Buying A House Through A Company Or 30 Year Lease?

[dsfbrit]

Many thanks to everyone for all their help and advice regarding this topic.

And now the million dollar question;

Due to recent world events in the financial industry and the subsequent affect on exchange rates my potential house/land purchase has just increased by nearly one million baht. Unfortunately, this now makes a really good deal not quite so attractive.

My original plan was (funds permitting) to demolish the existing single story house (still in good order but a little old and definitely not my style/taste) and rebuild a nice two story house. This plan was based primarily on the excellent plot and location.

Probably impossible for you to comment without knowing more about the property and area, but in view of all the negative feedback regarding buying land I am now seriously reviewing the following options;

1. Pull out of the purchase and lose £6,500.00 deposit and continue renting?
   
2. Continue with the purchase and pay £15,000.00 extra due to exchange rate fluctuations. Since the purchase price was agreed and budgeted for, the sterling exchange rate has dropped by 22%!
   
3. Unfortunately no flexibility as the contract clearly states "Balance to be paid in December".
   

Should anyone have access to a crystal ball and can offer some advice regarding exchange rates (Sterling) for December please reply urgently!!!!!!!

Any other views/ideas would also be appreciated.

Most people on TV have the old saying 'only invest in Thailand what you can afford to walk away from'. If you are spending money that wont ruin your life if it goes pearshaped, then what does it matter. Go for it... take a risk... its only money after all.

On the December deadline thing, you may be able to get your lawyer to convince the vendor he may lose the sale unless a compromise date could be agreed. Hey everyone knows there is a credit crunch on etc... worth a try.

I also suspect if you continue to rent for now, you may lose little money in the long run - if you buy in 12 months time (say) it would give the Baht a chance to weaken against the pound. It was 51 yesterday. When I bought my place it was 73!!!

This Baht exchange rate is hurting Thailand big time - especially tourism.

[thaiwanderer]

Regarding the mortgage idea, can that not be voided by operation of section 1469 of the civil & commercial code?(as an agreement made between husband and wife)

In any case, whether married or not how do you register such a mortgage whilst at the same time confirming to the official that you have no interest in the land?

Actually we call it a mortgage here but in fact does the wife just makes a loan with you and gives the title deed in guarantee for the loan.Nowhere is stated that the money is used to buy the land.

So the loan is not registered,the loan could be voided and the 'security' is a farang holding a piece of paper? Don't think i get it.

[thaiwanderer]

Many thanks to everyone for all their help and advice regarding this topic.

And now the million dollar question;

Due to recent world events in the financial industry and the subsequent affect on exchange rates my potential house/land purchase has just increased by nearly one million baht. Unfortunately, this now makes a really good deal not quite so attractive.

My original plan was (funds permitting) to demolish the existing single story house (still in good order but a little old and definitely not my style/taste) and rebuild a nice two story house. This plan was based primarily on the excellent plot and location.

Probably impossible for you to comment without knowing more about the property and area, but in view of all the negative feedback regarding buying land I am now seriously reviewing the following options;

1. Pull out of the purchase and lose £6,500.00 deposit and continue renting?
   
2. Continue with the purchase and pay £15,000.00 extra due to exchange rate fluctuations. Since the purchase price was agreed and budgeted for, the sterling exchange rate has dropped by 22%!
   
3. Unfortunately no flexibility as the contract clearly states "Balance to be paid in December".
   

Should anyone have access to a crystal ball and can offer some advice regarding exchange rates (Sterling) for December please reply urgently!!!!!!!

Any other views/ideas would also be appreciated.

all depends on appetite for risk, future unknowns, your personal requirements for the property etc etc as you know

any chance of paying part / all the remainder offshore?

[basjke]

Regarding the mortgage idea, can that not be voided by operation of section 1469 of the civil & commercial code?(as an agreement made between husband and wife)

In any case, whether married or not how do you register such a mortgage whilst at the same time confirming to the official that you have no interest in the land?

Actually we call it a mortgage here but in fact does the wife just makes a loan with you and gives the title deed in guarantee for the loan.Nowhere is stated that the money is used to buy the land.

So the loan is not registered,the loan could be voided and the 'security' is a farang holding a piece of paper? Don't think i get it.

Where did I write that the loan is not registered?What i said in my last post is that in the registration is nowhere written that the money is used to buy the land.But the land is used to secure the loan.

