4 Grenades Explode Near Thailand's Anti-government Tv Station

[Jai Dee]

Off-topic and argumentative posts have been deleted from this thread.

If you wish to have an argument with another member, please take it up via PM (Personal Message), not on the public forum.

Be aware however, that the Forum Rules also apply to PM's... so please behave.

[CuttySark]

So to begin...this Government is NOT democratic elected.....

They are already found guilty of massive vote buying, they just wait to get dissolved. They come from an dissolved party and they prepared already a new party for their future.

Their MPs frequently fly or phone to a criminal as they don't know what to do.

And you think that is OK?

If you can't figure out that a government which came into power due to vote buying is wrong, than your law degree was a waste of time.

The governament may or may not be democratic elected. That is subject to debate. All I know is that a government is not a government in Thailand until they are offically mandated and signed by the palace.

Edited November 24, 2008 by CuttySark

[werbs]

since my polite respone to cutty sark has been removed then I will ask again, please point out where I say there are honest police in thailand.

For the mods, it is important to leavethese things in so people can get an idea about who supports what principal here. removal and editing of non inflamitory posts is uncalled for and leaves a one sided opinion.

my post has been removed yet cuttysarks has been left in the thread, I really do not see the relevance of his comment but you obviously do, and since he has raised an issue with me then I need to respond to that comment, and thats all I did in the same manner as above.

if however you are saving space from quotes then please explain how my one line managed to push it over the edge as cuttysarks post is still there despite being just one line shorter

Edited November 24, 2008 by werbs

[Jai Dee]

since my polite respone to cutty sark has been removed then I will ask again, please point out where I say there are honest police in thailand.

For the mods, it is important to leavethese things in so people can get an idea about who supports what principal here. removal and editing of non inflamitory posts is uncalled for and leaves a one sided opinion.

my post has been removed yet cuttysarks has been left in the thread, I really do not see the relevance of his comment but you obviously do, and since he has raised an issue with me then I need to respond to that comment, and thats all I did in the same manner as above.

if however you are saving space from quotes then please explain how my one line managed to push it over the edge as cuttysarks post is still there despite being just one line shorter

Sorry... I'll go back and snip that one as well.

And please... take your argument elsewhere and do not clutter up this topic with multiple nested quotes.

Thankyou.

/Edit - another multiple nested quote with off-topic content deleted. If you have issues with moderation of this forum, please take it up privately via PM with any online moderator, not publicly on the forum.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Jai Dee
Additional comment added

[nikster]

So to begin...this Government is NOT democratic elected.....

They are already found guilty of massive vote buying, they just wait to get dissolved. They come from an dissolved party and they prepared already a new party for their future.

Their MPs frequently fly or phone to a criminal as they don't know what to do.

And you think that is OK?

If you can't figure out that a government which came into power due to vote buying is wrong, than your law degree was a waste of time.

The government was elected in a democratic election, they are in power because simply they got the most seats, how they got them is neither here not there for me, at no point have I said that I am pro government (it seems that you believe that I am), I am neutral on the government, if they have done wrong them let the law deal with that and not a mob.

I am however anti PAD and this is based on my observations of how they have gone about this whole sorry affair, stop with the lies about being peaceful etc, its obvious that this is not the case.

Time to take off the rose-colored glasses. If there is one thing that I have learnt from this whole mess over the last few years it's that holding elections and voting is not the same as democracy. What good is the law if crooks can buy votes and later change the law so they stay in power? Or change the constitution to serve their own needs? That's a democracy akin to a dictatorship, and just as lawful. Where the ruler makes the laws, and others have to follow it. Thaksin-democracy.

An independent judiciary and the rule of the law are one prerequisite for a working democracy. These don't exist in Thailand. Another thing is free press and free speech - doesn't exist in Thailand. Separation of powers - non-existant. So there we have it, a huge mess, which is the current situation. Trying to resolve that is very difficult. But it gets even more difficult with proven crooks in power and a billionaire buying people left and right. Toxin can't enter Thailand, but his money can - it turns out his money is much more important than the man himself.

My verdict is that the ruling party are the worst crooks ever, they need to go. They are obviously only interested in preserving power and making themselves richer. And the PAD are a somewhat suspicious bunch who have very valid complaints, but don't have any good solutions. Abolishing democracy and declaring people too stupid to vote is not something I can agree with.

