Equality For Thai Wives

[opalhort]

Well, I think other than Opalhort who is a fully paid up member of the saffron tinted glasses and yellow shirt brigade, most people would see this as a justified cause.

Please allow me to take exception to this statement!

I did support the aim of PAD, BUT certainly not the method they used to achieve it.

I do support the Democrats not because I like them but because they appear to be the lesser of the various evils offering to run the country in which I've been living for the past 20+ years.

Sorry for the off-topic post.

Back on topic:

Yes there is a justified cause, but it should be initiated by farang husbands. A petition by a few thousand long time farang husbands (may be counter-signed by their Thai wives), submitted to the appropriate authorities, possibly through a major legal firm, could lead to a review of the rules.

But the gender discrimination issue should not be mentioned because it could have a negative impact on foreign wives married to Thai husbands.

opalhort

[mrtoad]

Well, I think other than Opalhort who is a fully paid up member of the saffron tinted glasses and yellow shirt brigade, most people would see this as a justified cause.

Please allow me to take exception to this statement!

I did support the aim of PAD, BUT certainly not the method they used to achieve it.

I do support the Democrats not because I like them but because they appear to be the lesser of the various evils offering to run the country in which I've been living for the past 20+ years.

Sorry for the off-topic post.

Back on topic:

Yes there is a justified cause, but it should be initiated by farang husbands. A petition by a few thousand long time farang husbands (may be counter-signed by their Thai wives), submitted to the appropriate authorities, possibly through a major legal firm, could lead to a review of the rules.

But the gender discrimination issue should not be mentioned because it could have a negative impact on foreign wives married to Thai husbands.

opalhort

Okay, you are welcome to take exception to my previous statement.

Know back on topic.....

Give me a reason why a non-national is going to have more of an influence on the Thai legal system? Explain why the discrimination issue should not be mentioned, considering you were quite succint in stating that in the constitution there are rules against gender descrimination?These are points of law, and I think that you will find that using gender in this issue probably has a far higher chance of success. WHy did you write to Abahasit regarding the issue of visa renewal, but you don't feel comfortable about Thai nationals questioning their rights? I'm confused, maybe my logic has become skewed.

[opalhort]

Surely, you should be a sign up for this meeting? If you think it will cause more problems for foreigner wives married to Thais, why did you have the conviction to right to Abahsit regarding effectively the same thing?

OK, I guess my English is just not up to par.

Yes, I am concerned and request a more secure life in TH with my family.

Yes, I do agree that we farang husbands should try to do something about it but the courts are not the right place because the laws give a free hand to immigration etc. to enact the rules as they see fit.

And I certainly disagree with using our wives as a front (human shields?) to help and protect us. Yes our wives can support and help us but it is for us to file any petition.

And, as I mentioned earlier, anything we do should in no way have a negative impact on foreign wives of Thai husbands.

opalhort

[beechguy]

This is somehow understandable if you understand the Thai mindset:

The husband is the head of the household and he is supposed to provide for his family.

opalhort

And the Taliban mindset is to beat their wives and deny them any education at all.

Or the Mindset of those that practise Female cirumcision...

Or the Saudi mindset that denies their woman the right to Vote... or Drive a car... or leave their homes... or talk to a male that is not one of their family members...

Or Forced arranged marriages...

Or the father in the USA who killed his 2 daughters for dressing in western clothes and wanting to date boys.

Are we suppossed to sit back and accept these "mindsets" also?

Bad is bad.. Cultures Must change... Time Changes... People change.

The only negative mindset is that Thai Women are NOT Equal to men in deciding how to organize their families... and who would be the "Bread Winner"...

Is a Thai Woman any less capable to take care of her family than a farang woman in the west?

Or are they only capable, after their husbands are forced to leave the country, leaving no one to help around the house and take care of the kids, while the Woman is following her chosen career.. that she spent years educating herself for....

But now.. she must still work and still take care of her family, but without any help from her Stay-at-Home Husband.. who pulled his weight, just as a Stay-at-Home Wife (housewife) pulls her weight ... but now, more of her income must go to a care-giver.. who doesn't have the same motivation to provide adequate loving care that her husband had.

I don't believe it... 2009 is around the corner, and we are still fighting the same battle about the equality of genders... of People....

and not doing it with Thais... but other Westerners....

