Thai Universities

[corkscrew]

Thanks for all the responses, especially to 'Guesthouse' for a very detailed insight. I should have mentioned that it is my step-daughter, who is a thai national and does not speak much english, so the overseas route is not an option. For the top thai universities mentioned, is entry based on ability or who you know ? Also, what is the annual tuition fees for a university like Chula ?

As for the slanging match that ensued, I went to three u.k universities (Sheffield, Leeds and Aston) and i also lived in America. You'll find that the top u.k unis and the top u.s unis are much the same standard. I would say that the u.s offers a more broad based course - like continental european unis, whilst u.k unis focus more on one subject.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did two law degrees: one at the University of California in Berkeley (J.D.) and on at the University of London (LL.M.). The more stressful one was at Berkeley...but the one at LSE and Kings was more interesting. Perhaps the difference lay in the level of anxiety...which was higher at the American one (because we were worried about getting our ticket to practice law)....while in London we were more interested in exploring the intellectual side of our profession. Both were great experiences.

I would advise all Thai students to go abroad for at least one degree. The least they can come away with is a better tongue when it comes to English. And they will be good ambassadors for a country, Thailand, that we farangs love.

[kat]

Unfortunately, most Thais cannot go abroad to study. That's why it's important to reform Thai education, starting from primary school up. But at the very least, I think one immediate remedy for Thai universities would be to design a class on critical thinking/arguments. I would like to teach a class requiring Thai students to choose a topic that they had to both defend and refute.

Zovox QUOTE:

"As for the slanging match that ensued, I went to three u.k universities (Sheffield, Leeds and Aston) and i also lived in America. You'll find that the top u.k unis and the top u.s unis are much the same standard. I would say that the u.s offers a more broad based course - like continental european unis, whilst u.k unis focus more on one subject." END

How would you know how to compare standards or courses simply by "living" in America? That is not the same as attending university. Sounds like another lame-arse generalization substantiated by "because I say so".

Zovox QUOTE:

"Thanks for all the responses, especially to 'Guesthouse' for a very detailed insight." END

Yes, and thanks to you too, for revealing your total lack of detail and insight.

Corckscrew QUOTE:

"I did two law degrees: one at the University of California in Berkeley (J.D.) and on at the University of London (LL.M.). The more stressful one was at Berkeley...but the one at LSE and Kings was more interesting. Perhaps the difference lay in the level of anxiety...which was higher at the American one (because we were worried about getting our ticket to practice law)....while in London we were more interested in exploring the intellectual side of our profession." END

I'd say this comment has more merit. However, there are substantial differences in approach even among the American Universities in the top 5, and across academic departments. My university had an exchange program with Cambridge. And I can tell you from numerous accounts of international students that there was no comparison in breadth or rigor.

Does this mean that I would turn down an opportunity to study at Cambridge or Oxford? No, although if I had my choice I'd rather go to the London School of Economics.

For argument's sake, while I think there are many things that the Brits can boast superiority about in comparison to America, private education is not one of them.

[ZOVOX]

Zovox QUOTE:

"As for the slanging match that ensued, I went to three u.k universities (Sheffield, Leeds and Aston) and i also lived in America. You'll find that the top u.k unis and the top u.s unis are much the same standard. I would say that the u.s offers a more broad based course - like continental european unis, whilst u.k unis focus more on one subject." END

How would you know how to compare standards or courses simply by "living" in America?  That is not the same as attending university.  Sounds like another lame-arse generalization substantiated by "because I say so".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kat, your quote:

'Jackr, I don't want to get into petty arguments, but I'm tired of relentless competition when there is none. I went to two of the universities in the top 5 list, and met several people who also went to Cambridge. Let me assure you there is no competition.'

How can you compare standards by just talking to some people at cambridge ?

I think you have defeated your own argument. And i think you need to go to anger mangement !!

[jackr]

Jackr, I don't want to get into petty arguments, but I'm tired of relentless competition when there is none. I went to two of the universities in the top 5 list, and met several people who also went to Cambridge. Let me assure you there is no competition.

And secondly, the list on google is not the exact same list that was part of a global survey. The list on google is a Japanese survery (I believe, but I'm not sure). The list that was published a couple of months ago by a survey of 1800 academics worldwide was a bit different.

Yawn. ..suggest you go back and reread my first posting. And with regards Cambridge, in your own words, "How would you know how to compare standards or courses simply on what you've been told? That is not the same as attending university. Sounds like another lame-arse generalization substantiated by "because I say so".

[kat]

I'm not angry. I was simply responding to personal insults that Zovox and others try to hurl to compensate for their total lack of factual information.

To paraphrase both of you, paraphrasing me:

"How can you compare standards by just talking to some people at cambridge ?"

