Army Chief Urged To Stage Coup

[cathyy]

The situation here is strongly reminiscent to me of the situation in the Philippines immediately post-Marcos, and continuing to the present day. After a very strong and controlling government a less powerful elected representative government has been unable to govern effectively. The "rule of law" and "democratically elected" aren't even valid concepts in these situations. Something, or somebody, MUST fill the power vacuum. Thais need an authority to rule over them, because they need to know their place in the political hierarchy. I don't think traditional Western representative government suits the culture of Thailand any better than it suits the culture of the Philippines.

This is not to say that there is not a large Thai population of people ready and able to meet the demands of a democratic government. I know there is, and most of them live in the Bangkok area. This is not to say that I think the ruling elite in Thailand should continue to use the poorer people as thralls forever. I'm saying there are systemic problems in Thailand that prevent western style government from working. I'm saying that those problems need to be eradicated first. Think Singapore, because to me Thailand has the options of becoming another Philippines, Burma, or Singapore. Singapore is my first choice of those three.

[chutai]

I cancelled my Thai airways ticket and bought a one-way to Malaysia since I need to be here next week anyways. Looks like i'll be shopping for business clothes for my meetings.

Still have no clue as to what they are fighting for, coup'ing, because they lost an election or they feel is was rigged? Anyone can shed some light?

They seem to think that the democratically elected government is just another sphere of Thaksin's influence. They (PAD) and their friends prefer and are in favour of military coups, hence increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats and the army. They also accuse Khun Somchai's government of being anti-royalist - which is bowlecks.

As you say, they just don't like losing elections.

[sbk]

Further discussion of the Royal family will result in immediate suspension.

[oosik]

Is coup needed? how much would it take for the army to round up the trouble makers and restore law and order??????????

Is the coup needed? Yes! You ask how much would it take for the army to round up the trouble makers and restore law and order? Well, I guess it depends on who's definition of "trouble makers" and "law and order" we use. If you doubt that Thaksin and his cronies are greedy and corrupt trouble makers, then you are either ignorant of the facts or among those receiving the pay offs to vote for PPP candidates. The answer is becoming more and more apparent.........time for a coup, the dissolution of parliament, and a new general election. Time to get rid of Thaksin and his cronies for good.

[Moonrakers]

Channel 3 reporting Army spokesman saying tanks in Bangkok are nothing to do with a coup attempt, but are vehicles on their way back from a 'training exercise.'

LOL, that's funny... until one takes into account how many tanks are actually BASED in Bangkok...

Same report on TOC 7pm

It is widely reported that tanks had been bought into 'forward' positions in and around Bangkok. I don't know the details but surely ANY movement of tanks/personel at such a sensitive time is highly suspect (understatement of the year?. Of course I am speaking rhetoric here, as it is hardly a secret that a coup could be on the cards.

No doubt Somchai is frantically negotiating behind the scenes with the military to call the dogs off. But then I suppose that the little rat has already backed himself into a no-win situation:

1) Take back the airports by force causing bloodshed and the military have to step in or

2) Be ineffectual, allowing the unrest to continue forcing the military to step in.

Clearly the deliberately visible tank movements are a sign to Somchai which says "Sort the country out, or we will"

I would guess that Somchai's only chance is to deal with the problem diplomatically, but perhaps with Somchai being aware that he has very little chance of that happening and with the appointment of Chalerm to deal with this, then he is willing to call the militarys bluff.

Methinks that Thailand will be under new rule when I wake up tomorrow.

[Tonyzill]

It seems everyone thinks this will go away with time. Personally I don't. I have been living in Thailand for 20 years and visiting for 30. I have been in country for 3 coups and the pro Democracy marches and believe this is totally different. Whatever pan outs in the next few days there will be repercussions. This time the situation is different to anything before and it is a catch 22.

For me the only solution is that the democratically elected government should stay in power regardless of the cost as it is the only way they will ever attain properly elected governments. It may take time but then God didnt make the Earth in a day. Patience and determination is what is needed.

[albymush]

Then why don't they <deleted> off then. Be a party and stand or just go away and boil their heads. The PPP is a political party and and Elected on at that. PAD has no rights what soever.

Be part of the system or quit wingeing.

So you are saying no-one can protest unless they first lost an election?

