Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[marshbags]

I think Marshbags must be related to the new chief of police. Group hug and everything will work out fine and dandy.

In any other country in the world either the army or police would have used violence to prevent people, many armed with makeshift weapons taking over the country's main airport. Why is it wrong to expect the Thai authorities to have the balls to do the same?

I am i would like to humbly think a decent caring human being and since when are the Thai authorities members of our forum ( in such a capacity as you indicate, that is )

marshbags

[Tex79]

And similarly it's wrong to label the PAD as a group of peaceful protesters. Can't have it both ways.

But I would quite happily label the majority of PAD protesters as being peaceful...

It's all in the wording and I think that's very important

Definitely the overwhelming majority are being peaceful. I think any reasonable person will agree. Most have been staging a peaceful sit-in, but the PAD are not all just peaceful protesters. Some have committed acts of violence. All have inherently broken the law, but most have been peaceful.

Trying not to get of topic but just wanting to keep this in perspective by giving another real world comparision...lets say 3% of motorists drive like lunatics this does not mean we should label motorists in general as being lunitics...but we would tend to say that motorists on the whole are not lunatics.

Yep, which is why a justifiable sentence reads something like 'the PAD on the whole are not thugs'.

Although, I will say one thing, and it's silly really getting into this so deeply, but I'm here now. Drivers of cars are not breaking the law automatically by performing the act so the analogy doesn't quite fit. As I said, silly, but if there are more or less peaceful ways to protest then I would say breaking the law by deliberately overwhelming an international airport with a large group of people, knowing the knock-on effects of such an action, is at the less peaceful end of the scale. It's not quite the same as a handful of people in a public park. All taking part, the many peaceful and the few violent, are breaking the law, so I don't feel comfortable say 'the PAD are not thugs' without those phrases like 'on the whole' or 'mostly'. The peaceful protesters just sitting there weren't unaware of the problems they would cause by joining the protest and they weren't unaware they would be breaking the law. That is inherently slightly aggressive by the choice to do it, though the actual day to day behaviour of most protesters is anything but.

Phew!

I agree with most of what you have said, except maybe we should not assume that:

The peaceful protesters just sitting there weren't unaware of the problems they would cause by joining the protest and they weren't unaware they would be breaking the law."

Maybe...just maybe they thought they wouldn't still be at the airports now themselves...it's only a possibility

Edited December 1, 2008 by Tex79

[fudoshinanzan]

And similarly it's wrong to label the PAD as a group of peaceful protesters. Can't have it both ways.

But I would quite happily label the majority of PAD protesters as being peaceful...

It's all in the wording and I think that's very important

Definitely the overwhelming majority are being peaceful. I think any reasonable person will agree. Most have been staging a peaceful sit-in, but the PAD are not all just peaceful protesters. Some have committed acts of violence. All have inherently broken the law, but most have been peaceful.

Trying not to get of topic but just wanting to keep this in perspective by giving another real world comparision...lets say 3% of motorists drive like lunatics this does not mean we should label motorists in general as being lunitics...but we would tend to say that motorists on the whole are not lunatics.

Yep, which is why a justifiable sentence reads something like 'the PAD on the whole are not thugs'.

Although, I will say one thing, and it's silly really getting into this so deeply, but I'm here now. Drivers of cars are not breaking the law automatically by performing the act so the analogy doesn't quite fit. As I said, silly, but if there are more or less peaceful ways to protest then I would say breaking the law by deliberately overwhelming an international airport with a large group of people, knowing the knock-on effects of such an action, is at the less peaceful end of the scale. It's not quite the same as a handful of people in a public park. All taking part, the many peaceful and the few violent, are breaking the law, so I don't feel comfortable say 'the PAD are not thugs' without those phrases like 'on the whole' or 'mostly'. The peaceful protesters just sitting there weren't unaware of the problems they would cause by joining the protest and they weren't unaware they would be breaking the law. That is inherently slightly aggressive by the choice to do it, though the actual day to day behaviour of most protesters is anything but.

Phew!

