Uk Debts

[Tolley]

It is interesting the way people try to justify their own warped sense of morality by saying hey the banks are crooks therefore it is alright for me to be a crook.

What i find rather unsettling about the OP is that he was quite prepared to go into default when he had assets that easily covered the loan.

I can understand people defaulting if they are genuinely broke but this wasn't the case.

Even worse he is now borrowing money of his parents despite having the assets to cover the debts.

Grow up and meet your commitments. You borrowed money and you can and should pay the money back.

If everyone took the same attitude we would have no financial system at all......part of the current problem...

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Don't understand how it is OK to screw everyone because others are screwing them even more. Since the CEO's are screwing everyone out of millions it is OK for me to screw them out of thousands.

In the end the stockholders get the shaft. Plus everything cost more to make up for the loses.

The world has really gone to h-ell when all you think about is yourself.

When I was young it took many years of working to get the things your folks had. Now everyone expects to leave home and instantly have a lifestyle the same as their parents who worked their butts off for many years to get what they have. That or they just stay home and live off their parents until they are in their 40's or until the parents die and leave them everything.

[dsfbrit]

Since the CEO's are screwing everyone out of millions it is OK for me to screw them out of thousands.

In the end the stockholders get the shaft. Plus everything cost more to make up for the loses.

Yes and the CEO's have screwed me out of thousands. Its not just share holders, its savers who have their rates reduced immediatley the BOE reduces the lending rate. Its also the Expats who transfer their savings abroad to Thailand and get an exchange rate of 50 per Baht, compared to 70 per Baht when the economy was thought to be managed in a world where the banks employees didn't just think about their bonuses.

Indeed, the world really has gone to hel_l when you cannot trust a major high street bank to look after your hard earned savings.

Its a different world to the one you and I grew up in thats for sure. Are these bankers going to pay back these bonuses they received that they did not deserve - I don't think so.

I almost I wish I had I had a debt to walk away from just so I could stick 2 fingers up to these clowns.

I see now the UK government is increasing taxes on people in the UK to pay for all the bailouts. So the poor old honest employee in the UK gets stuffed again to pay for the banks to pay more bonuses to more useless *ankers!

[Briggsy]

How come over half of the posters on this forum cannot spell the word 'lose'? It only has 4 letters. It can't be that hard.

[patklang]

maybe part of the reason for the credit crunch are people like you borrowing money,investing it in thai property and then dont pay your debts.good work,well done.

You will be welcome here as there are many claiming dole too and live here,are you welsh by any chance.

[Chaimai]

It is interesting the way people try to justify their own warped sense of morality by saying hey the banks are crooks therefore it is alright for me to be a crook.

What i find rather unsettling about the OP is that he was quite prepared to go into default when he had assets that easily covered the loan.

I can understand people defaulting if they are genuinely broke but this wasn't the case.

Even worse he is now borrowing money of his parents despite having the assets to cover the debts.

Grow up and meet your commitments. You borrowed money and you can and should pay the money back.

If everyone took the same attitude we would have no financial system at all......part of the current problem...

Excellent points Tolley.

The fundamentals of a contract between borrower and lender is that one wishes to lend and be repaid and other intends to repay what he borrows. The original intentions of the OP can only help to destroy the 'system' and result in credit being harder to get and more expensive. People such as the OP are then the first ones to complain that the banks are not helpful. They have many, many failings and have recently shown once again why the 'umbrella' accusation remains valid. However, they are a fundamental part of the financial structure of the world and it is not helped when it is made too easy to walk away.

In the case of the OP he is now taking a valid route in seeking to 'settle' with his creditors. I wish him well in negotiating a fair and acceptable solution (if the banks are stupid enough to accept, say, 30% of the debt from someone with such earning/asset potential then they are indeed as short-sighted as we know them to be).

[imaneggspurt]

Sadly in today's society, especially in the UK, bankrupcy no longer has any/much stigma attached to it. I suspect the OP - troll or not - can walk away from the debt legally, as long as he 'proves' he has no income nor assets in the UK. Citizen's Advice' will give him free legal advice to do this. I suspect he can even claim some benefits from the UK social system if he shows he is suffering 'hardship'.

What the OP must not do though is just 'walk away'. He will almost certainly get County Court Judgments' (CCJ) against him in the local courts and that could cause all sorts of problems in the future.