That sure will make it hard for you and me if, as you claim PAD and their supporters are xenophobic and want to tighten VISA further further, to make any protests at all. You are effectivly gagging yourself.

I prefer to see it that anyone with any ties to any country in any way, physical, biological or emotional, can protest against anything the government does. That is a persons right.

Anything else is fascism.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Difficult to believe what I read in a lot of these posts!!!

Here we have the duly elected government of a country of over 60 million people, being pressured by a few thousand PAD supporters. (Basically supporters of the opposition party)

Seemingly sane, ThaiVisa Posters, are almost 50% in favour of a Coup????

What would the Yanks have thought if Al Gore had tried to depose George W Bush by organised riots, or John McCain advocate preventing Pres. Elect Barak Obama from taking office?

What would Brits have to say if David Cameron organised the Tories to besiege and force the closure of Heathrow, accusing George Brown of Gross negligence over the credit crunch

In democracy the rules are simple! --- Watch the mistakes the government make, and bring them to the notice of the electorate, loudly and strongly at the next election! And hope that your policies are acceptable to the majority of the countries voters. if they are - you will be voted into power.

Make your case loudly and strongly --- but don't try to ruin the country for heavens sake

Military coups??? in a democratic country???? Never

Albymush

[rayw]

All this talk about Democracy, well come on get real this Government were NOT elected democratically as votes were brought and many reports of vote rigging too. I know for sure votes were brought from my wife's village so I know first hand that this is not just rumours it is FACT guys so stop talking about an elected Government as we have not got one here at the moment. So this Government HAS to resign NOW and do the honourable thing, if they do not then a coup is IN THE LONG TERM INTEREST OF DEMOCRACY and I would welcome it in the circumstances. New elections should then be called as soon as practical and hopefully within 6 months to a year, BUT this time totally monitored by the UN or other International impartial and totally accepted observer group with any vote rigging or buying exposed and the culprits if proved guilty locked up for a very long time and barred for life from politics.

Once such fairly monitored elections do take place (if they ever do) then we ALL have to democratically accept the popular and GENUINELY elected new Thai Government for the full constitutional term as being the true will of the Thai people, but not until this does happen, as nobody can really honestly accept another rerun of what we now have. I see no other course of action that supports democracy, best of course if there is no coup and this Government do the big boy and honourable thing and resign pending properly monitored and honest elections. Sadly I cannot see this adult and sensible option happening here and I fear without such a solution bloodshed will happen and that is the last thing any of us want. I would also love to see a true peoples' party consisting of ordinary and capable Thai folk not the elite ruling class who lets face it really do not have the well being of the poorer masses in their hearts, at the moment it seems there is no such political party. We all know Thaxsin was not the angel of the poor at all, he gave some carrots which fooled many and took back so much in return to crookedly feather his own nest, he cares for only himself and the power and wealth he can thus achieve he cares little for Thailand and I am sure our truly revered King knows that too.

Can someone come up with a real and sensible alternative to this suggestion of a new independently and impartially monitored truly democratic election ?? If not then support this call.

[favre360]

I cancelled my Thai airways ticket and bought a one-way to Malaysia since I need to be here next week anyways. Looks like i'll be shopping for business clothes for my meetings.

Still have no clue as to what they are fighting for, coup'ing, because they lost an election or they feel is was rigged? Anyone can shed some light?

They seem to think that the democratically elected government is just another sphere of Thaksin's influence. They (PAD) and their friends prefer and are in favour of military coups, hence increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats and the army. They also accuse Khun Somchai's government of being anti-royalist - which is bowlecks.

As you say, they just don't like losing elections.

Now i've heard this a few times today yet nobody can explain how PAD can loose an election it has NEVER participated in. Anyone.....anyone?

[Bastian]

i dont understand all this whining about "vote-buying", even if people are bussed to the polling places and paid, isnt the ballot itself secret? nobody can check who the guy you paid to vote for you really voted for.

if you are frustrated about the situation at the airports, try Riot Police and blow off some steam by teaching hippies how to run.

happy thanksgiving btw

[chutai]

Seemingly sane, ThaiVisa Posters, are almost 50% in favour of a Coup????

Seemingly not all quite so well balanced as yourself and others. And yet others who put their own short-term interests first ?

[grandpops]

I cancelled my Thai airways ticket and bought a one-way to Malaysia since I need to be here next week anyways. Looks like i'll be shopping for business clothes for my meetings.

