Tv Members And Political Correctness

[GuestHouse]

It's a frequent enough complaint here in TV. When in full flow of a rant against back home and/or their former life, many a TV member will bring up the rise of "Political Correctness" as one of the issues that forced him to move to Thailand.

That said, scratching the argument often reveals a lack of understanding of what 'Political Correctness' actually is... But hey-ho, don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

In anycase we all of us from time to time adopt 'Political Correctness' either in word or attitude; were we not to do so we'd not be able to live within society, or indeed participate for very long on this board.

[AlexLah]

It means, true freedom does not exist anywhere.

[Mobi]

You mean like getting the Governor's permission to put up a Festivus sign in Washington next to the Nativity scene, as it by law it merits equal space with Christianity? .....

... And not being able to say Merry Christmas as it might offend other faiths?

[citizen33]

I've noticed one or two TV posters with whom I've had squabbles mention their dislike of political correctness, and wondered why they should bother to single this out from other minor irritations that could be mentioned. It is obviously a big deal to some, and I wonder if it isn't a kind of code for a mindset that also opposes big government, welfare-oriented policies etcetera, and sees Thailand as a more laissez faire environment.

[AlexLah]

What is the true meaning of Christmas?

Is it to indulge yourself in Christmas gifts and eating all day long?

Having some kind of tree in the house lighted up and underneath have some present's?

Having a good time with all the family together in one place?

I am asking you all to explain to me the true meaning of Christmas.

[spud1]

The PC brigade only cause to make racial tensions worse.Here in the uk one school has banned christmas carols being sung at a festive celebration has not to offend other religions.Has the original meaning of christmas is to celebrate the birth of christ,I totally disagree with this sort of PC behaviour.The majority (for now that is!) of the population are from a christian background.Why should our traditions be changed has to not offend immigrants.Maybe these sort of PC actions will answer the op's question has to why this is one of the issues ex-pats moved to thailand.

[So1DoG]

Guesthouse most be the longest surviving troll in the history of TV.

Well done mate.

[mommysboy]

It's a frequent enough complaint here in TV. When in full flow of a rant against back home and/or their former life, many a TV member will bring up the rise of "Political Correctness" as one of the issues that forced him to move to Thailand.

That said, scratching the argument often reveals a lack of understanding of what 'Political Correctness' actually is... But hey-ho, don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

In anycase we all of us from time to time adopt 'Political Correctness' either in word or attitude; were we not to do so we'd not be able to live within society, or indeed participate for very long on this board.

Don't get the hump Humph !

Of course there are limits to everything and we need a certain decorum.

But the PC brigade are often just out to negatively control things, and in their own way deny the way life is.

Look at the nature of the board too, who tends to post?, what are their interests?.

Some of us like things a bit ribald.

Best this posting is removed IMHO, too inflammatory, not PC you see

[mrtoad]

Guesthouse, this is a total troll post. It must be boring in Saudi tonight.

[AndyBlueEyes]

The definition of a 'politically correct' person was once described to me as 'Someone that thought they could pick up a turd from the clean end'. I tend to agree with that definition which I guess means that I am not in the politically correct group.

[spud1]

Troll this,troll that,have these posters just learnt a new computer geek word? Some may find the op's subject to have a meaning.Or shall we discuss the weather?

[mommysboy]

Troll this,troll that,have these posters just learnt a new computer geek word? Some may find the op's subject to have a meaning.Or shall we discuss the weather?

Yeah! let's go with the weather!

[So1DoG]

Troll this,troll that,have these posters just learnt a new computer geek word? Some may find the op's subject to have a meaning.Or shall we discuss the weather?

Spud, i love the troll topics, there of course the most interesting.

Please dont get me wrong but all im saying is for certain people other certain people turn a blind eye.

Its all to do with if your clever enough with words to confuse certain people about the meanings of how you plan your thread to go.

I wont say no more as i might get into trouble.

But guesthouse does love planting seeds

[spud1]

OK,the weather here in the uk is even more s--t than PC

[GuestHouse]

Troll this,troll that,have these posters just learnt a new computer geek word? Some may find the op's subject to have a meaning.Or shall we discuss the weather?

