How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father When Not Married

[Mario2008]

Interesting topic, can you clarify something ... if the birth registration is submitted by the hospital, with both parents named, and collected from the registrar's office by the father (with passport/signature supplied for doing so) does this mean he is, or isn't, legally recognised?

Thanks.

Normaly, no the child will not have been legalised as it was the hospital that registered the birth.

You can check the birth certificate. A birth certificate lists four names:

- name of the child

- name of the mother

- name of the father

- name of the person registering the birth

If the name of the father is not the same as the name of the person registering the birth the child was not legalised.

[patrickq]

Interesting topic, can you clarify something ... if the birth registration is submitted by the hospital, with both parents named, and collected from the registrar's office by the father (with passport/signature supplied for doing so) does this mean he is, or isn't, legally recognised?

Thanks.

Normaly, no the child will not have been legalised as it was the hospital that registered the birth.

You can check the birth certificate. A birth certificate lists four names:

- name of the child

- name of the mother

- name of the father

- name of the person registering the birth

If the name of the father is not the same as the name of the person registering the birth the child was not legalised.

Mario, thanks so much for this information, would never have known about this without your thread.

Just checked the certificate and it was registered by someone unknown to us, presumably from the hospital. Extraordinary that they undertake this procedure without explaining the implications. I am somewhat annoyed, but this is Thailand, so unsurprising. I'll now have to check with the UK and Australian embassies regarding whether this has any implications.

[Mario2008]

Interesting topic, can you clarify something ... if the birth registration is submitted by the hospital, with both parents named, and collected from the registrar's office by the father (with passport/signature supplied for doing so) does this mean he is, or isn't, legally recognised?

Thanks.

Normaly, no the child will not have been legalised as it was the hospital that registered the birth.

You can check the birth certificate. A birth certificate lists four names:

- name of the child

- name of the mother

- name of the father

- name of the person registering the birth

If the name of the father is not the same as the name of the person registering the birth the child was not legalised.

Mario, thanks so much for this information, would never have known about this without your thread.

Just checked the certificate and it was registered by someone unknown to us, presumably from the hospital. Extraordinary that they undertake this procedure without explaining the implications. I am somewhat annoyed, but this is Thailand, so unsurprising. I'll now have to check with the UK and Australian embassies regarding whether this has any implications.

The child will of course already have the mothers nationality.

Remeber that since you ive in Thailand you also might want to recognise the child under Thailaw. If the child isn't yet about 7 years old you will have to petition the court for this. (Also, if you marry the mother you will automatically recognise the child as your).

[eggomaniac]

I don't really doubt that the law is as you say, but I'd like to read primary documents. Are there any you can point me to (in Thai or English)?

Besides the present pros and cons of registering the marriage, or not; should one not also consider the future advantages and disadvantages?

Who knows what laws in Thailand today will stand tomorrow? Who knows what the next military coup will decide to enact? Even 'black and white' laws are 'administered' varying on locale, time of day and/or tea money.

If becoming the legal father is the only advantage, register; if her 'future' ability to buy property is the main issue, registering will never be in the plus column on that issue.

[mjperry]

Hi,

My son was born yesterday at Samitivej, he is perfect and we are both over the moon. I am not married to his mother and after reading this thread know that it is I that need to go to the Amphur to register his birth. But what exactly do I need to take with me? A copy of my passport and mothers ID card, more? Do I need anything from the hospital themselves?

Thanks,

Martin

[Mario2008]

Congratulations.

Take with you the birth cetificate from the hospital, that confirms the birth. Also take with you the original household book to register the child on that.

http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/birth.htm

[Chanok]

I'm up to my knees here and can't think strait just out of misery, so excuse my foolish questions below;

If my name is on the BC and I went to register the baby at the ampur together with the mother, does that mean I have shared custody???

I remember signing that paper on the ampur but unfortunately I do not have a copy of it. I have a copy of the BC though.

How do I know if I'm considered as the one that has registered the child or if the mother is???

The mother and I have split up and we were never married.

Another question; If the mother dies or gets unable to raise the child, will full custody go to the father or perhaps the mothers family??? She has no parents, but has 5 sisters. The question is relevant as she recently went through major surgery.

What if she is convicted of a crime (fraud), would custody go to the father or her family.

Yep also relevant...

[Krap]

I'm up to my knees here and can't think strait just out of misery, so excuse my foolish questions below;

If my name is on the BC and I went to register the baby at the ampur together with the mother, does that mean I have shared custody???