Still have no clue as to what they are fighting for, coup'ing, because they lost an election or they feel is was rigged? Anyone can shed some light?

They seem to think that the democratically elected government is just another sphere of Thaksin's influence. They (PAD) and their friends prefer and are in favour of military coups, hence increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats and the army. They also accuse Khun Somchai's government of being anti-royalist - which is bowlecks.

As you say, they just don't like losing elections.

Now i've heard this a few times today yet nobody can explain how PAD can loose an election it has NEVER participated in. Anyone.....anyone?

OK slowely now... They do not participat as THEY JUST DON'T LIKE LOSING ELECTIONS.

They further cannot stand as they have no policies, no leaders (its just a mob), no direction politically, and most importantly, No popular support.

Go home sheep whist there is still hope for the country.

And how about this direct from the horses mouth.

There were also grave concerns that a coup attempt could spark a nationwide violence involving pro- and anti-Thaksin mobs as well as the military. Suriyasai Katasila, a PAD leader, told The Nation: "Coup is the least of my concern now. I'm worried about violence because nobody seems to be in full control at the moment."

Protest leaders at Government House surreptiously told their followers that "this may be our last night". With the leaders having always said the "war" would end in a couple of days, that can be interpreted as a positive statement. But with the state of emergency imminent, the remark also sounded ominous.

Protesters at three rally grounds _ Don Muang, Suvarnabhumi and Government House _ were also advised to take off their yellow shirts and put on ones with different colours if they were to leave the areas.

Nation website.

Are the PAD leaders all still singing from the same hymn sheet? No, they are thinking of saving their skins.

Divide and conquer good luck Somchai. I thought you were the worst possible choice at first but I have to say... The boy done well and is gaining in stature whilst the PAD are now exposed as the vile Fascists they are.

Edited November 27, 2008 by grandpops

[cathyy]

Military coups??? in a democratic country???? Never

You are apparently mistaking Thailand for a democratically governed country. I believe the history of 17 military coups in the years since WWII ended is pretty solid evidence that Thailand does not have, nor ever did have, a strong commitment to democracy.

[madi]

I doubt they clear the airport any time soon.

Does anyone here think the army or police will do this?

Meltdown continues

[amarka]

hi - the current government has no power....

we can all see that - they have no power because the military ( most of it ) supports PAD and will not move against them. PAD dissobeys the law and the court rulings. the police do not carry out the orders of the ruling government.

the police are afraid to move because they fear the military - a bloody confrontation between PAD and the police will give the military a perfect excuse to step in....

even worse not all the military support PAD and not all the police are against them either....

so when voilence does break out - and unfortunately it will, sooner rather than later, then this will be one big bloody mess and i doubt very much that there is any chance at all for a bloodless coup this time.........

just watch the taxi drivers attack the PAD as soon as the police move in.....

i hope i am wrong!

amarka

[chutai]

I cancelled my Thai airways ticket and bought a one-way to Malaysia since I need to be here next week anyways. Looks like i'll be shopping for business clothes for my meetings.

Still have no clue as to what they are fighting for, coup'ing, because they lost an election or they feel is was rigged? Anyone can shed some light?

They seem to think that the democratically elected government is just another sphere of Thaksin's influence. They (PAD) and their friends prefer and are in favour of military coups, hence increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats and the army. They also accuse Khun Somchai's government of being anti-royalist - which is bowlecks.

As you say, they just don't like losing elections.

Now i've heard this a few times today yet nobody can explain how PAD can loose an election it has NEVER participated in. Anyone.....anyone?

Didn't they generally support the DP as they (PAD) are a non orthodox group of fairly diverse alignments ? Of course they lost - they were influential in getting rid of Thaksin and yet the PPP still got elected.

[favre360]

Idk how unpopular PAD is, I saw a lot of people wearing yellow today. Coincidence?

[chutai]

Idk how unpopular PAD is, I saw a lot of people wearing yellow today. Coincidence?

That's daft. I like to wear blue, but that doesn't make me a Conservative. Anyway wearing yellow is the favoured colour in showing adoration for the King.

[grandpops]

Idk how unpopular PAD is, I saw a lot of people wearing yellow today. Coincidence?

Enjoy it then PADDY, it won't last even if there is a coup tonight. They are doomed as the entire free world and press is against them. Only because they are wrong though.

