Dell Xps M1530 Static Shocks...

[The Mask]

Since I have started using my Dell XPS M1530 in Thailand (Originally purchased in UK) it has been giving me tingling sensations when i touch the edges of the laptop, it feels like a very minor static shock. I searched around the internet and this effect seems to happen when there is no earth.

Has anyone experienced this or have any potential solutions?.

Right now I am plugging the three pin dell plug into a toshino power surge protected extension cord which plugs into the thai socket.

[malcolmswaine]

i get the same thing from a couple of my workstations ... trying to plug anything into the back and making contact with the chassis is asking for a nasty bite. I'm suprised nothings fried yet to be honest ... not a lot of point in breaking out the anti-static wristbands

[Crossy]

My Dell laptop bites hard if there is no ground.

Check your traily and outlet for ground, it doesn't need a perfect ground to prevent the tingle (caused by leakage in the mains inlet filters).

[The Mask]

Is this static effect damaging my laptop?

[pampal]

I'm getting the same thing in my Fujitsu laptop, def. related to grounding.

[Khun Jack]

Static electricity is generated by friction of non conductive materials like nylon etc, but this is a current leakage from the power adapter or from a external connected monitor or device like a tv set to earth through your body.

Grounding is the only solution.

[Sakeopete]

Most likely poor or no ground at the plug. We rented a house while our new one was being built and it hag 3 prong sockets however I was feeling current from my laptop, desktop, DVD player etc. I pulled the cover off the outlet and you guessed it no ground attached, actually only 2 wires. Now in my new house everything is fine no current leaks but I supervised the installation myself to make sure it was done correctly. Keep in mind how dangerous it is as my first year in Thailand I received a serious shock from the electric shower in the condo I rented in Bangkok.

[The Mask]

Most likely poor or no ground at the plug. We rented a house while our new one was being built and it hag 3 prong sockets however I was feeling current from my laptop, desktop, DVD player etc. I pulled the cover off the outlet and you guessed it no ground attached, actually only 2 wires. Now in my new house everything is fine no current leaks but I supervised the installation myself to make sure it was done correctly. Keep in mind how dangerous it is as my first year in Thailand I received a serious shock from the electric shower in the condo I rented in Bangkok.

Is it possible to buy an extension cord which is grounded?, would this solve the problem?

[stumonster]

if you are in a house you have the chance to install your own grounding rod.

if you are in an apartment , you will just have to live with it

it shouldn't hurt your laptop , but it is a constant annoyance in Thailand.

Is it possible to buy an extension cord which is grounded?, would this solve the problem?

no

the ground needs to be a metal post ( preferably copper ) embedded into the soil and then connected to the earth pin of the socket.

a bit of googling will explain to you "earthing" of electrical circuits

Edited November 3, 2008 by stumonster

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

Get a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) and not only do you have power even the mains go out but you'll also have a certain protection against surges, voltage stabilization AND the "tingling" will be gone, too.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[wxpwzrd]

Hi

Get a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) and not only do you have power even the mains go out but you'll also have a certain protection against surges, voltage stabilization AND the "tingling" will be gone, too.

Best regards.....

Thanh

Except that the UPS I see are all three-prong and require the ground. Without the legitimate ground you will have no protection from surges as I understand.

[wxpwzrd]

And it isn't just for laptops lol. I get it from my laptop, my True satellite box, and my LCD TV. The only way I can get even a little lucky is to keep my feet off the floor and on a small area rug i have next to my desk. Sometimes that doesn't even help.

[Crossy]

If you don't have grounded outlets have a look here for some ideas http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

[h90]

Hi

Get a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) and not only do you have power even the mains go out but you'll also have a certain protection against surges, voltage stabilization AND the "tingling" will be gone, too.

Best regards.....

Thanh

Negative: UPS can not replace grounding the wire+some of the cheap UPS can kill devices.....

No solution in that case.