[animatic]

<snipped for brevity>

Snip away please.

Actually you imply that with your first response.

By saying they are stuck in the middle you imply they are honest. And thus being neutral.

When it is commonly know the police are quite divided,

depending on which clique their spoils masters are aligned with.

There is no honest AND neutral police because they HAVE chosen sides.

Edited November 24, 2008 by animatic
multiple nested quotes deleted

[CuttySark]

All roads around Parliament cleared

By 1:45 pm Monday, all roads around Parliament were passable after the People's Alliance for Democracy dispersed from Parliament at 1 pm.

Source: The Nation - 24 November 2008

Does this mean that PAD supporters are limited in numbers?

[tom21]

Just looked at the news on BBC and it is a case of demonstrations again in Bangkok and showed no real interest in it. So the government’s policy of ignoring is working as far as news reporting on them

[Moonrakers]

Just looked at the news on BBC and it is a case of demonstrations again in Bangkok and showed no real interest in it. So the government's policy of ignoring is working as far as news reporting on them

Do you mean the report that is on the FIRST PAGE of the BBC website?

[CuttySark]

since my polite respone to cutty sark has been removed then I will ask again, please point out where I say there are honest police in thailand.

For the mods, it is important to leavethese things in so people can get an idea about who supports what principal here. removal and editing of non inflamitory posts is uncalled for and leaves a one sided opinion.

my post has been removed yet cuttysarks has been left in the thread, I really do not see the relevance of his comment but you obviously do, and since he has raised an issue with me then I need to respond to that comment, and thats all I did in the same manner as above.

if however you are saving space from quotes then please explain how my one line managed to push it over the edge as cuttysarks post is still there despite being just one line shorter

Sorry... I'll go back and snip that one as well.

And please... take your argument elsewhere and do not clutter up this topic with multiple nested quotes.

Thankyou.

/Edit - another multiple nested quote with off-topic content deleted. If you have issues with moderation of this forum, please take it up privately via PM with any online moderator, not publicly on the forum.

Cool down werbs. Take it easy. This is Thailand.

I'll buy you a drink if we happens to meet up. Scotch is OK by you.

[werbs]

Actually you imply that with your first response.

By saying they are stuck in the middle you imply they are honest. And thus being neutral.

When it is commonly know the police are quite divided,

depending on which clique their spoils masters are aligned with.

There is no honest AND neutral police because they HAVE chosen sides.

I do not imply that at all, this just shows how wrong some peoples perceptions can be. The point i am making is that in any dispute involving a government and the people then the police are stuck in the middle, I am not saying they dont have political leanings however it is the police that have to deal with the civil unrest, meaning they are stuck in the middle, i hope this clears it up for you.

As for the comment about their spoils masters, I am assuming that you have personally spoken to all these police to conclude this or are you just guestimating, or do you trust 'commonly known' comments down the pub as being fact.

the police are drawn from society to protect society and as such they are human beings with opinions, these opinions should be put to one side whilst policing to ensure fairness (in an ideal world).

Are there any honest police in Thailand? I don't know as I have not met them all, just a handful. some have been ok and some haven't

Edited November 24, 2008 by werbs

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Maybe one very important bit should be "stickied" to the top of each page because it generates multiple arguments over and over again: Elected vs. unelected.

While the GOVERNMENT was indeed elected, it was so by members of a party that came into power NOT by fair election but by DIRECT vote-buying ("cash-for-votes") as has been observed by many, including myself, and has been found true by the EC and hence that party is awaiting dissolution.

That party is made up mainly of ex-members of another party which was dissolved for, guess what? Yes, vote buying. And guess what? A new party has already been formed to welcome members of the currently ruling one once it's being dissolved. HOW do you think they are going into the next election? Wanna bet? Old dogs won't learn new tricks.

The other parties involved in the electing of the government are in that position because they broke their promises (i.e. "we won't work together with them!") and are no better than the ruling party.

Oh, and the advice for "whom to elect for which position" within the government was sought from a CONVICTED CRIMINAL ON THE RUN, outside Thailand even.

And the PAD do NOT want to stop the government from governing the country! BUT the government has no interest in governing the country at all, that is the problem. All they care for is to hang on to power long enough to amend the constitution in order to pardon themselves for their vote-buying as well as clean the records for said CONVICTED CRIMINAL ON THE RUN so he can come back and take top government position again, thereby once again breaking HIS promises ("... i will never enter politics again...")