I agree with most of what you have said, except maybe we should not assume that:

The peaceful protesters just sitting there weren't unaware of the problems they would cause by joining the protest and they weren't unaware they would be breaking the law."

Maybe...just maybe they thought they wouldn't still be at the airports now themselves...it's only a possibility

Actually, that's a very good point! It's possible some weren't aware quite how long this might go on. It would be interesting to know (not that we ever will) just what some of the expectations were for, say, some of those jolly grannies with the rattles. I'd also be interested to know if there's any pressure put on people who might want to leave for good or take a break from the protest. It doesn't seem like they're short of numbers though, so I doubt they'd be stressing it.

[chrislarsson]

this is a military coup disguised as a civilian coup. the only interesting question is why? what can be happening to thai power dynamics to justify this. one can only wonder.

It doesn't seem like the military is interested in taking over power again.

This is a battle about the shape of the future of Thailand.

In one corner you have the team battling for continued traditional Thai corrupted democracy.

In the other corner you have the team battling for a return to a moralistic society under a monarchy similar to the ones in Europe 400 years ago.

Just pick your side!

Edited December 1, 2008 by chrislarsson

[Wolfie]

So the weekend passed with little or no action,

The Police did nothing significant,

The Army did nothing (at all),

The Air Force made it known they were not amused...

... and the government went to a Temple!!!

(i bet he was praying "Please get me out of this mess alive!!" )

[pauls2979]

this is a military coup disguised as a civilian coup. the only interesting question is why? what can be happening to thai power dynamics to justify this. one can only wonder.

It doesn't seem like the military is interested in taking over power again.

This is a battle about the shape of the future of Thailand.

In one corner you have the team battling for continued the Thai traditional corrupted democracy.

In the other corner you have the team battling for a return to a moralistic society under a monarchy similar to the one in Europe 400 years ago.

Just pick what your side!

great post . agree with you

[magisterludi]

this is a military coup disguised as a civilian coup. the only interesting question is why? what can be happening to thai power dynamics to justify this. one can only wonder.

It doesn't seem like the military is interested in taking over power again.

This is a battle about the shape of the future of Thailand.

In one corner you have the team battling for continued the Thai traditional corrupted democracy.

In the other corner you have the team battling for a return to a moralistic society under a monarchy similar to the one in Europe 400 years ago.

Just pick your side!

I was referring to the military simply as a tool. Military non-action is also action in this case. In any case I agree with what you post.

[tropo]

Even the Thai Bath is up against the EURO (70 Satang) since closing time friday

Amazing country indeed

That is really amazing. It's so unbelievable that I had to go and check it out myself.

I see it peaked at 45.99 on Frieday and currently it's trading at at 45.23...and as you say, down 0.76 from peak.

Incredible.

Fortunately for me it's still weakening against the US dollar....but more slowly that one would have thought considering we're in the middle of an economy destroying event. Live rates now showing 35.7905

[ronz28]

Thai Baht continues to weaken against the US dollar since February from under 30 now at about 35.70

Thai Baht to US Dollar

http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=USDTHB...amp;a=v&p=s

[Journalist]

From today's Wall Street Journal......featuring a comment from none other than Sunbelt Asia's Greg (its Showtime) Lange.

Way to go Greg !

Yes, we have no avocadoes, we have no avocadoes today......

Protracted Thai Crisis Is Choking Its Economy

<h3 class="byline">By PATRICK BARTA</h3> more in World » BANGKOK -- Thailand's protracted political crisis is choking its economy and deeply scarring the country's image as a popular global tourist destination.

As a siege of Bangkok's two main airports by antigovernment protesters continued Sunday amid escalating violence, the nation of 65 million faced coping indefinitely without its main air links to the outside world.

The standoff between Thai authorities and thousands of protesters occupying the airports intensified through the weekend. More than 50 people were injured in a series of explosions Sunday, including a grenade attack at the offices of Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, which antigovernment protesters have occupied since August. At least four victims were in serious condition at hospitals, according to the Associated Press.