Some things never change

CS

You had some of my support until I read the upper part of your reply. It's just stupid to compare this situation to those mentioned above. I'm all in favor for equal rights for women, so wouldn't it be just as well to request the Thai government to ask foreign women to comply with the financial requirements same as a foreign man so they can help support their Thai husbands?

Also, I've never read one entry in Thai visa where a man had to pack up and leave his family because of immigration law. If they had to leave, it was most likely economic reasons, not immigration problems. At most, some just had to cross the border or get a new visa. You guys are misrepresenting some of the facts in my opinion.

Edited December 27, 2008 by beechguy

[ubonjoe]

You had some of my support until I read the upper part of your reply. It's just stupid to compare this situation to those mentioned above. I'm all in favor for equal rights for women, so wouldn't it be just as well to request the Thai government to ask foreign women to comply with the financial requirements same as a foreign man so they can help support their Thai husbands?

Also, I've never read one entry in Thai visa where a man had to pack up and leave his family because of immigration law. If they had to leave, it was most likely economic reasons, not immigration problems. At most, some just had to cross the border or get a new visa. You guys are misrepresenting some of the facts in my opinion.

Cosmic was having a bad day yesterday when he wrote those lines. All though he did make some good examples of mindset but also some inappropriate ones.

Even not being able to get an extension and having to revert to border runs or getting a non immigrant visa would be just about as bad if you had been on extensions for a while.

What if you had small children and the wife worked to help support the family and you were the one taking care of the kids. Making border and visa runs would upset things.

Please go through the other topics and read some of the posts.

[oceano]

You could never even get started unless a group of women came fourth about this. Not only our wives but women who are not married to furang would have to care. But they are Thai and will never care because it doesn't affect them directly. Even though the end result is their legal rights of equality, it would have to be a fashionable thing to do or their short attention spans would be the death of it. And to get women who are not married to furangs to give a crap you would have to make some cute little baby clothes and head bands with your logo on it. Then they could look cute for the TV cameras and more would show up. Thai women are only interested in saving face in front of there neighbor, not standing up for their neighbor. When it doesn't affect them they just walk with the rest of the cattle. Even though the end result would be the equality of their rights as women the majority won't care because they cannot wear it or show it to her friends.

Yesterday I showed my wife the new immigration policies in Thai after reading the translated versions provided here. I told her fictional restrictions saying that we could only spend 15 days every 90 days together. Knowing it did not say this at all but thinking I could get some kind of reaction out of her so she would read it. But she didn't correct me at all and only said, "Well if this is the law." She obviously didn't even read it. I would bet that your wives have the same nonchalant reactions. After all they already have the car all of their friends wanted and don't care if their insurance cost more than a man's.

One time I asked my wife about how women are treated in prison. I told her that I had heard some rumor that they were kept in common areas and not protected from rape by the male inmates. She said," that's a lie! Only low class women are treated like that." "If you come from a good family you are treated better", she continued. I fear that the majority of Thai women are filled with similar delusions that things like this could never affect them. They are oblivious to any rights they might be entitled to or cheated out of under Thai law. When people are treated unjustly that they deserve it in some way is the impression I get from them. My wife never batted an eye when I asked her about a woman that might be falsely incarcerated. Don't you realize that some people get framed you idiot! But this could never happen to her because she doesn't break the law. Her resolve is that it did not affect her so she doesn't care.

Thai women would never help our cause. We furang married to Thai women are nothing more than something fashionable. We are the rich prince charming with a 9 inch member. They like us too old to run around on them or to catch them running around on us. They don't love us but only what they want us to be. When we begin to become too inconvenient to them through immigrant restrictions they will move on to Japanese or Chinese men. And we will move to another country chasing the women that our own societies judge out of our caste or too attractive for men of our stature.

The idea that Thai women would stand up for themselves and their husbands is a beautiful thought but it will never happen. I would give you money to follow this but only if you posted a picture of your wife's face when you tell her what you are up to.

I totally agree whit you.

You said the reality in Thailand for us and the lady that stay whit us( 99%).

So here the governament and the police is so powerfull, nobody care their own intrest if dont hurt them directly or dont give to them money for move.

Dont ask thai people to help you they dont care, mai pen rai.

ciao

[mrtoad]

Surely, you should be a sign up for this meeting? If you think it will cause more problems for foreigner wives married to Thais, why did you have the conviction to right to Abahsit regarding effectively the same thing?