The current government has one single purpose: Bring back Mr. Toxin.

And THAT is what the PAD want to prevent. As the law is in the hands of the criminals, pardon "elected government", the PAD got nowhere to turn than to the streets in good, old fashioned mob rule.

Power to them.

Thanh

[werbs]

since my polite respone to cutty sark has been removed then I will ask again, please point out where I say there are honest police in thailand.

For the mods, it is important to leavethese things in so people can get an idea about who supports what principal here. removal and editing of non inflamitory posts is uncalled for and leaves a one sided opinion.

my post has been removed yet cuttysarks has been left in the thread, I really do not see the relevance of his comment but you obviously do, and since he has raised an issue with me then I need to respond to that comment, and thats all I did in the same manner as above.

if however you are saving space from quotes then please explain how my one line managed to push it over the edge as cuttysarks post is still there despite being just one line shorter

Sorry... I'll go back and snip that one as well.

And please... take your argument elsewhere and do not clutter up this topic with multiple nested quotes.

Thankyou.

/Edit - another multiple nested quote with off-topic content deleted. If you have issues with moderation of this forum, please take it up privately via PM with any online moderator, not publicly on the forum.

Cool down werbs. Take it easy. This is Thailand.

I'll buy you a drink if we happens to meet up. Scotch is OK by you.

no problem mate, I am not angry or in a mood, just having a good discussion

[tom21]

Just looked at the news on BBC and it is a case of demonstrations again in Bangkok and showed no real interest in it. So the government's policy of ignoring is working as far as news reporting on them

Do you mean the report that is on the FIRST PAGE of the BBC website?

no the one i watched on TV

[baht&sold]

... the sad thing is that some people buy into their 'peaceful protest' propoganda whilst missing the bad they are doing to the country

It's the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality, I'm afraid. I can't think of any other reason why people would support Sondhi and PAD.

Not a Sondhi fan personally but some might be supportive of the PAD since Thailand loses perhaps up to 1/3 of their GDP (equivalent) to corruption, collusion and nepotism annually... this is the system the PPP/TRT true 'privileged Elites ' (and some here) are so desperate to protect at ALL costs, even at the cost of the future of the nation... (a rather de-inspiring cause 'dontcha think'). It appears a fair few folks in Thailand want a change, thank you very big.

Meanwhile... the UDD are demanding the PAD stop 'inciting violence' and to 'surrender to the legal system' which is laughable given the UDD's track record. Particularly considering the UDD burnt effegies of Gordon Brown at the UK Embassy in Bangkok, condemning the country for revoking the visa of a convicted criminal on the run (Thaksin, their pay/master).

The UDD also have yet to be taken to task for several of their rent-a-mob attacks, the most recent being storming a Santi Asoke Buddhist shopfront in Ubon on Friday, burning yet more effegies, busting up the place and throwing feces... (all of which was watched by the police whom did not intervene). The proud 'defenders of freedom' then visited the local border patrol police division to welcome the new Police Colonel....

I still say, divide Thaksin's frozen 76 billion among every man woman and child in Thailand and problem solved (Thaksin goes away rejected, Thailand gets peace and the economy gets a jump-start - the perfect ending)

[catmac]

Numbers anyone?

Just how many protesters are there actually on the streets of Bangkok?

The only estimates I've seen for yesterday were 40,000 in the Post (quoted in the last thread) and "from a half to a third of the expected number" from AP (also quoted in the last thread) which would give from 25 to 33 thousand from PAD's dream of having 100,000 turn out. Give them 40,000, or even 50,000 and that's still less people than turn out for a good English football match! Coupled with the other quote in the last thread that support at Gov Hse. was dwindling away to no more than 5000 hard core protesters on a day to day basis, makes me think that the vast mass of Thailand's population want nothing more to do with Sondhi and his bunch of clowns.

And then Jai Dee reports that "100 protesters have reached Don Muang"..........ONE HUNDRED, and they think this gives them a mandate to overthrow the Government (however inept this present one may be). I've been watching the live coverage on TV (not ASTV - I don't get the cartoon channel), and while there were certainly crowds, a good few thousand or so, it was nothing like the mass uprising that PAD have hyped it up to be.

PAD may well be right about one thing. This probably will be the final attempt, I don't think the next one would be big enough to even make the news!