View Full Image

Associated PressAn injured anti-government protester is carried on a stretcher after an explosion during a protest at government house Sunday. On Saturday, a convoy of 400 protesters attacked a police checkpoint near the country's biggest international airport, Suvarnabhumi, smashing car windshields. The protesters have threatened to blockade Thai seaports, as well, if the government doesn't resign.

On Sunday night, a Bangkok private television channel said protesters had agreed to let 88 aircraft fly out of Suvarnabhumi, but Dow Jones Newswires said officials from the company managing the airport couldn't immediately be reached for confirmation.

Mr. Somchai declared a state of emergency at Bangkok's airports Thursday and ordered police to clear them of protesters. But the government backed off the next day, apparently fearing that it would require force to drive them out. Political analysts said Mr. Somchai couldn't count on the full support of police and Thailand's powerful military commanders to end the airport sieges, which began last Tuesday.

Speculation over a possible military coup continued to circulate in Bangkok, a city of more than six million people that has seen numerous military takeovers. But Army commanders have repeatedly denied they intend to intervene in the current stalemate.

The protesters, who call themselves the People's Alliance for Democracy, first overran Suvarnabhumi airport. They seized the domestic airport a day later, severing the capital from all commercial air traffic. Mr.Somchai has been running the government from the northern city of Chiang Mai since last week because of security concerns in the capital.

To the protesters, Mr. Somchai's government is acting as a proxy for former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a populist leader who was ousted in a military coup in 2006 and has gone into self-exile to avoid imprisonment on corruption charges. Mr. Somchai is Mr. Thaksin's brother-in-law and his government -- dominated by pro-Thaksin politicians -- enjoys strong support among many Thais, mainly the rural poor. But it is adamantly opposed by many in the traditional Bangkok political and business establishment and the city's middle class.

Thailand faces another potential flashpoint later this week, when the country's Constitutional Court is expected to rule on whether the main party in Mr. Somchai's government should be dissolved for allegedly violating election laws during parliamentary elections in December 2007. If the court rules against Mr. Somchai's party, many of its senior leaders could be banned from politics.

Whatever happens, the impasse has left Bangkok residents scrambling to run their businesses and personal affairs without the ability to travel or trade easily with the outside world.

Thailand is a major international hub for light manufacturing, including electronics and auto parts, and a critical link in many multinational companies' supply chains. It's also among of the world's largest exporters of rice, sugar and other agricultural products.

Many businesses rely heavily on Bangkok's airports to move their goods and supplies, especially Suvarnabhumi, a $4 billion facility opened two years ago, normally moves about 100,000 passengers a day. Bangkok handles an estimated 3% of the world's air cargo.

Some businesses are now sending goods for export roughly 1,000 kilometers overland through Thailand's southern neighbor, Malaysia. But that involves a full day's journey by road or rail through stretches of southern Thailand, where a bloody Islamic separatist insurgency has left 3,000 people dead since 2004.

Officials at Thailand's Board of Investment said Friday that customs officials at the Malaysian border "cannot cope" with all the traffic, and were planning to keep checkpoints open around the clock to move more vehicles.

The impact of the airport sieges is spreading by the day. Thailand's postal service says it has 23 metric tons, or 240,000 pieces of mail waiting to be delivered. At Bumrungrad International, an ultramodern Bangkok hospital popular with foreigners, an official says two dozen patients or more wanted to check out, but couldn't because they had nowhere to go.

Bookazine, a Bangkok bookstore chain, said it was struggling to get some international publications because distribution of the international press "has effectively shut down," says Robert Pfaff, the company's managing director. Villa Market, a popular supermarket chain that specializes in imported goods, said it was running out of fresh fruits and vegetables.

Greg Lange, owner of Sunrise Tacos, a Bangkok chain of Mexican-food restaurants, says his biggest problem is getting avocadoes. His recipe requires avocadoes from New Zealand or Australia, and his normal supplier is unable to source them. "I'm just praying by next week it will end," he said.

For other businesses, there was no obvious solution. Thailand's gold-trading industry has already suffered millions of dollars in losses, said Wichai Sangjaruentrakul, deputy managing director of Toh-Kung Gold Trader Company Partners Ltd. in Bangkok's Chinatown district. His company buys gold bars from local investors and resells them overseas. But much of his gold is stuck in cargo, he says, making it impossible to complete sales to keep his business funded.