OK, I guess my English is just not up to par.

Yes, I am concerned and request a more secure life in TH with my family.

Yes, I do agree that we farang husbands should try to do something about it but the courts are not the right place because the laws give a free hand to immigration etc. to enact the rules as they see fit.

And I certainly disagree with using our wives as a front (human shields?) to help and protect us. Yes our wives can support and help us but it is for us to file any petition.

And, as I mentioned earlier, anything we do should in no way have a negative impact on foreign wives of Thai husbands.

opalhort

You're English is fine, and much better than my German.

Look, I think that we agree on the majority of things, however I don't think that you can say that there is a suggestion that we use our wives as 'human shields' or to help them protect us. In fact, it is them that also need some protection from the uncertainty of the situation. They are clearly in a better position to file a petition as Thai nationals - you on the other hand are only a guest, and they could just as easily boot you out, they can't do that with one of their own citizens. I do not, for one moment imagine that such a petition would have any impact upon foreign wives of Thai husbands, to use that is a cop out IMO, and one would hope, as you do that the new government might be a little more forward thinking and accomodating towards mixed race families.

[Mario2008]

Change come fom people willing to row against the stream. The liberties in the West didn't come in one day, nor will they come in one day in Thailand.

[Livinginexile]

Thank you to the Members that voted to be "Added to the Contact List"... or saying that their Wives are willing to get Involved...

BUT...

If you don't add your Post HERE in this thread, We have NO WAY of knowing who you are, or how to contact you.

PLEASE... PLEASE... PLEASE post here, so we have a record of your interest.

Thank You,

CS

This may be a silly reply but...

Could we fight this through a world court of some sort?

But Thailand on an international "shame list"? That would move them to action.

[opalhort]

The way I see it is that the authorities have a problem with filtering out the visa extension requests based on "marriages of convenience (for the farang husband's benefit)" from long term solid family relation ships. Hence - the requirement of home photos etc....

So, how much weight would a petition of Thai wives of, as I call it, 'marriages of convenience', carry?

Please do not take any offence, I do not address any person.

I hope the new administration will come up with a solution and make the rules clear in this regard.

opalhort

[ubonjoe]

Not a silly post just another idea.

The cost would be much higher to take it out of the country and take much longer.

This may not end up being a court action in end. We just need to have some idea of how many people will support it and get an organization set up for our wives. And then decide which way to go with this.

[Mario2008]

Bringing the case for an international forum or court is not possible. Some treaties, such as the treaty on civil and political rights provide for a tribunal where complaints can be lodged. There are however 2 obstacles:

1. a country has to opt for the possibility that a tribunal will investigate complaints against that country

2. the case has to go first before the courts of the country in question, only when the local courts fails can a complaint be made.

Thailand has not opted for the possibility that complaints can be lodged with the UN human rights commission. As said the case has to go before the Thai courts first any way.

However various treaties at issue here do require the Thai government to submit reports on their human rights situation and the Thai government is questioned about these reports. Also NGO's file comments on these country reports.

[sassienie]

Fighting for the equality for Thai Wives is really another way of trying to obtain equality for Farang husbands, those of low wealth who do not have the appropriate funds to apply for non immigrant (O) visas.

If the Thai government amended the laws and permitted those Farangs married with Thai spouses to be able to work freely in Thailand, become Thai citizens and own real estate, will open up the floodgates for all kinds of dross, undesirables, company speculators and corruption.

There would be marriages of convenience on a grand scale as a way of getting a foothold into Thailand, undesirables would be able to live here unchallenged as to what is their activities in Thailand and the West’s dross and poor would be flocking in, in droves.

At present, the Thais tolerate us Farangs here and we are left in peace. Relaxing the immigration laws and admitting into the country forever any Farang who is married to a Thai that will increase the ex-pat population here substantially, would have the effect of creating a clash of cultures between the Thais and ex-pats and cause hostilities between the 2 groups.

I am married to a Thai and have no problems extending my visa each year because I have the imposed funds to apply. The equality situation for Thai wives does not affect us, because of my financial position, meaning I can still live in Thailand permanently without any restrictions on my wife.

I would prefer to see a tightening up of Immigration laws, which restricts real estate ownership, employment, dross, plus the numbers of Westerners living in Thailand.

