Will Thailand Ever Make Any Progress On Anything

[PeaceBlondie]

breakneck speed at which the entire cosmos is changing

Is it? Where? In the West?

In 3rd world countries that are catching up with Thailand?

Pardon my hybole; I was hyperbolating. Why, just two months ago, Wall Street became the naked laughingstock of the world. This month, Americans elected a black man president, and Thaksin lost his visa and his wife. It that isn't breakneck speed, send me to the moon.

Compared to how fast Thai culture changed in the prior centuries, the past four decades have broken some necks. Remember the USSR and the Berlin wall? Remember when the West had less of a habit of invading Muslim countries? I remember 3 speed shifts on V8 Fords.

[polecat]

Other than Red Bull (and this is questionable) I can not think of another brand that has world wide recognition. But I can from other Asian nation such as... Acer/GIANT (Taiwan) Samsung/LG (South Korea) & I am sure there are more examples.

Yeah, Proton from Malaysia; Beer Lao from Laos; er... those Cambodian T-shirts with "Beware Landmines" on them; Vietnamese spring rolls; Burmese maids; Filipino hotel bands; Indonesian Guaram cigarettes.

Thailand is the laughing stock of the region!

[Plus]

So what is a sign of progress? In what fields?

Other than Red Bull (and this is questionable) I can not think of another brand that has world wide recognition. But I can from other Asian nation such as... Acer/GIANT (Taiwan) Samsung/LG (South Korea) & I am sure there are more examples.

Thailand doesn't really need to have a strong, worldwide known brand. The world is flat, btw, every nation fits in it in some way, they complement, not copy each other. Thailand is doing just fine, for its size. They don't need to send people to the Moon or develop cutting edge biotechnology. There are other countries that can do that, and they need Thailand for something else.

Why, just two months ago, Wall Street became the naked laughingstock of the world.

Is that a progress? There are plenty of opinions out there that the world order as we know it has ended, that G7 nations are irrelevant, IMF and World Bank are lughable, and so on. We are enjoying the sunset of civilisation, not progress, as we know it.

This month, Americans elected a black man president

Yeah, good news, but why dismiss eight years under Bush - was THAT a sign of progress?

Compared to how fast Thai culture changed in the prior centuries, the past four decades have broken some necks. Remember the USSR and the Berlin wall?

Hmm, economically and politically Thailand is a completely different animal since then, too.

16 years on and Russia still can't find its place in the world. Has it made any significant progress? What will it do without petrodollars and foreign investment?

Are East Germans really that happy and integrated? Do they have something to show for these 16 years?

>>>

Former Taiwan president is on hunger strike in jail, being force fed. That's a progress - but not too far ahead of Thailand.

Koreans cut of their fingers because somebody ordered a wrong shipment of beef. Their BUddhist monks roam the streets armed with sticks like in a very bad b-movie. Is that a progress? Ok, they cleaned up the house somewhat, and they built a few international brands, but did it make them a better society?

Also, do people even think of Finns when they buy Nokia?

[MKAsok]

It is evident that Thailand has created a society that many here cannot stand to be away from, and amonth those a significant number are in Thailand to escape progress back in their home country.

Bravo GuestHouse. But I would have written progress as 'progress.'

[Dakhar]

"Thailand is doing just fine, for its size..."

Wow, imagine where Taiwan and Singapore would be today if they had this attitude.

[Plus]

So what do you think when you hear the name Taiwan? Ok, they have Acer, but otherwise it's a medium income country, the land of knockoffs and cheap computer parts soon to be completely overshadowed and absorbed by China.

And Singapore - apart from being nice and orderly - what have they got to show? Politically backward, culturally dull, boring place with highest rates of depression in the region.

SK got their own Korean cultural wave, similar to Japanese. Taiwan and Singapore do not lead in any area by comparison.

