Tv Members And Political Correctness

[Super Hans]

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect.

No I don't. The selfish and the ignorant were given a good dose of common sense, which seemed to cure the problem of Generation Me-ers demanding 'their' rights. A swift clip round the ear is a terrific antidote to terrible ideas.

Like Hans I can remember the good old days before PC took hold. In the 60s we lived just down the road from a house with rooms to let. I can still remember the sign in the front window. It read 'No Blacks or Irish'.

And, hopefully, no soi dogs!

Obviously no one is advocating a return to those days. PC has overbalanced, that's all.

[GuestHouse]

There's nothing wrong with free speach of protecting it. My point is that Voltaire proclaimed support of free speach but in reality sought to persecute others for practicing free speach.

Not an argument against the man, but against the duplicity of what he claimed and what he did. I draw the parallel to the Anti PC Brigade.

Badly.

The quote DC1066 posted was spot on.

Yes it was spot on? Voltaire, a man who said one thing and did exactly the opposite.

[GuestHouse]

So what is Anti PC Case so far?

Political Correctness has robbed us of the Black and White Minstrals - No evidence that it has (and was it a big loss anyway)

Political Correctness has lead to the dismissal of an Iowa Teacher for teaching the ills of racism - Proven a case of 'creative remembering'. No dismissal, no Political Correctness, but a large dollop of racism was evident.

Political Correctness robs us of the ability to discuss Muslim Integration in the UK - Google turns up over 160,000 discussions on that subject but fails as a weapon of protection against bayonnets.

Political Correctness has taken Christmas off us - (excuse me while I beat the Carrol Singers from my door).

Political Correctness has robbed us of the Golly <deleted>..... OK.. You've got me on that one.

[garro]

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect.

No I don't. The selfish and the ignorant were given a good dose of common sense, which seemed to cure the problem of Generation Me-ers demanding 'their' rights. A swift clip round the ear is a terrific antidote to terrible ideas.

For hundreds of years Britain fought a war against an enemy they could not defeat. They tried everything to demonize this enemy, but all this lack of respect did was increase the viciousness of the resistance. A small island nation was able to kick them out of two-thirds of their country and by the end of the eighties this resistance movement was on the verge of toppling the UK. The British knew that they could not win so they surrendered and began showing a bit of respect.

Aha! I was waiting for some good old fashioned bigotry against the English. The 'resistance movement were on the verge of toppling the UK?' Resistance movement? That is absolutely stunning stuff.

Now as far as I'm concerned terrorism is always wrong

It sounds very much from the tone of your post that you'll willingly make an exception if the terrorism is against the English. Or Americans. Or any other nation you hold a grudge against. I've met many Irish people over the years, almost all trot out the same lines as you, and all to a man are bigoted beyond belief. And thus the reason for your zealousy is revealed.

Ah, so this is the free speech you want to protect. The right to call Irish people bigots and say 'you people' and whatever other anti-Irish <deleted> you have in your noggin. Again you completely twist my words. I say terrorism is always wrong, but you say that I am willing to make exceptions - I did not say this. It is impossible to exchange arguments with a person who repeatedly changes the meaning of other people's posts and has such racist views on 'you people'.

I think that all the Irish you have met over the years seem bigoted beyond belief to you because you sound like the type of person who brings out the best in people. I wonder did you express your views about the Irish to any of these people - I doubt it somehow.

Edited December 22, 2008 by garro

[MiG16]

alright, so it seems things got off track for a while back there

but I note that people are still having proper discussions once again.

lets keep it this way, else I will be forced to close it.

ohhh and season's greetings and all that to everyone

[rott]

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect.

No I don't. The selfish and the ignorant were given a good dose of common sense, which seemed to cure the problem of Generation Me-ers demanding 'their' rights. A swift clip round the ear is a terrific antidote to terrible ideas.

Like Hans I can remember the good old days before PC took hold. In the 60s we lived just down the road from a house with rooms to let. I can still remember the sign in the front window. It read 'No Blacks or Irish'.

In the 60's? I seriously doubt that, more likely you read it in a book written by someone else who also read it in a book somewhere.