"We might need to stop buying gold or even close the shop" if cargoes don't move soon, he says.

The National Economic and Social Development Board, a state planning agency, estimated Thailand could suffer 146 billion baht ($4.12 billion) in losses from airport closures, a government spokesperson said.

Finance Minister Suchart Thada-Thamrongvech said Friday that economic growth could fall to 2% next year from a previously projected 4% because of the upheaval. "It will take more than a year, to revive confidence," he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Olarn Chaipravat, who oversees economic affairs, added that the number of foreign tourist arrivals next year is expected to fall by half to about six to seven million, resulting in as many as one million job losses. Before the airport siege tourist revenue was projected at about $17.4 billion this year.

An estimated 100,000 or more people are struggling to leave the country for business or just to return from ruined vacations. Some are trying to get out by driving eight hours or more to catch a ferry to the Malaysian resort of Langkawi, or via overnight trains to Chiang Mai in the north, which has an international airport.

Thailand has diverted some air traffic to smaller regional airports -- including a mainly military airport at U Tapao a few hours drive from Bangkok. But they, too, are now overwhelmed with hoards of frustrated would-be passengers.

Meanwhile, the protesters appeared to be digging in for a protracted standoff and were using sophisticated tactics -- along with their primitive weapons -- to shore up their positions. Guards with sticks and metal bars set up fortified roadblocks at the airports, eyewitnesses said. Some of the guards, many of them youths, wore body armor and face masks and carried wooden stakes.

—Wilawan Watcharasakwet and James Hookway contributed to this article.

[rainman]

Constitution Court Decision Might Not be Tomorrow

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 12/01/2008 05:30:00 PM

Matichon reports the head of the EC as stating that he doesn't expect the decision tomorrow. It might be 7-10 days, but notes that it is up to the Court.

Source: http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...03&catid=01

Not sure if anyone has seen this quite important news, but it seems the EC won't rule on PPP as expected tomorrow, but in about 7-10 days.

[fudoshinanzan]

On Saturday, a convoy of 400 protesters attacked a police checkpoint near the country's biggest international airport, Suvarnabhumi, smashing car windshields.

400? Wow, that is not a small number. I thought we were talking tens of PAD in that incident. Not cause to call the violent minority the majority, but still, that's a lot of angry protesters spoiling for a fight.

Edited December 1, 2008 by fudoshinanzan

[robee]

Constitution Court Decision Might Not be Tomorrow

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 12/01/2008 05:30:00 PM

Matichon reports the head of the EC as stating that he doesn't expect the decision tomorrow. It might be 7-10 days, but notes that it is up to the Court.

Source: http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...03&catid=01

Not sure if anyone has seen this quite important news, but it seems the EC won't rule on PPP as expected tomorrow, but in about 7-10 days.

so the airports will probably stay in cutrrent state of affairs until 7 days or more.

[Publicus]

this is a military coup disguised as a civilian coup. the only interesting question is why? what can be happening to thai power dynamics to justify this. one can only wonder.

It doesn't seem like the military is interested in taking over power again.

This is a battle about the shape of the future of Thailand.

In one corner you have the team battling for continued traditional Thai corrupted democracy.

In the other corner you have the team battling for a return to a moralistic society under a monarchy similar to the ones in Europe 400 years ago.

Just pick your side!

Well summarized and concisely presented.

[rainman]

Constitution Court Decision Might Not be Tomorrow

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 12/01/2008 05:30:00 PM

Matichon reports the head of the EC as stating that he doesn't expect the decision tomorrow. It might be 7-10 days, but notes that it is up to the Court.

Source: http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...03&catid=01

Not sure if anyone has seen this quite important news, but it seems the EC won't rule on PPP as expected tomorrow, but in about 7-10 days.

so the airports will probably stay in cutrrent state of affairs until 7 days or more.

And another 7 days until the airports are certified again. Remember the airport director said that it takes 7 days to certify the airport again once PAD leaves. So that makes at least 14-17 days of more airport closures. Add another 4 days until something is likely to happen, that makes 18-21 days more. How much will be left of the import/export and tourism sector in 3 weeks? Nothing.