Edited December 27, 2008 by sassienie

[abdulrahman]

The way I see it is that the authorities have a problem with filtering out the visa extension requests based on "marriages of convenience (for the farang husband's benefit)" from long term solid family relation ships. Hence - the requirement of home photos etc....

So, how much weight would a petition of Thai wives of, as I call it, 'marriages of convenience', carry?

Opalhort,hough I can understand your doubts about the best way to modify the Thai immigration policy regarding mixed nationality families for the best of the family,husband and wife both,notwithstanding their respective nationality,do you really think we will have a flood of Thai women,married with Burmese or Cambodian men for(as you put it)convenience,as sponsors?

Do you really think that a Farang(myself for example)comes to Thailand,marry a national,build a house,start a business,support the extended wife's family,knowing that he'll NEVER have any advantage,and all this for my convenience?

Thailand want the Taksins from elsewhere,with their ill gotten money,or the the 30 days tourists to fill Phuket hotels,sex tourists are tolerated,but the families are discriminated.Much more as in the EU/US.Time to change?My answer is YES.

[Lite Beer]

I have merged the 3 Topics Together as it was getting a bit disjointed.

If the OP wants the title changed let me or Ubonjoe know.

[endure]

Can we keep the flames out of this thread please. Any more flames posted will be deleted without notice so you're just wasting your time posting them. Thanks.

[oceano]

Note that it aren't only the Thai wives, but also the Thai children with a foreign father who are discriminated against by the immigration rules. Children have their own rights, which are also trempled upon.

Very good point... ammunition in favor of keeping families together.

But, unfortunately, this would not be relevent regarding a case for a Thai Female's ability to use her income to be the support of the family.

Remember that all this stems from the explicit targeting of Thai Wives and the 40k Baht Monthly income no longer based on "Combined" income.

But good idea anyway,

CS

Why not?

pls try to understand me. Is more important for everybody (court, judge,country,UN ecc) one child then 100 lady that have farang man that give to them lots of money (like one lady that live in isaan whit 5000 bath per month)every month.( don’t forget, also, that they see Thai lady stay whit farang man like all lady bar and for them is like all them are bad lady without rights).

So if I have a child whit Thai woman, that also for small money but I give food, I send to Scholl and I give everything’s him need and, for all this heavy request from the government for stay here, I will go away, she is not able to support one child whit 5000 bath per month so this child must to go find food in temple from the monk( I see many time this in TAK) or die whiteout food or the mother( and you have hundreds of example here in pattaya of lady that must be prostitute for support the child) must to be a prostitute.

So she not able keeping families together and give a basic human right to her child and this can be SHOW very easy whit one video camera and send to the UN the video of the witness about that( lady in beach rod in pattaya, lady in bar everywhere in Thailand ) and whit the video of the child go find food in the temple because they don’t have money for eat...more, for the human right this way of the government FORCE many lady on the way of the prostitution that is another point very sensitive for the human right organization..

Then put all together whit also your right in this for the family. Pls try to understand me because I read some case about that and all point to the protection of the child first then follows the other things that make more credible all. Ciao

Edited December 27, 2008 by oceano

[mrtoad]

Fighting for the equality for Thai Wives is really another way of trying to obtain equality for Farang husbands, those of low wealth who do not have the appropriate funds to apply for non immigrant (O) visas.

If the Thai government amended the laws and permitted those Farangs married with Thai spouses to be able to work freely in Thailand, become Thai citizens and own real estate, will open up the floodgates for all kinds of dross, undesirables, company speculators and corruption.

There would be marriages of convenience on a grand scale as a way of getting a foothold into Thailand, undesirables would be able to live here unchallenged as to what is their activities in Thailand and the West’s dross and poor would be flocking in, in droves.

At present, the Thais tolerate us Farangs here and we are left in peace. Relaxing the immigration laws and admitting into the country forever any Farang who is married to a Thai that will increase the ex-pat population here substantially, would have the effect of creating a clash of cultures between the Thais and ex-pats and cause hostilities between the 2 groups.

I am married to a Thai and have no problems extending my visa each year because I have the imposed funds to apply. The equality situation for Thai wives does not affect us, because of my financial position, meaning I can still live in Thailand permanently without any restrictions on my wife.

