Pm Somchai Address Nation Live On Tv, on thai TV at 22.10pm

[Johpa]

And again this government is not democratic elected.

And again, the Thai government is indeed elected by the populace. The fact that, of the two equally nefarious factions, your preferred nefarious faction did not turn out to be the winner, does not negate the democratic aspect of the elections. And please, don't bother to bring up vote buying. Vote buying has been going on for generations in Thailand and is, by Thai cultural standards, a legitimate campaign strategy available, and indeed used, by all sides. So it is a moot point.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Johpa

[blaze]

Thailand. The only country where a minority can try to oust a democratically elected government, ruin the economy, the markets and the image of the country and still call themselves "Democrats".

In case the PAD monkeys haven't noticed it, this airport siege is ruining the economy. No more imports, no more exports. Remember all the fresh fruits from Thailand? Forget about it. Businesses and especially investors are losing their trust, Thailand is falling and falling. This is not about Thaksin anymore. Ruining the country will not bring Thaksin back.

And again this government is not democratic elected.

Just watched Abhsit on Bloomberg- he says the government WAS democratically elected- so who to believe- you or the leader of the major opposition party- and as dedicated an enemy of the government as you will find?

Edited November 27, 2008 by blaze

[quiksilva]

Furthermore the margin by which they won was not all that great.

Think what 100,000 PAD supporters could do if they actually but their energies to work to drum up support for the Democrats upcountry instead of holding the Nation hostage and endangering innocent lives.

Please leave out the rhetoric of self defense, the PAD ceased being innocent the moment they bore arms, and you don't need weapons to make a political point.

[Johpa]

Think what 100,000 PAD supporters could do if they actually but their energies to work to drum up support for the Democrats upcountry instead of holding the Nation hostage and endangering innocent lives.

Imagine their political dominance if they were to include a few programs for the rural voting populace such as health care programs or small, low interest loans.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thailand. The only country where a minority can try to oust a democratically elected government, ruin the economy, the markets and the image of the country and still call themselves "Democrats".

In case the PAD monkeys haven't noticed it, this airport siege is ruining the economy. No more imports, no more exports. Remember all the fresh fruits from Thailand? Forget about it. Businesses and especially investors are losing their trust, Thailand is falling and falling. This is not about Thaksin anymore. Ruining the country will not bring Thaksin back.

And again this government is not democratic elected.

So, when you and your buddies get two votes against 1 vote or half a vote for the rural poor, will you then finally be happy that the next government is democratically elected?

Unbelievable.. again, look into what PAD are all about. They are very much Against Democracy.

[younghusband]

Thailand. The only country where a minority can try to oust a democratically elected government, ruin the economy, the markets and the image of the country and still call themselves "Democrats".

In case the PAD monkeys haven't noticed it, this airport siege is ruining the economy. No more imports, no more exports. Remember all the fresh fruits from Thailand? Forget about it. Businesses and especially investors are losing their trust, Thailand is falling and falling. This is not about Thaksin anymore. Ruining the country will not bring Thaksin back.

And again this government is not democratic elected.

Just watched Abhsit on Bloomberg- he says the government WAS democratically elected- so who to believe- you or the leader of the major opposition party- and as dedicated an enemy of the government as you will find?

h90 has been consistently bleating the government has no electoral mandate.Like Goebbels he seems to think that a lie will prevail by simply repeating it loudly.He should be ignored.The PAD supporters who can string a thought together argue more plausibly that the electoral system needs reform ( even though they don't openly admit it's because that pesky rural majority keeps on winning elections.) As for h90's nonsense just ignore him.

Edited November 27, 2008 by younghusband

[h90]

And again this government is not democratic elected.

And again, the Thai government is indeed elected by the populace. The fact that, of the two equally nefarious factions, your preferred nefarious faction did not turn out to be the winner, does not negate the democratic aspect of the elections. And please, don't bother to bring up vote buying. Vote buying has been going on for generations in Thailand and is, by Thai cultural standards, a legitimate campaign strategy available, and indeed used, by all sides. So it is a moot point.

What is the date the court will rule the dissolution (dissolve?? Not sure for my english) cases? If I remember right 13 December. That tells all.

Vote buying is not a culture at all, and most Thais would be very upset that fraud is part of their culture, that's racism as its best.

Go in the next shop and tell the owner that he is a cheater and swindler because that is the culture of Thai people and let me know what backfeeding you get.

Reason of edit: Doubts on my english skills

Edited November 27, 2008 by h90

[h90]

Thailand. The only country where a minority can try to oust a democratically elected government, ruin the economy, the markets and the image of the country and still call themselves "Democrats".

In case the PAD monkeys haven't noticed it, this airport siege is ruining the economy. No more imports, no more exports. Remember all the fresh fruits from Thailand? Forget about it. Businesses and especially investors are losing their trust, Thailand is falling and falling. This is not about Thaksin anymore. Ruining the country will not bring Thaksin back.

