Retirement Visa Annual Renewal Money Questions

[johnnybgood]

Well I'm not as wealthy as I was 2 weeks ago, perhaps others too?

Thanks to the BOE interest rate cut (with more to come) sterling has dipped--leaving a weak pound versus the baht.

Next month, my K bank current account will have 200,000 baht left over from last year's inward transfer of 800,000 baht

This is my third straight retirement visa at Jomptien... but the first time I've had money left over!

Q1. Will 200k+600k be acceptable to immigration for this years (800k) retirement renewal? The 200k and 600k both being inward transfers but different years.

Q2. Has anyone answered regarding the 3 month "soak" period prior to the renewal anniversary? Yes?...No?... Who's done it ?

With the current rates of exchange IMHO it's important to know if we have a delay option or not.

I don't post as much as everyone else, but I'm sure this is the best place for sensible answers!

-----and you guessed right-- I'm a canny Scot :-)

[Lite Beer]

Q1. Yes that is ok. You do not have to spend the 800,000 and can top up every year.

Q2. It depends on what Immigration office you deal with. They all have a different view on this. You will have to ask them.

[Jingthing]

Several reports, INCLUDING MINE (twice now) that Jomtien does not require 3 month seasoning for SUBSEQUENT extensions, ONLY the first one. There has never been a requirement to SPEND or TRANSFER 800K every year.

[mcofer]

Well I looked around here for what 'three month soak period' is referring to and I'm still guessing. We successfully (sort of) applied for our visa 1 month early last year 2008 in Chiang Mai, but our visa date stayed the same.

Here's our story and question:

Last year in Chiang Mai my wife and I (both farang) applied for our 3rd or 4th year retirement visa renewal. Chiang Mai's air quality drops at end of Feb when burning starts and our visa was due on Mar 19. So, we went into immigration on 30+1 days early trying to get our visa date moved to Feb so we can leave to the south (or even leave the country) and breathe for a couple months each year.

My wife is of retirement age and I'm her dependent. We had money left in our joint BKK bank account, but still transferred in a full 800,000bt like the previous years. We had been told (not by immigration) that immigration looks at bank books to see 3 months of activity (withdrawals I assumed) prior to visa renewals. I assumed this was to make sure you don't put 800,000bt in the bank transfer it back out of the country (we did do that successfully one year) or let it just sit there, while you make an under-the-table income on the side by living off of Thailand.

We were told we can apply for our visa within 30 days of it's expiration date. So, we went in one day before that to see if all procedures where the same from the previous year. They window person assured us nothing was changed, scanned our documents and told us to return the next day.

We went to the hospital and got our checkups (we once did 4 checkup's in one year clearing a past visa issue, so everyone knows us there). Then, we went to the bank and got our letter and bank book updated. I spent the evening going over all the forms, dotting i's and crossing t's.

BUT... we've learned a valuable lesson... NEVER turn in a completed application form into Chiang Mai's immigration office. You must ALWAYS make some mistakes so the officer's there can correct you and you can show humility. So, last year, my wife signed my form and I signed her's.

We went to immigration the next day and were told, "You didn't need to get hospital checkups." Strange?! The day before the window person (now gone from the office) had said all was the same from the previous year. We got through the first couple of rounds of checks. They caught the reversed signature's and we were sent away to fix things up and played our 'humility' card.

Then, we got to our final person, and he let us know that we had a problem. Our bank account was a joint account. If one person was the retiree and the other a dependent, only the retiree name should be on the bank account. If both persons, retiree and dependant, are on the bank account we would need to show 800,000bt x 2 for our visas. This was obviously a clear change in procedure, our account was 7 years old and we'd used it for every visa to-date. Now, I'm wondering... We've already brought in our money, we have to wire it out (not easy we know from experience), set up a new account in only my wife's name, then wire it back in.

