Police May Cut Thaksin's Rank

[sriracha john]

reported back in October prior to the completion of the land case... Thaksin's case is now "final" and he is "convicted"...

Police Lieutenant General Watcharaphol explained that according to the 2004 National Police Bill, the police officer will be stripped of his rank only after the officer has been convicted and the case is final.

[Plus]

Yeah, but now they argue he is not a police officer anymore, so the rank should stay forever.

[bunnaag]

Yeah, but now they argue he is not a police officer anymore, so the rank should stay forever.

Diid they kick him out of the force?I dont think so.

[bunnaag]

Yeah, but now they argue he is not a police officer anymore, so the rank should stay forever.

Did they kick him out of the force?I dont think so.In this case he still has his present rank till they officially strip him of it.

[animatic]

The pension means nothing to him.

The rank is the ability to still find some obedience via rank.

The real issue is serious loss of face. SLAP!

[Rumfoord]

The pension means nothing to him.

The rank is the ability to still find some obedience via rank.

The real issue is serious loss of face. SLAP!

isn't the wish or the urge that somebody else should lose face losing face itself?

[LawnGnome]

The pension means nothing to him.

The rank is the ability to still find some obedience via rank.

The real issue is serious loss of face. SLAP!

isn't the wish or the urge that somebody else should lose face losing face itself?

no

[animatic]

Doubtfully.

Or all Thais would have non left for themselves.

65 million individual culture battles daily,

bring someone down a notch and you are raised a notch;

SOP social Thailand. Doubt it, just ask you Thai mate.

LOS = LOG lkand of gosip-queens.

Edited October 28, 2009 by animatic

[Publicus]

Different authorities in the government state different rules and regulations in this matter of stripping Thaksin of his police rank of 'light' colonel (he's a lieutentant colonel, not a colonel). Different media are reporting different information from various sources in the government. So as usual little is clear and the typical predictable disorganizion is evident. And as Anupong points out it's rather far beyond the time of his conviction to be initiating this particular form of disgrace.

However, the point is being made that the legal case against Thaksin continues. Anything that makes an amnesty or his return technically more difficult, burdensome, complicated is being pursued. Thaksin has lost a lot of face, which is fine because it's of his own doing. No one is losing face in selectively pursuing and executing existing laws, rules or regulations against him. Nor is this any kind of spark that's going to provoke a revolutionary backlash in the streets.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Publicus

[hammered]

I cant see much point or any benefit in the government pursuing this. It looks petty. Thaksin has lost what face he was going to lose with thsoe who wanted to see him lose it. The loss of rank and decorations may be something that the bureacrats and upper classes may notice but it sure aint going to mean much to anyone else except those who like laughing at the guy and it sure wont change the minds of even the softest supporters he has. In fact it may harden them.

Right now the government dont seem to have a clue PRwise.

[webfact]

UPDATE

Thaksin's royal decorations and police ranks to be recalled

By The Nation

Thaksin's royal decorations and police ranks to be recalled

The Cabinet Secretariat can recall ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra's royal decoration following advises from the Council of State, said Surachai Puprasert, secretariat's secretary general said Wednesday.

The secretariat will also ask police department to proceed the strip of Thaksin's police rank, Surachai told Matichon online.

Earlier the Council of State has advised the Cabinet to strip Thaksin's police rank of lieutenant colonel and to recall his royal decorations, following his conviction and jail sentence last year.

The council, which is the government's legal advisory agency, sent its recommendation to the Cabinet Secretariat on Monday.

It said the fact that Thaksin, who carries the rank of police lieutenant colonel, was sentenced to imprisonment and that disqualified him from holding a rank under the Royal Thai Police regulations.

He was also obliged to return his royal decorations under the Prime Minister's Office regulations.

Thaksin was sentenced in absentia by the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders in October last year to two years in jail for conflict of interest. He did not appeal the ruling but instead argued that it was politically motivated.

