Airlines Ripping Off Brits?

[BeauGeste]

I am looking to book a return flight from London to Bangkok in Jan-Feb next year.

Whilst looking on search engines I have noticed that with BA and Quantas it is cheaper to book a flight to Bangkok from a European Hub via Heathrow than direct from Heathrow. I havn't checked any other airlines yet.

I have looked at Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt etc and all of them are cheaper than Heathrow direct. I used Kayak for this.

With BA

AMS-LHR-BKK £877 return

LHR-BKK £955 return

It seems better to book a flight from a Hub in Europe and not use the leg to LHR.

Can anyone give a logical reason for this? To me it seems airlines are ripping off people flying direct from the UK?

[bazmlb]

Mostly its because the taxes for LHR are higher than nearly all other airports in Europe, its not the Airlines ripping people off its the Governments charging a lot in taxes.

[torrenova]

Problems with this are that the airline will class you as a no show if you do not get on at Schipol. You can get around this by confirming things with them. Ignore any crap they say about cancelling your ticket but get it recorded in an email.

On the return, you would have to arrange for your baggage not to be checked through to Schipol.

Personally though, I think you can beat £877 for a return anyway though perhaps not direct.

[Thaivisa Travel]

We must advise you against this as it what is known as cross border selling and totally illegal. You will be denied boarding in London if you have not flown the Amsterdam London sector! There is a semi logical reason which at the moment is caused by currency fluctuations and the demise of our quid against the Euro and all major currencies. Airlines also have what they call "market fares" where for example if KLM has a cheap fare ex Amsterdam then BA will try and match it back over Heathrow. Crazy we agree. If you would like to email us your dates [email protected] then i will scout our UK consolidators and see what we can do for you.

Kind regards, Guy and team

[Tafia]

I am looking to book a return flight from London to Bangkok in Jan-Feb next year.

Whilst looking on search engines I have noticed that with BA and Quantas it is cheaper to book a flight to Bangkok from a European Hub via Heathrow than direct from Heathrow. I havn't checked any other airlines yet.

I have looked at Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt etc and all of them are cheaper than Heathrow direct. I used Kayak for this.

With BA

AMS-LHR-BKK £877 return

LHR-BKK £955 return

It seems better to book a flight from a Hub in Europe and not use the leg to LHR.

Can anyone give a logical reason for this? To me it seems airlines are ripping off people flying direct from the UK?

Try EVA (direct flight) or Eithiad or Qatar (both non direct) all excellant service via flight shop sites....you shouldnt be paying more than around £550

Edited December 9, 2008 by Tafia

[bkkjames]

I am looking to book a return flight from London to Bangkok in Jan-Feb next year.

Whilst looking on search engines I have noticed that with BA and Quantas it is cheaper to book a flight to Bangkok from a European Hub via Heathrow than direct from Heathrow. I havn't checked any other airlines yet.

I have looked at Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt etc and all of them are cheaper than Heathrow direct. I used Kayak for this.

With BA

AMS-LHR-BKK £877 return

LHR-BKK £955 return

It seems better to book a flight from a Hub in Europe and not use the leg to LHR.

Can anyone give a logical reason for this? To me it seems airlines are ripping off people flying direct from the UK?

I get a kick out of people who take a shot a companies that charge more than others. It's called supply and demand. BA or Qantas or any other airline flying out of Heathrow can charge whatever they want. If you want to do a milk-run to Ams or Frankfurt to here to save a few pounds, go ahead.

Nobody is forcing you to pay a fee you are not comfortable with. Fly Ryanair if you want lo-cost. Oops, they don't fly to BKK.

Try the middle-east airlines if you have more time than money. Many good ones including Emirates, Ethihad, Qatar fly to LHR.

[johnsurin]

I am looking to book a return flight from London to Bangkok in Jan-Feb next year.

Whilst looking on search engines I have noticed that with BA and Quantas it is cheaper to book a flight to Bangkok from a European Hub via Heathrow than direct from Heathrow. I havn't checked any other airlines yet.