[rott]

Garro you say that "terrorism is always wrong", and then talk about a "resistance movement", pray enlighten us about these oppressed people and their brave deeds.

And "on the verge of toppling the UK"? Even Hitler didn't quite get that far, but wait a minute would these people be the successors of those in Ireland who supported Hitler, the followers of De Valera who handed a sympathy letter to the German Embassy in Dublin on Hitler's death?

"On the verge of toppling the UK"? Very far from it Garro, they were getting nowhere and they knew it, the British government and the Unionist population were never capitulating to them.

I remember having a general conversation with another supporter of this "resistance movement" who was from Fermanagh, and out of nowhere he told me he had been oppressed for 400 years. I mean do you people stand in front of a mirror practicing saying this sort of thing in order to keep a straight face?

Anyway I asked about his life in Fermanagh, and he said he had left there to go to University (presumably funded by the oppressor) but evidently had grown up in his parents 4 bedroomed council house. He would be approx 10 years younger than me, and I asked if this house contained a bathroom a toilet and a kitchen, a bit puzzled he replied in the affirmative. I asked if he had a bedroom and when he said yes I explained that I an English Protestant not too much older than him grew up (in the fifties) in a house where the only toilet was out in the back yard next to where the tin bath was hanging on the wall, the kitchen was a contraption of part brick part wood and tar paper added to back of the house, and that until I was 15 I used to sleep on the front room settee (then my big sister got married and I had a bedroom). Sadly we were neither poor enough nor oppressed enough for a council house--though in Liverpool we called them "corpy" houses.

But my point is that we were not poor and did not think of ourseves as hard done to, but Irish catholics a mere 10 years younger born into a more comfortable existence are indoctrinated from birth into believing that they are "oppressed".

Garro to coin a few phrases,'what can't speak can't lie' and 'if people are wrong you don't need to criticise them just quote them' what you have said above speaks for itself, and may you long think about it and cringe. On your various other blogs under your (presumably) own name you write a lot of sense and come across as a sound human being, makes your above nonsense even more puzzling.

Regards

[garro]

Garro you say that "terrorism is always wrong", and then talk about a "resistance movement", pray enlighten us about these oppressed people and their brave deeds.

And "on the verge of toppling the UK"? Even Hitler didn't quite get that far, but wait a minute would these people be the successors of those in Ireland who supported Hitler, the followers of De Valera who handed a sympathy letter to the German Embassy in Dublin on Hitler's death?

"On the verge of toppling the UK"? Very far from it Garro, they were getting nowhere and they knew it, the British government and the Unionist population were never capitulating to them.

I remember having a general conversation with another supporter of this "resistance movement" who was from Fermanagh, and out of nowhere he told me he had been oppressed for 400 years. I mean do you people stand in front of a mirror practicing saying this sort of thing in order to keep a straight face?

Anyway I asked about his life in Fermanagh, and he said he had left there to go to University (presumably funded by the oppressor) but evidently had grown up in his parents 4 bedroomed council house. He would be approx 10 years younger than me, and I asked if this house contained a bathroom a toilet and a kitchen, a bit puzzled he replied in the affirmative. I asked if he had a bedroom and when he said yes I explained that I an English Protestant not too much older than him grew up (in the fifties) in a house where the only toilet was out in the back yard next to where the tin bath was hanging on the wall, the kitchen was a contraption of part brick part wood and tar paper added to back of the house, and that until I was 15 I used to sleep on the front room settee (then my big sister got married and I had a bedroom). Sadly we were neither poor enough nor oppressed enough for a council house--though in Liverpool we called them "corpy" houses.

But my point is that we were not poor and did not think of ourseves as hard done to, but Irish catholics a mere 10 years younger born into a more comfortable existence are indoctrinated from birth into believing that they are "oppressed".

Garro to coin a few phrases,'what can't speak can't lie' and 'if people are wrong you don't need to criticise them just quote them' what you have said above speaks for itself, and may you long think about it and cringe. On your various other blogs under your (presumably) own name you write a lot of sense and come across as a sound human being, makes your above nonsense even more puzzling.