I suggest both of YOU go back and read:

1. I am basing my comments on 2 different international reports: 1 on google, which Jackr found (Japanese study, 2004)

2. A global survey of over 1800 academics which ranked universities worldwide, and which was published a couple of months ago in the Nation and Bangkok Post.

3. The fact that my university had an exchange program with Cambridge, in which numerous international students participated and compared.

Therefore, I am talking about 2 international PUBLISHED surverys, AND personal knowlege of direct NUMEROUS comparisons.

Get it? It isn't just "because I say so".

But ######. it doesn't matter what I say. Just read the published reports of more than 1800 academics that I already mentioned.

Edited December 14, 2004 by kat

[Limbo]

Sometimes you find superb teachers or researchers at lousy universities. And for some students they make it the best university in the world.

In Thailand you can meet brilliant taxidrivers and academics who wouldn't be able to understand any lecture at a western university.

It is so relative.

It is related to money as well. If a university cannot afford a good laboratory few of its students will will become Nobel-prize winners in chemistry.

And sportfields, are sportfields not important in the USA? And therefore the average lenght of the students? Indirectly the size of their shoes?

What criteria are used? The number of publications (not a very valid one)?

And again, the 'best'university can have some lousy faculties. And a lousy university can have a superb faculty.

Somebody mentioned the Silapakorn (after Birashi). Study art there? Yes why not? But for law it is the Thammasat (sanskrit word for law) and for medicine the Chula.

For copying the Rajabhats en for good-morning good-morning the Ramkanhaeng.

[sriracha john]

The best in Thailand are Chulalongkorn, Thammasat and Ramkanghaeng. These are the only ones which have international recognition.

If your daughter has overseas citizenship then send her overseas.

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Ram does not even begin to be in the same league as the other two. Not even in the slightest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's so low-class, they even let Thaksin's brat in.... and he STILL had to cheat on exams.

[mbkudu]

The best in Thailand are Chulalongkorn, Thammasat and Ramkanghaeng. These are the only ones which have international recognition.

If your daughter has overseas citizenship then send her overseas.

It really depends on how proficient you'd like her to be in English. By the time she graduates from any of the three universities above, her grasp of English will be just below fair; that's being optimistic. If she were to graduate from ABAC for example, her English would be top notch. Assumption is recognised worldwide as well. I know this because I have tutored students from all these schools. Students from Ramkamhaeng struggle the hardest with English of the schools above.

If you look at the websites you will see that the tuition for a 4 year all English program is around 350,000 Thai Baht.

Edited December 14, 2004 by mbkudu

[ZOVOX]

Jackr, I don't want to get into petty arguments, but I'm tired of relentless competition when there is none. I went to two of the universities in the top 5 list, and met several people who also went to Cambridge. Let me assure you there is no competition.

And secondly, the list on google is not the exact same list that was part of a global survey. The list on google is a Japanese survery (I believe, but I'm not sure). The list that was published a couple of months ago by a survey of 1800 academics worldwide was a bit different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yawn. ..suggest you go back and reread my first posting. And with regards Cambridge, in your own words, "How would you know how to compare standards or courses simply on what you've been told? That is not the same as attending university. Sounds like another lame-arse generalization substantiated by "because I say so".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[ZOVOX]

Just because someone went to a 'top 5-listed university' does not make them intelligent - just look at George.W.Bush !!!!

[sriracha john]

Just because someone went to a 'top 5-listed university' does not make them intelligent - just look at George.W.Bush !!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd rather not have to, thank you...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Jackr, I don't want to get into petty arguments, but I'm tired of relentless competition when there is none. I went to two of the universities in the top 5 list, and met several people who also went to Cambridge. Let me assure you there is no competition.

And secondly, the list on google is not the exact same list that was part of a global survey. The list on google is a Japanese survery (I believe, but I'm not sure). The list that was published a couple of months ago by a survey of 1800 academics worldwide was a bit different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yawn. ..suggest you go back and reread my first posting. And with regards Cambridge, in your own words, "How would you know how to compare standards or courses simply on what you've been told? That is not the same as attending university. Sounds like another lame-arse generalization substantiated by "because I say so".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whatever is a SURVERY

[Thaigrr]

Thaigrrr, I think you'll find the internet is a British invention.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually not, Professor Flatulent. (Hint...US defense department)

Even so, I said developed, not invented.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thaigrrr, I think you'll find the internet is a British invention.......

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Actually not, Professor Flatulent. (Hint...US defense department)

Even so, I said developed, not invented.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Professor isn't into research much. It is very cold in Dodgerland

[jackr]

You've hit the keyword...INVENTED. As said before, very easy to bung the money in and improve things once you have the blueprints.