[GraemePaul]

I hope this does not go beyond this week and that after Friday an address to the nation will be made that will help cool heads and get the airports open again.

[tropo]

LOL .. what? It simply isn't terrorism. Nobody is terrorized by this though many people are hurt financially and some are inconvenienced.

So let's ask someone "objective" ....

The BBC --- nope they aren't calling them terrorists

anti-government groups took over two airports last week.

Thailand protesters attack police

CNN --- nope they aren't calling them terrorists

aljazeera? --- no not them either

Wow ... nobody objective is calling them terrorists ... not even George W Bush is!

Somchai isn't calling them terrorist ....

The Thai press isn't calling them terrorists

Leaving some obviously misguided people on T.V. about the only ones calling them terrorists!

It should be pretty obvious to you that the mainstream media must choose their words more carefully than TV members. They have constraints we don't have.

It's a huge event internally, but on the world stage it hasn't escalated enough to be of too much interest to outsiders. They need blood.

I'm calling it terrorism

[Genghis]

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

Really because the video I saw of PAD shooting does not show any one shooting at them, attacking them... nope just PAD shooting...

LOL ... Cool! so you disregard all the reports about the events unless ...

So you're saying they were provoked.

Shooting back at someone is peaceful protest?

Oh dear.

Self-Defense is absolutely justified ... 'shooting back at someone' is self defense (in this case I hope they arrest the guys in that group and see if there is enough to put them on trial for assault with intent ...)

This does not change the fact that the PAD are peaceful and have shown great restraint. What is appalling though is the lack of condemnation on here about the grenade attacks, deaths caused by the police, etc!

For gods sake, what PAD is doing will probably end up costing the Thai economy more than 50 billion dollars and push millions of Thai people into unemployment. And there will be nothing good coming out of this by the end, just more hatred and a more divided country.

YES! People seem to think that economic damage is just economic damage. That is not true. It can be lethal. How many people will lose their jobs/livelihoods because of the airport shut-down? The airport will probably recover, but what if they have to lay off people? What if they lay off, e.g. 10% of their janitorial staff? And the janitor who loses his job cannot find another one, and his baby falls ill. He can no longer afford the health care she needs, and she dies. This is one example only-- but if we agree that this protest will increase poverty, and that poverty and mortality are linked, how can we not say that this act is a true act of terrorism that will cost lives? In many Western countries the law is such that if a person dies indirectly while one is in the course of committing a crime (and the airport takeover is a criminal act), that person committing the act may be prosecuted for murder. If it can be proven that a single person loses their life because of the economic ramifications of this protest, I would hope that every single person involved with it should be prosecuted for murder. The PAD is committing an act of terrorism. Economic terrorism may be less shocking and obvious than physical terrorism, but it can have similar results. Thus, while someone above said 'the majority of the PAD protesters are peaceful', I vehemently disagree... it does not take the wielding of a baseball bat to be a violent (albeit indirectly so) terrorist.

While on the subject, has anybody asked as to what has happened to imported medicines? I don't know about this, but I am worried that some life-saving medications may not be reaching the country due to the airport shutdown. Does Thailand produce it's own insulin? chemotherapy drugs? HIV drugs? Heart disease drugs? Again I don't know, but this could become an issue. If so, again, I think every 'protester' at the airports should be held responsible.

[permanent_disorder]

Rainman.

You heard about the 60 year old man who was dragged from his car and brutally beaten up and shot in the head in Chiang Mai then? Eye witnesses say they cannot recognise anyone but they were all dressed in RED, so that clears everyone dressed in yellow at the airports,I think your terrorist theory is seriously flawed.

phupaman

i ws told that story 5 or more time. all the time i did ask for a prove a link. i got no anwser.

there was one Report on TOC channel. but TOC channel is know for reporting false news. like the first entry in this thread here, reports a shooting that never happen.

the shooting at the bangkoker taxi radio station, the yellow shirt mob rage attack. did happen. reports on CNN, BBC and i guess also other international media EXEPT,. PAD propadanda channel TOC.

that is a SCUM NEWS channel.

have you heard about that little man with a white beard and a red coat? he will bring you lots of candy if you just go to the airport and tell them that they got mistaken for terrorist and better go home.

problem solved!

and one riddle. there is a bar and all woman wearing no- shirts. are they innocent?