Regards

Of course you will say that they were getting nowhere. This is why these people who you previously called terrorists are now in top jobs and entertained at the White House. You keep on telling yourself that the Irish resistance movement was beaten.

As for your claims that the Irish have no grievance against the Brits. What the Black and Tans did to my city was a total disgrace, but we quickly sent these vicious thugs on their way. Not to mention the other seven hundred years of terror. You can play down what happened to people in Ireland, but it is all very well documented and even your own government has apologised.

I found the former Irish terrorist activities appalling and would never agree with them. I do not believe in meeting fire with fire. Terrorism exists because of real grievances though. The terrorists themselves might be unreasonable lunatics, but they exist because of support by people who don't feel they are being respected. Give them respect and the support goes away and the terrorists return to whatever petty crime they would normally end up in. Or you can choose to go back to the name calling and the guns.

By the end of the 1960's the Irish resitance movement was finished, but some people decided they wanted to return to insults and lack of respect. Within months these people were re-armed and blowing people up. As a former terrorist said a few years back, 'we haven't gone away you know'.

Edited December 23, 2008 by garro

[garro]

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect.

No I don't. The selfish and the ignorant were given a good dose of common sense, which seemed to cure the problem of Generation Me-ers demanding 'their' rights. A swift clip round the ear is a terrific antidote to terrible ideas.

Like Hans I can remember the good old days before PC took hold. In the 60s we lived just down the road from a house with rooms to let. I can still remember the sign in the front window. It read 'No Blacks or Irish'.

In the 60's? I seriously doubt that, more likely you read it in a book written by someone else who also read it in a book somewhere.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Jai Dee
Personal commentary deleted in the interests of keeping this post relatively PC.

[rott]

Actually he said THEY haven't gone away you know. We were always supposed to believe that he and McMingeface were never members of the PIRA, after all they denied it so many times. And now you tell us they were liars? Who to believe, I just don't know..........

Lovely photo by the way, bit meaningless without it's history and provenance. Couldn't just have been a set up could it?

[bassmaster50]

How are the anti-war protesters risking their lives? Are they going to o.d. on drugs or get run over by a bus while lying in the road? The only people risking their lives are fighting the wars, not protesting them.

Why do people assume that anyone who is anti-PC is a racist? I think alot of stuff PC types are worked up about is a load of trivial crap, but I still don't believe I am a racist. Personally, I could care less about the inmates at Guantanamo Bay. I have np problem saying Islamists are responsible for the vast majority of the terrorism in the world, and many who aren't terrorists are still guilty of not speaking out against it.

When someone publishes a cartoon of Mohammed, there are murders and protests and bombings. But when some scumbag puts a statue of Virgin Mary in a jar of piss this is called art and noone has a problem with it. I am not saying all Muslims are bad and I am not saying racism is not bad. I am just saying, why are people so afraid of saying things that pretty much anyone who has ever read a newspaper knows is true? I think personally alot of what is called PC is nothing but cowardice, and if these PC types were in charge in 1039 we would all now be speaking German or Japanese.

[garro]

Actually he said THEY haven't gone away you know. We were always supposed to believe that he and McMingeface were never members of the PIRA, after all they denied it so many times. And now you tell us they were liars? Who to believe, I just don't know..........

Lovely photo by the way, bit meaningless without it's history and provenance. Couldn't just have been a set up could it?

Well I certainly believe they were members, but I am not a spokesperson for either of them.

As for your comments that the photo could be a set up well I am sure you could find a way to dispute any evidence. Just keep on saying to yourself; "it's not true". "it's not true". I lived in England for a great deal of my life and while most English people are fair-minded there are a significant number who are extremely hostile to anyone with an Irish accent. I always felt sorry for people of a different colour though as they couldn't just put on an accent to fit in.

I am sure that I won't have to wait too long for your comments that Irish people have no right to be in England.

[garro]

How are the anti-war protesters risking their lives? Are they going to o.d. on drugs or get run over by a bus while lying in the road? The only people risking their lives are fighting the wars, not protesting them.

