Powerful Water / Shower Heaters

[torrenova]

My current shower heater is old and though that is probably some of the problem, I think the intensely cold water we have here in Buriram at the moment is the main problem. This model has a power usage of 3500w which, if replaced with something much more powerful, should sort the problem of only luke warm water.

Any ideas ?

Also, cost to replace (electrician) and rough costs to put in house where no electric (except light) in bathroom ?

[Crossy]

You should be able to get a 7 or 8 kW unit (twice as powerful as your current one) which will give you nice hot water.

You'll need to run 6mm² cable protected by a 32A breaker for a 7kW or 10mm² cable and a 40A breaker for a 8kW unit.

Costs will vary with the length of cable required but labour should be cheap.

Remember to ground your new heater and if you don't already have one install an ELCB / RCCB / RCD / Saf-T-Cut.

EDIT Check your meter is capable of providing the required power, a 5/15 will go pop

Edited December 2, 2008 by Crossy

[PeaceBlondie]

Perfect timing, Crossy. I was shivering tonight. We are building a new little house and I was planning to install a 7KW or 8KW. The breaker box (for an otherwise normal two room house) should have what size entrance box and breakers?

[dotcom]

You mean a storage hot water heater or an instant shower?

Siebel make good instant hand showers.

[dotcom]

Crossy. Wire in Thailand is sold by diameter not cross sectional area? Correct? Ergo 10 mm or 16 mm wire. 8,000 watt is 33 amps.

[PeaceBlondie]

You mean a storage hot water heater or an instant shower?

Siebel make good instant hand showers.

I meant hand held. I haven't had gas-fired "boilers" since we swapped the 50,000 BTU 50 gallon house for a triplex with two 30-gallon 30,000 BTU heaters. Now I am happy with hand held. We may start with our used hand-held which has maybe 3 or 4 KW, but I want the service entrance for the home to be able to handle at least one 7 KW hand-held heater later. We will have air con in a 7 by 4 meter main room, and regular modern appliances.

[dotcom]

Yeah Blondie. Pencil in a 15/45 power meter. 16 or better 35 mm wires from meter to load center.

I have 100 amp but I think you are ok with 60 plus. - run 100 amp if you thiunk you might add extra stuff later. My stove pulls 4000 watts & I have 6 air cons & a whirlpool dryer & an Aristion 70 liter water heater.

Like crossy says buy 2 breaker boxes - one protected & one not (FOR AIR CONs, food freezers etc).

P.S. was asking torrenova what type he wants.

Edited December 2, 2008 by dotcom

[torrenova]

You should be able to get a 7 or 8 kW unit (twice as powerful as your current one) which will give you nice hot water.

You'll need to run 6mm² cable protected by a 32A breaker for a 7kW or 10mm² cable and a 40A breaker for a 8kW unit.

Costs will vary with the length of cable required but labour should be cheap.

Remember to ground your new heater and if you don't already have one install an ELCB / RCCB / RCD / Saf-T-Cut.

EDIT Check your meter is capable of providing the required power, a 5/15 will go pop

OK, the new place the wife has bought (small Thai house) has electric installed but the fuse box only has about 4 or 5 slots and is very small. I guess a load of crap !

So if I get a 7kw shower which should do the trick, are you saying I need some thick cable 10mm² and some 40A fuse ? Do I presume that this original box will not handle that ? How will I know ?

As for the meter, how on earth do I know what it is ? Just installed on the pole outside the hous as per normal.

How to ground it ? I understand the very basic principle but not the application. Sorry but no idea what the ELCB / RCCB / RCD / Saf-T-Cut mean except I've seem some El? on shower heaters in the past as a sort of circuit breaker but perhaps connected to nothing !

On grounding, how to ground a washing machine ? Samsung with trailing 2m copper (?) wire from rear ?

Thanks

Yeah Blondie. Pencil in a 15/45 power meter. 16 or better 35 mm wires from meter to load center.

I have 100 amp but I think you are ok with 60 plus. - run 100 amp if you thiunk you might add extra stuff later. My stove pulls 4000 watts & I have 6 air cons & a whirlpool dryer & an Aristion 70 liter water heater.

Like crossy says buy 2 breaker boxes - one protected & one not (FOR AIR CONs, food freezers etc).

P.S. was asking torrenova what type he wants.

Shower is just one of those small boxes you see in the bathroom.

Can you please explain for idiots like me what you mean by "Like crossy says buy 2 breaker boxes - one protected & one not (FOR AIR CONs, food freezers etc)." ? Do I presume that we leave the original crappy one in for the lights etc. and buy a new higher rated one for aircon and shower heater. Can I presume that a fridge and washing machine are ok on the original circuits via the wall sockets ? Only other anticipated electrics are TV, stereo, fans ad etc.

What to do with computers and grounding / power usage etc.

Thanks again all.

[dotcom]

I answered your grounding question in your other thread.

I will post a picture of my load center.

I have 2 of the square D breaker boxes - with 8 slots each. - You don't have to use them all.

One is protected by safety cut & one is not.

I will take a wild shot in the dark here & tell you to junk the breaker box you have now & buy 1 or 2 new ones. You'll sleep better at night. Get a 60 amp safety cut.

Get the electric company to install a 15/45 amp meter. Run 16 or 35 mm wire from the pole to your load center.