[wxpwzrd]

If you don't have grounded outlets have a look here for some ideas http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

Well that was an amusing page... Now granted, I am not an electrician but, I don't know how safe I would feel with a ground post a couple feet from my feet.

[h90]

only grounded plug helps....

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

well i use one of these adaptor-plugs 2-to-3 prong as my outlets are also without ground. The UPS plugs into the adaptor and the adaptor into the outlet.

Without the UPS i get shocks from the PC case and anything connected to it (even the bloody web cam or my Nokia when i have connected it via the USB cable!) it doesn't even matter which way the plug is in.

With the UPS however there are no shocks anymore. Maybe it depends on the UPS? I use a "Leonics" which is a pretty good one.

Regarding the surge protection - could be that it relies on the grounding, to be honest i don't know - but ever since i had this particular UPS i had no problems at all with surges, i have the PC, monitor, printer, router, a couple of VGA devices (splitter and converter) as well as the home stereo running via the UPS, and none of those shocks me or goes down in a thunderstorm, even a heavy one.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[markg]

I have the same problem with my Desktop computer. As has been pointed out, it's 'mains leakage' and not static electricity from your own body.

The ONLY way to get rid of it, as has been said on here, is to ground or earth the whole house. This is NOT easy to do in a house that has already been built.

Houses in Thailand more often than not, have just two wires, a positve and a negative. They really REALLY should have a 3rd earthing wire. That earthing wire is connected to all electrical sockets and then to a spike, or spikes, stuck in the ground.

You with me so far?

Ok, if your electrical socket doesnt have the 3rd grounding wire, then your house is not grounded. Mine isnt. Using a 3 pronged extension cord or a UPS will not work, because your house is not grounded.

A UPS will still protect against power surges and power cuts, because it takes up excess (and slack/cuts) by using a battery. That's right, often nothing more than a small lead/acid 'car' battery. But it still aint earthed.

Now then, in some houses, you can earth against metal water pipes or the central heating system. However, in Thailand, the pipes are often plastic, and we dont have central heating.

I know of no quick fire solution to retro-fitting an earthing system to your house. The fact remains that either the whole house, or the computer individually, need a 3rd wire which is grounded.

If anyone knows a solution to this, then i'd be willing to listen. I can get quite a shock off my computer chassis.

[SnareBear]

Try this:

1. Pull out the plug, turn it 180 degrees and insert it again. Could remove some of the shocks.

2. If that doesnt work, then replace all of your cords with grounded (3 lead) cords. But be sure to check the cords with a multimeter at the store, because some grounded plugs still only use 2 cords inside the cable. Check that all three pins are connected. Buy a 3 to 2 adapter so you can fit the grounded plug into a non grounded outlet. Solder a cable to the grounds of the adapter and mount the other end to any big metal part of your house/apartment, such as window frame etc.

3. If that doesnt work, then connect the grounds cable to anything of metal dug down in the garden. In some cases the phone company has already dug down a grounding cable, just attach it to that one. Thats how I solved my problem. Last option is to dig down a earth spike yourself, but you have to dig pretty deep, around two meters down.

OBSERVE: dont play around with this unless you know what you are doing. You can get lethal shocks.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

As i said, it DOES work with a UPS, probably just depends on the type of UPS? I can even explain WHY it works.

Without UPS and grounding, there is the possibility for a current to travel between phase ("live") and earth because the transformer is usually grounded, i.e. the circuit is closed by having something (human body) between phase and ground.

However if you use a UPS, the circuit is closed between the phase and neutral of the mains by the transformer in the UPS. The circuit which the computer is connected to is an independent one, "generated" in the UPS itself and hence completely independent from the outside transformer or power station, hence no current will flow between the phase of the "UPS generated" circuit and ground! You can actually grab the phase that comes out of the UPS without getting a shock, however grabbing the neutral from the UPS at the same time is NOT advisable

Now as i said this depends on the UPS, there are at least two different types that i personally know of, and this works only with the second type (mine is one of those), as there are:

1) One type that "puts the mains through" as long as the mains is active, meaning you have "mains power" on the UPS's outlets. At the same time the battery inside is charged. Touching the phase that comes out of such UPS gives you a shock because it's the one from the mains, and also an unearthed computer case on such UPS will still shock you.

