Cbre Pattaya - Closed

[JimSiam]

Monday this week CBRE closed the doors of their Pattaya office due to the current situation in Thailand.

10 Staff have lost their jobs from this closure.

[LennyW]

Dear Valued Client,

In response to current global and local economic trends, CBRE Thailand has decided to re-focus our Residential Sales services in Pattaya on our core business of Sole Agency Project Sales.

Consequently, we regret to advise our Pattaya clients that from 1^st January 2009, CBRE will no longer be able to offer non-exclusive agency services to individual sellers or developers of residential properties in Pattaya and we apologise for any inconvenience caused.

However, we will continue to offer clients in Pattaya and the Eastern Seaboard our full range of professional real estate services including Developer Consultancy, Investment & Land, Property Management, Research & Consulting and Valuation & Advisory directly from our Bangkok office.

................................................................................

.........................................................................

This was recieved from CBRE yesterday, pretty self explanitory.

[basjke]

Monday this week CBRE closed the doors of their Pattaya office due to the current situation in Thailand.

10 Staff have lost their jobs from this closure.

One down,many to follow.

[jimmybkk]

Unfortunately the business model that has been so successful for CBRE in BKK doesn't quite work in Pattaya. Great shame for those that lost their jobs - hope they have been suitably compensated or else offered positions elsewhere within that real estate behemoth.

[PattayaParent]

Well when they've hung their hat in Pattaya on being sole agents for The Sails and The Chateau, both of which are not going to be built then it comes as no surprise.

I wonder what they'll do with the buyers deposits for those 2 projects though?

[sharecropper]

Well when they've hung their hat in Pattaya on being sole agents for The Sails and The Chateau, both of which are not going to be built then it comes as no surprise.

I wonder what they'll do with the buyers deposits for those 2 projects though?

Yeah - late entrants to an already overcrowded, overblown market, chose spectacularly badly when it came to developments, and are now paying the price.

But I think I would fancy my chances of getting a deposit back from CBRE more than from other agents in Pattaya in the same boat. At least CBRE had the decency to announce their closure. Many others who will go under will simpy disappear - developers and estate agents alike, with deposits, never to be traced or seen again. A worrying sign of the times, for sure.

[loopaimod]

Well when they've hung their hat in Pattaya on being sole agents for The Sails and The Chateau, both of which are not going to be built then it comes as no surprise.

I wonder what they'll do with the buyers deposits for those 2 projects though?

Yeah - late entrants to an already overcrowded, overblown market, chose spectacularly badly when it came to developments, and are now paying the price.

But I think I would fancy my chances of getting a deposit back from CBRE more than from other agents in Pattaya in the same boat. At least CBRE had the decency to announce their closure. Many others who will go under will simpy disappear - developers and estate agents alike, with deposits, never to be traced or seen again. A worrying sign of the times, for sure.

It said in their letter to LennyW that they are concentrating on sole developments only. It is private listings they are stopping. By all accounts they haven't sold many private listings at all. They will still continue to work in Pattaya area on large projects.

For your info. Anytime I have bought property in a new build project the deposit/payments go to the developer not the sales agent. Why would you think it CBRE's responsibility to hand back deposits. They don't hold the money. It is CBRE that is pulling out not the developments they are marketing?

For sure be aware what agent you use and if selling or purchasing a property make sure you control the funds and make sure everything is properly documented. I also feel that 90% of all the local agencies are facing dire hardship. The chances of deposits going missing are a big possibility. I would suggest making sure that no middlemen hold deposits and that you pay only directly to owners with proper receipts and purchase contracts in hand the deals are less likely to go sour.

[sharecropper]

Well when they've hung their hat in Pattaya on being sole agents for The Sails and The Chateau, both of which are not going to be built then it comes as no surprise.

I wonder what they'll do with the buyers deposits for those 2 projects though?

Yeah - late entrants to an already overcrowded, overblown market, chose spectacularly badly when it came to developments, and are now paying the price.