-- The Nation 2009/10/28

[ovenman]

Oh well, tough break. But hey, he's always got "Doctor" to fall back upon.

[brahmburgers]

In the news this morning is the announcement that the legal advisory Council of State gave a ruling that Thaksin can be stripped of his Lieutenant-Colonel police rank. It said the prison sentence handed down by the Supreme Court met all the conditions required to revoke Thaksin's rank AND royal decorations.

About time, and congrats to the bureaucrats who finally made the decision. Each one knows heads will roll if T were to get back in the saddle. That's half the reason the decision took so long (nobody wanted to make such a politically sensitive decision). The other half of the reason is Thai bureaucracy moves at a snail's pace. Glad to hear it includes Royal decorations and here's why:

For a scoundrel like T to have royal decorations - belittles the significance of those awards. Perhaps it might also serve as a warning to others with Royal citations and such - to try and act respectfully as befits the laurels bestowed. Ok, I've got my head in the clouds - for a moment I forgot I was in Thailand.

I'll get back to turning the compost pile.

[Publicus]

As weak as these seemingly petty actions may be, they do indicate some significant elements of the bureauracy are coming around, at least in certain respects.

If the timing is intended to be part of the response to Hun Sen and Thaksin it is a small item which isn't going to change any pact between the two. Any further talk of the fantasyland idea of a pardon/amnesty should seem all the more absurd at this point too. In short, the legal hurdles to an illusory Thaksin return simply continue to mount.

This is also further evidence of how Thai society is irritable and angry, divided and spiteful. Any Reds and others who are angry at the establishment are riding the wrong horse, so the sooner they can recognize the fact the better.

India came up with a Gandhi, Burma a Suu Kyi, S Africa a Mandella, the Czechs Havel, the Poles Walesa and the list goes on. The best the disgruntled in Thailand can find is Thaksin?

[rixalex]

Should have happened right after his guilty verdict.

One wonders also about Pol Lt Gen Chalor Kerdthet. Here's a guy on death row still being refered to as Pol Lt Gen. What a joke!

[Rumfoord]

Suthep denies involved in process to remove Mr Thaksin´s police rank

CHIANG MAI, 28 October 2009 (NNT) – The move to strip ex-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra of his police lieutenant colonel rank has been made in compliance with regulations of the Royal Thai Police, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said.

Mr Suthep on Wednesday traveled to the northern province of Chiang Mai with military top brasses to deliver government policies against narcotic drugs. During his visit, Mr Suthep rejected news reports on the removal of Mr Thaksin’s rank, saying that he had nothing to do with the matter which was a normal process of the police.

The deputy PM added that he was not surprised by the move to strip Mr Thaksin’s rank as the former PM was guilty as charged and all of his cases had already been finalized.

The movement to remove the police rank of Mr Thaksin has started since April 2009 but the Council of State has recently given nods to the matter.

-- NNT 28 October 2009

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255210280015

[ignis]

Nice little slap in the face?

Notice on Thai TV News he has arrived in Asia, his car waiting for him was a big Benz with Number Plates 'Thai 1'

[webfact]

EX-PM'S POLICE RANK AND ROYAL DECORATIONS

It's normal practise : Deputy PM

By The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban said Wednesday that stripping the police rank of those convicted of a crime, such as ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, is a normal practice.

The Office of the Council of State Tuesday advised the Cabinet's Secretariat to remove Thaksin's rank of police lieutenant colonel and recall his decorations as he was convicted two-year-jail term for abuse of power and corruption concerning Ratchadapisek land purchase deal last year.

Ousted by bloodless coup in 2006, Thaksin jumped bail last year and fled Thailand before the court read its verdict.

He now lives in exile, mainly in the United Arab Emirates. Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs revoked his Thai passport, but he has travelled to some countries with foreign passports.

The deputy premier said that stripping the rank of Thaksin followed normal procedures for any police or soldier who commits malfeasance.

Suthep said, "Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has nothing to do with removing Thaksin's rank."