The way the system in the UK 'rewards' this sort of activity and lets the tax payer pick up the burden, is one of the many reasons I left the 'nanny state' the UK has now become.

Hey don't blame the OP for 'abusing' the system, its rife in the UK and is almost a 'badge of honour' in some social circles to screw money out of the Government

I even know one guy some years ago during the housing crisis in the 90's who did this. He had everything in his wifes name so just her credit rating was screwed. Handed in the keys of their negative equity flat and walked away. Then moved into the house he owned and carried on as normal. I kept hoping there would be some comeback on him. However apart from his wife not being able to get credit for some years - nothing seemed to happen at all. What a stupid system, I am glad to no longer be a part of it!

So to the OP I say again, no need to run anywhere, just play the system and you will be home and dry!

There's no badge of honor associated with what the OP wants to do and it can't be condoned, even if some think that lots of other people do it - there's absolutely no difference between what he intends and outright theft. And the reason, the bank wouldn't give me a credit card for zero interest transfers, ye Gods, spare us all.

There is a world of difference between this and theft - failure to repay debt is NOT a crime - unless pre-planned, and this guy's said he's been trying to repay it for years.

A badge of honour maybe not, but all he's doing is taking a legally available option of not continuing to pay - an option that the vast majority of people would take.

If you were in the same position and chose to spend years just standing still paying off the 27% interest and not getting anywhere then well done Saint Chiang Mai, but If there's a legally available option to not pay, then why shouldn't he take it, life's too short.

If you can't afford it in the first place, don't buy it, nothing saintly about any of that, just common sense.

you are making it sound like he pre planned not paying back, maybe his circumstances changed, i wouldnt flog a dead horse, in you are in a hole stop digging, !

[chiang mai]

No need for me to say any more on this, the vast majority has it.

Saint Chiang Mai

[DC1066]

Hey, Saint Chiang Mai,

I'm a little short of funds this week.

Any chance of lending me 100 baht

[imaneggspurt]

Amazing, no wonder the UK's going down the tubes with attitudes like that!

To answer your question more directly: banks and finance houses have long been aware of this kind of behavior and the scale of losses that result, especially where such losses can be viewed as fraud and criminal behavior. It is for those reasons that they now go much further than before in tracing defaulters and recovering bad debt. So whilst the UK debt collectors are unlikely to come knocking on your Pattaya palace doors, you very likely may find yourself getting pulled aside by UK Immigration and asked to chat with the boys in blue, the next time you return to the UK. Unbelievable I hear you say. Well they didn't install UK passport control systems for no reason at all, did they!

The consequence of the rampant and reckless lending by financial institutions notably in the UK and USA is increasing insolvency among those who in other times would probably not have been induced by the siren charms of indebtedness.

Currently, there is approximately £1.5 trillion of personal debt racked up in the UK. Bankruptcy, repossessions and personal insolvency plans abound. The OP's position is neither remarkable nor indeed worthy of censure.

Filing for bankruptcy is now relatively painless and generally most are discharged after a year without any further scrutiny. However, given the circs outlined by the OP he may wish to consider simply ignoring the debts and living in Thailand without further ado. Sometimes doing nothing is best.The worst his creditors can do is issue a summons for recovery in the County Court but most wouldn't bother if it becomes common knowledge he is abroad with no intention of returning.The Courts have no jurisdiction outside England and Wales and therefore any judgement obtained cannot be executed against goods or assets held in Thailand. In practice creditors sell the debt onto debt collecting agencies but they face the same difficulties as the Courts ......any contact from them in Thailand may be dismissed as superfluous.

The notion that the UK Border authorities or police have a role to play is unsupported by any legislation and may be utterly disregarded.

Personally, if I were in the OP's circs I would happily remain in Thailand on a succession of visit visas obtained through Hull or wherever. Settling those debts by borrowing from his parents is just plain silly.

Best and probably most accurate post so far, well done,

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Actually yes I was looking for some advice on how to a 'runner' and get away with it, would have been great advice!

I didn't expect to be criticised because the banks were stupid, greedy and threw money at me. I took the money ok, but if it wasn't offered it I wouldn't have this problem. The banks lend money knowing they will screw you one day when you can't repay them...that's business as they say. The banks also 'factor' in the bad debts to their fees, overdraft rates, lending charges anyway..so no big deal if I don't pay them back.