But I think I would fancy my chances of getting a deposit back from CBRE more than from other agents in Pattaya in the same boat. At least CBRE had the decency to announce their closure. Many others who will go under will simpy disappear - developers and estate agents alike, with deposits, never to be traced or seen again. A worrying sign of the times, for sure.

It said in their letter to LennyW that they are concentrating on sole developments only. It is private listings they are stopping. By all accounts they haven't sold many private listings at all. They will still continue to work in Pattaya area on large projects.

For your info. Anytime I have bought property in a new build project the deposit/payments go to the developer not the sales agent. Why would you think it CBRE's responsibility to hand back deposits. They don't hold the money. It is CBRE that is pulling out not the developments they are marketing?

For sure be aware what agent you use and if selling or purchasing a property make sure you control the funds and make sure everything is properly documented. I also feel that 90% of all the local agencies are facing dire hardship. The chances of deposits going missing are a big possibility. I would suggest making sure that no middlemen hold deposits and that you pay only directly to owners with proper receipts and purchase contracts in hand the deals are less likely to go sour.

Let me clarify what I meant.

Being a reputable global company I would expect if I pay a deposit to them for a purchase, or if, say they are holding proceeds of sale, or rent monies for me (not payments to go through to developers) it won't be used as the office manager's beer money but will sit in a professionally administered client account, until disbursed as directed.

If they pay it to the developer and the developer goes bust, you are right, a leading agency is in no better position to help its customer than a fly by night one. But if I pay money to them to hold to my order as a private customer doing a private purchase, I would feel far more comfortable them holding it than a fly by night company.

When their Pattaya office closes and they say "we don't want to do private client work any more" then here, I hope, as a private client, I would will see the difference between getting my money out of their client account adminstered from Bangkok, as opposed to the near impossibility of getting it from an already-bust, already-disappeared "Me Too" kind of real estate operator of which the city has too many and who must also be feeling the heat.

[jimmybkk]

I understand what you're saying sharecropper and I agree that there is a level of comfort from dealing with a known brand with a reputation like CBRE, but the situation you are referring to would only happen if you were paying cash (which is unlikely). Surely on a new condo development you would most likely either be making an overseas foreign currency remittance (for TT3/FEC purposes) direct to the developer's account or else paying by cheque made out to the developer. I can't see many situations arising where the agent could walk off with your deposits, regardless of whether they are CBRE or a fly-by-night company. Then again, maybe I'm wrong.

[jimmybkk]

Just re-read your post. Regarding proceeds from a sale you may be right. I've never sold a property through an agent here so I can't comment on the procedure.

[Ungabunga]

Whilst I don't want to see anyone lose their jobs, it's logical why they've closed, for two main reasons;

1. Most of the 'Sole Agent' work that they had in Pattaya is now gone, with 'The Sails' and 'Chateau Dale Laguna' just 2 to mention that were cancelled.

2. I never saw CBRE making any property listings in places like Raviporn Village, or Chokchai Village, or studios in View Talay etc. which is the bread and butter for many local agents. There listings focused upon the high end and more exclusive properties in the main.

Interesting to note that another large company 'Colliers International' have just opened up an office not 100 yards away from CBRE's.

[anneclayton]

Yeah - late entrants to an already overcrowded, overblown market, chose spectacularly badly when it came to developments, and are now paying the price.

I am so sorry for Linda Ord - head of Pattaya office - probably the only real estate person here who was honest with me. Certainly not a lying scammer type trying to con you out of your money (like the rest of them are). I see it plain and simple: in the bubbled market dominated by sharks and money-grabbers honest people can't survive. Besides, CBRE came here a bit too late, too untimely.

[LennyW]

Whilst I don't want to see anyone lose their jobs, it's logical why they've closed, for two main reasons;

1. Most of the 'Sole Agent' work that they had in Pattaya is now gone, with 'The Sails' and 'Chateau Dale Laguna' just 2 to mention that were cancelled.

2. I never saw CBRE making any property listings in places like Raviporn Village, or Chokchai Village, or studios in View Talay etc. which is the bread and butter for many local agents. There listings focused upon the high end and more exclusive properties in the main.

Interesting to note that another large company 'Colliers International' have just opened up an office not 100 yards away from CBRE's.