Why do people assume that anyone who is anti-PC is a racist? I think alot of stuff PC types are worked up about is a load of trivial crap, but I still don't believe I am a racist. Personally, I could care less about the inmates at Guantanamo Bay. I have np problem saying Islamists are responsible for the vast majority of the terrorism in the world, and many who aren't terrorists are still guilty of not speaking out against it.

When someone publishes a cartoon of Mohammed, there are murders and protests and bombings. But when some scumbag puts a statue of Virgin Mary in a jar of piss this is called art and noone has a problem with it. I am not saying all Muslims are bad and I am not saying racism is not bad. I am just saying, why are people so afraid of saying things that pretty much anyone who has ever read a newspaper knows is true? I think personally alot of what is called PC is nothing but cowardice, and if these PC types were in charge in 1039 we would all now be speaking German or Japanese.

I will explain to you how the anti-war protesters risked their lives. In the past anyone who spoke up against the terrorists in Ireland were at risk of being shot for their troubles and called traitors. Many were shot or told to quickly leave the country or they would be shot. This is how they risked their lives. Nothing about drugs

Edited December 23, 2008 by garro

[Huey]

Actually he said THEY haven't gone away you know. We were always supposed to believe that he and McMingeface were never members of the PIRA, after all they denied it so many times. And now you tell us they were liars? Who to believe, I just don't know..........

Lovely photo by the way, bit meaningless without it's history and provenance. Couldn't just have been a set up could it?

Wow rott, your either yanking garro's chain or your fully and truly ignorant. Yes those kinds of signs and similar racist forms of segregation were extreamly common during the 1960's.

Hence the rise of civil rights activists like MLK and Malcom X. These days can arguably be considered to have given birth to what is now called Political Correctness. Back then it was more focused on basic human treatment desegrigation. Today because of the ground work thouse freedom fighters (may we never forget them) did we usualy only have to deal with name calling and and less obtuse forms of discrimination.

But anyway just because you act like you think garro's photo was fake, here are a few others from the 1960s with appropriate info for validation.

1) Lynchings, CNN 1960 (not for weak stomachs) http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/01/18/lynching.photography/

2) Segragated Hotel protests with KKK members in 1962 http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/01/18/lynching.photography/

I could go on but it's so easy to find if you really want too, even if garro's photo was fake(and I would bet my D&D dice that they arn't, and thats really saying something for a geek like me ) there are still enough documentation of the practice to lend validity to the comment.

[Boo]

rott

post Today, 2008-12-23 02:05:46

(endure @ 2008-12-23 04:38:45) *

(Super Hans @ 2008-12-22 20:27:44) *

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect.

No I don't. The selfish and the ignorant were given a good dose of common sense, which seemed to cure the problem of Generation Me-ers demanding 'their' rights. A swift clip round the ear is a terrific antidote to terrible ideas.

Like Hans I can remember the good old days before PC took hold. In the 60s we lived just down the road from a house with rooms to let. I can still remember the sign in the front window. It read 'No Blacks or Irish'.

In the 60's? I seriously doubt that, more likely you read it in a book written by someone else who also read it in a book somewhere.

I'm sure there is a compliment in there somewhere. Rott, do you know Endure personally to knmow he isn't old enough to remember the 60's?

[endure]

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect.

No I don't. The selfish and the ignorant were given a good dose of common sense, which seemed to cure the problem of Generation Me-ers demanding 'their' rights. A swift clip round the ear is a terrific antidote to terrible ideas.

Like Hans I can remember the good old days before PC took hold. In the 60s we lived just down the road from a house with rooms to let. I can still remember the sign in the front window. It read 'No Blacks or Irish'.

In the 60's? I seriously doubt that, more likely you read it in a book written by someone else who also read it in a book somewhere.

Yes, in the 60s. I didn't read it in a book. I was there. We lived in an area of town that had a large immigrant population.

[GuestHouse]

One need not go back to the 60s for this kind of thing. A pub less than five miles from where I am now had a sign in the door stating 'No Gypsies' as recently as the late 80s.

The door has been replaced by a plywood board and the sign by one stating 'For Sale or Lease', they perhaps could not find enough non Gypsie customers.