I would prefer to see a tightening up of Immigration laws, which restricts real estate ownership, employment, dross, plus the numbers of Westerners living in Thailand.

Well. I will try again to post.

Sassanie, you seem to equate wealth with suitability to reside in a country. Robert Mugabe, Thaksin and many other people of dubious nature are wealthy, but they are also exactly the type of people who should not be allowed to reside in foreign countries. Well done to the UK for booting him out.

I don't think that the OP is actually even suggesting that this is being done to allow those that don't meet the financial requirements to reside, it is more about equality and fairness. It's good that you are in a position to feel comfortable, but even you should surely realise that in Thailand rules can be changed very quickly, and your position could change.

It makes no difference to me at present as I am on a WP, and I could meet the current financial requirements, however I still think the OP is making a good point. The law is an ass, and .................

[CosmicSurfer]

I guess a Call for a meeting is premature... still lots of converting and organizing to do...

So "NO Meeting" today.

But I'm not dropping the issue just yet.

Have to take the Wife to the Dentist, and then shopping... But ...

In the Words of that 'Immorta'l Movie Hero of few Words....

"I'll be Back!"

CS

Edited December 28, 2008 by CosmicSurfer

[Lite Beer]

Post containing insulting and derogatory remarks about Western Husbands and Thai Women and Wives Deleted.

[HorseDoctor]

If equality is mandated- then Thai woman might begin to think they are equal-. How many foreign men really want that ? Isn't that what they come to Thailand to escape?

Seems to me most men on this forum can't even use the word "woman" regarding females , it's always " Girls "

And Thai immigration and the FBA is all about making it difficult to reside here.

Thai woman are the commodity, get them married off to foreigners.

they aren't abuot to make it easy

[Mario2008]

Just a few thoughts on the Convention on the Rights of the Child

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu2/6/crc/treaties/crc.htm

Article 5

States Parties shall respect the responsibilities, rights and duties of parents or, where applicable, the members of the extended family or community as provided for by local custom, legal guardians or other persons legally responsible for the child, to provide, in a manner consistent with the evolving capacities of the child, appropriate direction and

guidance in the exercise by the child of the rights recognized in the present Convention.

Article 10

1. In accordance with the obligation of States Parties under article 9, paragraph 1, applications by a child or his or her parents to enter or leave a State Party for the purpose of family reunification shall be dealt with by States Parties in a positive, humane and expeditious manner. States Parties shall further ensure that the submission of such a request shall entail no adverse consequences for the applicants and for the members of their family.

2. A child whose parents reside in different States shall have the right to maintain on a regular basis, save in exceptional circumstances personal relations and direct contacts with both parents. Towards that end and in accordance with the obligation of States Parties under article 9, paragraph 1, States Parties shall respect the right of the child and his or her parents to leave any country, including their own, and to enter their own country. The right to leave any country shall be subject only to such restrictions as are prescribed by law and which are necessary to protect the national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Convention.

Article 18

1. States Parties shall use their best efforts to ensure recognition of the principle that both parents have common responsibilities for the upbringing and development of the child. Parents or, as the case may be, legal guardians, have the primary responsibility for the upbringing and development of the child. The best interests of the child will be their

basic concern.

2. For the purpose of guaranteeing and promoting the rights set forth in the present Convention, States Parties shall render appropriate assistance to parents and legal guardians in the performance of their child-rearing responsibilities and shall ensure the development of institutions, facilities and services for the care of children.

(...)

I think you can say that the Convenant on the Right of the Child gives children the right to be brought up by the family and in the case of a foreign parent a state has to take in to major consideration the right and importance of family live of the child.

[eggomaniac]

Fighting for the equality for Thai Wives is really another way of trying to obtain equality for Farang husbands, those of low wealth who do not have the appropriate funds to apply for non immigrant (O) visas.

If the Thai government amended the laws and permitted those Farangs married with Thai spouses to be able to work freely in Thailand, become Thai citizens and own real estate, will open up the floodgates for all kinds of dross, undesirables, company speculators and corruption.

There would be marriages of convenience on a grand scale as a way of getting a foothold into Thailand, undesirables would be able to live here unchallenged as to what is their activities in Thailand and the West's dross and poor would be flocking in, in droves.