Perhaps that is tied up with this frequent resort to the charge of 'Political Correctness', a need to put a derogatory label on that which one finds too challenging.

[So1DoG]

Of course guesthose but this is PC website.

[dumball]

OK,the weather here in the uk is even more s--t than PC

Whether you like weather or not , we've all got weather , whether or not you wish to weather the weather .

Edited December 13, 2008 by dumball

[spud1]

Spud, i love the troll topics, there of course the most interesting.

Please dont get me wrong but all im saying is for certain people other certain people turn a blind eye.

Its all to do with if your clever enough with words to confuse certain people about the meanings of how you plan your thread to go.

I wont say no more as i might get into trouble.

But guesthouse does love planting seeds

Wish I were clever enough,oh and a smug bas---d as well.PS Please don't think I'm taking this seriarse will you!

[tomahawk]

I am new to this internet forum stuff but it seems to me a troll is anyone who brings up any topics other than such important subjects as where you can get cheap beer or do you think your girlfriend just wants your money. If someone does not like something someone else writes about, right off they say they must be a troll. I thought a troll was a little nasty guy who lives under a bridge.

[mahtin]

I am asking you all to explain to me the true meaning of Christmas.

It is a time to give.

[spud1]

I am asking you all to explain to me the true meaning of Christmas.

It is a time to give.

Is there another definition in that sentence? Like head!

[Naam]

What is the true meaning of Christmas?

Is it to indulge yourself in Christmas gifts and eating all day long?

Having some kind of tree in the house lighted up and underneath have some present's?

Having a good time with all the family together in one place?

I am asking you all to explain to me the true meaning of Christmas.

my view:

true Christmas is when the five inhabitants of my home (one dog and four humans) enjoy decorating a Christmas tree in our front garden and later on sharing a nice dinner.

for the record: none of us are Christians and four of us belong to three different faiths. can't speak for my dog though as he is very secretive concerning this matter. the only evidence i have is that he is neither a Muslim, nor a Jew nor a Hindu because because he loves pork and beef.

[Super Hans]

Of course guesthose but this is PC website.

You can say that again, although I'd be banned again if I got on to why.

Thailand's general lack of fascism is a great pull. Conversely, I've never been anywhere that has so many foul racists. There must be a happy medium somewhere?

[JetsetBkk]

...Thailand's general lack of fascism is a great pull...

I guess you haven't been watching the news then?

[garro]

The problem is that the anti-PC brigade miss 'the good old days' when you could openly call black people 'darkies' or 'coons' and call the disabled 'spastics'. They resent the fact that society wants to try and control the worst aspects of the darker side of their natures. They fondly remember the days when you could openly spit on your neighbor (or worse) because they looked or spoke different or because they went to a different church. They miss the days when being an ignorant bigot or racist wasn't frowned upon so much. Poor them. The world has gone PC mad.

Edited December 13, 2008 by garro

[thaibeachlovers]

The problem is that the anti-PC brigade miss 'the good old days' when you could openly call black people 'darkies' or 'coons' and call the disabled 'spastics'. They resent the fact that society wants to try and control the worst aspects of the darker side of their natures. They fondly remember the days when you could openly spit on your neighbor (or worse) because they looked or spoke different or because they went to a different church. They miss the days when being an ignorant bigot or racist wasn't frowned upon so much. Poor them. The world has gone PC mad.

Were that all being PC represented I'd have no problem with it, but it has been hijacked by certain persons ( usually of the female gender ) to advance stupid political policies, and relies on the desire by everyone else not to oppose them for fear of being PC uncorrect. Eg, the British home secretary is trying to eliminate ALL prostitution by criminalising the customer. The rational is that it is to combat trafficking, but overlooks the fact that most prostitution is by persons who CHOOSE to earn money that way. As most male MPs are afraid to speak out against this idiocy as they would look PC uncorrect, it will probably become law. The prostitutes collective has spoken out against it, saying that the police should deal with trafficking, and trying to eliminate prostitution will just drive it underground, making it worse for all women involved.

Incidentally, New Zealand, which is sickeningly PC, has legalised prostitution, and it has been a great success.

IMO, being PC is the last refuge of man hating women, and their spineless sycophantic male camp followers.