---

The war in Ireland has raised it's head. While not the topic under discussion, and please do try not to go down the path or arguing about the many wrongs of the war and or the attrocities committed on both sides of the conflict.

It does however provide an good example of how a very long standing conflict can be brought to an end by negotiation and discussions between 'enemies'. - It was 'Peace Talks' that brought an end to the conflict, not guns, bombs or violence. Though a very good case can be made that it was an attack on the UK's Financial Center that forced the hand of the British into Peace Talks, it was nevertheless the willingness of leaders on both sides of the conflict to engage each other over the peace talks table that brought an end to a conflict which was damaging to both sides.

Those peace talks where also an example of where excluding certain language enabled the discussion to take place.

The conflict is over, and we now have a Peace Dividend that goes beyond the economic bernefits, the removal of 'emergency laws' restricting civil liberties and the twisting of the legal system to support an untenable position.

I like many here I am sure, work with Irish people as colleagues on an equal footing, the war in Ireland is passed, it is not an issue.

[Super Hans]

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect.

No I don't. The selfish and the ignorant were given a good dose of common sense, which seemed to cure the problem of Generation Me-ers demanding 'their' rights. A swift clip round the ear is a terrific antidote to terrible ideas.

Like Hans I can remember the good old days before PC took hold. In the 60s we lived just down the road from a house with rooms to let. I can still remember the sign in the front window. It read 'No Blacks or Irish'.

In the 60's? I seriously doubt that, more likely you read it in a book written by someone else who also read it in a book somewhere.

Yes, in the 60s. I didn't read it in a book. I was there. We lived in an area of town that had a large immigrant population.

Out of interest, how prevalent were posters like that? How many would you personally see on a day to day basis?

[Super Hans]

So what is Anti PC Case so far?

Political Correctness has robbed us of the Black and White Minstrals - No evidence that it has (and was it a big loss anyway)

Political Correctness has lead to the dismissal of an Iowa Teacher for teaching the ills of racism - Proven a case of 'creative remembering'. No dismissal, no Political Correctness, but a large dollop of racism was evident.

Political Correctness robs us of the ability to discuss Muslim Integration in the UK - Google turns up over 160,000 discussions on that subject but fails as a weapon of protection against bayonnets.

Political Correctness has taken Christmas off us - (excuse me while I beat the Carrol Singers from my door).

Political Correctness has robbed us of the Golly <deleted>..... OK.. You've got me on that one.

That is the response of a very poor wind-up merchant.

I'll respond on one point, however. Google turns up 160,000 anonymous discussions on muslim integration. There is NO platform for real life discussion - you PC thugs won't allow it. THAT is why we have virtual apartheid in many northern towns and cities. There will NEVER be integration while the PC brigade shriek "racism!" whenever concerns are raised.

[Super Hans]

I think that all the Irish you have met over the years seem bigoted beyond belief to you because you sound like the type of person who brings out the best in people. I wonder did you express your views about the Irish to any of these people - I doubt it somehow.

I most certainly did! It's called having courage in your conviction. Besides, it's usually the only way to shut these people up. I still shudder at being stuck next to an Irish bigot on a visa run - the usual charming banter quickly turned into a tirade against the west, specifically Americans and the English. He went very silent when I asked about Ireland's contribution to fighting Hitler. REAL evil, not some wishy-washy self-flagellating guff.

[Super Hans]

Ah, so this is the free speech you want to protect. The right to call Irish people bigots and say 'you people' and whatever other anti-Irish <deleted> you have in your noggin. Again you completely twist my words. I say terrorism is always wrong, but you say that I am willing to make exceptions - I did not say this. It is impossible to exchange arguments with a person who repeatedly changes the meaning of other people's posts and has such racist views on 'you people'.

You should be careful bandying accusations like that around.

[garro]

I think that all the Irish you have met over the years seem bigoted beyond belief to you because you sound like the type of person who brings out the best in people. I wonder did you express your views about the Irish to any of these people - I doubt it somehow.

