not.

[animatic]

I wonder if one of Democrat's lawyers could assess how many people Thaksin has sued over the last few years, I wouldn't be surprised if he holds the record for the greatest number sued in Thailand. And he claims the justice system is skewed!

Good question Sir!

I too wonder how many thunderbolts has Thor thrown from mount Olympus

onto the quavering heads of those who DARED dispute A Lord in his demenses?

[Koo82]

Have been trying to get an interview with him, but far from easy to pin down.

If you follow her lead, you need to go to London... cry a lot in front of him... but in the end, you'll end up with not just an interview, but an entire book deal...

Government sources said Thaksin arrived in Hong Kong yesterday, where he will record an eight-minute message for today's gathering of his supporters.

*London...Cambodia...Chiang Rai...and now, Hong Kong, sheesh... here's that book from one of Thaksin's girlfriend...

I suppose when someone says she is his GF, he's seen them sleep together. I need him to prove that.

Perhaps a video of their rendezvous in a love hotel like the one for the current Prime Minister will soon surface for his brother-in-law past Prime Minister.

Which one? I need facts.

[Bangyai]

He may have been run out of the valley, but he is still around in the hills

lobbing big rocks onto the town...

Sondhi was greatly responsible for a HUGE chunk of Thaksin's working capital.

And he no doubt thought doubling Thaksins large investment and then buying him,

or at least arranging a buy out out was worth something down the line.

I would too.

This more than put Thaksin in another tax bracket, but into a brand new ball park.

And social status, worth as much or more.

BUT, the twiwst,

no doubts when Sondhi was doing the competing telephone and Lao Satalite deals

he suddenly came back on Thaksin's radar as a real threat to Shin Corp profit.

ANOTHER SE Asian satalite right here in his market....

Old favors be damned, he wanted to win and when opportunitey presented itself,

made dam_n sure Sondhi didn't stay at the same competitive level Thaksin was at.

Best ways was make sure he is over-loaded with debt. Don't bring him in on the

pre-devaluation swap out to harder currencies... a BIG stiffing of an old friend.

Then screwed him some more, particularly as his ego grew greater, and Sondhi got more vocal.

I really think THIS is the crux of their bad feeling and the basis for WHY Sondhi

was a perfect pitbull to run Thaksin out. He is far from the only one wanting him out,

but a determined and talented point man.

Like I said Thaksonstein's Monster.

ALL businessmen at this level are snakes. Nature of the beast.

But regardless a Nu how Thai Cobra is one hel_l of a serious beast to fuc_k with....

I know because I MET one in my house...

Yes, there's no doubt that Sondhi gave Thaksin a leg up and feels the only thing he got out of it was a look up Thaksins kilt. But the Lao Star debacle was none of Thaksins affair. Sondhi was unfortunate enough to start this venture with Laos before the Asian crash and lost his shirt and a lot more on account of it. I think your comment that all businessmen at this level are snakes to be mostly true. Also ,as you say, in many ways they are two sides of the same coin. Which is why a lot of people distrust the PAD.If you can't trust one, why put faith in the other ? Getting read of Thaksin is one thing, replacing him with something that meets Sondhi and Chamlongs approval is just as bad. In this respect I think Sondhi is a liability. He is not interested in dialogue or compromise. It has to be his way or no way. Why ?? Does he think the military are any less corrupt than politicians ??? Surely not.

[Bangyai]

It's not impossible to remove Thaksin from Thailand...

PAD success as temple statue is changed following protest at Banglamung Temple

Yesterday we reported on a PAD demonstration at the Banglamung Temple over a new Buddhist statue base which featured a sculpture of the former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The base was intended to celebrate the role of influential government figures and the PAD demonstrators were angry that the former Prime Minister, who is now in exile in UK, was featured.

They demanded that he be removed from the base within 7 days or further action would be taken. We can now report that on Thursday morning he was removed from the base to the delight of the local PAD supporters who thanked the temple and architect for their prompt action.

- Pattaya One News / 2008-10-30

And meanwhile, back at the ranch, the UDD came up with this

The difference being one is real and the other is imaginary.

Possibly, but which ones which ?

[animatic]

I suppose when someone says she is his GF, he's seen them sleep together. I need him to prove that.

Perhaps a video of their rendezvous in a love hotel like the one for the current Prime Minister will soon surface for his brother-in-law past Prime Minister.