[favre360]

I cancelled my Thai airways ticket and bought a one-way to Malaysia since I need to be here next week anyways. Looks like i'll be shopping for business clothes for my meetings.

Still have no clue as to what they are fighting for, coup'ing, because they lost an election or they feel is was rigged? Anyone can shed some light?

They seem to think that the democratically elected government is just another sphere of Thaksin's influence. They (PAD) and their friends prefer and are in favour of military coups, hence increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats and the army. They also accuse Khun Somchai's government of being anti-royalist - which is bowlecks.

As you say, they just don't like losing elections.

Now i've heard this a few times today yet nobody can explain how PAD can loose an election it has NEVER participated in. Anyone.....anyone?

Didn't they generally support the DP as they (PAD) are a non orthodox group of fairly diverse alignments ? Of course they lost - they were influential in getting rid of Thaksin and yet the PPP still got elected.

The PPP got elected because they payed their way to the top with Thaksin's money. That's why the PAD is pissed. No one even got to vote for Somchai he was elected indirectly by represenatives. That's why the PAD is pissed. And if Somchai had asked England to promptly put Thaksin on a plane and send his sorry a** back to do his time the airport takeovers would have never happened. I believe Winston Churchill once said "I never worry about action, but only inaction" and thats why the sh*t hit the fan again because Somchai and his pals in the PPP never actually do anything worthwhile. The army and PAD win because they're the only ones that get things done in this country. Granted PAD is crippling the economy but if you wanna make pad thai you gotta scramble a few eggs. Just an opinion.

[animatic]

Then why don't they <deleted> off then. Be a party and stand or just go away and boil their heads. The PPP is a political party and and Elected on at that. PAD has no rights what soever.

Be part of the system or quit wingeing.

So you are saying no-one can protest unless they first lost an election?

That sure will make it hard for you and me if, as you claim PAD and their supporters are xenophobic and want to tighten VISA further further, to make any protests at all. You are effectivly gagging yourself.

I prefer to see it that anyone with any ties to any country in any way, physical, biological or emotional, can protest against anything the government does. That is a persons right.

Anything else is fascism.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Difficult to believe what I read in a lot of these posts!!!

Here we have the duly elected government of a country of over 60 million people, being pressured by a few thousand PAD supporters. (Basically supporters of the opposition party)

Seemingly sane, ThaiVisa Posters, are almost 50% in favour of a Coup????

What would the Yanks have thought if Al Gore had tried to depose George W Bush by organised riots, or John McCain advocate preventing Pres. Elect Barak Obama from taking office?

What would Brits have to say if David Cameron organised the Tories to besiege and force the closure of Heathrow, accusing George Brown of Gross negligence over the credit crunch

In democracy the rules are simple! --- Watch the mistakes the government make, and bring them to the notice of the electorate, loudly and strongly at the next election! And hope that your policies are acceptable to the majority of the countries voters. if they are - you will be voted into power.

Make your case loudly and strongly --- but don't try to ruin the country for heavens sake

Military coups??? in a democratic country???? Never

Albymush

Since you are comparing..

Cabinets do resign enmasse : see; Japan, Holland, Taiwan, Peru, Kuwat, Iraq..

Nixon was taken down from his bad corrupt response to dissent in the streets.

And his arrogance.

Thaksin got taken out of office for malfeasance,

but by the army because he had co-opted all other options.

This was one of the MAIN reasons he WAS taken down. And Arrogance.

Samak got nailed for his arrogance about the laws. HUGE Arrogance

Somchai it remains to be seen. 2-3 weeks seems long.

Milk toast, but he ignores NCCC and stalls courts.

Edited November 27, 2008 by animatic

[rainman]

I doubt they clear the airport any time soon.

Does anyone here think the army or police will do this?

Meltdown continues

I think they will, possibly around 2am or 3am, when most of the PAD are sleeping.

[hammered]

I doubt they clear the airport any time soon.

Does anyone here think the army or police will do this?

Meltdown continues

I think they will, possibly around 2am or 3am, when most of the PAD are sleeping.

The airport has to be cleared somehow. It is just a matter of whether the authorites follow the government order or ther eis a coup unless that is everyone is so impotent that nothing happens. Seizing the airport forces something, it is just a matter of what.