[AndyBlueEyes]

IMO, being PC is the last refuge of man hating women, and their spineless sycophantic male camp followers.

I could not have said it better myself except would have used a simpler word like bootlicking instead of sycophantic.

[garro]

The problem is that the anti-PC brigade miss 'the good old days' when you could openly call black people 'darkies' or 'coons' and call the disabled 'spastics'. They resent the fact that society wants to try and control the worst aspects of the darker side of their natures. They fondly remember the days when you could openly spit on your neighbor (or worse) because they looked or spoke different or because they went to a different church. They miss the days when being an ignorant bigot or racist wasn't frowned upon so much. Poor them. The world has gone PC mad.

Were that all being PC represented I'd have no problem with it, but it has been hijacked by certain persons ( usually of the female gender ) to advance stupid political policies, and relies on the desire by everyone else not to oppose them for fear of being PC uncorrect. Eg, the British home secretary is trying to eliminate ALL prostitution by criminalising the customer. The rational is that it is to combat trafficking, but overlooks the fact that most prostitution is by persons who CHOOSE to earn money that way. As most male MPs are afraid to speak out against this idiocy as they would look PC uncorrect, it will probably become law. The prostitutes collective has spoken out against it, saying that the police should deal with trafficking, and trying to eliminate prostitution will just drive it underground, making it worse for all women involved.

Incidentally, New Zealand, which is sickeningly PC, has legalised prostitution, and it has been a great success.

IMO, being PC is the last refuge of man hating women, and their spineless sycophantic male camp followers.

Oh, so those nasty PC crowd are trying to interfere with your right to openly buy sex. How dare they. I hate to break the bad news to you, but going with prostitutes was frowned upon long before the PC crowd arrived on the scene. Anyway, even many of my politically incorrect friends look upon those who pay for sex as degenerates or 'saddos'.

[taxexile]

An English Translation Of Galileo's Recanting

From The Crime of Galileo by Giorgio de Santillana

(University of Chicago Press 1955), pp. 312-313

I, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzo Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, arraigned personally before this tribunal, and kneeling before you, Most Eminent and Reverend Lord Cardinals, Inquisitors-General against heretical depravity throughout the entire Christian commonwealth, having before my eyes and touching with my hands, the Holy Gospels, swear that I have always believed, do believe, and by God's help will in the future believe, all that is held, preached, and taught by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. But whereas — after an injunction had been judicially intimated to me by this Holy Office, to the effect that I must altogether abandon the false opinion that the sun is the centre of the world and immovable, and that the earth is not the centre of the world, and moves, and that I must not hold, defend, or teach in any way whatsoever, verbally or in writing, the said false doctrine, and after it had been notified to me that the said doctrine was contrary to Holy Scripture — I wrote and printed a book in which I discuss this new doctrine already condemned, and adduce arguments of great cogency in its favour, without presenting any solution of these, and for this reason I have been pronounced by the Holy Office to be vehemently suspected of heresy, that is to say, of having held and believed that the Sun is the centre of the world and immovable, and that the earth is not the centre and moves .

Therefore, desiring to remove from the minds of your Eminences, and of all faithful Christians, this vehement suspicion, justly conceived against me, with sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse, and detest the aforesaid errors and heresies, and generally every other error, heresy, and sect whatsoever contrary to the said Holy Church, and I swear that in the future I will never again say or assert, verbally or in writing, anything that might furnish occasion for a similar suspicion regarding me; but that should I know any heretic, or person suspected of heresy, I will denounce him to this Holy Office, or to the Inquisitor or Ordinary of the place where I may be. Further, I swear and promise to fulfil and observe in their integrity all penances that have been, or that shall be, imposed upon me by this Holy Office. And, in the event of my contravening, (which God forbid) any of these my promises and oaths, I submit myself to all the pains and penalties imposed and promulgated in the sacred canons and other constitutions, general and particular, against such delinquents. So help me God, and these His Holy Gospels, which I touch with my hands.

I, the said Galileo Galilei, have abjured, sworn, promised, and bound myself as above; and in witness of the truth thereof I have with my own hand subscribed the present document of my abjuration, and recited it word for word at Rome, in the Convent of Minerva, this twenty-second day of June, 1633.