Which one? I need facts.

Salacious gossip.

Only has served to makes Somchai look like a tiny real man instead of a total milktoast.

I bet Yawopapa has give him a good ear burning over getting caught.. tee hee!

Who cares about facts, he's seems quite happy ANYONE thinks he actual has a pair

not being kept on the wifes dressing table.

Edited November 3, 2008 by animatic

[steveromagnino]

AS for quoting from Singapore Straits Times, a country well known for lack of freedom of the press.... I would have expected nothing less than this poorly written trash posing as a fair and balanced report.

Here we go again.George Orwell pointed out long ago that those who disliked his opinions always stated his books and articles were poorly written.As it happens, and with all due modesty I am quite well placed to assess, and leaving out all comment on content, Nirmal Ghosh writes rather elegantly and clearly.

During TRT the media of Thailand tended to believe that they were to be generally biased to be pro Thaksin or else suffer financial issues (only the Nation initially could stand up to them, and even they eventually faded away)

Fact: Singapore ranked as 147th country in 2004 in terms of media freedom by Reporters without borders and is now in 2008 ranked in at 153rd; basically on par with countries like Iraq, Myanmar, Libya, Zimbabwe and China.

By comparison Thailand ranks 124th. My opinion therefore ......So if you think the Thai media is completely intimidated and has suffered rampant interference (and I do), then make it about 50 countries worse that this....and that's Singapore which is often referring to the Strait Times as the PAP (ruling party) party mouthpiece. I agree, the article is written technically well (good grammar, reasonable use of language, nice picture painted) - just as some one says anything in ASTV can be relied on to be hysterically pro PAD/anti PPP, I am merely commenting that most accredited journalists would consider anything in the Straits to be the opposite.

Certainly far from a rant, just a statement of fact regarding political bias - you will note I have also mentioned both in the original post as well as here that ASTV would be similarly impossible to rely on as being objective, and i would have no difficulty in shooting it down also.

And obviously, it should be mentioned that pre TRT, Thailand was a bastion of the free press, ranked somewhere closer to the top 100 and in 2000 was ranked 29th in the world....by 2005 we had dropped to 105th under PPP we are now at 124th. In other words.... fact = media here is not free and is influenced by whoever for whatever reason, and has been since TRT got into power; Singapore is even worse.

Not rant for the most part. Opinion based on fact. This is why I post less and less ;-) I feel like the bland leading the blind!

นอกจากพระบารมีที่จะทรงมีพระเมตตา หรือไม่ก็พลังของพี่น้องประชาชนทุกท่าน

As for his comment, translated well it would be, The only reason to come back would be at the behest of his Majesty the King, or if not that (or could be translated as and if his Majesty did not request so) then the will of all Thai people.

As for the comments regarding my own views, I dislike the PAD, but I would like to see objective reporting.

'Note the Herald is new zealnds leading newspaper, the Strait Times is Singapore's. But then he feels the Economist is also a rag for not supporting PAD(he hasn't weighed in on Time yet, which also came down on PAD) '

Economist I know of the writer, he covers across Asia (not just Thailand) so has a relatively rudimentary understanding of the facts; I offered to assist the Herald in writing regarding Thailand as I have previously helped them with business reporting; offer was not even replied to.

Don't compare Straits to the Herald; the Herald is in a media free press country, and while they are hopeless at reporting on many things, in general they are not bad and not particuarly political. For Asia, they wouldn't have a clue where to start.

I am quite amused at the idea that NBT is somehow objective from people like Koo82 when it reports to the PM's office and is a matter of record that each journalist was appraised when PPP got into power on what they had said positively about/against coup, Thaksin and a few other matters. (So TAWP, I guess I am the member of your little club! - don't worry, I won't waste your time posting further in this thread, so please don't let facts and straight dope get in the way of the objectivivty of NBT)

As for the banned politicians, I know many of them, have consulted and worked for a couple, and there are only a couple I even think are worthy of mention for being 'good guys' who should be missed - Somkid and Purachai (not that I know either) - the rest are mostly deadbeats and idiots.

Edited November 3, 2008 by steveromagnino

[Samuian]

นอกจากพระบารมีที่จะทรงมีพระเมตตา หรือไม่ก็พลังของพี่น้องประชาชนทุกท่าน

As for his comment, translated well it would be, The only reason to come back would be at the behest of his Majesty the King, or if not that (or could be translated as and if his Majesty did not request so) then the will of all Thai people.