By the way, anyone who thinks the PAD and Dems and military and bureaucracy are in exaclty the same camp has a thing or two to learn. They are at best loosely allied. One of the problems with resolving all this is the pure complexity of it.

[Nostraforce]

The Thai democratic process got frustrated numerous times in history (think of the 70's protests) biggest factor in this was the excessive amount of power the military and police had/have within the post WWII balance of power in the Thai kingdom. Backed by massive american weaponry and aid dollars they have succeeded for a very long time in supressing popular demands. So I think at least part of the present crisis can be traced to the strategic 'aid' the CIA provided to it's No 1 capitalist ally in South east Asia until late in the Vietnam war which secured an extensive power base for the military.

Democracy is generally a natural occuring process in advancing societies, and as Thailand began to close in on first-world status the kingdom got it's democracy again. Still old ways don't change so easy, and the Thai democracy is still fragile as we all can see. Thaksin took a logical step in the advancement of democracy, and was the first president since democracy was reintroduced in the beginning of the 90's that finished his 4 year term. It makes sense as businessmen need stability, so in my opinion, Thaksin has/had the best cards to keep Thailand stable. Fraud/corruption will always be a point but it's also a fact of life that this just happens (especially in southern countries, Italy&Berlusconi for instance) and with a history of illegal logging, importing/exporting drugs and running taxi maffia's to finance the purchase of legitimate businesses like hotels, bars and nightclubs, the military's accusation of Thaksin of fraud looks very suspicious. Look at Suvarnabhumi, I'm sure he made Thailand a lot more money then he costed.

Staging a new coup again; on what ground can they do that? Thailand is a state of law and order too. Thaksin got deposed by charging him with corruption but the case this time is a lot weaker. Bringing in the army once more will not bring Thailand anywhere and could start off a civil war.

This might just bleed to dead slowly...but this problem will keep coming back.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Nostraforce

[BowmoreIslay]

Call it buying vote if you want. Every party in every country promise some kind of kick back if they are elected. Tax cut, jobs, underground train, new airport, fuel subsidy, free money, etc. I see nothing wrong with that. In Malaysia this year, government hand out 600 MYR (about 6,000 Baht) to EVERY CAR OWER to help on counter fuel hike (and Malaysia fuel price is lower than Thailand). Bribing voters? It can be view that way by the opposition.

There is nothing stopping other parties promising to give 100 Million Baht to every village (or even every citizen) as a developement fund (or call it anything legal you like). It is the action that counts. TRT delivers their promise (1 million for every village), which keep the poor voters very happy as they use it to buy, amoung other things, mobile phone and pickup trucks. The voters keep voting for him (and his proxy) is expecting to get more and more indirect kick-backs. Any government who promise and don't deliver (cash, project, whatever), might not get voter the next time. People do remember.

Edited November 27, 2008 by BowmoreIslay

[CL0R0X]

tonight is Thursday night, tomorrow is Friday, Friday mean there are no work for the next two day, more people will come out.

[amarka]

I doubt they clear the airport any time soon.

Does anyone here think the army or police will do this?

Meltdown continues

I think they will, possibly around 2am or 3am, when most of the PAD are sleeping.

what you think they are going to surprise them?

amarka

[Johpa]

This is all starting to look like a very intricate chess match

It is all very much an intricate political chess match, I can't think of a more appropriate metaphor. We know some of the players, with the pawns being recruited for fodder from the working poor, and as in many classic chess games that are studied by masters, there may be no pawns left on the board at the end. Yet in this game, some pieces on both sides are obscured. And as for the end game, a knight and a castle combination is always a good combo.

However, unlike the game of chess, in Thailand there is one final move required, and that is the need for someone to legitimate that final outcome. Simply declaring checkmate is necessary, but not sufficient. One can only assume that there are Shakespearean machinations going on behind closed walls.

[animatic]

tonight is Thursday night, tomorrow is Friday, Friday mean there are no work for the next two day, more people will come out.

It would make sense to do it before weekend re-enforcments make the potential bloodbath bigger.

One problem; the Airforce and Navy need to arm up for the specific job,

being unprepared for the task, that will take time.

[annamaria4711]

Is coup needed? how much would it take for the army to round up the trouble makers and restore law and order??????????

I agree with you

Why put the whole nation under duress, just get rid of the trouble makers