-- The Nation 2009/10/28

[slapout]

Oh well, tough break. But hey, he's always got "Doctor" to fall back upon.

I have seen anything published concerning his doctorate thesis (subject matter, etc) nor what academics set on his oral exam. With all this business of his having a doctorate degree you would think he/supporters would take the lead of many who publicize this info on a regular basis.

[Publicus]

Nice little slap in the face?

Notice on Thai TV News he has arrived in Asia, his car waiting for him was a big Benz with Number Plates 'Thai 1'

That he designed and got the number plate himself is good, because he needs to get used to making number plates.

[hammered]

PTP spokespeople on TV are saying that stripping Thaksin of his rank may lead to violence. Interesting. Chalerm has also said the council of state are wrong in their legal interpretation.

[PeaceBlondie]

Ph.D, Criminal Justice, Sam Houston State Univ. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra That's a good program, near where Texans are executed.

[Publicus]

Stripping Thaksin of his police rank and any retirement annuity he may be receiving and the awards besides does further complicate his legal status and relationship with the law. It definitely puts him deeper into legal liability against the state. The PTP et al can try to seize on any single word or deed, no matter how small, if they want in order to start their revolution.

Thaksin's media machine will ensure any revolution will be televised.

[BSJ]

They can take away his freedom, but they cannot take away his merit badges from his time in the Boy-scouts in Brown!

[Rumfoord]

Doubtfully.

Or all Thais would have non left for themselves.

65 million individual culture battles daily,

bring someone down a notch and you are raised a notch;

SOP social Thailand. Doubt it, just ask you Thai mate.

LOS = LOG lkand of gosip-queens.

no. that happend only in the way how you see the small world that surrounds you.

you describe yourself. don't use 65 million other people to justify your manner.

[ratcatcher]

This guy lost a lot of face.

They haven't even really started on Thaksin yet. And he's got a big square face to lose too.

[Publicus]

Doubtfully.

Or all Thais would have non left for themselves.

65 million individual culture battles daily,

bring someone down a notch and you are raised a notch;

SOP social Thailand. Doubt it, just ask you Thai mate.

LOS = LOG lkand of gosip-queens.

no. that happend only in the way how you see the small world that surrounds you.

you describe yourself. don't use 65 million other people to justify your manner.

Someone the other day said there's a little red book of quotations that direct and instruct people in their correct behaviours and which offers rules and ways to correct the wrong behaviours of those who would subvert the revolution. Little red book, bright red shirt - whichever, we apparently need to get one or the other or both.

I'll opt out however, and I consider I'm not the only one.

[Rumfoord]

PM: Govt nothing to do with strip of Mr Thaksin´s rank

BANGKOK, 28 October 2009 (NNT) – The government does not intervene in the stripping of police lieutenant colonel rank and the recall of the royal decoration of ex-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, according to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Prime Minister Abhisit stated that the Royal Thai Police proceeded with the matter itself following its regulations. He added that the move was not a counter action of the government following Mr Thaksin’s support for the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) to oust the government.

The PM said that the government would try to explain the stripping of Mr Thaksin’s rank and royal decoration to the anti-government UDD in order to prevent political turmoil.

Regarding a movement of Mr Thaksin to sent SMS messages to Thai people and his supporters, Prime Minister Abhisit said the sending of such messages could be done in line with law and they must not negatively affect national security.

Former PM Thaksin earlier said he would start sending SMS messages about news and his movements to Thai people, especially his supporters, from 1 November 2009 onwards, free of charge.

-- NNT 28 October 2009

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255210280036

[Publicus]

Everything about Thaksin is free of charge or simply for free - free transportation to his rallies, free lunch, free village funds, free handouts, free mobile phones, fee motorcycles etc etc. Or free to certain Thais in certain upcountry parts of LOS.