So, we start with a new humility cards, "Oh, we didn't know things had changed." The officer said, "There's no change, it's always been like this." Fortunately, my father was a police officer and my wife's father a general, we know NOT to correct our immigration office. We returned to our bank to see if they could be of some assistance. They too know us very well and were kind enough to write our bank letter, with only my wife's name confirming the incoming 800,000bt transfer. We return to the immigration office, but the officer would not except the letter without a matching bank book.

At that time, I happened to have with me a week-old article from the Chiang Mai Mail (our local English paper) confirming that local immigration officers had started interpreting some of the immigration laws differently than in the past. The paper said no other immigration offices where doing this. I pulled it out of my pocket and before the whole thing was even completely unfolded, the office turned a few shades of red and said, "This is the law, and it hasn't changed. One person only on the bank account or you have to show 1,600,000bt in the account."

So, I quickly back-peddled, my wife jumped in and we told him a sob story... we really needed to get our visa. We had a trip planned and time was important. How could we possibly wait to transfer the money out of the country and them bring it back in again under a new account. Then, Buddha stepped in, and our bank teller called to see how things where going. I handed my phone to the officer. The officer smiled and said, "Oh! You don't have to do that. Just open a new account in your wife's name and transfer the money into there." Whew, we knew if we had done this at the bank, he would have told us it wouldn't fly. Now, we'd made him part of the solution for our problem. We also had the other Thai from the bank helping him save face. We humbled ourselves and thanked him profusely for understanding our situation and being so helpful."

We went back to our bank. Our teller, her assistant and the bank manager came over. They did all the work and were completely embarrassed at what we were going through. They waved the fees for our letters, opened an account in my wife's name (fixed deposit, with interest) and transferred the money from our joint account into the new account.

We returned to immigration, and the officer told us there was no time to process our application. It was 5 minutes until 4pm and the office closes at 4:30pm. Now, we were really in a jam. If we left the office and returned the next day, this guy may not even show up and the whole thing would start over again. We refused to take back our passports and application and told him to please keep them and we would return the next day. He said he couldn't do that. We pleaded, at least keep the paperwork, we'll take our passports but don't want to lose our line in the queue (blah, blah). He miraculously agreed to do that and luckily on our return the next day, the paperwork was all cleared and ready to go. We got in in less than an hour.

What to do now? We've got the 800,000bt in a fixed account with my wife's name. We haven't touched it. We've been using our older joint account only because it has our ATM cards and all our over-seas accounts are connected to it by Repeating Wire Transfers. We're 3 months away from having to apply for our retirement visa renewal again.

We know that going to ask immigration means nothing because everything changes moment to moment there.

Do we need to show some kind of activity on my wife's 800,000bt account?

Will we have to transfer in another 800,000bt into that account?

Last year I promised I'd share all that happened to us on this forum, so others can benefit. We're hoping someone has some of their own experiences that can help us out. TIT, Yay!! Kop

Post#3 came in while I was composing this. THANKS!!

Edited November 20, 2008 by mcofer

[Jingthing]

Do we need to show some kind of activity on my wife's 800,000bt account?

Will we have to transfer in another 800,000bt into that account?

I will venture a guess.

Of course, nobody can tell you with 100 percent certainty what exactly will happen at your next renewal.

You don't technically have to show any activity on your wife's account. However, be prepared for the question: what do you live on? Then, be prepared to show other accounts showing how you live (especially good are the foreign transfers). I think this will probably be OK and if you are lucky they won't even comment.

No, you do not need to transfer in any new money. You've got the 800K. However, you have a weird case. You should save all documents about the foreign transfers into the other account that went into the new account so you can show a foreign sourced flow if asked at a later date (even years from now).

Personally, I obtain a printout with a bank stamp for each and every foreign transfer into my Thai bank account. I know I may never need them, but they are free and easy to get if less than a year old, and it couldn't hurt to be prepared (also for future outgoing transfers).

BTW, I am not surprised that you had that problem with two names on the account. That was a legit objection from the officer. Also, if you had been following this board, you would have known that medical reports have not been needed for quite awhile now. But now you know.