I have looked at Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt etc and all of them are cheaper than Heathrow direct. I used Kayak for this.

With BA

AMS-LHR-BKK £877 return

LHR-BKK £955 return

It seems better to book a flight from a Hub in Europe and not use the leg to LHR.

Can anyone give a logical reason for this? To me it seems airlines are ripping off people flying direct from the UK?

Isn't it obvious? Rip off Britain. I always fly Newcastle to Amsterdam as it is cheaper than flying from Heathrow.

John....

Edited December 9, 2008 by johnsurin

[BeauGeste]

Mostly its because the taxes for LHR are higher than nearly all other airports in Europe, its not the Airlines ripping people off its the Governments charging a lot in taxes.

Thanks for the explanation, no wonder the Govt want extra runways. Add this to the carbon taxes and it's never ending.

[Lite Beer]

Not much help to the op but Air Asia are starting flights from Stansted to KL in March. Some really cheap promotions if you book early.

[GuestHouse]

We must advise you against this as it what is known as cross border selling and totally illegal. You will be denied boarding in London if you have not flown the Amsterdam London sector! There is a semi logical reason which at the moment is caused by currency fluctuations and the demise of our quid against the Euro and all major currencies. Airlines also have what they call "market fares" where for example if KLM has a cheap fare ex Amsterdam then BA will try and match it back over Heathrow. Crazy we agree. If you would like to email us your dates [email protected] then i will scout our UK consolidators and see what we can do for you.

Kind regards, Guy and team

Funny that because I have been buying back to back tickets (purchased across boarders) for years - I've written to British Airways, Italia and Air France and they have all responded that while they do not advise buying tickets across boarders (words to the effect you may loose your money of the agents are crooks) they do allow this practice and do honor the tickets.

The reason I wrote was because at the time I was buying tickets for my children who were to travel unaccompanied and I wanted to be sure that the tickets I purchased where valid.

So ....... it seems not at all illegal.

I think you'll find there are also a raft of laws covering fair trade and open markets that allow this practice.

[Mosha]

Google West East travel. They have Eva at 542 quid and that is in late January.

[Robski]

^ Exactly. If the OP took the time to look at altenative airlines and alternative vendors he might save himself some stress and save TV from another worthless thread.

[Kharzi]

I took advantage of a promotion with Etihad departing LHR in Feb 09 and secured 2 returns at £440 each including all taxes. This ended 30/11/08 as indeed did other Middle Eastern carrier promotions, the cheapest of which was I believe Qatar at £410.

The plummeting price of oil and the consequences of the current recession will inevitably lead to more promos once Xmas is out of the way.

Sit tight and keep your powder dry!

[torrenova]

We must advise you against this as it what is known as cross border selling and totally illegal. You will be denied boarding in London if you have not flown the Amsterdam London sector! There is a semi logical reason which at the moment is caused by currency fluctuations and the demise of our quid against the Euro and all major currencies. Airlines also have what they call "market fares" where for example if KLM has a cheap fare ex Amsterdam then BA will try and match it back over Heathrow. Crazy we agree. If you would like to email us your dates [email protected] then i will scout our UK consolidators and see what we can do for you.

Kind regards, Guy and team

Sorry but you are not telling the whole truth. Also, it cannot be illegal to not to get on an aeroplane nor to buy a ticket from one place to another. Please quote the relevant statute which makes this illegal in any EU country.

I regularly flew on such tickets and missed many start connections. I also jumped ship before final destinations. I flew only return legs after missing or not taking the outward leg.

I will agree that it is not to be encouraged and for the saving in this case you would be crazy to do it but please do not put fear into people with misleading statements and stating that they would be breaking the law.

I adhere to the KISS principle but not all here are stupid enough as to not be able to deal with issues such as this.