Apparently these free handouts designed to create complete dependency on the great father provider and giver are the Thaksin equivalent of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Carniegie Endowment and numerous other such other legitimate social responsibility organizations in Western democracies which have the polar opposite view than Thaksin of their obligations to their country, its people and their well being and rational progress.

Really, Thaksin is the best the disposessed can come up with as their advocate against the established order? No wonder LOS is no longer the LOS.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Publicus

[webfact]

UPDATE

Revocation of Thaksin's honours

By The Nation

Published on October 29, 2009

'If they could use law to kill me, they would' Stripping of rank, royal decorations not politically motivated, govt not involved: PM

After hearing about the government stripping him of his police rank and royal decoration, fugitive ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra sent a Twitter note yesterday, saying: "Thanks for your concern about the government's revocation of my royal decorations and police rank. This can be expected of this government... If they could use the law to kill me, they would have done so a long time ago.

"Theoretically, the law-enforcement side is created to maintain peace and justice. Law must be enforced fairly and equally, but the government opts to exercise the law to serve a political goal."

But Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva responded by saying government leaders were not involved in the pending revocation of Thaksin's police rank and royal awards.

"The process of stripping him of his official honours is routine for convicts and is not a policy decision to fault him," Abhisit said, adding that the honours were being revoked in accordance with police regulations and relevant provisions.

The prime minister went on to explain that the Royal Thai Police had gone to great lengths to consult the Council of State instead of making an arbitrary decision to revoke Thaksin's rank of police lieutenant colonel.

The Cabinet Secretariat, which is in charge of royal decorations, had also sought legal advice on the matter.

The prime minister said all parties concerned, including Thaksin, were obliged to abide by precedents and prescribed sanctions against officers who became convicts. Other former police who had been convicted also had their rank and any decorations revoked, he said.

The process of revoking Thaksin's honours is expected to take a few months and requires a royal command first.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who is in charge of police affairs, said he expected the revocation to be a routine matter in line with precedents.

He said the issue should not be politicised because Thaksin was being treated just like any other convict.

PM's Office Minister Satit Wongnongtaey said two agencies - the Police Bureau and the Cabinet Secretariat - were jointly responsible for the recall of Thaksin's rank and decorations.

Police would have to initiate proceedings in regard to rank granted to Thaksin when he served with the force and the Cabinet Secretariat was in charge of revoking the royal decorations granted to him after his discharge, Satit said.

Recipients of royal decorations have honours rescinded once they are sentenced to a jail term with the exception of misdemeanour and certain violations.

Police spokesman Lt-Gen Pongsapat Pongcharoen said the process of stripping Thaksin of his rank would start once the Council of State's legal opinion had been received and acknowledged.

In reply to a legal request from the police, the Council of State said the intent of police regulations was to punish convicted officers who were sentenced to jail because it was seen as a disgrace.

Thaksin's case fell under the prescribed regulations, regardless of which court handed down the sentence.

Police have also sought legal opinion on whether Thaksin's rank should be recalled as he was convicted over a conflict of interest by the Supreme Court's tribunal for political office holders.

In previous cases, former police officers had their ranks stripped once they were sentenced to jail. However, none of these officers faced a verdict from the tribunal.

Meanwhile, the red shirts are threatening to hold a rally in Chiang Mai next month to show solidarity with Thaksin, causingconcern that street protests may aim at ousting the government.

Thaksin's legal adviser Noppadon Pattama has also warned about tensions if the government insists on stripping the former PM of his honours.

"Thaksin has earned his recognition and royal decorations as a servant of His Majesty," he said, adding that the government was not justified in trying to humiliate Thaksin.

The former PM's punishment over the Ratchadapisek land case was politically motivated, he claimed, and took place after the 2006 coup. So it could not be considered ground for stripping him of his rank and decorations.

Noppadon said Thaksin's case was not about corruption even though the conviction and sentencing was based on the National Anti-Corruption Act. He also pointed out that the rank and decorations given to other convicted military and police officers weren't always revoked.

-- The Nation 2009/10/29