Yes, every time you open the property magazines you find another two new agents in town, albeit perhaps not so big as CBRE.

The end of the letter from CBRE was all contact numbers and e-mail addresses to contact at their BKK office in the event of anyone needing further info or assistance, i did not post here as anybody that warrant's it will have recieved a copy of the letter.

[LennyW]

Yeah - late entrants to an already overcrowded, overblown market, chose spectacularly badly when it came to developments, and are now paying the price.

I am so sorry for Linda Ord - head of Pattaya office - probably the only real estate person here who was honest with me. Certainly not a lying scammer type trying to con you out of your money (like the rest of them are). I see it plain and simple: in the bubbled market dominated by sharks and money-grabbers honest people can't survive. Besides, CBRE came here a bit too late, too untimely.

Wow, anneclayton, 17 posts to date and all derogatory to the real estate market apart from your highlighted comments above (is it a woman thing??).

I would be very careful if i was you, laying accusations such as you have about "the rest of them" as that is a lot of real estate people who may be taking a more legal veiw of your slanderous comments!!

[Ulysses G.]

I would be very careful if i was you, laying accusations such as you have about "the rest of them" as that is a lot of real estate people who may be taking a more legal veiw of your slanderous comments!!

Unless he names someone, he has very little to worry about.

[TJG]

I would be very careful if i was you, laying accusations such as you have about "the rest of them" as that is a lot of real estate people who may be taking a more legal veiw of your slanderous comments!!

Unless he names someone, he has very little to worry about.

I am not sure about the more intricate details of defamation law here in Thailand, but in England & Wales and many other jurisdictions, a comment clearly identifying and defaming a group of people is certainly actionable, by individuals from within that group. From memory the leading case related to defamatory comments about gypsies.

However, irrespective of that, to my mind anneclayton should really try to be somewhat more polite and respectful. I am sure there are some less than honest and somewhat disreputable real estate agents here in Pattaya. They exist all over the World and in pretty much every imaginable business. However, there are also plenty of good, honest individuals providing a great deal of assistance to individuals looking to invest in property here.

I would like to know whether anneclayton has met each and every member of the real estate community here in Pattaya. If so then he/she must have met me and I would be extremely interested to hear how he/she believes I lied, scammed and tried to con him or her out of money.

That said, my experience of this individual in another thread is that he/she believes he/she knows it all, irrespective of any actual knowledge. Throwing around unsubstantiated claims seems to be something he/she is very good at.

[sharecropper]

I would be very careful if i was you, laying accusations such as you have about "the rest of them" as that is a lot of real estate people who may be taking a more legal veiw of your slanderous comments!!

Unless he names someone, he has very little to worry about.

I am not sure about the more intricate details of defamation law here in Thailand, but in England & Wales and many other jurisdictions, a comment clearly identifying and defaming a group of people is certainly actionable, by individuals from within that group. From memory the leading case related to defamatory comments about gypsies.

However, irrespective of that, to my mind anneclayton should really try to be somewhat more polite and respectful. I am sure there are some less than honest and somewhat disreputable real estate agents here in Pattaya. They exist all over the World and in pretty much every imaginable business. However, there are also plenty of good, honest individuals providing a great deal of assistance to individuals looking to invest in property here.

I would like to know whether anneclayton has met each and every member of the real estate community here in Pattaya. If so then he/she must have met me and I would be extremely interested to hear how he/she believes I lied, scammed and tried to con him or her out of money.

That said, my experience of this individual in another thread is that he/she believes he/she knows it all, irrespective of any actual knowledge. Throwing around unsubstantiated claims seems to be something he/she is very good at.

I just looked at all his/her posts. Apart from a couple of non-real estate ones, there certainly seems to be some serious bitterness (and schadenfreude) in them towards the real estate market in Pattaya, and much more than a casual observer might have. Is there a personal real estate disaster story you'd like to share anneclayton?

[midas]

I would be very careful if i was you, laying accusations such as you have about "the rest of them" as that is a lot of real estate people who may be taking a more legal veiw of your slanderous comments!!

Unless he names someone, he has very little to worry about.

