Mbe Degrees Are Now Proven To Be Bunk

[brahmburgers]

Just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, American advisers were sent to former East Bloc countries. Like missionaries, they went to teach former communists the wonders of western economic methods.

Every year, tens of thousands of Master of Business Economics degrees (MBE's) are churned out by prestigious universities - each costing at least a hundred thousand dollars.

American Republicans and Democrats, and business leaders alike - loudly espouse the merits of 'free markets' and chastise other country governments if it's found they pay to support their businesses. They just as quickly condemn any government assistance to business as 'socialism' and/or 'protectionist.'

What a load of hypocrites!

With the current melt-down of the US economy and the subsequent repercussions on economies worldwide, there is but one overall conclusion:

Most businessmen and economists got it wrong. Few saw the meltdown coming, and no business experts seem to have solutions - other than throwing good money after bad. Nearly every business has a junkie's need for credit - their addictions needing mainlined infusions of cash.

I once read a brief letter to a newspaper in which the writer boasted that he could learn any job in the world in between 2 minutes and two weeks. While that might not apply to flying a fighter jet or being a top-line jazz pianist or a champion ice skater - it generally holds true.

It's particularly true for biz execs - their main job requirement being; how to keep getting credit money - to feed their insatiable borrowing habits. Even established large companies rely on credit for every one of their expenditures - payroll, pensions, materials, insurance, .....you name it. The biggest financial institutions: Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, et.al., are all heavily leveraged to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. If they haven't fallen already, they're on the brink of the abyss.

Judging by recent financial events, politicians and businesspeople worldwide got it wrong - particularly those in countries whose economies are tanking the most: The US, Britain, Pakistan, Iceland, Argentina, etc. All those fancy and expensive MBE degrees are fluff window dressing - only impressive to the graduates' parents, graduates' fiancees, and the dupes doing the hiring at corporate personnel divisions.

Edited November 29, 2008 by brahmburgers

[midas]

I'm not in any way devaluing higher education because I was fortunate enough

to receive this myself in the UK. But I look at the circumstances of several

very successful entrepreneurs over the past few decades and see that many

received nothing more than a rudimentary education. Despite this they still

did extremely well.

It's obvious there are very basic business principles which are probably nothing more than

commonsense. I often wonder if learning all this extra information dilutes

entrepreneurial talents-for example making decisions purely based on gut feelings?

[PeaceBlondie]

brahms, I never heard of an MBE. I thought you meant MBA. My son has an MBA in economics or finance. I doubt that all those many European degrees cost quite that much, but I do not know. Surely the fall of the Soviet empire hurled all of Europe towards overly rampant capitalism. I agree that the skills needed in business do not require a master's degree, and can be learned quickly on the job.

[brahmburgers]

Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say 'MBA' - but the gist of the rant is that advanced business degrees have been proven to be expensive hot air - and haven't enabled degree holders to do business any better than an ape trained to beg for bananas through his cage bars. Such degrees also don't enable their holders to predict market trends any better than llama spitting at a pie chart - as witnessed by every big shot investor - getting caught with his pants down.

All is not bleak, however, on the financial front. There are still roughly the same number of consumers as there were before the planks rotted and fell out of the floor of the casino known as Wall Street. There hasn't been a die off. The main difference is, those consumers are not going to be taking out loans to buy as many foolish things such as luxury items and gas guzzling cars that can go 180 mph on roads that limit speeds to 80.

Consumers will hold on to items longer, and therefore repair businesses will boom. Also, 2nd hand places will do better. Unfortunately, Thai folks have little sense of the advantages of buying second hand. Granted there are some outlets for used items, but the potential for more is vast. Same for online buying and auctions.

Incidentally, I noticed the #1 online auction site, Ebay, is putting together a public forum to educate Thais on the biz potentials. It's really a publicity stunt, but that's ok. However, Ebay is not really an auction site. Yes, it started out as one, but with it's plethora of 'hidden bidding' arrangements, and 'buy now' options, it's becoming less of an real auction site with each passing week. Instead, Ebay is becoming more of a retail sales site. That, in itself, is not a bad thing, but it should quit touting itself as an auction site, because it isn't much about auctions - in the real sense.

[PeaceBlondie]

brahms, we agree. I already have noticed for years now, the existence of second hand clothing markets around CMai, at night markets for local people. My Thai partner shops at those places, but I still have a POLO brand shirt (red, so I did not wear it today). And you know what big business the border markets have in goods from China, Lao, etc. Used cars and used houses however, are less likely to be purchased by Thais. Still, I think the common sense of recession finances will make them change. My partner's first car was 9 years old, bought last year.

[madjbs]

Of course having an MBA or any form of masters degree, doesn't turn you into an instant guru on the subject. What it does do is point you in the correct direction for gaining the most important asset, experience.