[Jingthing]

Singapore is a world class financial services powerhouse. The thing about Thailand, the sad thing for Thais (maybe not so bad for expats) is that the world economy is now intensely global, and overall Thailand is not keeping up the pace (the culture IS xenophobic and structurally still feudal) and as time passes, it will be even harder to catch up. So that leaves a dilemma, try to catch up, or go the Burma route.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Jingthing

[patklang]

livinginthailandos, welcome to ThaiVisa. I see this may be your first opening post. I did not notice that you told us how long you have been here, etc., but some of us who have been here a mere five or ten years may find your analysis overly simplistic. Yes, the problems in the south - about which I know virtually nothing - are at least a century old, reminding me of Northern Ireland and southern Mexico. But the Thais' inability to solve the problem may stem from their refusal to allow diversity, and that says a lot.

As for politics and corruption, it stinks. But the title is about progress, and how do we define it? This is a modern, industrialized country. With roads, trains, cars, electricity, mobile phones, computers, cars, TV, tc. There are still remote villages without these features, but increasingly less. Refering to Thailand as 3rd world, and comparing it to some war-torn African country, strikes me as pure nonsense, but you are welcome to your opinion.

Culture. Thainess. Education - don't get me started. That has not changed much, and that is holding the country back from becoming Texas or the British Midlands, thank God. Last night's funeral in Bangkok was one more reminder of how, thankfully, Thailand still has two feet back in the past, revering their tradition and history whilst arriving in a stretch limousine. Bless them all.

This is a great country. I even like the warts, if they are not herpes.

Thats a perfect post for me.well done

[Dakhar]

So what do you think when you hear the name Taiwan? Ok, they have Acer, but otherwise it's a medium income country, the land of knockoffs and cheap computer parts soon to be completely overshadowed and absorbed by China.

And Singapore - apart from being nice and orderly - what have they got to show? Politically backward, culturally dull, boring place with highest rates of depression in the region.

SK got their own Korean cultural wave, similar to Japanese. Taiwan and Singapore do not lead in any area by comparison.

What do I think when I hear the name Taiwan? Beautiful mountains, canyons, great food, excellent schools, every form of public transportation possible, a place rich in culture and the list can go on. The Taiwanese have a moto, "America makes it first, we make it better." So I would have to disagree the idea that it is a nation full of Knock Offs. The fact of the matter is, Taiwan has also become heavily invested in main land China. The fact that Taiwan will possibly be absorbed by China is really an advantage to both countries.

I think of respectful kids, I think of hard working students, smart women that love their kids more than life. I think of the family unit, where the men take care of their families etc etc.

I also think of some of the best mountain bikeing roads I have ever seen & some of the best mountain bikes I have ever seen. I think of the vast aray of quality goods. To think that Taiwan is full of cheap junk is pretty niave... if that is the case then why is it that salesmen in Thailand say, "This from China, No Good... This from Taiwan... better." Nope, Taiwan... for its size is an amazing place. Thailand has its pros too.... but it for sure is not in the production of quality goods, education etc.

Thailand could have the same acomplishments as Taiwan if only it had the leadership, and the desire to do so.

[polecat]

Thailand could have the same acomplishments as Taiwan if only it had the leadership, and the desire to do so.

Mountain bikes, respectful kids and good public transport?

Rock and roll!

[Plus]

Singapore is a financial power house, Taiwan has great mountain bikes - it has been that way for decades, it's not exactly the sign of progress - pulling away from Thailand. It's just maintaining status quo.

I'm not saying Thailand progresses really fast, I just commented on PB's "neckbreaking speed" or something. I don't see it - the west has been basically in stagnation for the past few years, and there has been no changes in Asian order of things. Ok, India and China are catching up with the rest of the world, but only economically, that's amazing but we shall see if this growth is sustainable. Only South Korea has been making really big splashes here.

[henryalleman]

Excuse me taking just a few of the points out of your post, but there is some flawed thinking that deserves being challenged. I hope you don't mind that I take up the challenge. We can always agree that we disagree.

You may never forget that Thailand is still a feudal society, mixed with Confucianism and Buddhism.

And it is well not to forget How can we? We are confronted by it, every single day.