Edited December 15, 2004 by jackr

[kat]

Just because someone went to a 'top 5-listed university' does not make them intelligent - just look at George.W.Bush !!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, on this we can agree. But what exactly is the point of your excessive exclamation points? Do you need punctuation management?

[kat]

And Jackr, lest you think I am neglecting you and your relentless and only point about Cambridge's alumni ranking in the Japanese survey on google, the following link is for you. The 2nd survey I was talking about was done by the Times Higher Education ranking (November/December 2004). Cambridge and Oxford were 5th and 6th, respectively.

Also, please read another TV thread entitled "M.A. from Cambridge" for further insight on alumni rankings.

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,591-1343946,00.html

Britain wins eight places in world list of 50 best universities

By Tony Halpin

OXFORD and Cambridge are among the world's top ten universities, according to a new global ranking published today.

They were fifth and sixth respectively in the league table of the world's 200 best universities. Harvard, which boasts an endowment of nearly $23billion (£12.7billion), was first in the list produced by The Times Higher Education Supplement (THES).

American institutions occupied seven of the top ten places, with Oxbridge the highest-ranked outside the United States.

London's position as a centre of global educational significance was confirmed with four institutions in the top 50. The London School of Economics was 11th, Imperial College 14th, University College London 34th, and the School of Oriental and African Studies 44th.

The only European university outside Britain in the top 20 was the Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, Switzerland, in tenth place.

Cambridge, Massachusetts, however, can lay claim to being the world's most intellectual city, as home to Harvard and to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, which was ranked at No3.

California also scored highly, with the University of California, Berkeley, in second place, the California Institute of Technology, fourth, and Stanford seventh.

Tokyo University, in Japan, ranked at No12, was the highest-ranked institution in Asia, followed by Beijing University at No17.

Australian universities featured particularly well. Six were among the top 50 in the World University Rankings, led by the Australian National University in sixteenth place.

France, by contrast, managed just two universities in the top 50, with the École Polytechnique in 27th place and École Normale Supérieure 30th. Heidelburg University, in 47th place, was Germany's only entry, one fewer than Hong Kong.

Britain was home to 18 of Europe's top 50 universities, and six of the top ten, but not a single institution from Spain, Portugal, Italy or Greece made the list. The United States had 62 of the top 200 universities, followed by Britain with 30, Germany 17 and Australia 14. Twenty-nine countries were represented in the global rankings overall.

Universities were placed in the table with the help of findings from a survey for the THES of 1,300 academics in 88 countries. They were asked to name the best institutions in the fields that they felt knowledgeable about.

The table also included data on the amount of cited research produced by faculty members as an indicator of intellectual vitality, the ratio of faculty to student numbers and a university's success in attracting foreign students and internationally renowned academics in the global market for education. The five factors were weighted and transformed against a scale that gave the top university 1,000 points and ranked everyone else as a proportion of that score.

Harvard, whose faculty members have won 40 Nobel prizes, emerged as the world's best university by a considerable distance, with second-placed Berkeley rated 120 points behind at 880.2. Oxford scored 731.8, slightly ahead of Cambridge on 725.4.

John O'Leary, Editor of the THES, said: "Leading universities increasingly define themselves in terms of international competition. By taking account of the views of academics from across five continents and using the most up-to-date statistics, our ranking gives an informed picture of the world's top universities."

A world league of the best 500 research universities, published in September by academics at Shanghai Jiao Tong University in China, placed Cambridge third behind Harvard and Stanford. Oxford came eighth, while British universities ranked second overall behind those in the United States.

Last December a report by Richard Lambert, former Editor of the Financial Times, urged the Russell Group of Britain's leading 19 universities to establish a league table of the world's best research institutions, by which they could measure their own performances.

Edited December 16, 2004 by kat

[kat]

You've hit the keyword...INVENTED. As said before, very easy to bung the money in and improve things once you have the blueprints.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And one other thing: the internet as we know it developed as a combination of different areas of expertise from various countries. Many complicated disciplines came together to function as the technological, operational, and geographically borderless information infrastructure that it is today. The first research paper on the techological aspect of transparent file sharing from one computer to the next was written by a professor at MIT in 1961. The first experiment of this sort was done on computers between Massachussets and California. In 1964, British researchers also surfaced with a similar paper on "packet sharing". After this, they continued to collaborate with MIT and other subsequent research after 1964.

www.isoc.org/internet/history/brief.shtml#Introduction

This is hardly a case in which you state it is "very easy to bung the money in and improve things once you have the blueprints."

On the contrary, I think it is very easy to assume a habitual sense of superiority and entitlement without bothering to know the facts.