[phaethon]

Maybe it's Master of Business Ethics...

http://vig.pearsoned.co.uk/catalog/academi...173542X,00.html

[GuestHouse]

The OP displays a remarkable ability to condense complex and multifaceted issues into a simplistic black and white caricature of reality that he can understand.

It seems education was not wasted on him.

[junkofdavid2]

I'm taking my MBA right now, spending a couple of hundred thousand baht to learn things which I more or less already know, and things which I knew that I already know,

BUT

I'm doing it because the MBA degree is a "requirement" for a lot of privileges here in Thailand.

Oh, and not to mention, lots of hot babes I get to meet who are taking it as well...

(I'm taking it in one of the so-called prestigious "top" unis for the upper-classed in Thailand)

[bendix]

Taking an MBA in Thailand?

What a hoot!

So instead of learning and regurgitating normal facts by rote - the tried and tested Thai education system - you're learning and regurtitating assine books with bold typographic covers spinning out meaningless platitudes such as 'One Minute Manager' and 'Who moved my F*****G cheese?"

Great stuff . . . . . . it's money well spent.

[Soutpeel]

Taking an MBA in Thailand?

What a hoot!

So instead of learning and regurgitating normal facts by rote - the tried and tested Thai education system - you're learning and regurtitating assine books with bold typographic covers spinning out meaningless platitudes such as 'One Minute Manager' and 'Who moved my F*****G cheese?"

Great stuff . . . . . . it's money well spent.

Excellent... .....but would add Taking an MBA anywhere, not just Thailand....in my experience in dealing with MBA's... educated idiots on the most part...couldnt find their way to the toilet unless you showed them...

Who moved my F***** cheese....great title for a book...

[brahmburgers]

I'm taking my MBA right now, spending a couple of hundred thousand baht to learn things which I more or less already know, and things which I knew that I already know,

BUT

I'm doing it because the MBA degree is a "requirement" for a lot of privileges here in Thailand.

Oh, and not to mention, lots of hot babes I get to meet who are taking it as well...

(I'm taking it in one of the so-called prestigious "top" unis for the upper-classed in Thailand)

Thanks junkofdavid2, for being honest. Come to think of it, most degrees are fancy-pants pieces of paper used to impress parents, potential employers, and not least; potential bed-mates. college and university degrees are like placebos; they don't have much substance behind them, but they often have a useful effect. With placebo pills, one's ailment improves if the pill popper THINKS it will improve. With the college degree, the holder's income improves because the person hiring THINKS the holder is better adept at doing the job.

A more sensible way to hire would be an aptitude test, but that would likely put proof behind the idea that university degrees are mostly certificates that prove a person sat in a chair looking at the front of a classroom for several hundred hours. In Thailand, a certificate is particularly useless, as test requirements, attendance requirements, are nearly nil. Much more important are your family standing and connections.

Taking an MBA in Thailand?

What a hoot!

So instead of learning and regurgitating normal facts by rote - the tried and tested Thai education system - you're learning and regurtitating assine books with bold typographic covers spinning out meaningless platitudes such as 'One Minute Manager' and 'Who moved my F*****G cheese?"

Great stuff . . . . . . it's money well spent.

Excellent... .....but would add Taking an MBA anywhere, not just Thailand....in my experience in dealing with MBA's... educated idiots on the most part...couldn't find their way to the toilet unless you showed them...

in Thailand, you're allowed to cheat on tests (or at least get a bunch of assistance), and attendance and promptness at classes - are a yawning mai pen rai.

[GuestHouse]

brahmburgers, I'm not sure what your own educational qualifications are , or on what experience basis you are consigning higher education to the trash can.

My own experience of this very day is I've was this afternoon handed the answer to a mass flow balance problem that we needed to resolve - A young graduate trainee engineer spent the morning crunching the numbers from first principals (it seems he as learned something of Thermodynamics at University) and has come up with the right answer. He'll be working late tonight doing the field commissioning of the control system he's just plugged his results into. In terms of employment in this industry, that is a very valuable skill set for anyone to have.

Not that I'm against learning from the tools up - I started my working life as an apprentice before going on to read for my degree and then on to professional engineer training - now days I get to select applicants for posts on the projects I work on.

I can honestly say, I have seldom been disappointed when we hire graduates, the brightest of which often perform at an outstanding level.

I can't say the same for all of the 'graduates of the University of Life' we employ, a large number of whom are very limited in the scope of work they are willing or able to take on. Many express similar negative views on education as your own, but then, to some extent I do understand, it can't be a nice feeling watching bright and highly educated youngsters getting on in life and making challenges look so easy to overcome.

If they also get the pretty chicks while at University, well good for them.