I remember signing that paper on the ampur but unfortunately I do not have a copy of it. I have a copy of the BC though.

How do I know if I'm considered as the one that has registered the child or if the mother is???

The mother and I have split up and we were never married.

Another question; If the mother dies or gets unable to raise the child, will full custody go to the father or perhaps the mothers family??? She has no parents, but has 5 sisters. The question is relevant as she recently went through major surgery.

What if she is convicted of a crime (fraud), would custody go to the father or her family.

Yep also relevant...

Hi Chanook.

I have a newborn daughter myself in thai and been reading some on this subject. I know well how it feels, all these questions in mind about what is right and wrong to do and if all was done that should have been.

As i get it, if ur legitimate father than u have joint custody with the mother. With this comes certain rights as demanding the return of the child from who unlawfully detains him, as for example the grandmother. U also have the right to decide where the child lives and the mother cant change his place of residence without ur say. Id also guess ud be number one to have custody of the child if the mother would be unable.

Question is if ur legitimate, if u registered the newborn withing 15 days at the districtsoffice urself that should be the case. Not sure what would happen if for ex the mother was married to another man at this time.

Id wait to hear Marios words on this though.

Id be happy if someone could make clear the pros n cons of being legitimate vs just being on the birthcertificate.

Goodluck.

[Mario2008]

I'm up to my knees here and can't think strait just out of misery, so excuse my foolish questions below;

If my name is on the BC and I went to register the baby at the ampur together with the mother, does that mean I have shared custody???

I remember signing that paper on the ampur but unfortunately I do not have a copy of it. I have a copy of the BC though.

How do I know if I'm considered as the one that has registered the child or if the mother is???

The mother and I have split up and we were never married.

Another question; If the mother dies or gets unable to raise the child, will full custody go to the father or perhaps the mothers family??? She has no parents, but has 5 sisters. The question is relevant as she recently went through major surgery.

What if she is convicted of a crime (fraud), would custody go to the father or her family.

Yep also relevant...

If you registered the birth yourself at the amphur at birth you will have joint custody with the mother. (Just check the birth certificate, your name should be on there twice: 1 time as the father and 1 time as the person registering the child. If your name only appers once, you didn't legitimised the child).

In case the mother dies, or if she is unfit to hold custody over the child, she will be your sole responsibility. I think the length of the prison term will decide if she can continue to hold custody or if you can file for sole custody.

Of course the mother could also file for sole custody. In the case she than dies or is unfit the situation could be come more unclear, as she could make will stating who should hold custody over the child. I can't tell you how a judge would look at such request.

If you are not twice on the birth certificate, you can petition the court to be recognised as the legal fater and can also ask to share custody with the mother. In that case the mother can object to you holding joint custody with her and you won't get it automatically.

[Mario2008]

Hi Chanook.

I have a newborn daughter myself in thai and been reading some on this subject. I know well how it feels, all these questions in mind about what is right and wrong to do and if all was done that should have been.

As i get it, if ur legitimate father than u have joint custody with the mother. With this comes certain rights as demanding the return of the child from who unlawfully detains him, as for example the grandmother. U also have the right to decide where the child lives and the mother cant change his place of residence without ur say. Id also guess ud be number one to have custody of the child if the mother would be unable.

Question is if ur legitimate, if u registered the newborn withing 15 days at the districtsoffice urself that should be the case. Not sure what would happen if for ex the mother was married to another man at this time.

Id wait to hear Marios words on this though.

Id be happy if someone could make clear the pros n cons of being legitimate vs just being on the birthcertificate.

Goodluck.

Joint custody means you share the custody and both can decide where the child lives, to which school it should go etc. Yes, you can demand the child from the granmother, but never from the mother. She has an equal right. That is where the problems start. She can decide the child stay there while you can decide the child stays here and both can change it. There is also no law against parental abduction in Thailand.

In case of trouble, the only way to go around it is to file for sole custody.

If the mother ws married, that person becomes the father. He can however denounce the child as his. I presume that in that case the father of the child can legitimise the child, but that is better asked to a lawyer.

Legitimising the child means that you become the father as far as the law is concerned. That goes to nationality and inheritance for example. It also means that child support can be claimed from you, but that can also be claimed in a paternity suit by the mother or child.