Saturdays staged show did point in this direction!

What else then a popular, democratic vote is he up to...he's going to work on this one relentlessly, he wants "his money" back, for this he must win and I am afraid, till now he has shown he got the leverage!

He/them won't stop, they know if they give in now, it's forever!

unless....well let's see!

[steveromagnino]

as trink would say, any further comment would be superfluous or something to that effect. 55555555555555555

You know the latest joke

Sondhi has no nose

How does he smell

Very bad.

Edited November 3, 2008 by steveromagnino

[Bangyai]

Thaksin has no plan to seek royal pardon yet: spokesman

Pongthep Thepkanchana, a personal spokesman of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said Sunday that Thaksin has no plan to seek a royal pardon yet.

Pongthep said Thaksin so far has no plan to submit a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a royal pardon for his conviction and two-year imprisonment in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Source: The Nation - 02 November 2008

backpedaling is Thaksin's forte'.... whether it's applying for political asylum... defending himself in court... or requesting a Royal Pardon... throw out a plan or intention onto the media and then when it gets slaughtered... backpedal and say it was misunderstood... honest mistake... etc.

Er...perhaps , but not in this instance. More like you and the press jumping the gun. His

actual words did not request a pardon .Nor at any time did he ' beg ' for royal kindness / forgiveness. This is all just silly spin. Of course, this is a forum of opinion, and you have yours like everyone else but in this case your opinion does not represent fact. And neither is this post pro Thaksin. The point is that it is not necessary to add anti Thaksin spin to everything in order to talk about him. Look at the title of this thread which replaced the original one. Hardly factual.

[TAWP]

(So TAWP, I guess I am the member of your little club! - don't worry, I won't waste your time posting further in this thread, so please don't let facts and straight dope get in the way of the objectivivty of NBT)

I think you read my comment backwards.

I enjoy your comments on this and other threads. Well balanced and not a radical supporter of either side.

My posts was in regards to those that claim that they do not support Thaksin (but have yet to write anything against him) but litterly see PAD is the four hourse-men of the apocalypse and often write in regards how bad they are. If they are balanced in their views, as I would say at least a few is in this forum you included, they should be able to counter points from both sides. They however remain quite when a staunch Thaksin lover posts odd loving rants on how everything was great under The Leader. Therefor one can only conclude one thing...

Again, this was not aimed to you, rather the opposite.

[Bangyai]

^^ No progress whatsoever, its just making an example of one person. (Unless its 30 years for every miscreant in Thailand). Everyone ielse just carries on with their dirty deals and scams.

However as we're now rewriting the penal code, why not death sentences for all the Shinawatra clan and their family pets ? That'll learn 'em.

Agreed, how about the death sentance for any Thai politician who has ever had their hand in the till....postdated of course. That'll learn 'em. Mind you...wouldn't be many left after such a cull ?

[grandpops]

Which nicely balances the Pro-goverrnment STATIONS

that also deliver much wrong information.

ying-yang, left-right, up-down, good-bad.

Can't have one without the other.

I prefer the NBT. They tell the truth with evidence in a calm manner, unlike the ASTV.

NBT are so unbaised they bend over and take it while trying not to make PAD seem like idiots (very ahrd to do). But this is not enough for the PAD crazies, by their bizaree outlook if you are not advcoating the overthrow of the government you must be evil.

If NBT put things as truthfully as the world;s media they would be condemned by the bulk of the press in Thailand:

here are some quotes from world media:

CNN

http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/tag/dan-rivers/

they[PAD] want nothing less than the overthrow of the entire political system. Their argument goes something like this: the vast majority of voters are poor, uneducated farmers who are susceptible to corruption by Thaksin and his allies, therefore we should abandon democracy to prevent this corruption

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/democracy/news/a...jectid=10531139

But the PAD has nothing to do with democracy. In fact, it claims that the ballot box gives too much weight to the ill-educated rural poor, whose votes can easily be "bought" (that is, won) with promises of government largesse.