[thaiwanderer]

Regarding the mortgage idea, can that not be voided by operation of section 1469 of the civil & commercial code?(as an agreement made between husband and wife)

In any case, whether married or not how do you register such a mortgage whilst at the same time confirming to the official that you have no interest in the land?

Actually we call it a mortgage here but in fact does the wife just makes a loan with you and gives the title deed in guarantee for the loan.Nowhere is stated that the money is used to buy the land.

So the loan is not registered,the loan could be voided and the 'security' is a farang holding a piece of paper? Don't think i get it.

Where did I write that the loan is not registered?What i said in my last post is that in the registration is nowhere written that the money is used to buy the land.But the land is used to secure the loan.

Maybe I am misunderstanding.

Are you saying the security is that the Chanote is physically given to the Farang husband and/or the loan is recorded on the back of the chanote?

[basjke]

Regarding the mortgage idea, can that not be voided by operation of section 1469 of the civil & commercial code?(as an agreement made between husband and wife)

In any case, whether married or not how do you register such a mortgage whilst at the same time confirming to the official that you have no interest in the land?

Actually we call it a mortgage here but in fact does the wife just makes a loan with you and gives the title deed in guarantee for the loan.Nowhere is stated that the money is used to buy the land.

So the loan is not registered,the loan could be voided and the 'security' is a farang holding a piece of paper? Don't think i get it.

Where did I write that the loan is not registered?What i said in my last post is that in the registration is nowhere written that the money is used to buy the land.But the land is used to secure the loan.

Maybe I am misunderstanding.

Are you saying the security is that the Chanote is physically given to the Farang husband and/or the loan is recorded on the back of the chanote?

The name of the foreigner will be added on the backside of the chanut with the notice that he loaned xxxxxxxx baht to the owner of the land and the foreigner will keep the chanote in his possession until the loan is paid back.Same will be done to the original copy of the chanote that stays at the landoffice at all time.So the owner can never sell the land as long as the loan isn't paid back.If the owner of the land faults on the loan the land will be sold and the proceedings will go to the foreigner and deducted from the amount loaned.

[jitagon]

Many thanks to everyone for all their help and advice regarding this topic.

And now the million dollar question;

Due to recent world events in the financial industry and the subsequent affect on exchange rates my potential house/land purchase has just increased by nearly one million baht. Unfortunately, this now makes a really good deal not quite so attractive.

My original plan was (funds permitting) to demolish the existing single story house (still in good order but a little old and definitely not my style/taste) and rebuild a nice two story house. This plan was based primarily on the excellent plot and location.

Probably impossible for you to comment without knowing more about the property and area, but in view of all the negative feedback regarding buying land I am now seriously reviewing the following options;

1. Pull out of the purchase and lose £6,500.00 deposit and continue renting?
   
2. Continue with the purchase and pay £15,000.00 extra due to exchange rate fluctuations. Since the purchase price was agreed and budgeted for, the sterling exchange rate has dropped by 22%!
   
3. Unfortunately no flexibility as the contract clearly states "Balance to be paid in December".
   

Should anyone have access to a crystal ball and can offer some advice regarding exchange rates (Sterling) for December please reply urgently!!!!!!!

Any other views/ideas would also be appreciated.

Oh Dear God, here you are back again, and with new news that the little plot of land already had a little house on it, quote: in good order but a bit old and definately not to your style or 'taste'.

And here you are again still pulling your bloody feathers out over something so simple. If you were/are concerned about 'ownership' laws in this country, why don't you get a set and just use what very little imagination you appear have, find an architect/builder and renovate the pre existing fundamentally sound house (again, dear god, how much would that cost?) 'to your liking'. And you would therefore not be 'risking', by whichever means of 'ownership', more than you seem willing to er, risk 'losing'.

You've been on this forum, not giving the full facts of your proposed purchase/lease, and you're still coming back and whining for more information.

Tell you what. Go back to your council house in bloody Basingstoke, tell me where the property is, and I'll happily renovate it myself. Through my company. Enough already.

Edited November 14, 2008 by jitagon

[pattayamichael]

Many thanks to everyone for all their help and advice regarding this topic.

And now the million dollar question;

Due to recent world events in the financial industry and the subsequent affect on exchange rates my potential house/land purchase has just increased by nearly one million baht. Unfortunately, this now makes a really good deal not quite so attractive.

My original plan was (funds permitting) to demolish the existing single story house (still in good order but a little old and definitely not my style/taste) and rebuild a nice two story house. This plan was based primarily on the excellent plot and location.