[asanee]

Torrenova is right and in this respect Thaivisa travel needs to update his/her knowledge: IN the EU this practice is now forbidden-and even skipping the inital Ams-LHR leg is allowed without loosing the onward bookings (but even then some airlines may still protest against this by putting up any imaginable hurdle they can think of)-but then you do get hit by the UK-airport taxes- I think thats 20 GBP for an eco. departure out of the EU.

as a new fenomenon some airlines (LH being a case) have set up further web-spiders to detct from there youre booking-to quote different prtices then. This practice is now also under consideration by the Eu-and likely to be foirbidden too.

Perhaps this EU is not just all that bad all the times. More info and inside news on various subbranches of flyertalk.com

[junkofdavid2]

I get a kick out of people who take a shot a companies that charge more than others. It's called supply and demand. BA or Qantas or any other airline flying out of Heathrow can charge whatever they want. If you want to do a milk-run to Ams or Frankfurt to here to save a few pounds, go ahead.

Nobody is forcing you to pay a fee you are not comfortable with.

I get a kick out of pseudo free market freaks who think they're free market proponents who toss around concepts like "supply and demand" (wow! they're even smart enough to know those 2 words), but who don't understand themselves that one of the main principles of the free market is the freedom and even encouragement to complain and "take a shot" at companies as long as it's within truth; and to search for better options through many channels, including a now new channel called a "blog".

I'm a firm believer of a super free market myself, and I vehemently disagree with any government's attempt to use laws and regulations to stifle that so called "supply and demand" (wow! I know it too!).

As for calling it a "ripoff", well, if we define a "ripoff" as an act of cheating which a government should ban... then yes, the OP's post is an attack on the concept of supply and demand.

But if the OP merely used the word "ripoff" in an informal sense meaning "a significantly disadvantageous deal for a consumer" and made no reference to a government banning or regulating it, then there's no inconsistency at all against the so called "free market" and/or "supply and demand".

In fact, one of the main principles of "free market" is that all buyers have complete knowledge about best prices and deals of all sellers in order to make the supply and demand process efficient... and that seems to be consistent with what the OP is trying to achieve by posting his question on this blog.

[londonthai]

With BA

AMS-LHR-BKK £877 return

LHR-BKK £955 return

the price will drop in january sale

[sezze]

It is actually a common business in the flight industry . The reason is competition . If a company has zero to none big competitors at 1 place they jack up the price . If however the competition is huge prices go down . Now it is a littlebit more complicated then that . Airplanes have also stops etc , and to get the planes full in 1 route they lower the prices for the complete route . So , in your case , They want passengers go with BA or Qantas to use their long haul flights and also the short run's to England . since in amsterdam in your case EVA and China airlines cover probably 80% of the traffic to Asia and 15% is covered by KLM there is only a 5% margin where BA or Qantas can make their marketshare . They want to have passengers from these countries going with them so they cannot make a price higher then the allready direct flights from EVA, China and KLM .

Can you follow what i'm trying to say ... ??? If yes , then you know why it is cheaper flying from Holland then directly from England .

[mrtoad]

Google West East travel. They have Eva at 542 quid and that is in late January.

Yeah, I'd agree with checking out West East travel. When I lived in the UK, I generally used them, and always got good deals.

Can't understand why anyone would want to fly with BA anyway.

[Farma]

We must advise you against this as it what is known as cross border selling and totally illegal. You will be denied boarding in London if you have not flown the Amsterdam London sector! There is a semi logical reason which at the moment is caused by currency fluctuations and the demise of our quid against the Euro and all major currencies. Airlines also have what they call "market fares" where for example if KLM has a cheap fare ex Amsterdam then BA will try and match it back over Heathrow. Crazy we agree. If you would like to email us your dates [email protected] then i will scout our UK consolidators and see what we can do for you.

Kind regards, Guy and team

Oh Gosh Are you telling me the hundred or more “cross border” tickets I’ve purchased and used without problem over the past 20 years were all illegal?