In case the mains goes out, the UPS switches to battery power and in such time you will NOT get a shock when touching the PC or even the phase coming out of the UPS.

2) The second type is permanently on battery. Here the mains is only for charging the battery, the output of the UPS is always generated by the UPS itself, via the battery. Input- and output circuits are "galvanically separated" (i don't know the precise definition in English, only "galvanisch getrennt" in my native language German) and hence there is no connection between the output and the mains. Touching a PC case or the output phase of such UPS will NOT result in a shock, still a faulty electric device (which has "phase on the case") will trip the breaker, but only the breaker in the UPS (a simple fuse). This will function even if there is no grounding on the mains!

My own UPS is a Leonics, which is of the second type and i use it over a year already, i have no grounding in my room and i never get shocked by anything connected to the UPS. So do not say "a UPS won't work" as long as you didn't try this type of UPS, because this DOES work.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[fridgemagnet]

Interesting - I have the same problem, so just now have checked with a multimeter, and found 1.5 volts sitting on the neutral in my

apartment.

In Ireland, where I last lived, we had the same system of power generation, in which the neutral is tied to earth - thus the 2 wires, instead of three. You still need an RCD (residual current device) to be safe tho.

When this problem arose, not infrequently, it was sorted out by the electricity company. It was not a problem with the house earth rod ( stuck in the soil outside), but a problem in the line leading to the house. That is, the rogue voltage was on the neutral line coming to the house.

God knows how you get that sorted here. Thanh Bkk's answer seems the most practical - sidestep the problem.

[m02]

Is this static effect damaging my laptop?

Grounding techniques aren't rocket science as they say, and for emergency or temporaty needs it can be easily accomplished with any type of wire that will provide a unbroken connection between whatever appliance is concerned and the ground. But first try SnareBear's advice of turning the plug around, because sometimes that is all it takes - at least it worked with the old French electrical system in Vientiane, and if faced with that situation then it is not recommeded to do the following which works fine with electrical systems in the US and Thailand.

Example of emergency grounding procedure for computers: Take a two foot or so length of rebar (the steel rod used in concrete forms); clean off the major corrosion by scraping or sandpapering; find a moist area close to window next to what ever you want to ground; hammer the rebar into the ground; run any kind of wire from the appliance, out the window to the rebar; clean the end of the wire and wrap it around the top of the rebar and cover with electrical tape; clean the end of the wire next to the appliance, make a hook and attach via anything that is attached to the appliance's frame or grounding wires. If draping the hook through a hole in the frame, such as in the back of a desktop computer, be careful it doesn't touch anything inside... An alligator clip works better than a hook, but the point of this is that grounding in this type of situation does not require hard connections, although they are preferred - but it does have to be a clean connection, as this is simple bleed off of built up charges, not the handling of large currents. For that matter, as long as the rebar's contact with the earth is good, and the grounding wire's contact with the grounding rod is good, the wire doesn't even need to be insulated, since you won't get a shock from touching it as your skin has a higher resistance than the wire. Because the actual current is minimal you can use wire as thin as interior telephone wire.

Please note that I started this comment with the statement that this advice was in reference to emergency or temporary needs. However; I've seen such setups work for years with occasional replacement of corroded rods and attachment areas. If the wire is just draped on the frame, then sometimes the hook and the area of attachment need to be cleaned (sandpapered) and the hook moved around a bit to make a connection. For connecting to laptops, the screw connections for cable housings work fine as they are part of the grounding circuit - a small alligator clip works well in that case.

Regarding Mask's question regarding whether or not a charge build up can damage a computer, the answer is yes, it can. It might not, but why run the risk, or put up with the annoyance, when it is easily taken care of.