At present, the Thais tolerate us Farangs here and we are left in peace. Relaxing the immigration laws and admitting into the country forever any Farang who is married to a Thai that will increase the ex-pat population here substantially, would have the effect of creating a clash of cultures between the Thais and ex-pats and cause hostilities between the 2 groups.

I am married to a Thai and have no problems extending my visa each year because I have the imposed funds to apply. The equality situation for Thai wives does not affect us, because of my financial position, meaning I can still live in Thailand permanently without any restrictions on my wife.

I would prefer to see a tightening up of Immigration laws, which restricts real estate ownership, employment, dross, plus the numbers of Westerners living in Thailand.

Somewhere in the 3 merged threads on this Topic I have stated similar sentiments. I agree with you 100%

Also, If you look carefully at the legislation it probably would not be ruled as discriminatory. The main Heading speaks of spouses. The sub heading mentions husbands of Thais. I might be argued the Law applies equally and that sub heading is just an example. When I worked for the Attorney General, Corrections, some of our Regulations were interpreted this way.

If it actually is discriminatory, still, no Court in the World could over turn it. They might have to rewrite it so it says spouses of any sex. Just wonering are gay marriages recognised in the Kingdom? You would go to a lot of effort and put your Thai wives through a battle, I'm sure they do not like, to save some farang women from getting in easily and ending up broke in Thailand. < Do you get it? They 'might' have to balance it, but not the way you are dreaming. Was the OP's wife who told him 'to let sleeping dogs lie?'

I have learned it is a good idea to listen to my Thai wife, especially about Thai issues.

The only rerason I am writing this is because I am helpful by nature. Unless you enjoy kicking dead horses, find something else to spend your energy on, like developing a trading business where you don't have to worry about lower standards of Entry.

The first might seem 'difficult', but the second one is 'impossible'.

With the way the economy is tanking, world wide, you are probably going to see tighter restrictions. With all the out of work Thais, who needs foreign workers?

You might even get yourself branded as a political organiser and they will get you on doing 'illegal volunteer' work. You should be asking if your Visa allows the organising of a political group!?

Don't say you were not warned. let sleeping dogs lie is mild. Don't poke your finger in a hornet's nest is more like it!

Good luck with it bud! not

Edited December 28, 2008 by eggomaniac

[oceano]

Just a few thoughts on the Convention on the Rights of the Child

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu2/6/crc/treaties/crc.htm

Article 5

States Parties shall respect the responsibilities, rights and duties of parents or, where applicable, the members of the extended family or community as provided for by local custom, legal guardians or other persons legally responsible for the child, to provide, in a manner consistent with the evolving capacities of the child, appropriate direction and

guidance in the exercise by the child of the rights recognized in the present Convention.

Article 10

1. In accordance with the obligation of States Parties under article 9, paragraph 1, applications by a child or his or her parents to enter or leave a State Party for the purpose of family reunification shall be dealt with by States Parties in a positive, humane and expeditious manner. States Parties shall further ensure that the submission of such a request shall entail no adverse consequences for the applicants and for the members of their family.

2. A child whose parents reside in different States shall have the right to maintain on a regular basis, save in exceptional circumstances personal relations and direct contacts with both parents. Towards that end and in accordance with the obligation of States Parties under article 9, paragraph 1, States Parties shall respect the right of the child and his or her parents to leave any country, including their own, and to enter their own country. The right to leave any country shall be subject only to such restrictions as are prescribed by law and which are necessary to protect the national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Convention.

Article 18

1. States Parties shall use their best efforts to ensure recognition of the principle that both parents have common responsibilities for the upbringing and development of the child. Parents or, as the case may be, legal guardians, have the primary responsibility for the upbringing and development of the child. The best interests of the child will be their

basic concern.

2. For the purpose of guaranteeing and promoting the rights set forth in the present Convention, States Parties shall render appropriate assistance to parents and legal guardians in the performance of their child-rearing responsibilities and shall ensure the development of institutions, facilities and services for the care of children.

(...)

I think you can say that the Convenant on the Right of the Child gives children the right to be brought up by the family and in the case of a foreign parent a state has to take in to major consideration the right and importance of family live of the child.

Mario, were are the only 2 that we understand that is more inportant and more easy the way for protect the child.