Well smack my bum... I'm off to cancel and demand refunds for the 2 cross border tickets my travel agent just sold me... Not

[snuggzzz]

Prices vary, promotions take place, when the PAD was preventing flights, seats for December 30th with EVA were going for £545 incl. Now back up to £807. Flights for mid-Jan are £685 with West East Travel.

Try netflights or EBookers, they are competitive. But agree with a previous post, wait for January Sales......

[bkkjames]

I get a kick out of people who take a shot a companies that charge more than others. It's called supply and demand. BA or Qantas or any other airline flying out of Heathrow can charge whatever they want. If you want to do a milk-run to Ams or Frankfurt to here to save a few pounds, go ahead.

Nobody is forcing you to pay a fee you are not comfortable with.

I get a kick out of pseudo free market freaks who think they're free market proponents who toss around concepts like "supply and demand" (wow! they're even smart enough to know those 2 words), but who don't understand themselves that one of the main principles of the free market is the freedom and even encouragement to complain and "take a shot" at companies as long as it's within truth; and to search for better options through many channels, including a now new channel called a "blog".

Not smart enough to figure out your point, but I am guessing there is one inside this ramble somewhere

I'm a firm believer of a super free market myself, and I vehemently disagree with any government's attempt to use laws and regulations to stifle that so called "supply and demand" (wow! I know it too!).

"Super free market freak" are you? DO you have an MBA to prove it or is it just a hobby?

As for calling it a "ripoff", well, if we define a "ripoff" as an act of cheating which a government should ban... then yes, the OP's post is an attack on the concept of supply and demand.

But if the OP merely used the word "ripoff" in an informal sense meaning "a significantly disadvantageous deal for a consumer" and made no reference to a government banning or regulating it, then there's no inconsistency at all against the so called "free market" and/or "supply and demand".

As a super free market freak, I would have thought you could have figured out the difference between Airlines "Ripping Off" and Airlines "Charging alot, outrageously high, over the top"

Here is a definition I found for Rip Off on Wiki for your reference..

A ripoff (or rip-off) is a bad deal. Usually it refers to an incident in which a person pays too much for something. A ripoff is distinguished from a scam in that a scam involves wrongdoing such as fraud; a ripoff, on the other hand, is in the eye of the beholder. A scam might involve, for instance, a scheme in which a person pays $20 for a startup kit related to stuffing envelopes for a living, but the kit never arrives; upon receiving the money, the recipient flees. A ripoff, on the other hand, might be a business opportunity in which a person pays $375 for bulk vending machines worth $75. The fact that the advertised product actually arrives – even though it is worth far less than the purchase price – makes it a ripoff, not a scam.

In fact, one of the main principles of "free market" is that all buyers have complete knowledge about best prices and deals of all sellers in order to make the supply and demand process efficient... and that seems to be consistent with what the OP is trying to achieve by posting his question on this blog.

Free Market Definition

Where buyers and sellers can make the deals they wish to make without any interference, except by the forces of demand and supply.

Key takeaway from this definition is bolded. The OP wants one price, the seller wants another.

Wow this economics stuff is really interesting.

[junkofdavid2]

Indeed, this free market stuff is really interesting, especially from learning from Guru James that:

1) There's only one valid definition in the world of "rip off", and it comes from Wiki.

2) A super free market freak is someone who has an MBA

3) There's only one valid definition of "free market" and it's from... oops, dunno if it's from either Wiki or Guru James! Either way, Guru James is the greatest!

[bkkjames]

Indeed, this free market stuff is really interesting, especially from learning from Guru James that:

1) There's only one valid definition in the world of "rip off", and it comes from Wiki.

2) A super free market freak is someone who has an MBA

3) There's only one valid definition of "free market" and it's from... oops, dunno if it's from either Wiki or Guru James! Either way, Guru James is the greatest!

It only took you two posts to get something right. Two stars for you and an extra cookie after your nap.