Probably impossible for you to comment without knowing more about the property and area, but in view of all the negative feedback regarding buying land I am now seriously reviewing the following options;

1. Pull out of the purchase and lose £6,500.00 deposit and continue renting?
   
2. Continue with the purchase and pay £15,000.00 extra due to exchange rate fluctuations. Since the purchase price was agreed and budgeted for, the sterling exchange rate has dropped by 22%!
   
3. Unfortunately no flexibility as the contract clearly states "Balance to be paid in December".
   

Should anyone have access to a crystal ball and can offer some advice regarding exchange rates (Sterling) for December please reply urgently!!!!!!!

Any other views/ideas would also be appreciated.

Oh Dear God, here you are back again, and with new news that the little plot of land already had a little house on it, quote: in good order but a bit old and definately not to your style or 'taste'.

And here you are again still pulling your bloody feathers out over something so simple. If you were/are concerned about 'ownership' laws in this country, why don't you get a set and just use what very little imagination you appear have, find an architect/builder and renovate the pre existing fundamentally sound house (again, dear god, how much would that cost?) 'to your liking'. And you would therefore not be 'risking', by whichever means of 'ownership', more than you seem willing to er, risk 'losing'.

You've been on this forum, not giving the full facts of your proposed purchase/lease, and you're still coming back and whining for more information.

Tell you what. Go back to your council house in bloody Basingstoke, tell me where the property is, and I'll happily renovate it myself. Through my company. Enough already.

Firstly a big thank you to everyone for all their help and advice.

I mentioned in my original post that this was the first time I had used a forum service and until now I have found it to be both friendly and informative.

Anyway with regard to the above posting from jitagon which in my opinion is quite unnecessary and highly offensive I would reply as follows;

1. Your comments "Here you are back again" and "Here you are again" suggest you are following this topic very closely. What I don't understand is why an 'expert' like yourself is wasting his time reading this topic if you already know everything?
   
2. From the numerous and varied replies to this topic it would appear that everyone has their own and very different views as to the best way to buy land. This would suggest that the set of 'Ownership Laws' mentioned in your reply must be in very short supply!
   
3. I really don't understand your babbling on about "find an architect/builder" and "renovate the pre existing fundamentally sound house". I have already mentioned that I was planning to demolish the single story house and rebuild a nice two story house and despite not being an 'expert' like you, I do realise that I would need the services of both architect and builder which incidentally I already have.
   
4. Your additional sarcastic comments following on from the above "again, dear god, how much would that cost" and your somewhat flippant remarks about how much I am willing to risk losing, suggests that I am wasting everyone's time as these amounts are in your opinion clearly insignificant. Congratulations, not only an 'expert' but a 'wealthy expert'.
   
5. The additional comments about "not giving full facts" and "whining for more information" are bad enough but your final comments "go back to your bloody council house in Basingstoke" is extremely worrying and you really do need to seek urgent medical advice.
   
6. Just for your information I had an extremely successful business and was fortunate to be able to retire at forty eight. My home was a large five bedroom detached house in London with additional homes on the coast.
   
7. Just because someone is asking questions suggesting they are trying to save money doesn't mean they don't have any!
   
8. Initially your response really pissed me off, then I realised that you and people like you (you just have to be from the U.K.) are one of the main reasons I left the U.K. in the first place. Fortunately, you are the first stereotypical aggressive asshol_e that I have come across since moving to Thailand, and long may it continue.
   
9. Now what we all want to know is.......... what happened to you in the council house in Basingstoke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   

[mazd2]

Oh Dear God, here you are back again, and with new news that the little plot of land already had a little house on it, quote: in good order but a bit old and definately not to your style or 'taste'.

And here you are again still pulling your bloody feathers out over something so simple. If you were/are concerned about 'ownership' laws in this country, why don't you get a set and just use what very little imagination you appear have, find an architect/builder and renovate the pre existing fundamentally sound house (again, dear god, how much would that cost?) 'to your liking'. And you would therefore not be 'risking', by whichever means of 'ownership', more than you seem willing to er, risk 'losing'.

You've been on this forum, not giving the full facts of your proposed purchase/lease, and you're still coming back and whining for more information.

Tell you what. Go back to your council house in bloody Basingstoke, tell me where the property is, and I'll happily renovate it myself. Through my company. Enough already.

Heavy.