Edited December 1, 2008 by permanent_disorder

[victor15]

BANGKOK, Thailand — Thai riot police used a cheap Chinese tear gas that contained an explosive powerful enough to rip craters in the ground to disperse crowds of anti-government protesters last week, an investigator said Monday.

Can't vouch for Thailand, but I know for sure the rozzers in Burma used the same low quality crowd control devices.

But my take on this whole event. I simply can't believe, if i was Thai, anyone would vote for this mob who has held the country to ransom & taken countless thousands of innocent tourists hostage (and before the flame, if the only door is barred by someone, you're being held against your will). Sure there are "other means" - but not on a package tour.

An act like this will only provoke violence - and I think this part of the world has seen enough recently.

The P.A.D. is not a political party, they cannot be voted for.

[Nampeung]

What a lot of drivel - 'imported medicines not getting into the country' ' PAD are responsible'!!! God if you were talking about BURMA I'd agree but Thailand!!! What a joke!!! Of course medicines etc are getting in!!! It's only one airport, all the others are open and all the borders are passable! Some people have never been in a real crisis obviously...

[Livinginexile]

What a lot of drivel - 'imported medicines not getting into the country' ' PAD are responsible'!!! God if you were talking about BURMA I'd agree but Thailand!!! What a joke!!! Of course medicines etc are getting in!!! It's only one airport, all the others are open and all the borders are passable! Some people have never been in a real crisis obviously...

All what other airports? Where can all the cargo planes land? are you talking about phuket and CNX?

My goodness what are you talking about?

Blood products?

Donor organs?

Are you sugesting sending them overland through Cambodia? Burma perhaps?

Some people have absolutely no idea.

Thailand is losing billions $ and insocent people are suffering.

It's time to get these PAD terrorists out.

[Wolfie]

Livinginexile

Rating: 2

post Today, 2008-12-01 19:51:50

Post #1706

Senior Member

****

Group: Members

Posts: 475

Joined: 2006-07-12

You real name isnt Somchai, is it?

[Genghis]

What a lot of drivel - 'imported medicines not getting into the country' ' PAD are responsible'!!! God if you were talking about BURMA I'd agree but Thailand!!! What a joke!!! Of course medicines etc are getting in!!! It's only one airport, all the others are open and all the borders are passable! Some people have never been in a real crisis obviously...

I did not claim that medicines weren't getting in-- only simply asking if they were.

OK, let's forget medicines. Are mangoes getting out of the country? I know for a fact that they are not. One of my best friends, a Thai, runs a small business exporting mangoes, and now is prime mango harvesting season. She is already ruined because of this protest. She has a huge stock of mangoes rotting, and her business is totally and utterly screwed. There is no way she can recover. She just bought a small condo and a car, and will undoubtedly now lose both. Just an hour ago she was on the phone with my wife, crying her eyes out. Her life and dreams have been seriously damaged by the acts of the PAD. That is terrorism. That is an unbridled disregard for other people. That is unacceptable.

By the way, you are wrong-- it's not one airport, it's two. And the shutdown of these airports have led to a shortage of trucking, as everyone is desperate to ship their goods out of Bangkok. I know, because my mango friend has tried to secure trucks to get her products out to other airports, and there is barely an available truck left, and they are asking for a lot more money than usual. Yes, you are right, other borders are passable, but if all the trucks are occupied that doesn't help too much, now does it? Do you suggest she should transport mangoes, 3 crates at a time, in her little Toyota?

Edited December 1, 2008 by Genghis

[Jobie]

Does anyone know the situation regarding Christmas post?

I want to send some Christmas cards to my family in Europe and I was wondering if anybody knew if airmail was being re-routed via other airports.

Merry Christmas!

[rainman]

Does anyone know the situation regarding Christmas post?