[mgjackson69]

MBE - I think that is a gasoline additive that was in the news several years ago because of groundwater contamination from leaky storage facilities.

[brahmburgers]

brahmburgers, I'm not sure what your own educational qualifications are , or on what experience basis you are consigning higher education to the trash can.

My own experience of this very day is I've was this afternoon handed the answer to a mass flow balance problem that we needed to resolve - A young graduate trainee engineer spent the morning crunching the numbers from first principals (it seems he as learned something of Thermodynamics at University) and has come up with the right answer. He'll be working late tonight doing the field commissioning of the control system he's just plugged his results into. In terms of employment in this industry, that is a very valuable skill set for anyone to have.

Not that I'm against learning from the tools up - I started my working life as an apprentice before going on to read for my degree and then on to professional engineer training - now days I get to select applicants for posts on the projects I work on.

I can honestly say, I have seldom been disappointed when we hire graduates, the brightest of which often perform at an outstanding level.

I can't say the same for all of the 'graduates of the University of Life' we employ, a large number of whom are very limited in the scope of work they are willing or able to take on. Many express similar negative views on education as your own, but then, to some extent I do understand, it can't be a nice feeling watching bright and highly educated youngsters getting on in life and making challenges look so easy to overcome.

If they also get the pretty chicks while at University, well good for them.

For every story of university graduates doing well on a job, you can find at least one story of non-graduates doing well on similar jobs. ...and stories of university graduates screwing up. Look at W's entire staff, for example. Thailand has a provision written in to its Constitution that mandates that all candidates for political office have a university degree. Come to think of it, that might explain why Thailand has such a dearth of decent leaders.

My schooling was limited, but my advice (on real estate investing, economics, book publishing, etc) is sometimes sought by big shot successful, rich, and much better educated people than myself.

As for pretty chicks who hang out around Universities, ....tell me how quick the cute gals turn in to shopping crazed, credit card maxing, pill-popping overweight neurotics - after the honeymoon's over? sorry, off topic.

[madjbs]

in Thailand, you're allowed to cheat on tests (or at least get a bunch of assistance), and attendance and promptness at classes - are a yawning mai pen rai.

Complete bullshit as usual from the Thaivisa armchair know it alls. You are not "allowed to cheat on tests (or at least get a bunch of assistance)", what you are saying is just complete rubbish when it comes to any of the respected Universities. If you were caught cheating then you would have a lot to answer to.

Attendance isn't checking in the UK, I think you will find (although you wouldn't know would you?). Attendance is often checked in Thailand however, and if you don't attend you may not be allowed to carry on (depending on the program)

I am completely sick to death of the rubbish farangs spew about Thai Universities, generalising them all into their "English language center" category. Most have never even set foot in a real university here, so <deleted> do they know?

[ironhut]

That's for sure.

Anyone on this forum bashing MBA's (or MBE's as the OP called them) obviously doesn't have one of their own. Furthermore, stating that paying huge $$$ to learn already known and redundant wasteful material (basically this person's definition of a master's degree)...and to explain that the extended education is only to impress women is not someone deserving of a hire.

But it doesn't stop there. The post goes on by others to try to convince that the whole education system (spec. referenced Thailand) is a farce as attempts are made continuing to denounce education.

Absolutely unbelievable. It's amazing just how many of the world's dredges end up in Thailand...and then proceed to bash the people of Thailand after being outcasts in their former land. Basically, these people don't have a home and want to rip on others to somehow make themselves feel better.

[GuestHouse]

That's for sure.

Anyone on this forum bashing MBA's (or MBE's as the OP called them) obviously doesn't have one of their own. Furthermore, stating that paying huge $$$ to learn already known and redundant wasteful material (basically this person's definition of a master's degree)...and to explain that the extended education is only to impress women is not someone deserving of a hire.

But it doesn't stop there. The post goes on by others to try to convince that the whole education system (spec. referenced Thailand) is a farce as attempts are made continuing to denounce education.

Absolutely unbelievable. It's amazing just how many of the world's dredges end up in Thailand...and then proceed to bash the people of Thailand after being outcasts in their former land. Basically, these people don't have a home and want to rip on others to somehow make themselves feel better.

Very Very Well Said.

--

Keep in mind that the OP's diatribe against education comes from not having much of it himself.... I'm a bit like that myself when it comes to super sports cars and yachts.

[PeaceBlondie]

The OP's disparagement of advanced business degree may have some limited truth for thousands of such degrees granted every year at some third-rate schools of business. It does not relate to rocket surgery or superhighway design engineers or to teachers of advanced physics and calculus, etc.

[brahmburgers]

Complete bullshit as usual from the Thaivisa armchair know it alls. You are not "allowed to cheat on tests (or at least get a bunch of assistance)", what you are saying is just complete rubbish when it comes to any of the respected Universities. If you were caught cheating then you would have a lot to answer to.