I, Galileo Galilei, have abjured as above with my own hand.

NB. Galileo's Recantation excludes two points included in the original formula for abjuration presented to him by the Cardinals. These two points, objected to by Galileo, would have had him declare that he was not a good Catholic and that he deceived others in publishing his book.

[Xangsamhua]

An English Translation Of Galileo's Recanting

From The Crime of Galileo by Giorgio de Santillana

(University of Chicago Press 1955), pp. 312-313

I, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzo Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, arraigned personally before this tribunal, and kneeling before you, Most Eminent and Reverend Lord Cardinals, Inquisitors-General against heretical depravity throughout the entire Christian commonwealth, having before my eyes and touching with my hands, the Holy Gospels, swear that I have always believed, do believe, and by God's help will in the future believe, all that is held, preached, and taught by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. But whereas — after an injunction had been judicially intimated to me by this Holy Office, to the effect that I must altogether abandon the false opinion that the sun is the centre of the world and immovable, and that the earth is not the centre of the world, and moves, and that I must not hold, defend, or teach in any way whatsoever, verbally or in writing, the said false doctrine, and after it had been notified to me that the said doctrine was contrary to Holy Scripture — I wrote and printed a book in which I discuss this new doctrine already condemned, and adduce arguments of great cogency in its favour, without presenting any solution of these, and for this reason I have been pronounced by the Holy Office to be vehemently suspected of heresy, that is to say, of having held and believed that the Sun is the centre of the world and immovable, and that the earth is not the centre and moves .

Therefore, desiring to remove from the minds of your Eminences, and of all faithful Christians, this vehement suspicion, justly conceived against me, with sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse, and detest the aforesaid errors and heresies, and generally every other error, heresy, and sect whatsoever contrary to the said Holy Church, and I swear that in the future I will never again say or assert, verbally or in writing, anything that might furnish occasion for a similar suspicion regarding me; but that should I know any heretic, or person suspected of heresy, I will denounce him to this Holy Office, or to the Inquisitor or Ordinary of the place where I may be. Further, I swear and promise to fulfil and observe in their integrity all penances that have been, or that shall be, imposed upon me by this Holy Office. And, in the event of my contravening, (which God forbid) any of these my promises and oaths, I submit myself to all the pains and penalties imposed and promulgated in the sacred canons and other constitutions, general and particular, against such delinquents. So help me God, and these His Holy Gospels, which I touch with my hands.

I, the said Galileo Galilei, have abjured, sworn, promised, and bound myself as above; and in witness of the truth thereof I have with my own hand subscribed the present document of my abjuration, and recited it word for word at Rome, in the Convent of Minerva, this twenty-second day of June, 1633.

I, Galileo Galilei, have abjured as above with my own hand.

NB. Galileo's Recantation excludes two points included in the original formula for abjuration presented to him by the Cardinals. These two points, objected to by Galileo, would have had him declare that he was not a good Catholic and that he deceived others in publishing his book.

A wonderful book. I was very much affected by it when I read it more than 40 years ago (sigh), but what is its relevance to the PC issue? I'm relying on memory and Amazon customer reviews, but it seems that Galileo's discomfort was caused, not so much by the pope and cardinals, who had been supportive of his work and approved publication of the "Dialogue", but by the academic community, whose current paradigm was Aristotelian and who were wedded to geocentrism. They were supported by the Dominicans - academic churchmen - but there was a concerted campaign from the universities against Galileo and it was this campaign that the Vatican submitted to. Up till then they'd been trying to redeem themselves from their actions against Giordano Bruno.

One is more likely to find activist PC among people who have an axe to grind, are threatened, or who stand to gain professionally, politically or in some other way by repressing free speech. The higher echelons of the Catholic Church don't worry about PC, as the present pope, the Archbishop of Paris, Cardinal Pell of Sydney and others have demonstrated. PC in its aggressive form seems to be more of a career strategy than a heartfelt plea for sensitivity. One learns PC in order to cope in professional life (especially in academia or the public service). A genuinely liberal view of life translated into action, however, should be enough to ensure the vulnerable in society are not victimized.