[remmy]

US Universities are no 1 choice of students all over the world, followed by britain and australia.

I think George Bush is more intelligent than all of you. Look at his achievement and look at your achievement. He is the president of USA and you are nothing and no one knows you.

I dont know about other universities in Thailand, but being a student in ABAC I am not very impressed with lecturers especially thai and other south east asian teachers assigned for freshmen and sophomore years. However I hope it will be better from junior and Senior years as my seniors told me. But I'm planning to do the last 2 years in australian univ.

[OxfordWill]

If it was my child and I was choosing, I would choose a British University and probably a British education  throughout - Just like so many wealthy Thais.

Most wealthy Thais send their offspring to American Universities, if they are wealthy enough that is, my friend. An American education beats a British education hands down. Witness the internet, computers, aerospace, medical advances, franchising, etc. etc. are mostly American developed. Even the Japanese economy was largly developed as a result of the teaching of a few American business consultants, including Edward Demming.

And the Brits have developed ...................?

Ha ha ha. You obviously DO have an American education!!

[ProfessorFart]

Witness the internet, computers, aerospace, medical advances, franchising, etc. etc. are mostly American developed

Let me see, the Internet.....British, Computers........British........Medical advances....... well if we agree that penicillin is the most important medical advance of the last century.....erm.......British also.

That leaves the US with aerospace and fast food franchises! Well done!!

[ZOVOX]

I think George Bush is more intelligent than all of you.

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[dr_Pat_Pong]

Witness the internet, computers, aerospace, medical advances, franchising, etc. etc. are mostly American developed

Let me see, the Internet.....British, Computers........British........Medical advances....... well if we agree that penicillin is the most important medical advance of the last century.....erm.......British also.

That leaves the US with aerospace and fast food franchises! Well done!!

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The Australian medical researcher Lord Florey might be a bit pissed about that assertion about penicillin Professor.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think George Bush is more intelligent than all of you.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

George and his mommy agree with you

[sriracha john]

I think George Bush is more intelligent than all of you.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!..... thanks for the wonderful laugh, remmy.

[kat]

Witness the internet, computers, aerospace, medical advances, franchising, etc. etc. are mostly American developed

Let me see, the Internet.....British, Computers........British........Medical advances....... well if we agree that penicillin is the most important medical advance of the last century.....erm.......British also.

That leaves the US with aerospace and fast food franchises! Well done!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Australian medical researcher Lord Florey might be a bit pissed about that assertion  about penicillin Professor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yawn. We've been through this before: the internet was the culmination of many scientific explorations beforehand.

However, the researchers and inventors of the first internet connection were American, as any cursory history of the internet will tell you. The first internet connection linked the the MIT research office from Cambridge, Massachusets to the universities of UCLA and U of C Berkley. The original research started in the 1960s with a research branch of the American Department of the Defense (APRANET).

British research surfaced approximately 5 years later at a conference where the original American researchers were also presenting. They used the British research term "packet sharing" to describe network sharing.

A British scientist invented the world wide web, but that is not the same as saying he invented the internet. And your comment about British "medical advances" states nothing. Just about every industralized country can boast medical advances.

I guess you think that if someone resurrect the thread a few weeks later the facts change accordingly; they don't.

And as to your comment about aerospace and franchises, how exactly are you planning to execute your trip to Thailand, or any other destination over sea?

Next

[OxfordWill]

A British scientist invented the world wide web, but that is not the same as saying he invented the internet. 

Exactly, and some americans invented the technology of interconnecting 'phone lines, which is not the same as saying the americans invented the 'internet' as the word is now commonly understood. Infact, any quick survey of your friends will show you that the word 'internet' means the 'world wide web' and not the original meaning of some telephony experiments between universities.

What this is supposed to be proof of, I have already forgotten.

[jackr]

Not this crap again! Don't bother, Professor; just let them think it's all down to them and may their heads continue to grow along with their collective ego.

[meemiathai]

So have we come up with an answer already?

Which universities are better? American or British ones?

Is the OP satisfied with the answer?

[kat]

Exactly, and some americans invented the technology of interconnecting 'phone lines, which is not the same as saying the americans invented the 'internet' as the word is now commonly understood. Infact, any quick survey of your friends will show you that the word 'internet' means the 'world wide web' and not the original meaning of some telephony experiments between universities.

What this is supposed to be proof of, I have already forgotten.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, the technology of the internet is all down to some "telephony" experiments between some universities. This rules out all other significant preceeding scientific events, such as the Soviet foray into space and the prototype of shared information networks across geograhpical regions

Do you conduct "surveys of your friends" for your information? Are they all English?

Edited February 13, 2005 by kat