Like I said before they've caused this financial crisis so why should I help them now they're struggling? I asked them for help just last week, no one is interested... They won't even give me a credit card for a 0% balance tranfer..

I have no choice...

No, you helped to cause the financial crisis by borrowing money that you couldn't pay back.

Would you blame your friend for lending you money if you decided not to pay him back?

What are you thinking? That there is only an upside to business? You gambled and you lost. Who should pay?

If you genuinely couldn't pay, there conceivably could have been more sympathy.

Anyway, I sincerely hope that your new arrangement can work. It's a shame that your parents have to put their savings at risk, but there it is..

Edited November 26, 2008 by Jiu-Jitsu

[Tolley]

At the risk of flogging a dead horse I have to say again you are not broke you have assets way in excess of the money owed.

You have a moral obligation to pay back the money you borrowed simple as that.

Your feeble attempts to justify not paying the money back are really pathetic.

There are two sides to the credit equation and one is that banks have indeed been too liberal with their lending practices but on the other side many people have been completely irresponsible when it comes to taking the credit and living off it with no intention of ever paying the money back.

The system doesn't work if everyone borrows and never pays back the money especially those that do have the assets to pay the money back.

We can always point to people who are rorting the system or institutions that may have unethical practices but at the end of the day our whole system depends on trust and people being willing to meet their obligations.

[imaneggspurt]

At the risk of flogging a dead horse I have to say again you are not broke you have assets way in excess of the money owed.

You have a moral obligation to pay back the money you borrowed simple as that.

Your feeble attempts to justify not paying the money back are really pathetic.

There are two sides to the credit equation and one is that banks have indeed been too liberal with their lending practices but on the other side many people have been completely irresponsible when it comes to taking the credit and living off it with no intention of ever paying the money back.

The system doesn't work if everyone borrows and never pays back the money especially those that do have the assets to pay the money back.

"We can always point to people who are rorting the system or institutions that may have unethical practices but at the end of the day our whole system depends on trust and people being willing to meet their obligations." ) Well heres my feelings, if you lend money to anyone without checking them out this will happen, however the op may well have borrowed in good faith and maybe,just maybe his circumstances changed beyond his control ( mine have, business down 70 per cent in the last 3 months ) then why should he borrow off his parents or give up what he worked hard for because of that, no the borrower and the lender took a chance,i for one would not give away my assets,.as i said before offer them a percentage, they WILL take it,

Edited November 26, 2008 by imaneggspurt

[Tolley]

"Well heres my feelings, if you lend money to anyone without checking them out this will happen, however the op may well have borrowed in good faith and maybe,just maybe his circumstances changed beyond his control ( mine have, business down 70 per cent in the last 3 months ) then why should he borrow off his parents or give up what he worked hard for because of that, no the borrower and the lender took a chance,i for one would not give away my assets,.as i said before offer them a percentage, they WILL take it,"

I don't understand that logic. If you have the assets you should pay the money back simple as that.

The wider implications of this are of course for people who do the right thing they have to pay more for their credit cards or loans because people like the OP are not paying back what they rightfully owe even when they do have the resource to do so.

Where is the morality?

Their is a bigger issue at stake with the community and society as a whole. Our actions impact on everyone else in the community but i guess many people just prefer to think only of themselves and not the consequences of their actions.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Tolley

[plasticpig]

name='Tolley' date='2008-11-26 09:53:45' post='2355319']

Where is the morality?

What over, Banks and money.

[Chaimai]

name='Tolley' date='2008-11-26 09:53:45' post='2355319']

Where is the morality?

What over, Banks and money.

That response sums up the non-rhetorical question from Tolley.

I see nothing 'holier than thou' in expecting someone to honour their obligations.

As an earlier poster recognised, credit will become more expensive (partly) as a result some people 'welching' on their responsibilities. The banks bring an awful lot upon themselves but that is irrelevant to the fact that if you contract to borrow money, you should repay it - if you have the means. If you do not have the means, don't borrow in the first place. There is a very good system in place for people with genuinely changed circumstances.