&lt;deleted&gt;, catmac, are you just bouncing around and reading the posts that fit your preconceived opinions? There have been several posts that stated PAD's intention to send smaller protest groups to various areas of BKK (Finance Ministry, Don Muang, etc). Besides, part of the reason the world is in such a mess right now is that most of us have been either pre-occupied with sporting trivia or busy trying to make 'end's meet' to keep an eye on the crooked politicians that have been bleeding us dry. But, you are in good company here; lots of fascists that obviously work for the 'masters' and share your misguided views.

P.S. What's "a good English football match"...they're all boring as hel_l. (Now that should really hit a nerve...meant as a joke, however. Life's too frapping short to get all worked up over the Thai's political issues; especially since there are so many 'difficulties' occurring in our former parts of the world. Cheers!

Oh dear, have I hit a raw nerve? I seem to remember that when Thaksin spoke by phone to that rally a few weeks ago that your lot went ballistic disputing the numbers given by independent news reports, pages and pages of TV were filled by the usual PADisters claiming there couldn't have been 90,000 there - 70,000 at the most! Yet here we have PAD's final great leap forward, and the streets are strangely empty. "We'll stay at Parliament till Friday" screamed Sondhi! By teatime on the first day they've all b@ggered off!

No wonder Somchai went to Peru to do some real government work, he knew that PAD now is just a paper tiger, a figure of ridicule, a spent force. Thay claimed 100,000 were coming from the South, it looks like the vast majority missed the bus!

[werbs]

maybe the PAD had stopped all the buses and trains in the south so nobody could get to bangkok to protest

[BangkokBP]

Seeing the current developments I have a strong feeling that there will be more destruction very soon.

I believe Agent Provocateurs will be used from the government side to try to whip up a situation so volatile or violent that there will be little alternative for the required third party to give the pardon requested by Taksin and grant his return, thus removing the needed base support for the PAD, and hoping it will self deflate.

I doubt such a plan will work smoothly in reality

As many have said before here, It's more than likely things will continue to spiral out of control.

It is with great sorrow i see this country going into a mode of self destruct.

/bbp

[hammered]

Numbers anyone?

Just how many protesters are there actually on the streets of Bangkok?

The only estimates I've seen for yesterday were 40,000 in the Post (quoted in the last thread) and "from a half to a third of the expected number" from AP (also quoted in the last thread) which would give from 25 to 33 thousand from PAD's dream of having 100,000 turn out. Give them 40,000, or even 50,000 and that's still less people than turn out for a good English football match! Coupled with the other quote in the last thread that support at Gov Hse. was dwindling away to no more than 5000 hard core protesters on a day to day basis, makes me think that the vast mass of Thailand's population want nothing more to do with Sondhi and his bunch of clowns.

And then Jai Dee reports that "100 protesters have reached Don Muang"..........ONE HUNDRED, and they think this gives them a mandate to overthrow the Government (however inept this present one may be). I've been watching the live coverage on TV (not ASTV - I don't get the cartoon channel), and while there were certainly crowds, a good few thousand or so, it was nothing like the mass uprising that PAD have hyped it up to be.

PAD may well be right about one thing. This probably will be the final attempt, I don't think the next one would be big enough to even make the news!

&lt;deleted&gt;, catmac, are you just bouncing around and reading the posts that fit your preconceived opinions? There have been several posts that stated PAD's intention to send smaller protest groups to various areas of BKK (Finance Ministry, Don Muang, etc). Besides, part of the reason the world is in such a mess right now is that most of us have been either pre-occupied with sporting trivia or busy trying to make 'end's meet' to keep an eye on the crooked politicians that have been bleeding us dry. But, you are in good company here; lots of fascists that obviously work for the 'masters' and share your misguided views.

P.S. What's "a good English football match"...they're all boring as hel_l. (Now that should really hit a nerve...meant as a joke, however. Life's too frapping short to get all worked up over the Thai's political issues; especially since there are so many 'difficulties' occurring in our former parts of the world. Cheers!

Oh dear, have I hit a raw nerve? I seem to remember that when Thaksin spoke by phone to that rally a few weeks ago that your lot went ballistic disputing the numbers given by independent news reports, pages and pages of TV were filled by the usual PADisters claiming there couldn't have been 90,000 there - 70,000 at the most! Yet here we have PAD's final great leap forward, and the streets are strangely empty. "We'll stay at Parliament till Friday" screamed Sondhi! By teatime on the first day they've all b@ggered off!