I most certainly did! It's called having courage in your conviction. Besides, it's usually the only way to shut these people up. I still shudder at being stuck next to an Irish bigot on a visa run - the usual charming banter quickly turned into a tirade against the west, specifically Americans and the English. He went very silent when I asked about Ireland's contribution to fighting Hitler. REAL evil, not some wishy-washy self-flagellating guff.

I keep on thinking that these post's can't possible reach a lower-level, but you pull it off every time. Do you know the number of Irish that died fighting on your side during WW2? These people were not conscripts, but people who volunteered. Don't you have any shame?

So I doubt that you said any such thing to any Irish man on a visa-run.

[GuestHouse]

I'll respond on one point, however. Google turns up 160,000 anonymous discussions on muslim integration.

I think you'll find there is not a lot of anonymity when many of the discussions carry the title of the people/organistions discussing the issue.

The 'Black and White' issue here, is 'Black and White' evidence of discussion that you deny is taking place, is once more denied.

Putting asside the Golly <deleted>, have you one single case where you can demonstrate Political Correctness is causing the ills which you attribute to it?

You have told us of your many years on the civil service, and you mentioned Shysters, Snake Oil Salesmen and men in Shiney Suits but you have not given us a single example of how Political Correctness stopped you from doing your job as a Civil Servant. Not withstanding anything you are not allowed to talk about under the OSA, is there any example you can give us?

[garro]

Ah, so this is the free speech you want to protect. The right to call Irish people bigots and say 'you people' and whatever other anti-Irish <deleted> you have in your noggin. Again you completely twist my words. I say terrorism is always wrong, but you say that I am willing to make exceptions - I did not say this. It is impossible to exchange arguments with a person who repeatedly changes the meaning of other people's posts and has such racist views on 'you people'.

You should be careful bandying accusations like that around.

You really are a class act.

Edited December 23, 2008 by garro

[Super Hans]

---

The war in Ireland has raised it's head. While not the topic under discussion, and please do try not to go down the path or arguing about the many wrongs of the war and or the attrocities committed on both sides of the conflict.

It does however provide an good example of how a very long standing conflict can be brought to an end by negotiation and discussions between 'enemies'. - It was 'Peace Talks' that brought an end to the conflict, not guns, bombs or violence. Though a very good case can be made that it was an attack on the UK's Financial Center that forced the hand of the British into Peace Talks, it was nevertheless the willingness of leaders on both sides of the conflict to engage each other over the peace talks table that brought an end to a conflict which was damaging to both sides.

Those peace talks where also an example of where excluding certain language enabled the discussion to take place.

The conflict is over, and we now have a Peace Dividend that goes beyond the economic bernefits, the removal of 'emergency laws' restricting civil liberties and the twisting of the legal system to support an untenable position.

I like many here I am sure, work with Irish people as colleagues on an equal footing, the war in Ireland is passed, it is not an issue.

dam_n right it's not an issue - the English are a stoic lot - we'll not bleat about it for 700 years. No, we'll just continue getting on with things until the world is a better place, just like we always do.

One need not go back to the 60s for this kind of thing. A pub less than five miles from where I am now had a sign in the door stating 'No Gypsies' as recently as the late 80s.

The door has been replaced by a plywood board and the sign by one stating 'For Sale or Lease', they perhaps could not find enough non Gypsie customers.

Oh please. Just about every single person on the planet is discriminated against on a daily basis. The Groucho Club refused me entrance again last night as I was wearing trainers. The bastards.

[Super Hans]

I think that all the Irish you have met over the years seem bigoted beyond belief to you because you sound like the type of person who brings out the best in people. I wonder did you express your views about the Irish to any of these people - I doubt it somehow.

I most certainly did! It's called having courage in your conviction. Besides, it's usually the only way to shut these people up. I still shudder at being stuck next to an Irish bigot on a visa run - the usual charming banter quickly turned into a tirade against the west, specifically Americans and the English. He went very silent when I asked about Ireland's contribution to fighting Hitler. REAL evil, not some wishy-washy self-flagellating guff.

I keep on thinking that these post's can't possible reach a lower-level, but you pull it off every time. Do you know the number of Irish that died fighting on your side during WW2? These people were not conscripts, but people who volunteered. Don't you have any shame?