[thaiwanderer]

Regarding the mortgage idea, can that not be voided by operation of section 1469 of the civil & commercial code?(as an agreement made between husband and wife)

In any case, whether married or not how do you register such a mortgage whilst at the same time confirming to the official that you have no interest in the land?

Actually we call it a mortgage here but in fact does the wife just makes a loan with you and gives the title deed in guarantee for the loan.Nowhere is stated that the money is used to buy the land.

So the loan is not registered,the loan could be voided and the 'security' is a farang holding a piece of paper? Don't think i get it.

Where did I write that the loan is not registered?What i said in my last post is that in the registration is nowhere written that the money is used to buy the land.But the land is used to secure the loan.

Maybe I am misunderstanding.

Are you saying the security is that the Chanote is physically given to the Farang husband and/or the loan is recorded on the back of the chanote?

The name of the foreigner will be added on the backside of the chanut with the notice that he loaned xxxxxxxx baht to the owner of the land and the foreigner will keep the chanote in his possession until the loan is paid back.Same will be done to the original copy of the chanote that stays at the landoffice at all time.So the owner can never sell the land as long as the loan isn't paid back.If the owner of the land faults on the loan the land will be sold and the proceedings will go to the foreigner and deducted from the amount loaned.

1. The registration in the Thai wife's name will occur before registration of the mortgage and after the monies have been transferred.

2. Upon that registration the Farang husband may well be obliged to formally declare he has no interest in the land.

3. The local land office official may refuse to register the mortgage in any event.

4. Even if registered, enforcing the sale to recoup would I understand be a sale within 180 days quite possibly not recovering anything like the monies originally paid.

5. The mortgage may be voided due to it being between husband and wife.

[BWPattaya]

My mate first moved here 14 years ago and would never buy because he didn't want to lose everything if the Thai government closed down all of the companies that owned property for foreigners. He now wishes that he had bought, using a company, years ago. It would have saved a fortune renting, prevented having to move every time a landlord put the rent up too high, and overall would have been far cheaper.

I used to rent, then worked out that the rent I would pay for four years, on the last house I rented, would be the same amount as a new house I was looking at.

So, I bought a house in a company name thinking that if I lost it after four years it would have cost me nothing. I have lived here now for five and half years so I am in profit. If I walk away I haven't lost. However, I have just had an offer to buy it from me at double the price I paid. If I sell it I am well in profit, but then I have to decide what to do next. Decisions, decisions!

One other point that I would like to make though, regarding many posts, is that meny people comment on buying propery in a wife's name. Ignoring the obvious risks about separation or divorce, what about those who do not have a wife? Perhaps they prefer to stay single and enjoy the good life, or they prefer the company of men.

Finally, those who say "buy a condo" forget that some of us don't want to be in a building cooped up like hens.

[Khun Jean]

So what you say is that in the last 14 years it was better to buy in a company name.

What has that to do with 2008 and further.

It is now much more difficult to buy in a company name then before, and enforcing laws is still something that can happen tomorrow, next month, next year or maybe even never.

Does not change the fact that starting a company for the purpose of owning land is at all times illegal.

And having something illegal is never a good basis for a 'secured' way of 'owning'.

[Gary A]

I'd certainly avoid the company route. Besides being illegal, you will have to pay an accountant and file tax returns on a company that does no business. If the government ever decides to enforce the law, it will cost as much to dissolve the company as it did to form it. The lease route from your wife may not be fool proof but it is likely the best way to go. After the thirty years, the house will at least belong to your wife.

or her and her new husband Just kidding GaryA. I don't like any of the options. I think you have said before its best to buy a condo in your own name or rent? I agree. Pattayamichael has committed to buying this house so he has to choose from, in my opinion, options that are equally bad.

The company route, as dodgy as it is, is still is not that bad compared to the alternatives. I think all options are unacceptable and should be avoided.

I am keeping the company for the time being. I have had Sunbelt do some initial work for me to change to a Usufruct. As I got involved in the 'nitty gritty' of all this, I have turned much 'colder' on the idea.

Buying a condo in your own name BEFORE you are married is indeed the best option. I don't like a Usufruct because it violates my rule number two for life in Thailand. That rule is to never be worth more dead than alive. A good friend of mine maybe has the best deal. He had a Buddhist wedding with his long time girlfriend and has his name on her house chanote as the mortgage holder. He is NOT legally married. According to his lawyer he can will this mortgage to whomever he wishes. I have never checked the legalities of this but he says it is legal. His girlfriend and her family are satisfied that they are married and his mortgage is legal because the marriage is not legal.