Attendance isn't checking in the UK, I think you will find (although you wouldn't know would you?). Attendance is often checked in Thailand however, and if you don't attend you may not be allowed to carry on (depending on the program)

I am completely sick to death of the rubbish farangs spew about Thai Universities, generalising them all into their "English language center" category. Most have never even set foot in a real university here, so <deleted> do they know?

Former PM Thaksin's son was caught cheating at a prestigious Thai university (Chulagong?). Within two days, the boy was let off with no reprimand, the teacher who caught him was disciplined, and the head of the university said something to the effect, "it's no big deal, everybody does it."

As a lecturer at a Thai university, I noticed, in each of my 7 classes, that students would routinely look at their classmates' desks during tests. In each class, I would educate them on why it's wrong to cheat on exams, and they gradually got the message. In some cases, I would gently chastise a group, sitting near each other, who all had the same answer to a test question - which turned out to be a faulty answer.

As for promptness to class, they also had a culture shock from me (as their lecturer), when I'd comment on their entrances - if they were even one minute late. They had probably never in their lives had anyone take them to task for being less than 10 or twenty minutes late. Whereas, for the first few class meetings, about half of my students cheated on tests and/or were tardy for class - they soon became aware of what I wouldn't tolerate. These students were 19 to 21 years old, and I doubt they'd ever been taken to task for those things.

Then there were the no-shows, or those who showed up once every several days. I commented on those to my Thai supervisor, and she acted like it was no big deal.

Edited December 3, 2008 by brahmburgers

[GuestHouse]

Former PM Thaksin's son was caught cheating at a prestigious Thai university (Chulagong?). Within two days, the boy was let off with no reprimand, the teacher who caught him was disciplined, and the head of the university said something to the effect, "it's no big deal, everybody does it."

That would be Ramkanghaeng - The student was dismissed.

The rest of your post is so far out in wonderland it doesn't deserve an answer.

[madjbs]

Well to be honest, your experiences at a provincial University, where they employ farang teachers with no qualifications, are not really comparable to any of the well know universities in Bangkok.

[brahmburgers]

Former PM Thaksin's son was caught cheating at a prestigious Thai university (Chulagong?). Within two days, the boy was let off with no reprimand, the teacher who caught him was disciplined, and the head of the university said something to the effect, "it's no big deal, everybody does it."

That would be Ramkanghaeng - The student was dismissed.

The rest of your post is so far out in wonderland it doesn't deserve an answer.

...or perhaps it's outside of your realm of experience, and you can't find words to put together for a response.

Well to be honest, your experiences at a provincial University, where they employ farang teachers with no qualifications, are not really comparable to any of the well know universities in Bangkok.

You must have a very shiny crystal ball to know the qualifications of people who get hired in other places.

...and "the well known universities in Bangkok" - are they the same places that churn out graduates who can't name two cities in any one of the countries that border Thailand? Are they the same well known universities that turn out the bright folks who grow up to become the types of chronically inept politicians Thailand's been stuck with for decades? Or perhaps they're the prestigious universities that give away diplomas - regardless of exam scores or attendance - if those students are from prestigious and/or powerful families.

[GuestHouse]

...or perhaps it's outside of your realm of experience, and you can't find words to put together for a response.

You clearly have little idea of what my realm of experience is. But be assured, its not something I dreamt up for consumption on the internet.

[brahmburgers]

...or perhaps it's outside of your realm of experience, and you can't find words to put together for a response.

You clearly have little idea of what my realm of experience is. But be assured, its not something I dreamt up for consumption on the internet.

It appears you're insinuating I was not telling the truth. Frankly, you're wrong. I related a little bit of my personal experience - as a lecturer at a Thai University. Is it difficult for you to believe - or does the telling of it bother you?

Incidentally, I started a thread a few weeks ago which was abruptly terminated from T.Visa. The reasoning was it hinted at illegal activity (though many threads on T.Visa do), and it might have resulted in lawsuits if it had been allowed to continue (it was getting close to revealing names). The point here, is that there were some particularly cynical T.Visa posters who completely dissed my investigation into whether a young Burmese woman of no means - was telling the truth about having traveled to the States. The wizened T.Visaites stated it was impossible and that I was a liar. Right after the thread was terminated, I met with the young woman and she allowed me to photocopy her Burmese passport. In it are several recent official stamps that prove she traveled - just as she had earlier told me.

In sum, it's easy to be a perpetual naysayer - especially while hiding behind an assumed name, and dissing someone you'll never meet. But there's a great big world out there - and every day things happen that might astound you - if you're eyes are open. However, if you're determined to trudge through life with your eyes shut - and piss on everything that's contrary to your limited little realm - then that's a sad spot to put yourself in.