Ad on this the root learning education system who make it impossible difficult for students to think for themselves. Also the incestuous political cast who only think about their own interests is a great handicap but not one restricted to Thailand. In every western country, political parties try to find new young politicians staff and prepare them to take over from them. That's a gross misrepresentation of how western politics works I was political active so I know what I'm talking about. In continental Europe an MP or PM is always tributary to the party. A politician can only be so important as the party allows him/her to be. Most of the time the chairman/women is elected by the members, and its normal procudere that after loosing the elctions there is an renewal of political staff. Thats why they are always on the look out for young people with new ideas. Thats why most of MP' are 30 and 40 years old. Even ministers are seldom over 60. Political crocodiles are put aside by them.BTW where are this young men and women in the ruling PPP. In Continental European parties is a constant internal strugle for power between the different factions, ideas and political views. Is this better? I don't pas judgement on it. But this has the result why an incestuos cast of old crocodiles who clamp on to power is impossible. Also this is not happening in Thailand, where the real power is in the hands of the military who have such economic and political power who is unthinkable in any democracy.On that there is no disagreement in this corner Of course you not dissagree whit it, just look howmany ex police and army generals are involved in the political game, and still have the controling power behind the political scene.

A many Thais always will tend to confirm himself with his surrounding, he never show may not show any sign of individualism to those he does not know well or feel comfortable with. Just look to the cars , 95 % of all the cars available from the very restricted and protected car producersare black or grey while it is clear from the number of Thais who decorate, or 'jazz up' their cars that Thais do like a to express their individualism in the cars they drive.. When I drive around the country I always surprised that all the houses look almost the same. Sometimes I think that there is only one architect in Thailand Then I realize that what I am seeing is a common vanacular which is part of Thai culture and when I look more closely I begin to see there are distinct regional differences, often marked differences between nearby communities. The new build shops all over Thailand look exactly the same. Just like the ready to build plans issued by the government and which come together with a material breakdown, estimated build cost and almost certain guarantee of building approval - Knowing this I am impressed by the pragmatism of Thais in this respect. Your comment about the individualism of Thais is a typical kind of limited individualism we saw and see in communist counties or dictatorships.

My wife who stay 35 years abroad feel always suffocated when she is in Thailand, simply because she can't speak freely as she get used to it in Europe. Because an open conversation is just impossible in Thailand, you must always be cautious not to offend people, and of the many taboos in society, even with her on sisters, brothers and children she can not have an open minded conversation. This is just like many western expats who return home and find that when they try to discuss their life and experiences overseas, friends and family glaze over and stop listening - perhaps this challenge to one's own perceptions is uncomfortable for Thais just as it is for westerners. I did not spoke about converstations or discussssions about life or experiences oversea, because we all now that the Thais( even the educated once have not the slightest idea about what is going on outside LOS. or even interested in it. And frankly why should they, because they get not any kind of intelectuel stimulans to do so. The major Thai tv stations make only programs who are an insult to human intelect and of a kindergarden level. Their main goal is besides game shows, chit chat and soaps, to promote patriotism of an unseen level, only beaten by FOX, Dr. Goebels or North Korea.Thai people deserve better than this.

Thai people are not learned to think for themselves, and they feel comfortable to do so, because its easy and you never have doubts. Look at the responses to threads here on TV and you can see many non Thais get very uncomfortable with thoughts outside of their usual thinking patterns.........

I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Yes I get your drift believe me. But I don't think you get mine. I love Thailand and have the highest respect and feel a deep emphaty with his inhabitants. Thats why I feel very verry sad, because they deserve better than a segregrated society. Not by race or religion,but by gender and social class. Where nor everybody have the same tools. Even worse many are even deprived of it.

And going back to the OP. Yes Thailand made progress in some fields, but this progress don't benefit the common Thais and the country as an whole. On the contrary. Of course it would be more comfortable and have more peace of mind if I close my eyes and going on living in my well protected ivory tower like most middle class Thais are doing. But I'm frustrated because I have to act like that every single hour I'm in LOS, because I don't like to be an outcast in the Thai society.Thai Visa is the only, even limited way to express my real feelings.Living inside or outside LOS make no difference, beeing expat or no expat has nothing to do with it.

BTW I'm not a leftwinger.

[RoyalOrchid]

I think the progress would make sense for local Thais, that live here and have families and children, but for expats, tourists or foreigners that are here for the job it doesn't really matter. In fact, it's better for them that Thailand woudln't make any progress and remain a 3-d world country, since it provides cheap living, cheap food, clothing and other things, that foreigners love here so much. Look how many foreigners live here and have families, and why? Because of all these.