Another benefit is tht having a Thai child means you can hve an extension of stay from immirgaiton based on that fact, if you take care of the child.

[Chanok]

If you are not twice on the birth certificate, you can petition the court to be recognised as the legal fater and can also ask to share custody with the mother. In that case the mother can object to you holding joint custody with her and you won't get it automatically.

So how do I go about petition the court? The mother will definately object to me holding joint custody. What's the next step then and what are the estimated timescales and costs involved???

What are my realistic chances if the mother fights my right to hold shared custody???

My name is once on the BC

[Mario2008]

If you are not twice on the birth certificate, you can petition the court to be recognised as the legal fater and can also ask to share custody with the mother. In that case the mother can object to you holding joint custody with her and you won't get it automatically.

So how do I go about petition the court? The mother will definately object to me holding joint custody. What's the next step then and what are the estimated timescales and costs involved???

What are my realistic chances if the mother fights my right to hold shared custody???

My name is once on the BC

You will need a lawyer for that, he can also tell you more about the costs and chance of succeeding getting joint custody. It will also depends on how hard the mother contest you holding joint custody with her. That will make going to court longer.

Important factors wil of course be how well do you know your child, how often do you see her, what do you provide for her. The more you are involved with your child, the better chance you stand.

Normaly I advise people to keep a diary about what they do with/for their child, how the other parent is behaving etc.

I'm not sure about a good lawyer in Bangkok, some embassies list lawyers who you might approch.

[Krap]

Hi Chanook.

I have a newborn daughter myself in thai and been reading some on this subject. I know well how it feels, all these questions in mind about what is right and wrong to do and if all was done that should have been.

As i get it, if ur legitimate father than u have joint custody with the mother. With this comes certain rights as demanding the return of the child from who unlawfully detains him, as for example the grandmother. U also have the right to decide where the child lives and the mother cant change his place of residence without ur say. Id also guess ud be number one to have custody of the child if the mother would be unable.

Question is if ur legitimate, if u registered the newborn withing 15 days at the districtsoffice urself that should be the case. Not sure what would happen if for ex the mother was married to another man at this time.

Id wait to hear Marios words on this though.

Id be happy if someone could make clear the pros n cons of being legitimate vs just being on the birthcertificate.

Goodluck.

Joint custody means you share the custody and both can decide where the child lives, to which school it should go etc. Yes, you can demand the child from the granmother, but never from the mother. She has an equal right. That is where the problems start. She can decide the child stay there while you can decide the child stays here and both can change it. There is also no law against parental abduction in Thailand.

In case of trouble, the only way to go around it is to file for sole custody.

If the mother ws married, that person becomes the father. He can however denounce the child as his. I presume that in that case the father of the child can legitimise the child, but that is better asked to a lawyer.

Legitimising the child means that you become the father as far as the law is concerned. That goes to nationality and inheritance for example. It also means that child support can be claimed from you, but that can also be claimed in a paternity suit by the mother or child.

Another benefit is tht having a Thai child means you can hve an extension of stay from immirgaiton based on that fact, if you take care of the child.

Thanks Mario, ur answers are always very clarifying and helpful.

Im paying for my children but a bit concerned about thai law and how things not exactly seem to improve for farangs over time. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, laws could change and future risk should be apreciated as well.

What would be the possible outcome of a paternitysuite/childsupport claim? How much would the mother be entiteld to aproximately? Does her background come in to play, for ex previous lifestyle, or is that not relevant. How do they calculate what u should pay?

[mjperry]

Congratulations.

Take with you the birth cetificate from the hospital, that confirms the birth. Also take with you the original household book to register the child on that.

http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/birth.htm

Thanks!

Let's hope the hospital don't forget and just go ahead at the amphur. They have given us a form to fill out with all the information to get us a birth certificate.

Martin

[Mario2008]

Thanks Mario, ur answers are always very clarifying and helpful.

Im paying for my children but a bit concerned about thai law and how things not exactly seem to improve for farangs over time. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, laws could change and future risk should be apreciated as well.

What would be the possible outcome of a paternitysuite/childsupport claim? How much would the mother be entiteld to aproximately? Does her background come in to play, for ex previous lifestyle, or is that not relevant. How do they calculate what u should pay?

The ammount will be determined by he court. You pay the mother, but the money is for the support of the child. Not to feed or cloth the mother, only the child. Both of you are supposed to do that, so the income of both of you will be taken into account

I can't say how much it would be, but from several posts on the forum I understand the ammount would in general not be more then 10,000 baht a month. As said, it is to support your own child.