Note: For the future, if you wish to remove uncertainty I would suggest that next year you SPEND the 800K in your wife's account (or even transfer it to your other account if you wish) and then do a FOREIGN TRANSFER back into your wife's account 3 months before a renewal appointment. Then you will have a "clean" account without any question about the source of funds.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

The need for a medical certificate was stopped a few years ago.

The 800,000 has always needed to be in a single acc. not a joint account.

The three month rule was introduced because people were bending the rules by borrowing the money one day and taking it out the day after they applied for their extension. There were even reports that certain Immigration Officers were lending the money at high interest rates.

There have been a few reports by members, Jingthing being one of them, that Jontiem are only enforcing this rule for the first application. Most offices seem to be enforcing it for every application.

As JT said you do not have to bring in a fresh 800,000 every year. They do like to see a bit of movement in a bank book to show how you are supporting yourself.

[Jingthing]

There have been a few reports

Lite, I agree with all you said. However, saying "a few reports" might lead people to believe as few as two reports when I do recall quite more reports than that. Obviously, the more reports, the more recent reports, over a period of time, create more confidence about what is really happening.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Jingthing

[Rooo]

I have just had my fourth extension here on Samui.Explained to me in plain English ,that even if I have proof of income letter,they would like to see 800,000 in the bank,but not 3 months rule. If I don't have letter 800,000 in the bank fotr 3 months.

Now I have friends who borrowed the money from a renowned Visa outfit at huge interest & only had to have the money in for a day.

Now to add insult to injury, when I went to pay for my renewal & multiple entry,they asked for 8,700 Baht,suffice to say I didn't pay that.

So basic rule is , if I slip money under the table all will be fine.Try & point out to them & show their own litterature about the requirements, they just ignore it.

Now interpretation of the rules is fine, but not when it's spelled out in black & white.They just make it harder for you to get more money.Sure I have paid gratuity in the past, maybe that's my fault,but when you are adhering to the letter of the law & they still make things hard for you,it's extortion.

[Lite Beer]

There have been a few reports

Lite, I agree with all you said. However, saying "a few reports" might lead people to believe as few as two reports when I do recall quite more reports than that. Obviously, the more reports, the more recent reports, over a period of time, create more confidence about what is really happening.

Yep. It is generally accepted that Jontiem are only enforcing the rule for the first application. (Unless we here otherwise)

Not much help to mcofer in Chiangmai, but will be good news for the OP.

[Jingthing]

Rooo, they are definitely acting in great contrast to the actual rules, requiring 800K in the bank even when you have an income letter. Wow!

[Lite Beer]

I have just had my fourth extension here on Samui.Explained to me in plain English ,that even if I have proof of income letter,they would like to see 800,000 in the bank,but not 3 months rule. If I don't have letter 800,000 in the bank fotr 3 months.

Now I have friends who borrowed the money from a renowned Visa outfit at huge interest & only had to have the money in for a day.

Now to add insult to injury, when I went to pay for my renewal & multiple entry,they asked for 8,700 Baht,suffice to say I didn't pay that.

So basic rule is , if I slip money under the table all will be fine.Try & point out to them & show their own litterature about the requirements, they just ignore it.

Now interpretation of the rules is fine, but not when it's spelled out in black & white.They just make it harder for you to get more money.Sure I have paid gratuity in the past, maybe that's my fault,but when you are adhering to the letter of the law & they still make things hard for you,it's extortion.

The Re Entry Permit is 3,800 Baht. So they are still charging 5,000 Baht for the extension. (I'm guessing you meant 8,800) And on top of that they want to make up their own rules. I assume they did not give you a receipt.

I joined this forum 2 years ago with the intention of asking only one question. "How much are annual extensions"

They were charging me 5,000 back then.

[Rooo]

Rooo, they are definitely acting in great contrast to the actual rules, requiring 800K in the bank even when you have an income letter. Wow!

Jing,

My wife has to renew her's in April,will see what surprises are in store then.She has her 800,00 in the bank, will see what exuse they give us this time. We have really had enough of all this Sh.t. It really sours your stay in Thailand.