So I doubt that you said any such thing to any Irish man on a visa-run.

So I'm a liar now as well as a racist?

Why were they volunteers? Why was there no conscription? If this had been the other way round, the English would have been castigated for eternity. The Irish, however, are wonderfully brave because they had some men who were emotionally mature enough to see the need to fight.

Would YOU have volunteered, Garro?

[garro]

I think that all the Irish you have met over the years seem bigoted beyond belief to you because you sound like the type of person who brings out the best in people. I wonder did you express your views about the Irish to any of these people - I doubt it somehow.

I most certainly did! It's called having courage in your conviction. Besides, it's usually the only way to shut these people up. I still shudder at being stuck next to an Irish bigot on a visa run - the usual charming banter quickly turned into a tirade against the west, specifically Americans and the English. He went very silent when I asked about Ireland's contribution to fighting Hitler. REAL evil, not some wishy-washy self-flagellating guff.

I keep on thinking that these post's can't possible reach a lower-level, but you pull it off every time. Do you know the number of Irish that died fighting on your side during WW2? These people were not conscripts, but people who volunteered. Don't you have any shame?

So I doubt that you said any such thing to any Irish man on a visa-run.

So I'm a liar now as well as a racist?

Why were they volunteers? Why was there no conscription? If this had been the other way round, the English would have been castigated for eternity. The Irish, however, are wonderfully brave because they had some men who were emotionally mature enough to see the need to fight.

Would YOU have volunteered, Garro?

You accused Ireland of not fighting Hitler, and I supplied you with evidence that they did.

Ireland remained officially neutral because it had just escaped a civil war and was struggling to stay together as a country.

Despite almost a hundred thousand volunteered to fight with Britain despite the fact that the British army had been terorising the country only a decade previously. You can disrespect this all you want, but this is what happened.

As for whether or not I would have volunteered for a war that was almost thirty years before my birth. I can't answer silly questions like that.

As for me calling you a liar.

You still have not explained how you managed to be a rabid pc'er in your youth and yet bullying the PC crowd as well. Hard to imagine. Did you beat yourself up?

Edited December 23, 2008 by garro

[DC1066]

---

The war in Ireland has raised it's head. While not the topic under discussion, and please do try not to go down the path or arguing about the many wrongs of the war and or the attrocities committed on both sides of the conflict.

It does however provide an good example of how a very long standing conflict can be brought to an end by negotiation and discussions between 'enemies'. - It was 'Peace Talks' that brought an end to the conflict, not guns, bombs or violence. Though a very good case can be made that it was an attack on the UK's Financial Center that forced the hand of the British into Peace Talks, it was nevertheless the willingness of leaders on both sides of the conflict to engage each other over the peace talks table that brought an end to a conflict which was damaging to both sides.

Those peace talks where also an example of where excluding certain language enabled the discussion to take place.

The conflict is over, and we now have a Peace Dividend that goes beyond the economic bernefits, the removal of 'emergency laws' restricting civil liberties and the twisting of the legal system to support an untenable position.

I like many here I am sure, work with Irish people as colleagues on an equal footing, the war in Ireland is passed, it is not an issue.

dam_n right it's not an issue - the English are a stoic lot - we'll not bleat about it for 700 years. No, we'll just continue getting on with things until the world is a better place, just like we always do.

One need not go back to the 60s for this kind of thing. A pub less than five miles from where I am now had a sign in the door stating 'No Gypsies' as recently as the late 80s.

The door has been replaced by a plywood board and the sign by one stating 'For Sale or Lease', they perhaps could not find enough non Gypsie customers.

Oh please. Just about every single person on the planet is discriminated against on a daily basis. The Groucho Club refused me entrance again last night as I was wearing trainers. The bastards.

Ok, I've been hooked back in to this thread but only because you've mentioned my favourite source of quotes.

as Groucho himself would say, "Please accept my resignation. I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member."

And one other final point - the 160,000 responses from Google keeps coming back, so I decided to put this in context by doing a couple of searches of my own - just for fun.