Fridge & washing machine & microwave & hot water kettle do pull a lot of power but nothing to worry about. CLOTHES DRYER pull a lot of power & need to be on dedicated circuits.

One air con - one breaker.

We can totally answer all your questions here. Hope this helps.

[torrenova]

OK, so junk the current box, buy a better one and get some quality fat wiring to the electricity pole outside. Get the electric company to change the meter for a "better" one.

What about the wiring in the house that is there now. I presume just cheap rubbish such as that for the sockets. IS that ok or should that get pulled out ? (much bigger job).

[dotcom]

In my picture above the right hand bank is protected by that Safety-Cut. I use it for lights, sockets, my high fi, 70 liter hot water storage tank, cook stove (rated at 4000w).

The left hand bank is not protected - used for air cons (6).

[torrenova]

Any reason why it is all not run through something with a safety cut off ?

[think_too_mut]

I bought 2 water heaters, 2 guys in manufacturer's uniforms came to deliver and install them, took them more than 1 hour each.

The shop charged 800B per heater to install.

I would not try to install them myself, there is quite a bit involved.

[jasreeve17]

My current shower heater is old and though that is probably some of the problem, I think the intensely cold water we have here in Buriram at the moment is the main problem. This model has a power usage of 3500w which, if replaced with something much more powerful, should sort the problem of only luke warm water.

Any ideas ?

Also, cost to replace (electrician) and rough costs to put in house where no electric (except light) in bathroom ?

There seems to be lots of complex answers on this thread.

As I see this simple problem:-

The shower unit itself is cheap (4,000 to 6,000 baht for a good one) and National / Panasonic are always a good bet in Thailand. A 4.5kW unit is fine. I paid 4,000 baht for a Panasonic 4.5kW unit and even with very high water pressure (harder to heat because of the larger volume of water) the shower is hot and nice. In my second bathroom I've turned the water pressure down to a 'medium' level and have a nicely warm shower with a 3.5kW Panasonic unit.

I'd suggest that your 'cold shower' problem is due to the old heater unit. Get a new Panasonic 4.5kW unit and you won't be disapointed.

If you buy a shower from the supermarkets / Homepro (very good for me) then fitting is either included or a low price (200 baht?) addition - depending on their current offers.

I'd actually repeat that Panasonic / National are the brand to go for in Thailand. (I made the foolish mistake of letting my missus choose expensive and sexy looking Aristons - changed them to Panasonics within two weeks...)

Taking advice as to high standard fusing and wiring (as suggested above) is always a sensible idea, an area where Thais are not as diligent as they could be. Water + electricity = death (sometimes).

[dotcom]

Good advice.

But remember you need to run a circuit of 20 amps from the load center to that big water heater (Hand shower). Normal socket wiring can't handle more than 15 amps. (3600 watts).

Thats why they charged you 800 baht each - to cover the cost of the wire.

O yeah - you need to ground it too.

Edited December 3, 2008 by dotcom

[dotcom]

I happened to be up at Home Pro today so I stopped by the water heater section.

About the nicest "Multi Point" (Not hand shower) was a National Model Panasonic DH8BMI. Instant hot water heater.

It draws 8,000 watts & costs 7490 baht.

Remember this will not be the solution for everyone because:

1) It draws heaps of power; my storage tanks pull 1/2 that much juice.

2) You have to supply a mixer at every outlet

3) You have to install hot water piping to every outlet point.

Up 2 U.

[Forkinhades]

I happened to be up at Home Pro today so I stopped by the water heater section.

About the nicest "Multi Point" (Not hand shower) was a National Model Panasonic DH8BMI. Instant hot water heater.

It draws 8,000 watts & costs 7490 baht.

Remember this will not be the solution for everyone because:

1) It draws heaps of power; my storage tanks pull 1/2 that much juice.

2) You have to supply a mixer at every outlet

3) You have to install hot water piping to every outlet point.

Up 2 U.

Yes but your storage tank is constantly drawing power, where as the instantb heater only draws power as and when needed!

[Crossy]

Crossy. Wire in Thailand is sold by diameter not cross sectional area? Correct? Ergo 10 mm or 16 mm wire. 8,000 watt is 33 amps.

Nope, a quick survey of the wire and cable available in HomePro Rangsit showed ALL to be sized as cross-sectional area, mm². Data is printed on the reel labels and the cable insulation.

I have a couple of rolls of equipment wire which is labeled as 18AWG (0.8mm²) otherwise all is mm² only.

Power here is a nominal 220V so 8kW will pull 36.4A you will need 10mm² cable with a 40A breaker.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Crossy

[Crossy]

Crossy. Wire in Thailand is sold by diameter not cross sectional area? Correct? Ergo 10 mm or 16 mm wire. 8,000 watt is 33 amps.

Nope, a quick survey of the wire and cable available in HomePro Rangsit showed ALL to be sized as cross-sectional area, mm². Data is printed on the reel labels and the cable insulation.

I have a couple of rolls of equipment wire which is labeled as 18AWG (0.8mm²) otherwise all is mm² only.

Power here is a nominal 220V so 8kW will pull 36.4A you will need 10mm² cable with a 40A breaker.

Missed the edit limit

That said ^^^ we do tend to refer to "2.5mm" wire rather than "2.5mm²" coz we can't be arsed to sort the

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[dotcom]

Yes but your storage tank is constantly drawing power, where as the instantb heater only draws power as and when needed!

Incorrect.

[Samuian]

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