[Jingthing]

I think the progress would make sense for local Thais, that live here and have families and children, but for expats, tourists or foreigners that are here for the job it doesn't really matter. In fact, it's better for them that Thailand woudln't make any progress and remain a 3-d world country, since it provides cheap living, cheap food, clothing and other things, that foreigners love here so much. Look how many foreigners live here and have families, and why? Because of all these.

I have to agree with you which makes me wonder why we aren't encouraged by the Thai elite to come here in even greater numbers as we are as a group a great force in favor of the STATUS QUO.

[Scott]

What is disappointing about threads like this is they are seldom constructive. I posed some questions earlier and got plenty of flames, but no answers. So, apparently if we ask questions, we are being critical of the country.

I like the country. I enjoy the people. At times, I am frustrated being here--but I was frustrated at times most places that I have lived. The OP posed a question. Perhaps some answers would be in order.

[henryalleman]

Progress has to do with a whole variety of things, not just buildings. The fact that many innovations and designs are copied can hardly be attributed to progress.

How much progress has been made in the field of education?

How many inventions and innovations are attributed to Thailand?

How many scientific discoveries have been made?

I have no particular problem with the country and enjoy my stay here

What have you done to improve the education of Thai people ?

How many inventions and inovations are attributed to you ?

Made any scientific discoveries lately ?

That's good....

why do you ask this questions to him. Why you don't you ask this questions to the Thai government who should create and environment where this things are possible

[henryalleman]

So what do you think when you hear the name Taiwan? Ok, they have Acer, but otherwise it's a medium income country, the land of knockoffs and cheap computer parts soon to be completely overshadowed and absorbed by China.

And Singapore - apart from being nice and orderly - what have they got to show? Politically backward, culturally dull, boring place with highest rates of depression in the region.

SK got their own Korean cultural wave, similar to Japanese. Taiwan and Singapore do not lead in any area by comparison.

50 yaers ago Singapore was on of the most poor countries in the world, just look it now, an excellent healhtcare and pension system. Compare this with the Thai situation. the rural population in Thailand is more poor than 50 years ago.

[Plus]

Well, yes, Singapore progressed very very fast, but for the last couple decades, when Thailand started growing, too, the gap between them stayed essentially the same.

And that is not to mention political progress that is simply non-existent in Singapore.

I'm really tempted to say that under Thaksin Thai telecoms got stuck in 20th century. Still no 3G and broadband is a laugh, no sign of HDTV. Thaksin's Shin Corp (mobiles, internet, satellites), in the meatime, became three - four times richer. "Serving the nation" my ass.

[benjamat]

Seems a pointless and probably insulting post. It is what it is, by the same token thai people would not be lining up to move to the UK or the US if it was the same as Thailand or the phillipines or laos or v ietnam or peurto rico or any of the other less well developed countries.

My wife is thai and 14 years younger than me, she is intelligent and educated and I do not wiegh 3 times as much as her, she is happy to live anywhere as long as she is with me and I feel the same.

What does this have to do with anything being talked about here? Nothing is the answer! And the only pointless point made here that i have read so far is yours. Does every post at this site have to have one drunk fool making stupid remarks. Can not just one subject be discussed here without somebody insulting somebody!

All it takes is to engage your brain before your mouth.

[benjamat]

It is evident that Thailand has created a society that many here cannot stand to be away from, and amonth those a significant number are in Thailand to escape progress back in their home country.

Spot on. I think most expats are here because they dont like what is happening in native countries under the guise of progress. There have been many posts on this and as far as the 50+ generation is concerned progress often means pulling back from the values they learned as children or even what their fathers or other family members died for in the 2nd world war.

I know its easy to say people only come here for the girls or the cheap living but I for one come here because I see many of the values I believe in still in place.

If you look at what is happening with the economies of the world at this time it is difficult not to equate these problems with reduced basic values. Thailand of course is no different in this respect but the issue is global.

In the west we hold up the advance of capitalism as progress, I for one am not so sure about that.