And again this government is not democratic elected.

Just watched Abhsit on Bloomberg- he says the government WAS democratically elected- so who to believe- you or the leader of the major opposition party- and as dedicated an enemy of the government as you will find?

h90 has been consistently bleating the government has no electoral mandate.Like Goebbels he seems to think that a lie will prevail by simply repeating it loudly.He should be ignored.The PAD supporters who can string a thought together argue more plausibly that the electoral system needs reform ( even though they don't openly admit it's because that pesky rural majority keeps on winning elections.) As for h90's nonsense just ignore him.

So than the court lied when they handed out the red cards, because in fact there was no vote buying? Is that what you want to tell?

That the EC commission recommended to dissolve the PPP was done by some evil invisible hand??

[Underdog]

And again this government is not democratic elected.

And again, this PAD movement is illegally blocking airports and causing dramatic damage to the country.

LaoPo

Just a thought, in most civilised countries, airports are probably the most heavily guarded places that the public go. We all know the security checks we have to endure whenever we decide to fly, yet, here in amazing Thailand, thousands of people, some armed with bombs, some with guns and knives, and a lot more with clubs and sticks can take over TWO of the countries MAJOR airports, effectively cutting the country off from the rest of the world, and the government/police do absolutely nothing?

Is it me, is something just a little bit wrong here? Where is basic LAW and ORDER?

Could you imagine this at Heathrow / Charles De Gaulle / JFK? It is beyond belief, and the damage that this is doing to Thailand as an airport hub, and a tourist destination does not seem to bother them in the slightest.

[5246jlg]

Well this is the sh*ts,

The wife and I realized such things were afoot and expressed our views in the Chiang Mai Forum about a month or so ago (while we are back in the States for about 2 yrs) and vowed not to come back to Chiang Mai for 3yrs minimum from July '08 despite our investment and retirement intentions. The thing I am most surprised about is the fact that no one has nailed the root situation on the head. In the beginning there were few families that developed overseas import/export and internal businesses in Thailand. Thaksin tried to create a competitive business environment spread throughout Thailand (and get rich doing it!) and those that had the inherited monopolies are fighting to keep those monopolies and deter competitive markets to develop to the detriment of the general population. Competitive markets lead to innovation and efficiency from a Western point of view. Those that have these monopolies do not care as long as they get to hold on to the only businesses that will supply goods and services to the Thai people or are a definite exporter. They want to extract better ways to make a profit from watching competitive companies abroad but not making the investment in innovation themselves. This has been a cornerstone of Chinese advancement of late (and in the past if you know your history). I worked in China in the mid-eighties and caught them copying (off site) our process specifications to do just about everything to all material treatments and fabrications necessary for aircraft manufacturing. This is not only about Democracy from a political sense as it is a business stranglehold on free enterprise business development.

[Crushdepth]

And again, the Thai government is indeed elected by the populace.

And again, the present government is facing dissolution for electoral fraud. I don't see how anyone can consider a serial vote-buying government 'democratically elected'.

[Jai Dee]

Letter from PAD Supporter to Clarify Rally

On November 26, a young woman, dressed in a yellow shirt, was seen walking around the PAD rally site at Suvarnabhumi Airport, distributing a message in English to help clarify the PAD rally. TOC found her message interesting so we've decided to put it up on our website for everyone to be able to read it.

This is to clarify the situation here in Thailand as I believe the foreign press have formed the conclusion that the PAD has little chance of winning this final battle to topple the Nominee Government of Somchai Wongsawat, the brother-in-law of former PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

Before I say anything else, I'd like to stress here the the PAD's policy is to use ONLY peaceful means and we have proved our intention by using only reason for the last six months. However, the continuous and nearly daily violence and murderous acts committed against us have come from either the Government, or its representatives, the red-shirted United Frong of Democracy against Dictatorship, which are trying everything in their power to pave the way for the return of Thaksin Shinawatra to become the first President of Thailand.

The aim of the PAD is to rebuild a country based on integrity, honesty, freedom from corruption and fairness from all Thais: all this together with the absolute determination to maintain and honour the Monarchy. We have the most wonderful and exceptional King who has reigned over his people with wisdom and love as the rest of the world is well aware.

Practically the whole of Thailand from all walks of life has converged onto Bangkok to support the PAD. We are not being paid to be here to use violence to get our way. We are not here to support a handful of corrupt politicians serving only one man who wants to divide our country. But we are here by choice, we are here to share an ideal, we are here to realize our goal which is to rebuild our country into a better place for the 60-odd million citizens. It's actually not a question of "winning or losing" -- it's the reality of achieving what is good and right for our country -- Thailand.

Source: Thailand Outlook - 27 November 2008

[younghusband]

There's very little sensorship here, Esprit.

Mods have been cleaning a couple of threads today from ALL political comments to keep them informative, not to sensor posters and their opinions.