I am not sure about the more intricate details of defamation law here in Thailand, but in England & Wales and many other jurisdictions, a comment clearly identifying and defaming a group of people is certainly actionable, by individuals from within that group. From memory the leading case related to defamatory comments about gypsies.

However, irrespective of that, to my mind anneclayton should really try to be somewhat more polite and respectful. I am sure there are some less than honest and somewhat disreputable real estate agents here in Pattaya. They exist all over the World and in pretty much every imaginable business. However, there are also plenty of good, honest individuals providing a great deal of assistance to individuals looking to invest in property here.

I would like to know whether anneclayton has met each and every member of the real estate community here in Pattaya. If so then he/she must have met me and I would be extremely interested to hear how he/she believes I lied, scammed and tried to con him or her out of money.

That said, my experience of this individual in another thread is that he/she believes he/she knows it all, irrespective of any actual knowledge. Throwing around unsubstantiated claims seems to be something he/she is very good at.

I just looked at all his/her posts. Apart from a couple of non-real estate ones, there certainly seems to be some serious bitterness (and schadenfreude) in them towards the real estate market in Pattaya, and much more than a casual observer might have. Is there a personal real estate disaster story you'd like to share anneclayton?

If there are more honest real estate agents here, what then do they think of those real estate agents in Pattaya

who have as part of their organisations time share salesmen who are most surely sharks and conmen because

they are only relying on unsuspecting tourists to make money - it is this poor image of the tie

up between these activities which makes the whole business in Pattaya look less than clean

[loopaimod]

Yeah - late entrants to an already overcrowded, overblown market, chose spectacularly badly when it came to developments, and are now paying the price.

I am so sorry for Linda Ord - head of Pattaya office - probably the only real estate person here who was honest with me. Certainly not a lying scammer type trying to con you out of your money (like the rest of them are). I see it plain and simple: in the bubbled market dominated by sharks and money-grabbers honest people can't survive. Besides, CBRE came here a bit too late, too untimely.

Is that you Linda?? Don't worry, nobody blames you for the demise of CBRE Pattaya..... We all know you are a lovely lady. Relax and enjoy the break it's Xmas after all, good will etc

[anneclayton]

I would be very careful if i was you

Bravo! You got C for grammar. Correct choice: WERE. I used to know one German bloke named Lenny Wolf but he neved made these kinda errors...

Unless he names someone, he has very little to worry about.

Bis! You got C for attention. Ann is never a man's name. Correct choice: SHE.

[anneclayton]

there certainly seems to be some serious bitterness (and schadenfreude) in them towards the real estate market in Pattaya...

I do not like anyone who's trying to steal or steals my money from me. Plain and simple.

However, I am very rational. Example. Some foks here will bargain with tuk-tuk taxi for 10 minutes (100 BHT scam), fuss over extra charge by the bar-girl (1000 BHT scam), but gladly give 2 000 000 to a real estate agent (100 000 BHT scam).

Reason? Real estate man is from their country of origin and above all, farang. Strange? Seems weird to me...

My reasoning: I have 1000 times greater disrespect to the guy who gives me 100 000 BHT scam than to one with 100 BHT scam. Very rational. Very nation and politicaly and otherwise correct.

Want to command respect? Be honest, that's all.

[tattoodrob]

there certainly seems to be some serious bitterness (and schadenfreude) in them towards the real estate market in Pattaya...

I do not like anyone who's trying to steal or steals my money from me. Plain and simple.

However, I am very rational. Example. Some foks here will bargain with tuk-tuk taxi for 10 minutes (100 BHT scam), fuss over extra charge by the bar-girl (1000 BHT scam), but gladly give 2 000 000 to a real estate agent (100 000 BHT scam).

Reason? Real estate man is from their country of origin and above all, farang. Strange? Seems weird to me...

My reasoning: I have 1000 times greater disrespect to the guy who gives me 100 000 BHT scam than to one with 100 BHT scam. Very rational. Very nation and politicaly and otherwise correct.