[Westerner]

Sadly in today's society, especially in the UK, bankrupcy no longer has any/much stigma attached to it. I suspect the OP - troll or not - can walk away from the debt legally, as long as he 'proves' he has no income nor assets in the UK. Citizen's Advice' will give him free legal advice to do this. I suspect he can even claim some benefits from the UK social system if he shows he is suffering 'hardship'.

What the OP must not do though is just 'walk away'. He will almost certainly get County Court Judgments' (CCJ) against him in the local courts and that could cause all sorts of problems in the future.

The way the system in the UK 'rewards' this sort of activity and lets the tax payer pick up the burden, is one of the many reasons I left the 'nanny state' the UK has now become.

Hey don't blame the OP for 'abusing' the system, its rife in the UK and is almost a 'badge of honour' in some social circles to screw money out of the Government

I even know one guy some years ago during the housing crisis in the 90's who did this. He had everything in his wifes name so just her credit rating was screwed. Handed in the keys of their negative equity flat and walked away. Then moved into the house he owned and carried on as normal. I kept hoping there would be some comeback on him. However apart from his wife not being able to get credit for some years - nothing seemed to happen at all. What a stupid system, I am glad to no longer be a part of it!

So to the OP I say again, no need to run anywhere, just play the system and you will be home and dry!

There's no badge of honor associated with what the OP wants to do and it can't be condoned, even if some think that lots of other people do it - there's absolutely no difference between what he intends and outright theft. And the reason, the bank wouldn't give me a credit card for zero interest transfers, ye Gods, spare us all.

There is a world of difference between this and theft - failure to repay debt is NOT a crime - unless pre-planned, and this guy's said he's been trying to repay it for years.

A badge of honour maybe not, but all he's doing is taking a legally available option of not continuing to pay - an option that the vast majority of people would take.

If you were in the same position and chose to spend years just standing still paying off the 27% interest and not getting anywhere then well done Saint Chiang Mai, but If there's a legally available option to not pay, then why shouldn't he take it, life's too short.

If you can't afford it in the first place, don't buy it, nothing saintly about any of that, just common sense.

Here, here!

[esprit]

maybe part of the reason for the credit crunch are people like you borrowing money,investing it in thai property and then dont pay your debts.good work,well done.

You will be welcome here as there are many claiming dole too and live here,are you welsh by any chance.

please don't bring the Welsh into this - Next thing someone will mention carnal activities with sheep if you do.

[torrenova]

Wow, some people here worrying about faceless banks ! To be honest, if the OP wanted to do a runner he should have at least 100-150k of borrowed cash to run from. 40k is terribly low.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Wow, some people here worrying about faceless banks ! To be honest, if the OP wanted to do a runner he should have at least 100-150k of borrowed cash to run from. 40k is terribly low.

We are not worried about faceless banks. We are concerned about the effect on the rest of us who do fulfill our obligations to our society.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Irrespective of the moral rights and wrongs, with a view to not 'burning his bridges', the best thing for the OP to do is return to the UK & make himself bankrupt - he'll have to pay a fee of around £500 I believe. He can then return to Thailand once the formalities are complete. In any event, it's highly likely that one of his creditors will eventually petition for his bankruptcy in his absence, though this would almost certainly lead to stiffer bankruptcy penalties i.e. he'll be discharged at a much later date.

[jreidy]

It's this sort of attitude that has contributed to the overall global problem.

Most governments have now commenced co-ordinating policies to combat global financial issues and recovering debt is one of them.

Recovering tax due is another, hopefully this will also ensure tax havens are closed.

Pay your debts!!, you say debt is not a crime..swindling your creditors is, and that's what your proposing.

It's the hard working, honest, taxpaying public who finally carry the burden of those who don't wish to belong to a decent law abiding society.

[imaneggspurt]

Irrespective of the moral rights and wrongs, with a view to not 'burning his bridges', the best thing for the OP to do is return to the UK & make himself bankrupt - he'll have to pay a fee of around £500 I believe. He can then return to Thailand once the formalities are complete. In any event, it's highly likely that one of his creditors will eventually petition for his bankruptcy in his absence, though this would almost certainly lead to stiffer bankruptcy penalties i.e. he'll be discharged at a much later date.

actually you can do a bankrupcy from thailand, through a uk agent, Edited November 27, 2008 by imaneggspurt

[silentnine]

interesting replies from many people .