This thread should be the usual free for all, except the rule number 1 - no discussion of monarchy.

I think this needs to be clarified cos no all members understood this new mod policy right away.

I agree.A post of mine was deleted yesterday and the mods were quite right to do so since it wasn't really relevant to the thread.I think in normal times a certain amount of digression is allowable if it's interesting and well informed.However in these troubled times it's sensible to stick to the point.

On rule number 1 obviously one must stick to forum rules.But that's not to say discussion of politics in Thailand is comprehensible without consideration of that topic.For a full and grown up discussion one looks elsewhere.As one international correspondent apparently put it, "it's like trying to explain the unexplainable without mentioning the unmentionable".

[Johpa]

And again this government is not democratic elected.

And again, the Thai government is indeed elected by the populace. The fact that, of the two equally nefarious factions, your preferred nefarious faction did not turn out to be the winner, does not negate the democratic aspect of the elections. And please, don't bother to bring up vote buying. Vote buying has been going on for generations in Thailand and is, by Thai cultural standards, a legitimate campaign strategy available, and indeed used, by all sides. So it is a moot point.

Vote buying is not a culture at all, and most Thais would be very upset that fraud is part of their culture, that's racism as its best.

Go in the next shop and tell the owner that he is a cheater and swindler because that is the culture of Thai people and let me know what backfeeding you get.

You are perhaps a resident of Bangkok and are thus perhaps ignorant of the ways outside of Bangkok where more traditional ways of life still exist for many in the form of patron-client relationships. The political parties do not buy the votes directly, but rely upon the more local phu yais and kamnaans to obtain the votes. In return for the votes, the local folks receive, apart from a few baat, continued protection and support from the phu yais when needed. This relationship has nothing to do with cheating nor swindling nor fraud, but confers advantages to both parties. There is nothing racist in my comments, although I have always thought that there is a racist undertone to the rants of Sondhi and his PAD rabble. But with the large amount of intermarriage over the past several decades within Bangkok, and the resulting convergence of economic interests, the ethnic element is somewhat obscured and only overtly present in the negative stereotypes presented by the PAD leadership, predominately Sino-Thai, of the rural folks who are predominately ethnic Tai of one flavor or another.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Johpa

[KireB]

And again this government is not democratic elected.

And again, the Thai government is indeed elected by the populace. The fact that, of the two equally nefarious factions, your preferred nefarious faction did not turn out to be the winner, does not negate the democratic aspect of the elections. And please, don't bother to bring up vote buying. Vote buying has been going on for generations in Thailand and is, by Thai cultural standards, a legitimate campaign strategy available, and indeed used, by all sides. So it is a moot point.

Pathetic excuse and exactly the reason that the PAD should be seen as heros. They are trying to change the political landscape in this country.

Thaksin needs to be put in jail, as an example for any future money grabbing politician or police officer! If you want to kill a snake, you cut of the head!

And yes .. the Airport's closure costs money, but nothing compared to the amount of money that is being stolen by the 'representatives' of this country. Money that could be used for developmental purposes, like education and healthcare!

The present government is not democratically elected, as money was involved. A lot of Thais have sold their souls to the devil, and shoudl be ashamed of themselves! Respect for those who stand up against this all, the PAD!

Democracy means equal rights, well to help you out of your dreams, there are not many democratic values left in this society. If you have money, you can get away with almost everything! Almost that is hope. Thaksin in jail would be a reat starting point for political reform and would set a great example to all of us, no matter how rich you are, respect the law!

[TAWP]

Just so everyone had a chance to went their opinion on the matter: Is there anyone that would be oppose to say...have a Chinese solution* to corruption and do it harshly against all sides?

(*: Death penalty for politicians or officials involved in scams, bribery, swindling and so on.)

[HYENA]

The part that got me with eh opening post is the democratically elected government. No one ever thought after a coup the paid people will vote just to try to keep the peace and end it. Democracy, Thailand? Sounds like a face-saving saying typical of Thailand and typical of what the masses will hear from whoever is the most recent to have hijacked the government. The buck stops nowhere and everything else is a bunch of looking good, saving face, lining pockets. So whoever this guy is in power (same same, different name) will urge peace, claim he was democratically elected and try to gain international approval (having a complete lapse of memory about the massive coup that brought him in and the last person in and those before them...each one who literally has pilfered the country's coffers blind paying themselves, their protesters and armed factions for getting them into power. No wonder Thailand isn't even mentioned in the news in my country; it's a joke and no one can believe anything they say...the country is a mess behind all the smiles and facades.

Keep it up, it's going great! Democratic country? LOL that's like saying Thailand is Buddhist (lying, saving face, prejudice, dishonesty, scams are all opposite true Buddhist principles). LOS land of simulation/Land of Scams.

(typos and misspells abound-sorry)

Edited November 27, 2008 by HYENA