No wonder Somchai went to Peru to do some real government work, he knew that PAD now is just a paper tiger, a figure of ridicule, a spent force. Thay claimed 100,000 were coming from the South, it looks like the vast majority missed the bus!

If the PAD are indeed a spent force (possible) then PPP will ram either the amnesty or introduce the consty ammendment bill before the parliamentary session ends on friday. If they dont I guess the PAD still have some or even a lot of strength. We will see in the next few days.

[FreedomDude]

...

An independent judiciary and the rule of the law are one prerequisite for a working democracy. These don't exist in Thailand. Another thing is free press and free speech - doesn't exist in Thailand. Separation of powers - non-existant. So there we have it, a huge mess, which is the current situation.

...

Yeah, and that's why they've achieved convictions against Thaksin, Thaksin's wife, the former PPP Prime Minister and they're about to get a conviction against the entire PPP.

The PAD are just a bunch of impatient babies. Let the courts do their job...which they're doing.

[jeffer]

By 1:30 pm, the protesters blocked the U-turn bridge to the Don Muang Airport.

Source: The Nation - 24 November 2008

Really? I drove past there at 1pm, a handful of protesters hanging around and not one of them near an official looking barrier blocking the u-turn bridge. There was a pickup full of uniformed police at the bottom of the on ramp so it seemed to me that any blocking was instigated by the police, not protesters.

[werbs]

...

An independent judiciary and the rule of the law are one prerequisite for a working democracy. These don't exist in Thailand. Another thing is free press and free speech - doesn't exist in Thailand. Separation of powers - non-existant. So there we have it, a huge mess, which is the current situation.

...

Yeah, and that's why they've achieved convictions against Thaksin, Thaksin's wife, the former PPP Prime Minister and they're about to get a conviction against the entire PPP.

The PAD are just a bunch of impatient babies. Let the courts do their job...which they're doing.

But no convictions against the PAD and no attempt to break up their trespass and crimnal activities

[catmac]

Just looked at the news on BBC and it is a case of demonstrations again in Bangkok and showed no real interest in it. So the government's policy of ignoring is working as far as news reporting on them

Do you mean the report that is on the FIRST PAGE of the BBC website?

No, globalj, the report was tucked away in the Asia-Pacific section, merely referred to on the FRONT [contents] PAGE. Nothing of interest in the report itself, save that it also gives the figure of 18,000 (what a total joke!) as the number of demonstrators in BKK. I supose with so few people involved it'll drop off the news altogether tomorrow.

[Bangyai]

I sit alone in the office

working overtime as PAD's propaganda minister. We know...

Not necessarily. He might have had baked beans on toast followed by rhubarb and custard for lunch.... chased down with a can of coke ?

[bubba]

This thread has devolved to the point where I think it's time to go find the unsubscribe button.

[CuttySark]

Hi.

Maybe one very important bit should be "stickied" to the top of each page because it generates multiple arguments over and over again: Elected vs. unelected.

While the GOVERNMENT was indeed elected, it was so by members of a party that came into power NOT by fair election but by DIRECT vote-buying ("cash-for-votes") as has been observed by many, including myself, and has been found true by the EC and hence that party is awaiting dissolution.

That party is made up mainly of ex-members of another party which was dissolved for, guess what? Yes, vote buying. And guess what? A new party has already been formed to welcome members of the currently ruling one once it's being dissolved. HOW do you think they are going into the next election? Wanna bet? Old dogs won't learn new tricks.

The other parties involved in the electing of the government are in that position because they broke their promises (i.e. "we won't work together with them!") and are no better than the ruling party.

Oh, and the advice for "whom to elect for which position" within the government was sought from a CONVICTED CRIMINAL ON THE RUN, outside Thailand even.

And the PAD do NOT want to stop the government from governing the country! BUT the government has no interest in governing the country at all, that is the problem. All they care for is to hang on to power long enough to amend the constitution in order to pardon themselves for their vote-buying as well as clean the records for said CONVICTED CRIMINAL ON THE RUN so he can come back and take top government position again, thereby once again breaking HIS promises ("... i will never enter politics again...")

The current government has one single purpose: Bring back Mr. Toxin.

And THAT is what the PAD want to prevent. As the law is in the hands of the criminals, pardon "elected government", the PAD got nowhere to turn than to the streets in good, old fashioned mob rule.