Want to command respect? Be honest, that's all.

im a little confused......who gives 2 million to a real estate agent and what is the 100000 baht scam???

if you buy a house/condo for 2 million then you are giving the house/condo owner the money not the agent and if you are calling the commision fee (100000bt!!) a scam then its not really as you know what the commision is .....can you see why im confused??

please explain further ....im not on the side of real estate agents or anything like that but interested on what scam you have had or nearly had?

as to the tuk tuk and bar girl scenario you mentioned then even thats not a scam as you are getting something for your money ....even though you may think it overpriced,so is it a scam or overpricing that you are referring to?

do you mean developers when you talking about real estate agents as these arent the same thing!!

Edited December 18, 2008 by tattoodrob

[anneclayton]

I am not against comissions, tattoodrob. I am against secondary market MARK-UPS by dishonest agents and overpricing by all developers. Got it?

I want prices for new projects to be CUT IN HALF. Loud and clear. Those who have enough patience will see that soon.

Or USD hit 60 BHT and GBP hit 100 BHT, EURO hit 80 BHT. In that event, if current prices for real estate quoted in Thai Baht REMAIN UNCHANGED, this will suit me as well.

Edited December 18, 2008 by anneclayton

[Grant]

I want prices for new projects to be CUT IN HALF.

Lady just want to save her money.

That why developers and agents is sharks and dishonest people.

Or USD hit 60 BHT and GBP hit 100 BHT, EURO hit 80 BHT. In that event, if current prices for real estate quoted in Thai Baht REMAIN UNCHANGED, this will suit me as well.

No matter what happen to economy of the country, this will suit anneclayton as well.

Because she will save her money.

"Plain and simple" © anneclayton

Edited December 18, 2008 by Grant

[tattoodrob]

I am not against comissions, tattoodrob. I am against secondary market MARK-UPS by dishonest agents and overpricing by all developers. Got it?

I want prices for new projects to be CUT IN HALF. Loud and clear. Those who have enough patience will see that soon.

Or USD hit 60 BHT and GBP hit 100 BHT, EURO hit 80 BHT. In that event, if current prices for real estate quoted in Thai Baht REMAIN UNCHANGED, this will suit me as well.

i guess youre drunk!

if you got money then its up to you where and how you spend it,things are only overpriced because someone is willing to pay it if not then naturally prices would reduce......this is not a scam,its not nice that you find out later you could have got something cheaper but with research/homework /some effort this doesnt happen too much.

by the way new projects will not be cut in half....ever,maybe discounted a bit in future but no way 50 percent

we agree on something........if gbp to thai baht was 100 then would suit me too........also would suit me if i could win a large sum of money in a lottery or suchlike

[Jingthing]

Exactly. If the price is too high for you, don't buy. There is no guarantee that buying property will return a profit.

[LennyW]

I would be very careful if i was you

Bravo! You got C for grammar. Correct choice: WERE. I used to know one German bloke named Lenny Wolf but he neved made these kinda errors...

Unless he names someone, he has very little to worry about.

Bis! You got C for attention. Ann is never a man's name. Correct choice: SHE.

Dont you mean, kind of ?

[Wonderboy]

i guess youre drunk!

things are only overpriced because someone is willing to pay it if not then naturally prices would reduce......this is not a scam,its not nice that you find out later you could have got something cheaper but with research/homework /some effort this doesnt happen too much.

Well, maybe someone is willing to pay because they are duped (scammed) into believing the high price represents true value? Blaiming it on the buyer for not doing enough research does just not hold water. If so there are no such thing as scams. I would say exploiting peoples unawarness it the definition of scamming.

I find Anne Claytons posts interesting and I would not be surprised if she has worked in the business. Although there are decent guys out there like East Coast's David Gray in general agents and developers deserve the scepticism expressed by her. As a group, they have done far to little to weed out the ones that sleep better at night the more people they have conned. Same goes for the real estate magazines here. They are just a bad joke. Has there ever been a balanced article detailing also the not so good sides to a project? They all seem to be disguised advertorials and as such it is good we have individuals on this board who can balance things.