I want to send some Christmas cards to my family in Europe and I was wondering if anybody knew if airmail was being re-routed via other airports.

Merry Christmas!

Nothing is getting out. Thailand Post has several hundred tons of mail sitting and waiting for the crisis to be over. I personally have 2 million Baht worth of Christmas cargo at the airport. I've accepted the fact that this is lost several days ago already. Who do I send the 2 million Baht bill to? PAD?

[permanent_disorder]

Hey all of you complainers - Thai tourism will not take a knock except for this immediate few weeks. There's no way all the back packers, package holidayers and se* tourists are concerned -

this won't affect them travelling to Thailand at all. Grow up and realise that Thailand needs change, a lot of change. Mega change...

that lot of MEGA change is that scarry one. i pointed it out a couple of times. PPP is gone - "New Politics" comes immediately, that was promised by the PAD. and so comes "New Eco- Economics"

there is no need for airports or tourists, there is also no need for expats. thailand will become an isolated land, free of any devil influence from outside.

thats isn't only about your poster boy thaksin. any doubts left that they are not total hard core?

such MEGA changes will be done in one flush.

or about what changes you talking about? is there a second part coming? i can only hope your ... meaning good news.

PADs New Economy:

nationalism, ecology and right wing anti-(finance) capitalistism vs. globalisation & liberalisation

that is one of the main points we should look at. New Politics, democratic or whatever, is in the PAD cult ideology only the instrument to push the demand for New Economy

a strong dislike of a open market and competition. a strong dislike of the "international money", a strong nationalistic back to our former proud movement.

thaksin is most hated by them, because he conducted business with foreigners.

after announcement of "new politics" 2 weeks ago, they now start to talk about their demands on economics. look here http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/TOC/ViewData...?DataID=1009497 .

we can not discuss the "Sufficiency Economy" for a reason. this is also a main point in the PAD propaganda against thaksin. for the PAD thaksin was againts "Sufficiency Economy".

but the PAD cult goes much more further that wise advise. and i think we should have look at it:

"buddhist economy" for the economic the PAD cult follow ideas like E. F. Schumacher’s "Small is Beautiful", because is idea of small local trade and so on is a perfect plan to live out their nationalistic and xenophobic mania. schuhmacher says no to global trade and no to export for the sake of nature. no to speculation, no to live in cities. give that concept in the hand of some lunatics it's a perfect tool to isolate the country.

ecology-oriented moralist & do-gooder. for schuhmacher and fellows there is no need for further economic grow, it's enough already.

the PAD cult starts some strange "society experiment". in the past was everyting better, a perfect idyll, innocent people in balance with the nature. the enemy is the modernity, the consumerism, the greed for money. they want go back to the good old days. no reason for a fisherman to rent his hut to a tourist for money. the fisherman can be happy with his fish, he don't need more and more and more. stop. the tourist, the global traveller have a bad impact on mother nature,CO2and so on. and he would bring the poisonous idea of cosumerism to the virgin mind of the fisherman kids. that is the point where some people here from the PAD stage "pit prateat thai"

PAD cult are hard core environmental moralists. in the idea of localism is no space for tourism.

and of course no investment, no mega projects. but back to the country side, small happy village people funny farms. a Mesoputopia vision. no reason for foreigners be here.

those people total nuts.

i met such schuchmacher believers before. they a dreamers and gaga. just google the name, read some papers from the schuhmacher society and how this schuhmacher dream could be become reality in a 3rd world experiment. that includes among other odd things ideas like that the kids of our fisherman or a fmer son don't have to go to the school in the city. there they learn a lot of things even about einstein (a main main culprit for schuhmacher). but they don't need that knowlogde, the opposite at school the kids unlearn how to live in balance with nature and how to live & survive with the nature, the original condition. the moralists also blame the TV, anything modern.

i don't want link here a schuhmacher/ "buddhist economy" analysis. if you google you will find many stuff, mostly written by apologists and epigones, schumacher worshippers. you can do a study of sources and have to think for yourself.

partly it sounds pretty cool and like a good solution, can be convincing. we can take or should take words like the one of schuhmacher as a reminder that we should not forget mother nature in a monkey race for peanuts and money. but there is a danger if that more or less esoteric idea becomes the power anyone have to obey

don't laugh about someone who hear from the PAD stage "pit prateat thai, falang go out".

can you 100 % exlude that something like this was said? there are a lot of things that worries me when i see the PAD and others are concerned to. don't follow to blind a new idea, think more than twice, check other opinions and cross check your own.

be more concerned and start to listen what is actually said on the PAD stage.