[benjamat]

So what do you think when you hear the name Taiwan? Ok, they have Acer, but otherwise it's a medium income country, the land of knockoffs and cheap computer parts soon to be completely overshadowed and absorbed by China.

And Singapore - apart from being nice and orderly - what have they got to show? Politically backward, culturally dull, boring place with highest rates of depression in the region.

SK got their own Korean cultural wave, similar to Japanese. Taiwan and Singapore do not lead in any area by comparison.

50 yaers ago Singapore was on of the most poor countries in the world, just look it now, an excellent healhtcare and pension system. Compare this with the Thai situation. the rural population in Thailand is more poor than 50 years ago.

I like your posts but not really fair to compare singapore to thailand. Singapore is a small island that was in the grip of a benevolant dictator (Yes I expect flames for that statement). In the beginning it was difficult but over time all singaporeans have gaines significant bebefits as opposed to many other countries to the extent that they are now envied by many.

I remember visiting singapore in the early 70s and seeingb the long haired hippies being turned away and people being fined for dropping any litter, it set a standard that fed through all life.

To achieve the same with the many languages and ethnic diversity of thailand would have been impossible.

Edited November 17, 2008 by benjamat

[Lucifer]

Thailand will make progress and will get there but at their own pace. ( YES BUT AT WHAT PACE? DOES IT TAKE 40 YEARS TO GET 10 YEARS WORTH OF PROGRESS?

Anybody going to live in Thailand hoping to see western style "progress" at a western rate is in the wrong place. ( VERY TRUE ) ( dont expect western progress but any sign of any progress would be nice!!!! )

Doesn't matter. Just enjoy the ride.

[Aswin]

As for politics and corruption, it stinks. But the title is about progress, and how do we define it? This is a modern, industrialized country. With roads, trains, cars, electricity, mobile phones, computers, cars, TV, tc. There are still remote villages without these features, but increasingly less. Refering to Thailand as 3rd world, and comparing it to some war-torn African country, strikes me as pure nonsense, but you are welcome to your opinion.

I could not agree more with this paragraph; politically Thailand might not have developed very far, but looking at the bickering about the US and the UK that flames up every singly time there is something remotely political mentioned, maybe that is not such a bad thing. Many of the changes do also happen beyond the surface, as the Thais are very good smiling at you and prtending that everything is as it was ever before.

From an infrastructure standpoint, Thailand is developing with a reckless speed; environmental degradation is a nice keyword here. As I came to Thailand a decade ago, Bangkok was already an unlivable polluted place and breathing was only possible because the 1997 crash had wiped out momentarily a lot of the traffic.

Phuket seemed quaint with nice beaches and a relaxed lifestyle in comparison: the whole island had around 2,000 phone landlines and having a phone was a social achievement. Now Phuket is the perfect example of not development, but over-development -- funny I thought the same already years ago and they are still cramming more hotels and developments on the island by the day.

Half of Patong's Soi Bangla is by now replaced by Starbucks, MacDonalds and shoe shops, the rest rather an amusement spectacle for gawking tourists so stingy that they walk around with water bottles in their hands (not that replacing Soi Bangla is inherently bad, but with what it is replaced makes me get bile in my mouth). If you count the number of fast food outlets or super-malls as development, Phuket definitely made the jump into the 21st century. So maybe you should come and live here: tyou can eat and shop just as back home, to exactly the same prices.

As other posters here wrote: in reality, if you do not come here for work or as a tourist just scratching the shiny surface without real interest what lies below, you would not want Thailand to develop much further or you would be already living in Singapore or Hong Kong.

If you would live here on a more permanent basis (and did not just come for the girls), you would look for a different lifestyle and more quietitude compared to home and this entails the rather 'backwards'-looking components of the country here.

I would make the bold statement that the majority of members of Thai Visa are actually against progress as the western world defines it and could live indefinitely with the status quo here just fine. We do not worry about progress, we actually do worry that things could become worse.

Well said.