WB

Edited December 19, 2008 by Wonderboy

[papatsorn]

I am not against comissions, tattoodrob. I am against secondary market MARK-UPS by dishonest agents and overpricing by all developers. Got it?

I want prices for new projects to be CUT IN HALF. Loud and clear. Those who have enough patience will see that soon.

Or USD hit 60 BHT and GBP hit 100 BHT, EURO hit 80 BHT. In that event, if current prices for real estate quoted in Thai Baht REMAIN UNCHANGED, this will suit me as well.

some agent will "MARK-UPS" the price but (mostly)with the owner approval ! Since i have been in Pattaya 12 years (moved from BKK)I have sold 3 houses only 1 of 3 was "MARK-UPS" (I did sell it below market price!)

I have also done some business with quite afew agents . I found most of them are ok. Yes i agree they are some not quite as honest as others but that business .you 've need to do research !

as you know i am thai so please don't tell me about my English or grammar (I know...it is very poor)

[tattoodrob]

i guess youre drunk!

things are only overpriced because someone is willing to pay it if not then naturally prices would reduce......this is not a scam,its not nice that you find out later you could have got something cheaper but with research/homework /some effort this doesnt happen too much.

Well, maybe someone is willing to pay because they are duped (scammed) into believing the high price represents true value? Blaiming it on the buyer for not doing enough research does just not hold water. If so there are no such thing as scams. I would say exploiting peoples unawarness it the definition of scamming.

I find Anne Claytons posts interesting and I would not be surprised if she has worked in the business. Although there are decent guys out there like East Coast's David Gray in general agents and developers deserve the scepticism expressed by her. As a group, they have done far to little to weed out the ones that sleep better at night the more people they have conned. Same goes for the real estate magazines here. They are just a bad joke. Has there ever been a balanced article detailing also the not so good sides to a project? They all seem to be disguised advertorials and as such it is good we have individuals on this board who can balance things.

WB

hmmmmmmm, that reply just dont hold water with me. im not on any real estate agents side for sure and believe most offer crap service and high commission for what they do, i also thought most people in every country knows to be aware of them. they arent going to tell you the negatives of buying somewhere......how would they make money if they only sold cheap and in best locations etc.....theyre trying to sell everything on there books,thats there job. if they sell a house knowing the neighbours are shit or something like that then its not nice but thats where research comes in before buying. they are only advising and not forcing you to buy,i shop around and also ask around before buying anything of high cost,if i bought at first place and found i could have got it cheaper at 3rd or 4th place then whose fault is that. that is definitely not a scam,a scam is worse than just bending the truth a little,its more like outright lies to get your money and give nothing in return....im not sure they do that do they???

i bought some land and sold it for more than i got it for.....it wasnt a scam,i spent hours driving and talking to peolple and found some land and negotiated a good price......i changed my mind and decided i didnt want it so should i have sold it for same price, or less?,no i asked for more as comparable to other land in the area then that was the going price and i sold it........same if i can get more for my house,car,motorbike etc than i paid then is up to buyer to negotiate.

i have paid a lot more for things than i should of due to not doing full research........i now check and check again. if you have a house built here then you can get quotes that can be different by millions!!(on a big house).....its not a scam its people trying it on which again happens all over the world...lots of people have more money than sense,whose fault is that.

i too would be upset to find i could have got a better deal but lets put the blame where it lies and not blame those that asked 10 percent more than you should have paid,this happens in alot of business"s in thailand.....a disco charges 3 times more than some bars for the same drink.......i know this but still pay it........its not a scam sorry.

ive been coming to thailand for 8 years and found out within weeks/months of being here that you have to be careful of everything here including real estate.

i have had a friend that was really scammed here out of his money to buy a condo,this was done by an individual and he didnt get a condo and lost his money......thats a real scam........i think he would be happy just to have been duped into paying more for it than getting nothing.....by the way just to let you know ,thais always expect a percent from anything they are involved in....my security guard wanted a percent for just telling someone who ASKED him about houses for sale in the village and we already had a for sale sign up!!!! he wanted a lot of money for just walking them down the village,they werent serious buyers and i wouldnt have give percent like he wanted but i wasnt happy but still not a scam!!!