I want say this is not political, we only ask a better and simple life when we have a family and children we dont care Thai politics, we want change something that is wrong against us that WE support THAI CHILDREN ( our children or in many case children that, Thai man live whit the mother when they born, for go whit a new lady and for thai law they dont have obligation for take care them.)or for a thai lady that live whit us.

So please CS try to put all togheter, think about a family in all point of view.

Again remember that 1 child is more important for all organization and governament( and for us i hope) than 100 lady.

All the thai law point at send away all of us also if : we support our children, we support thai children, we support thai lady.

hope you understand.

Edited December 28, 2008 by oceano

[Mario2008]

Yes, it should be a family thing, not a Thai wifes only. The Thai wife, Thai child and foreign husband each have their own rights and interest which are at stake.

Actualy, the Thai law is in our favour. At least regarding the immigration rules, is is not the Thai law that is at issue here. It are rather the ministerial regulations (not sure) and the Royal Thai police orders that are inconsistent with Thai and international law. That makes a case much more easier to win.

[oceano]

more, we are not guest in this country.

At the moment i give 1 bath for support a thai child, i give 1 bath for support thai lady, i give 1 bath for open one company, at that moment im not a guest im a person that support thai people whit my money, i give work, i give an opportunity at thai people dont be a prostitute, at the child dont go find food on the road and in the temple, at the small shop and business to stay alive and dont close.

Many shops, small and medium business work for us and they dont need send the workers back to make a rice in issan for the global crisis.

So as supporter of this country why we cannot have an organization that care our intrest????

More, whit our forums, whit our words we help people that have problem meanwhile they stay in thailand, we help the tourism to grow because, sometimes, we said the true about the real situation in thailand that is different ( more good many times) like the newspaper write about.

So try understand my poor english, try to understand that if we organize not like politician BUT like a group of people that support this country we can go talk and try to make some better condition for us.

Tank you.

[ubonjoe]

more, we are not guest in this country.

At the moment i give 1 bath for support a thai child, i give 1 bath for support thai lady, i give 1 bath for open one company, at that moment im not a guest im a person that support thai people whit my money, i give work, i give an opportunity at thai people dont be a prostitute, at the child dont go find food on the road and in the temple, at the small shop and business to stay alive and dont close.

Many shops, small and medium business work for us and they dont need send the workers back to make a rice in issan for the global crisis.

So as supporter of this country why we cannot have an organization that care our intrest????

More, whit our forums, whit our words we help people that have problem meanwhile they stay in thailand, we help the tourism to grow because, sometimes, we said the true about the real situation in thailand that is different ( more good many times) like the newspaper write about.

So try understand my poor english, try to understand that if we organize not like politician BUT like a group of people that support this country we can go talk and try to make some better condition for us.

Tank you.

I agree with you we are no longer guests here. We are people that have invested our future here because we love this country and it's people. We have families to support whether married or not.

We are just trying take out some of the obstructions that make it difficult to feel secure in our future here.

Don't worry CS, myself and others will not give up. This is just the begining.

You can also be sure this topic will not fall off the first page as long as I am keeping an eye on it.

[oceano]

Fighting for the equality for Thai Wives is really another way of trying to obtain equality for Farang husbands, those of low wealth who do not have the appropriate funds to apply for non immigrant (O) visas.

If the Thai government amended the laws and permitted those Farangs married with Thai spouses to be able to work freely in Thailand, become Thai citizens and own real estate, will open up the floodgates for all kinds of dross, undesirables, company speculators and corruption.

There would be marriages of convenience on a grand scale as a way of getting a foothold into Thailand, undesirables would be able to live here unchallenged as to what is their activities in Thailand and the West’s dross and poor would be flocking in, in droves.

At present, the Thais tolerate us Farangs here and we are left in peace. Relaxing the immigration laws and admitting into the country forever any Farang who is married to a Thai that will increase the ex-pat population here substantially, would have the effect of creating a clash of cultures between the Thais and ex-pats and cause hostilities between the 2 groups.

I am married to a Thai and have no problems extending my visa each year because I have the imposed funds to apply. The equality situation for Thai wives does not affect us, because of my financial position, meaning I can still live in Thailand permanently without any restrictions on my wife.

I would prefer to see a tightening up of Immigration laws, which restricts real estate ownership, employment, dross, plus the numbers of Westerners living in Thailand.

i agree whit you at 90%, we have in italy 2-3000 people come from the sea from africa, we have around 700.000 person from other country whitout visa, work in black, 100% of them dont have money,document, visa.