[junkofdavid2]

Indeed, this free market stuff is really interesting, especially from learning from Guru James that:

1) There's only one valid definition in the world of "rip off", and it comes from Wiki.

2) A super free market freak is someone who has an MBA

3) There's only one valid definition of "free market" and it's from... oops, dunno if it's from either Wiki or Guru James! Either way, Guru James is the greatest!

It only took you two posts to get something right. Two stars for you and an extra cookie after your nap.

Oh, but you're a star in yourself dear James... you sorta understand supply and demand, and you even learned it from a Wiki!

Please oh please reply star James, this is beginning to get really fun! We can carry this on to the new year and even onto the next!

[zink]

Explanations mentioned here don't make any sense. Airport passenger service charges are not the reason, since the airline must pay charges to LHR also for passenger who is travelling Paris-London-Bangkok. Actually, in that case service charges are higher since there are three airports to pay charges instead of just two.

Currency fluctuations are also not a reason, since the same phenomenon exists even if the same currency is used.

The real reason is that airlines are "ripping off" passengers which want to fly directly. This applies to ALL major carriers across the world, not just Brits. Here is an example from Thai airways website:

Singapore - Bangkok - London: total price: 38,084.98 THB

Bangkok - London for the same days: total price: 54,550.00 THB

If you want to save money flying from London, check other European or Middle East carriers instead of BA/QF.

[bkkjames]

Indeed, this free market stuff is really interesting, especially from learning from Guru James that:

1) There's only one valid definition in the world of "rip off", and it comes from Wiki.

2) A super free market freak is someone who has an MBA

3) There's only one valid definition of "free market" and it's from... oops, dunno if it's from either Wiki or Guru James! Either way, Guru James is the greatest!

It only took you two posts to get something right. Two stars for you and an extra cookie after your nap.

Oh, but you're a star in yourself dear James... you sorta understand supply and demand, and you even learned it from a Wiki!

Please oh please reply star James, this is beginning to get really fun! We can carry this on to the new year and even onto the next!

I know it must bother you that it took you fours years of university to learn the meaning of supply and demand while the rest of us got it from the internet.

Anyways, back to the OP if you don't mind, you can also try airlines like Finnair, SAS and the aformentioned ME airlines if you want to save a few pounds.

[junkofdavid2]

Bothered? Based on both your earliest post and mine, we're both getting a kick out of it.

Especially that you sorta got the meaning from the internet, or more specifically, from a Wiki.

[junkofdavid2]

OP, have you tried booking directly with airline websites instead of just Kayak?

I was quite pleased since about a year back that certain airlines' online reservations (not the ones you mentioned though) had become cheaper than even my usual travel agents... and surprised to find out even more recently that even another airline I take which used to be very expensive directly but cheap via travel agents... had become very cheap online from the airline's official website; at par or even cheaper than with my usual travel agent. (It's possibly I may just have been lucky though, maybe with 'special flights' or whatever...)

However, some of these online airline bookings require that you fly while carrying the actual same credit card you used for the booking, which they check before you board; and they won't let you fly if you're not carrying it with you.

These were Cathay Pacific, Emirates....

[bkkjames]

OP, have you tried booking directly with airline websites instead of just Kayak?

I was quite pleased since about a year back that certain airlines' online reservations (not the ones you mentioned though) had become cheaper than even my usual travel agents... and surprised to find out even more recently that even another airline I take which used to be very expensive directly but cheap via travel agents... had become very cheap online from the airline's official website; at par or even cheaper than with my usual travel agent. (It's possibly I may just have been lucky though, maybe with 'special flights' or whatever...)

However, some of these online airline bookings require that you fly while carrying the actual same credit card you used for the booking, which they check before you board; and they won't let you fly if you're not carrying it with you.

These were Cathay Pacific, Emirates....

Hmmm, everytime I fly with Emirates I use the same credit card and not once has anybody asked to see it. guess you didn't hear about that one wiki either