The so-called People's Alliance for Democracy proposes an audaciously undemocratic "new politics" whereby most members of parliament would be appointed. Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, Geneva

The insurgents still style themselves as the "People's Alliance for Democracy," but this time some of their leaders are explicit in calling for just the opposite: the restoration of a full monarchy or a military-backed autocracy. Washington Post

What his [samak's] opponents, who come under the misleading banner of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), want is a mandate on demand, by theft. Straits Times

Even though the PAD's very name includes the word democracy, many of its supporters are skeptical of electoral politics. Time

The rebel groups are trying to roll back the results of last December's general elections and reinstall rule by an urban elite traditionally backed by the Thai armed forces. Irish Times

An alliance of street protesters and a reactionary elite. Financial Times

The latest ideologue [sondhi] who promises to fix their country's democracy by -- once again -- breaking it. Wall Street Journal

What the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) did on August 26 … was a putsch. La Stampa

Authoritarian rabble … the woefully misnamed People's Alliance for Democracy … a gruesome bunch of reactionary businessmen, generals and aristocrats. Economist

The PAD leadership is no collection of spotless democrats. The Independent (London)

The group's name appears to be a misnomer as it is neither populist nor does it want representative democracy. Al-Jazeera

That is pretty unanimous.

Are you suggesting we should be taking note of these comic rags and their ill thought out opinions?

Until everybody realises that ASTV is the only organ of truth and righteousness on the planet there will never be peace.

Why should we listen when we can clap our little clappers to drown out anything we don't like to hear.

Edited November 3, 2008 by grandpops

[Bangyai]

Everyone ielse just carries on with their dirty deals and scams.

That is absolutely not true. The government is now under a lot more scrutiny than ever, it's nearly impossible to hide anything as there are informants ready to pass any juicy information to both sides, yet the number of scandals has been very very low for the past two years.

During this year one big questionable project, buses for Bangkok, was completley scrapped, and there are only two more potential scams in the making - price fixing for rice and longan and corn. There was a lot of pressure on rice policy and it has been significantly trimmed, and longan/corn deal might not even realise.

In Thaksin days it was a scandal a day, like a clock.

There is some truth in this but the corruption is still there albeit at a lower level. Clearly people are going to have to be very careful about covering their tracks in future. Sadly, corruption has many faces. You stamp it out at one level and it pops up at another. If you look at Thaksins extra judicial killings of drug dealers you can see that although it had an impact there were still those for whom the lure of easy money was and is worth the risk.

When I arrived in Thailand a long time ago, graft was the order of the day. Always has been and is likely to remain so. The difference is Thailands GDP which is obviously a lot higher now than it was 30 years ago and affords much richer pickings. Where there's a will there's a way.

[Bangyai]

Below are some photographs from the demonstration prior to Thaksin's phone call that didn't make it into the press...

Hmmmm, got the upper hand on the PAD grannies here !!

Would have been nice to see those pictures again without having to back up.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Bangyai

[Plus]

Everyone ielse just carries on with their dirty deals and scams.

That is absolutely not true. The government is now under a lot more scrutiny than ever, it's nearly impossible to hide anything as there are informants ready to pass any juicy information to both sides, yet the number of scandals has been very very low for the past two years.

During this year one big questionable project, buses for Bangkok, was completley scrapped, and there are only two more potential scams in the making - price fixing for rice and longan and corn. There was a lot of pressure on rice policy and it has been significantly trimmed, and longan/corn deal might not even realise.

In Thaksin days it was a scandal a day, like a clock.

There is some truth in this but the corruption is still there albeit at a lower level. Clearly people are going to have to be very careful about covering their tracks in future. Sadly, corruption has many faces. You stamp it out at one level and it pops up at another. If you look at Thaksins extra judicial killings of drug dealers you can see that although it had an impact there were still those for whom the lure of easy money was and is worth the risk.

When I arrived in Thailand a long time ago, graft was the order of the day. Always has been and is likely to remain so. The difference is Thailands GDP which is obviously a lot higher now than it was 30 years ago and affords much richer pickings. Where there's a will there's a way.

I'm really sympathetic to your attempts to paint it as a bad and dangerous thing, but at least the basic agreement that corruption has been reduced is there. Thx.

[Bangyai]

Thaksin call fails to sway critics

Reference to royal mercy seen as 'presumptuous, disrespectful'

.

Source: The Nation - 03 November 2008

From the Nation eh ? Well thats a surprise.

[Bangyai]

Thaksin, believed to be making the call from Hong Kong, said he was suffering from karma not of his making.

Chamlong Warns Thaksin Not to Distort Karma Teaching

Presumably because he himself is trying to corner the market ?