11 years ago, Thailand was ground zero for the Asian financial crisis that began with the collapse of its currency, the baht. Thailand has dramatically improved its fundamentals since but in addition to ongoing domestic political unrest, it must contend with the effects of the current global financial crisis that originated far away (this time). Lessons learned during the past crisis have served the country well. Most of the banks here have very little exposure to the toxic collateralized debt obligations and other exotic financial instruments that have been the bane of many venerable Western financial institutions. Yes Thailand has political issues and it seems the country is being divided in two but its "business as usual". People look on CNN and they think the whole country to be on fire, but business still goes on as usual. As you know, it's only a small part in Bangkok that's affected. Anti-government protests have generally been confined to the area near Government House in Bangkok and are by no means widespread throughout the capital.

[Misplaced]

So what do you think when you hear the name Taiwan? Ok, they have Acer, but otherwise it's a medium income country, the land of knockoffs and cheap computer parts soon to be completely overshadowed and absorbed by China.

And Singapore - apart from being nice and orderly - what have they got to show? Politically backward, culturally dull, boring place with highest rates of depression in the region.

SK got their own Korean cultural wave, similar to Japanese. Taiwan and Singapore do not lead in any area by comparison.

50 yaers ago Singapore was on of the most poor countries in the world, just look it now, an excellent healhtcare and pension system. Compare this with the Thai situation. the rural population in Thailand is more poor than 50 years ago.

Is this facts or opinion?

Truth of the matter is, today Thai rural are better of than they were "50 years ago". They have the ability to own their own home (based on the 1 million baht forced lending), many have mobile phones, motor cycle and various luxuries they didn't previously had. The cheap 30 baht medical services is another which anyone can used and it's being subsidized by the gov't. Now I'm not saying these are the best ideas, but it has helped thai rural to have a better life than they did 50 years ago. As a matter of fact, It's better than it was 20 years ago.

One of the reason I love Thailand is same reason why many of you hate it. It hasn't changed much and that's the way I like it . If I want things to be the same as in the States than why bother to considered moving at all.

[njpski]

So what do you think when you hear the name Taiwan? Ok, they have Acer, but otherwise it's a medium income country, the land of knockoffs and cheap computer parts soon to be completely overshadowed and absorbed by China.

And Singapore - apart from being nice and orderly - what have they got to show? Politically backward, culturally dull, boring place with highest rates of depression in the region.

SK got their own Korean cultural wave, similar to Japanese. Taiwan and Singapore do not lead in any area by comparison.

50 yaers ago Singapore was on of the most poor countries in the world, just look it now, an excellent healhtcare and pension system. Compare this with the Thai situation. the rural population in Thailand is more poor than 50 years ago.

Is this facts or opinion?

Truth of the matter is, today Thai rural are better of than they were "50 years ago". They have the ability to own their own home (based on the 1 million baht forced lending), many have mobile phones, motor cycle and various luxuries they didn't previously had. The cheap 30 baht medical services is another which anyone can used and it's being subsidized by the gov't. Now I'm not saying these are the best ideas, but it has helped thai rural to have a better life than they did 50 years ago. As a matter of fact, It's better than it was 20 years ago.

One of the reason I love Thailand is same reason why many of you hate it. It hasn't changed much and that's the way I like it . If I want things to be the same as in the States than why bother to considered moving at all.

One of the reason I love Thailand is same reason why many of you hate it. It hasn't changed much and that's the way I like it . If I want things to be the same as in the {insert country here} then why bother to consider moving at all.

As for Singapore (an earlier poster was worried about being flamed for telling the truth - well, it might be my turn!), the benevolent(?) dictatorship with its rampant nepotism has allegedly given rise to a "Great Society". The Singaporeans have sacrificed freedoms for progress, so much so, you can't even chew gum! Please, do not encourage Thailand to slavishly go down the slippery slope of material progress.

Thailand's simple reliance on family, great food, respect and smiles with limited technology, when analysed carefully, reveals itself to be sufficient to have a great life.

I have been greedy, materialistic and judgmental in the past, and all it got me was hypertensive, irritable and envious. I re-evaluated the important things and now need so much less.

[Misplaced]

The major Thai tv stations make only programs who are an insult to human intelect and of a kindergarden level. Their main goal is besides game shows, chit chat and soaps, to promote patriotism of an unseen level, only beaten by FOX, Dr. Goebels or North Korea.Thai people deserve better than this.

So very true!