debt is not a criminal offence in the UK. not does it carry any stigma. in fact many people would view screwing all the banks and card companies then moving to los as the ultimate gold star.

as long as the op has paid at least 3 payments towards his cards etc then there is absolutly nothing his creditors can do. they cannot prove he did anythign intentionally, there is no issue of fraud . and the moment you give all the creditors a thailand forwarding adress they will write it off.

if he does not have a UK address where a county court order could be sent then the court will follow the no order principle and not make a order agianst him.

his creditors will just write his debts off and he will hear nothing again.

should his plan be to stay in LOS then borrowing the money off his parents is wrong. they have worked all there lives for this money and he is giving there money away.

he should declare himself bankrupt. agree a payment structure of say 5 pounds per month TOTAL. and then uproot and move to los. after 1 year he can get the courts to reduce the debt to 50%(40,000 = 20,000) then after a further 2 years they will do so agian to 10p in the pound (20,000 = 2000). meanign he will have to pay a total of 2000 pounds in the end + the original fees for bankrupcy. and will have a clean slate. he will have problems getting future credit but that is better than taking his parents 30k nestegg!!

just leaving the debt could create problems he intend to ever move back to the UK. as creditors would add compund intrest and late fees and turn a 5k debt into 30k in a matter of years ! .

so bankrupcy is the best way to go.

its not an issue of don't trust the op. debt happens and if your so stuck up that your only answer is that he should suffer and pay forever and a day then you've never been there.

[Tolley]

Silentine

The fact is that the OP is not broke nor bankrupt.

He is making a choice not to pay the money back that he borrowed because he doesn't want to.

If we all did that where would we be?

[silentnine]

Silentine

The fact is that the OP is not broke nor bankrupt.

He is making a choice not to pay the money back that he borrowed because he doesn't want to.

If we all did that where would we be?

it still amazes me that people on this board become so judgemental

i live here in los. i meet people every day who screwed over there banks and CC companies for 1000's before they moved here.

while i agree there cannot be threads on here that would appear to condone any fraudulant activity it does not mean every tom dick & harry, most of whom do not live in los anyway can jump in and tell this guy he is being a "cad" for thinking about not paying 40k of debts off before he moves to los himself.

advise from people not living here is totaly irrelavent.

and when posters say it makes credit more expensive for them.. well sorry, it does not if you live here as you can't get credit. and as above if your not here i do not care what you think anyway .

flame time

ps.. to much coffee today i think. lol

[Basil B]

For those with UK Credit Cards the following may be of interest:

From FT.com Credit card industry’s probe threat

BB

[mamanoodle]

And not a peep from the OP since his miraculously found solution.

[Chaimai]

Silentine

The fact is that the OP is not broke nor bankrupt.

He is making a choice not to pay the money back that he borrowed because he doesn't want to.

If we all did that where would we be?

Wearing the badge of (dis)honour as silentnine and one or 2 other posters + all those cads who screwed the banks/cc companies before coming to Thailand.

It is not big, it is not clever and the fact that it CAN be done says a lot about the changes that may have to occur in the finance sector. Maybe going back to the "if you haven't got a house or guarantor then you can't borrow". In reality, the greed of the banks will ensure that until the personal loan/cc losses exceed their budgets they will continue to lend to people they shouldn't. Trust me, it will get harder and the automated loan scorecards will already have increased by 5 - 10 points.

Despite the missive from silentnine you cannot go bankrupt AND then make a repayment programme. Bankruptcy is about clearing out everything in one go and giving a dividend based on assets to debt. An IVA would allow for a repayment reprogramme but would involve fees, etc, etc - best route is via CAB who do it all for free.

As it is a few days now - how did the OP finally resolve this matter. Paulinpattaya - come in please.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Chaimai

[wineaux]

name='paulinpattaya'

House in Thai company name, condo's are foreign ownership so my name!! I could transfer to someone else then go bankrupt in UK, becoming debt free. I know's it's wrong but you don't get anywhere is this world by being straight and honest...

I would be more worried about having money

tied up in some, Thai company to own land in Thailand.

That door will be rattled soon in a few years time, by the powers to be.

There are risks involved in all investments. In my opinion owning a house in company name in Thailand is an acceptable risk and there is no indication of any legislation in the future that will ever change this.

There is no benefit to anyone making ridiculous claims about what you have just dreamed up.