New Politics just the concept how the " good people to manage the country and blocking of evil people from coming to power" okay, let's get rid of thakin and his proxies, get rid of corruption and so on. and maybe PAD style is the only way to do it. thaksin is much more than just a corrupt politician. for the PAD he is the symbol of a economic system they hate. that system is capitalism, a free and liberal market, the age of globalisation.

and if we have finally the good people in power. what those good people are up to is the question

Pipob Thongchai expressed his agreement with another PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul to resort back to what he referred to as Eastern style economic system. Pipob said he agreed with Sondhi’s proposal for Thailand to try to restore its economic balance and push for environmentally sustainable economic development.

Pipob asserted that the balance between the environment and national revenue has been distorted by the Thaksin regime. He cited the Thaksin’s regime economic liberalization efforts as some of the greatest threats to the Thai economy. TOC

PAD founder and media baron Sondhi Limthongkul is leading the backlash. In contrast to Thaksin, who often spoke of elevating Thailand to the ranks of the developed world, Sondhi advocates a "reasonable society" no longer burdened by debt and obsessed with "how many cars or washing machines" people own. He favors limits on foreign investment, opposes privatization of utilities and warns, "Don't impose a free trade, consumer-oriented society on Thailand."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157506

sounds good? don't forget the green & the brown SCNR

For many such people, it may come as a surprise to learn that the history of ecological politics has not always been inherently and necessarily progressive and benign. In fact, ecological ideas have a history of being distorted and placed in the service of highly regressive ends--even of fascism itself. As Peter Staudenmaier shows in the first essay in this pamphlet, important tendencies in German "ecologism," which has long roots in nineteenth-century nature mysticism, fed into the rise of Nazism in the twentieth century. During the Third Reich, Staudenmaier goes on to show, Nazi "ecologists" even made organic farming, vegetarianism, nature worship, and related themes into key elements not only in their ideology but in their governmental policies. Yet some of the themes that Nazi ideologists articulated bear an uncomfortably close resemblance to themes familiar to ecologically concerned people today.

Fascist Ecology: The "Green Wing" of the Nazi Party and its Historical Antecedents

http://www.spunk.org/library/places/german...1630/peter.html

[Genghis]

Does anyone know the situation regarding Christmas post?

I want to send some Christmas cards to my family in Europe and I was wondering if anybody knew if airmail was being re-routed via other airports.

Merry Christmas!

DHL is getting packages out. They are shipping them to Singapore, through Hong Kong, and to the States. My package sent on Thursday will arrive today. That is one option, though expensive. I believe Thai Post is completely &lt;deleted&gt; though.

[victor15]

What a lot of drivel - 'imported medicines not getting into the country' ' PAD are responsible'!!! God if you were talking about BURMA I'd agree but Thailand!!! What a joke!!! Of course medicines etc are getting in!!! It's only one airport, all the others are open and all the borders are passable! Some people have never been in a real crisis obviously...

All what other airports? Where can all the cargo planes land? are you talking about phuket and CNX?

My goodness what are you talking about?

Blood products?

Donor organs?

Are you sugesting sending them overland through Cambodia? Burma perhaps?

Some people have absolutely no idea.

Thailand is losing billions $ and insocent people are suffering.

It's time to get these PAD terrorists out.

U-tapao (military) airport between Pattaya - Rayong is open and sending holiday makers home, Chiang Mai airport is also international, there are also many small airports that can accept smaller planes.

[Alliecat]

xmas cards: Ahhhh email?

People losing business.

What would you prefer? Do it now while there is still some chance of order being maintained or do it later...?