Thai tv station make program(s) to insult all our intellect at kindergarten level so to promote patriotism? Whatttttt? Dude you must be on Yabah. Take a chill pill and call your psychiatrist in the morning.

You must be joking? What's wrong with you man?

[Dakhar]

I have been greedy, materialistic and judgmental in the past, and all it got me was hypertensive, irritable and envious. I re-evaluated the important things and now need so much less.

That is easy to say when you are 60, have a fat bank account, and all the essentials in life covered. If u never had your "greedy" stage, I doubt you could afford to live the life style you have at the moment.

Pure guese work, but I imagine I am not far off from the mark.

Thailand for me is OK. But what really grates me is the total lack of respect for the law, laws that can directly harm others. Such as driving the wrong direction. Whew what I would give for a snow plow at times!

[Scott]

Whether the country makes 'progress' or not is of little importance to me -- I will be reasonably comfortable here either way. What does make it important is that the local people seem to want progress and when they aren't happy, then life for everyone gets a lot less enjoyable.

I teach a number of adults and they are a really interesting group. There are a few who are fervently nationalistic. They have never stepped outside of Thailand (OK one was in Cambodia). There are a number who are quite unhappy with Thailand--they have all been to other countries--and not all western countries--they've been to places like Korea and Japan. There question is always, why can't we be more like them?

I don't answer them, but try to get a dialogue (it is a class, afterall). This includes the things they like and don't like and things they want to change and not change.

The country belongs to the citizens. If they are happy with it, then so be it. But if they want progress, then they need to strive for it.

[henryalleman]

So what do you think when you hear the name Taiwan? Ok, they have Acer, but otherwise it's a medium income country, the land of knockoffs and cheap computer parts soon to be completely overshadowed and absorbed by China.

And Singapore - apart from being nice and orderly - what have they got to show? Politically backward, culturally dull, boring place with highest rates of depression in the region.

SK got their own Korean cultural wave, similar to Japanese. Taiwan and Singapore do not lead in any area by comparison.

50 yaers ago Singapore was on of the most poor countries in the world, just look it now, an excellent healhtcare and pension system. Compare this with the Thai situation. the rural population in Thailand is more poor than 50 years ago.

Is this facts or opinion?

Truth of the matter is, today Thai rural are better of than they were "50 years ago". They have the ability to own their own home (based on the 1 million baht forced lending), many have mobile phones, motor cycle and various luxuries they didn't previously had. The cheap 30 baht medical services is another which anyone can used and it's being subsidized by the gov't. Now I'm not saying these are the best ideas, but it has helped thai rural to have a better life than they did 50 years ago. As a matter of fact, It's better than it was 20 years ago. 50 years ago they did not have to send their daughters to the broddels of Pattaya, Phuket and BKK to support the family. You refer to their new build houses, cell phones and motorcycles and luxuries, but you forgot to mention that most of that is payed by money who come from abroad, be it an emmigrant worker in the gulf states or by female expats (not neccesary married whit a farang)who support the whole family.All the single Thai women I know in my town send money home to support the family. And they work dam_n hard to get it, many times even exploited by their own nationals. And they are many times frustrated to see what the family is doing with their hard earn cash.But family loyalty is to strong to put an end to it. The so called signs of progress you mentioned is comming from outside the rural areas.

They should erect a big statue in the capital to honnor all this women. Because they are the backbone of the country, and the corner stone of family live. Regardles they are a prostitute or not.

One of the reason I love Thailand is same reason why many of you hate it. It hasn't changed much and that's the way I like it . If I want things to be the same as in the States than why bother to considered moving at all.

[henryalleman]

The major Thai tv stations make only programs who are an insult to human intelect and of a kindergarden level. Their main goal is besides game shows, chit chat and soaps, to promote patriotism of an unseen level, only beaten by FOX, Dr. Goebels or North Korea.Thai people deserve better than this.

So very true!

Thai tv station make program(s) to insult all our intellect at kindergarten level so to promote patriotism? Whatttttt? Dude you must be on Yabah. Take a chill pill and call your psychiatrist in the morning.

You must be joking? What's wrong with you man?

With all due respect but you should read that remark again. or do you have a problem with comprehensive reading.