Power to them.

Thanh

One cannot keep changing the rules if one did not win. The PPP came into power in accordance with the rules, the constitution written by the military government (which in actually fact purposely written to disadvantage the PPP). The fact is that the non-PPP part still unable to win (what a looser).

On the subject of vote buying. My view is that all parties buy votes. Some more and some less. If you are not caught, you get away if it (just like shop lifting). If you are caught, you should be punish (to to deter one from sholifting). What I really feel uneasy in Thailand is that PAD claims that only PPP buy vote, while their (PAD) alliance did not. I find it hard to take.

In extreme comparision; if PPP MPs is wrong for robbing a bank; is non-PPP MPs OK for holding up a convenient store? See what I mean?

[Tod]

Hi.

Maybe one very important bit should be "stickied" to the top of each page because it generates multiple arguments over and over again: Elected vs. unelected.

While the GOVERNMENT was indeed elected, it was so by members of a party that came into power NOT by fair election but by DIRECT vote-buying ("cash-for-votes") as has been observed by many, including myself, and has been found true by the EC and hence that party is awaiting dissolution.

That party is made up mainly of ex-members of another party which was dissolved for, guess what? Yes, vote buying. And guess what? A new party has already been formed to welcome members of the currently ruling one once it's being dissolved. HOW do you think they are going into the next election? Wanna bet? Old dogs won't learn new tricks.

The other parties involved in the electing of the government are in that position because they broke their promises (i.e. "we won't work together with them!") and are no better than the ruling party.

Oh, and the advice for "whom to elect for which position" within the government was sought from a CONVICTED CRIMINAL ON THE RUN, outside Thailand even.

And the PAD do NOT want to stop the government from governing the country! BUT the government has no interest in governing the country at all, that is the problem. All they care for is to hang on to power long enough to amend the constitution in order to pardon themselves for their vote-buying as well as clean the records for said CONVICTED CRIMINAL ON THE RUN so he can come back and take top government position again, thereby once again breaking HIS promises ("... i will never enter politics again...")

The current government has one single purpose: Bring back Mr. Toxin.

And THAT is what the PAD want to prevent. As the law is in the hands of the criminals, pardon "elected government", the PAD got nowhere to turn than to the streets in good, old fashioned mob rule.

Power to them.

Thanh

One cannot keep changing the rules if one did not win. The PPP came into power in accordance with the rules, the constitution written by the military government (which in actually fact purposely written to disadvantage the PPP). The fact is that the non-PPP part still unable to win (what a looser).

On the subject of vote buying. My view is that all parties buy votes. Some more and some less. If you are not caught, you get away if it (just like shop lifting). If you are caught, you should be punish (to to deter one from sholifting). What I really feel uneasy in Thailand is that PAD claims that only PPP buy vote, while their (PAD) alliance did not. I find it hard to take.

In extreme comparision; if PPP MPs is wrong for robbing a bank; is non-PPP MPs OK for holding up a convenient store? See what I mean?

You seem so well informed that you don't know PAD is not a political party

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

PAD is not a political party, hence didn't run in any election and hence did indeed NOT buy any votes Gotcha

And the reason why the opposition can't win is because the PPP either buys or forces the smaller to parties to form a coalition with them, only that way they get more power than the Democrats who are left alone, despite having about equal as many votes as PPP (and much fewer of those bought, or they would have been caught).

Regards.....

Thanh

[Tod]

Hi

PAD is not a political party, hence didn't run in any election and hence did indeed NOT buy any votes Gotcha

And the reason why the opposition can't win is because the PPP either buys or forces the smaller to parties to form a coalition with them, only that way they get more power than the Democrats who are left alone, despite having about equal as many votes as PPP (and much fewer of those bought, or they would have been caught).

Regards.....

Thanh

Forming alliances with other parties in order to have a majority happens in Europe as well and there is nothing wrong with it...

[drronnie]

Hi

PAD is not a political party, hence didn't run in any election and hence did indeed NOT buy any votes Gotcha

And the reason why the opposition can't win is because the PPP either buys or forces the smaller to parties to form a coalition with them, only that way they get more power than the Democrats who are left alone, despite having about equal as many votes as PPP (and much fewer of those bought, or they would have been caught).

Regards.....

Thanh

Good thoughts. i second that