For the immigration law in thailand they face JAIL, DEPORTATION.

So what we do?

We give them food, a place for stay, we try to find job, we give free madical assistance.

Then 100% dont have money, how many western farag do you know that come the 1st time in thailand whitout money?

0%.

PLS is 2009 remember?

Why you can write here?

Internet, a global net that connect all togheter.

PLS stop talk like taht.

BAD GUY can be stopped in many ways but not why financial and visa restriction, we know vey well.

BAD GUY have more money than me and you and they can find a ways for have all kind of visa they want.

And for the cheap charly like me here is only a new life and also whit my 20 bath but i dont ask nothings from the thai governament, so why try in any mode send to me away?

I dont have any problem, my criminal record is empty, i never hurt a thai people( but they send to me in hospital for try to stolen my pocket!!) i support my thai family at the best i can and belivme is 1000 times better like the ex boyfriend of my thai lady do before,

At the end , i dont know whic work you do or how much money do you have BUT what if your work don go good and next yrs you dont have 400.000 or 800.000 bath to put in one thai account?

remember all can have problem whit the money ALL. Also you.

Stop think about" i have money is not my problem" because can happen and happen more often you think.

ciao

Edited December 28, 2008 by oceano

[opalhort]

Yes, the rules are getting tougher as time goes by, but shouldn't we ask: WHY?

When Immigration allowed families to declare a combined income it was very welcome news for many mixed families. Now, that this option is no longer available I guess that many families will have problems.

Immigration has been trying to make life easier for legitimate families with reasonable income but......as many posts on TV have shown that this combined income option has been abused (Thai wives have been used as a front to declare non-existant income). Immigration got wise to it and cancelled this option which may well hurt a number of families with legitimate sufficient income.

I have no solution to this problem, but I don't think that filing law suits is one of them.

The way I see it the new rules 777/2551 give more freedom to the immigration officers to judge the applicant, which I think is a good point, but since this being Thailand it could also open doors to ...special requests.

As for the frequently mentioned statement that farangs living in Thailand contribute to the Thai economy: Think again!

Yes, a foreigner receiving pension or salary from abroad does contribute in a (very small !) way, but it is my guess that most foreigners living in Thailand derive their income from within Thailand (legal or otherwise).

opalhort

[oceano]

Yes, the rules are getting tougher as time goes by, but shouldn't we ask: WHY?

When Immigration allowed families to declare a combined income it was very welcome news for many mixed families. Now, that this option is no longer available I guess that many families will have problems.

Immigration has been trying to make life easier for legitimate families with reasonable income but......as many posts on TV have shown that this combined income option has been abused (Thai wives have been used as a front to declare non-existant income). Immigration got wise to it and cancelled this option which may well hurt a number of families with legitimate sufficient income.

I have no solution to this problem, but I don't think that filing law suits is one of them.

The way I see it the new rules 777/2551 give more freedom to the immigration officers to judge the applicant, which I think is a good point, but since this being Thailand it could also open doors to ...special requests.

As for the frequently mentioned statement that farangs living in Thailand contribute to the Thai economy: Think again!

Yes, a foreigner receiving pension or salary from abroad does contribute in a (very small !) way, but it is my guess that most foreigners living in Thailand derive their income from within Thailand (legal or otherwise).

opalhort

You are right i talking about legal way and legal people......but also if they have income from thailand at first they paid that business so also in this case they spend money in thailand, they give work to other ecc. ecc.

Ok here they talk about more serious subject but also in small things like an TV in vientianne:

we spend 9.000-13.000 bath for make the visa but only 1.000-2.000 is the gain of the governament is not stupid?

Governament can ask 5.000 bath in immigration office in thailand, for example, so we save 4.000-9.000 bath and THEY gain 3.000-4.000 more.

They follow whit the same mind all kind of visa...look today the non-imm b in penang now must be sposored from one company whit 8.000.000 Bath of capital.

Also in dubai, were the dubai citizen they gain milions of dollars every day, is not so hard make a company and make a visa.

I dont know why some people think that only rich farang must stay in thailand...but is only their dreams,

come back to reality very rich people dont come stay like expat in thailand, only normal people like us and in most of the case good people.

ciao

Edited December 28, 2008 by oceano