Here are the results:

Can a fish play the piano - 263,000 replies in 0.19 seconds

Are turnips better than carrots - 104,000 replies in 0.32 seconds

Is Garro a root vegetable - 396 replies in 0.15 seconds

No offence is intended to fish, Garro or root vegetables - remember its just for fun

Ok, I'll now disappear back into the night - where no doubt some of you would suggest I belong

Merry Christmas to all - whatever your view on this topic.

[Super Hans]

I'll respond on one point, however. Google turns up 160,000 anonymous discussions on muslim integration.

I think you'll find there is not a lot of anonymity when many of the discussions carry the title of the people/organistions discussing the issue.

The 'Black and White' issue here, is 'Black and White' evidence of discussion that you deny is taking place, is once more denied.

Putting asside the Golly <deleted>, have you one single case where you can demonstrate Political Correctness is causing the ills which you attribute to it?

You have told us of your many years on the civil service, and you mentioned Shysters, Snake Oil Salesmen and men in Shiney Suits but you have not given us a single example of how Political Correctness stopped you from doing your job as a Civil Servant. Not withstanding anything you are not allowed to talk about under the OSA, is there any example you can give us?

OSA? That's not stopped me so far!

Ok, here's the scenario I was faced with a few years ago. There is a recruitment exercise for low level admin staff. I have a second/third generation asian girl working for me as a casual. I'm her boss, but she does actual work for someone else - a PC thug as it happens - so I don't really see much of her day to day output. Girl applies for job, then does some work for me whilst PC thug is on holiday. I am shocked at the quality of work she provides - she lacks basic numeracy and literacy skills for starters, and her judgment is poor. I also discover she's 120 hours down on her flexi clock - she claims she doesn't understand the need to clock on for 37 hours a week. I like her as a person and we are good friends, but I could not in all conscience recommend her for a permanent position. The application process involves a line manager's assessment, which simply states "if this person is successful at interview, would you like them working for you?" This is a fairly euphemistic way of sifting out people who are no good - tick the "no" box and the applicant will not be offered a job, irrespective of their application and how they perform at interview. I am immediately (and very publicly) called into the director's office and asked to explain my decision. I do this robustly, with examples of her work as evidence. I'm told that that is irrelevant and I must revise my assessment as it is open to legal challenge on racial grounds. I refuse, my assessment is forcibly withdrawn and my director writes it instead. She is ranked 26th at interview, yet offered a job.

Just for those getting a twitch-on at this, I have made the exact same decision about dozens of other, white, people who did not meet the minimum requirements - none of these were queried.

Incidentally, the girl gets placed in the team dealing with community integration, along with every other asian people in the building. She is promoted within months of being made permanent against her will. She is unable to cope with new demands and is extremely unhappy. She resents management interference and hates PC with as much passion as I do. She also has some rather extreme views on immigration.

There are also countless examples of people being promoted because of their background, not their abilities. Some have even failed their interviews, yet been given the post. If you really think banging square pegs into round holes is the way to go, good luck to you. Is having a workforce that is reflective of the community more important than having the most competent workforce possible?

In terms of the job itself, there are examples too numerous to mention of how PC has been crowbarred into public policy. All government programmes have been adapted in recent years, many unnecessarily in my view.

The problem lies more within the recruitment policies; at least for now. In order to succeed you need to be able to demonstrate you've "out-diversified" your opponents. This is leading to a spiral of often unnecessary schemes, propagated by people whose intentions are nothing but naked ambition. They have spotted a mechanism for making pretty bloody comfortable careers for themselves, often with little or no added value. In such circumstances, PC becomes a runaway train.

[Super Hans]

You still have not explained how you managed to be a rabid pc'er in your youth and yet bullying the PC crowd as well. Hard to imagine. Did you beat yourself up?

What are you twittering on about now? It's not a hard concept to grasp, is it?

When I saw the necessity for being PC, I was. Now I don't see the necessity, I'm not.

What an utter cop out over your refusal to answer the fighting Hitler question. I'll pose it again, shall I? Would you, as a citizen of a neutral country, join a world war against fascism?

Do you have <deleted>, man?