[Krap]

Thanks Mario, ur answers are always very clarifying and helpful.

Im paying for my children but a bit concerned about thai law and how things not exactly seem to improve for farangs over time. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, laws could change and future risk should be apreciated as well.

What would be the possible outcome of a paternitysuite/childsupport claim? How much would the mother be entiteld to aproximately? Does her background come in to play, for ex previous lifestyle, or is that not relevant. How do they calculate what u should pay?

The ammount will be determined by he court. You pay the mother, but the money is for the support of the child. Not to feed or cloth the mother, only the child. Both of you are supposed to do that, so the income of both of you will be taken into account

I can't say how much it would be, but from several posts on the forum I understand the ammount would in general not be more then 10,000 baht a month. As said, it is to support your own child.

//

Yes ofcourse, money is for the child and therefore nothing to be discussed in terms of providing or not. Question is how much is reasonable.

In my country, that amount would be aprox 6000 bath and living cost are way higher than in thailand. Ofcourse thailand doesnt provide things free in the same extent as in my country or give other benefits to parents so i guess in a way more money would be needed here to give the child a good life.

What would it take for the mother to make a paternitysuite if ur not legitimate father, just named on b. certificate?

Thnxs

[Mario2008]

Thanks Mario, ur answers are always very clarifying and helpful.

Im paying for my children but a bit concerned about thai law and how things not exactly seem to improve for farangs over time. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, laws could change and future risk should be apreciated as well.

What would be the possible outcome of a paternitysuite/childsupport claim? How much would the mother be entiteld to aproximately? Does her background come in to play, for ex previous lifestyle, or is that not relevant. How do they calculate what u should pay?

The ammount will be determined by he court. You pay the mother, but the money is for the support of the child. Not to feed or cloth the mother, only the child. Both of you are supposed to do that, so the income of both of you will be taken into account

I can't say how much it would be, but from several posts on the forum I understand the ammount would in general not be more then 10,000 baht a month. As said, it is to support your own child.

//

Yes ofcourse, money is for the child and therefore nothing to be discussed in terms of providing or not. Question is how much is reasonable.

In my country, that amount would be aprox 6000 bath and living cost are way higher than in thailand. Ofcourse thailand doesnt provide things free in the same extent as in my country or give other benefits to parents so i guess in a way more money would be needed here to give the child a good life.

What would it take for the mother to make a paternitysuite if ur not legitimate father, just named on b. certificate?

Thnxs

The ammount might be in the same area as 5,000 baht. I guess it would also depend on your income.

Your name doen't have to be on the birth certificate, although it might be help. She has to proof that you are the father, probably the court can ask you to do a DNA test. But they might also look at other evidence, like people confirming you 2 were living together as man and wife, people who might have heard you say that you are the father of the child.

[Krap]

Thanks Mario, ur answers are always very clarifying and helpful.

Im paying for my children but a bit concerned about thai law and how things not exactly seem to improve for farangs over time. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, laws could change and future risk should be apreciated as well.

What would be the possible outcome of a paternitysuite/childsupport claim? How much would the mother be entiteld to aproximately? Does her background come in to play, for ex previous lifestyle, or is that not relevant. How do they calculate what u should pay?

The ammount will be determined by he court. You pay the mother, but the money is for the support of the child. Not to feed or cloth the mother, only the child. Both of you are supposed to do that, so the income of both of you will be taken into account

I can't say how much it would be, but from several posts on the forum I understand the ammount would in general not be more then 10,000 baht a month. As said, it is to support your own child.

//

Yes ofcourse, money is for the child and therefore nothing to be discussed in terms of providing or not. Question is how much is reasonable.

In my country, that amount would be aprox 6000 bath and living cost are way higher than in thailand. Ofcourse thailand doesnt provide things free in the same extent as in my country or give other benefits to parents so i guess in a way more money would be needed here to give the child a good life.

What would it take for the mother to make a paternitysuite if ur not legitimate father, just named on b. certificate?

Thnxs

The ammount might be in the same area as 5,000 baht. I guess it would also depend on your income.

Your name doen't have to be on the birth certificate, although it might be help. She has to proof that you are the father, probably the court can ask you to do a DNA test. But they might also look at other evidence, like people confirming you 2 were living together as man and wife, people who might have heard you say that you are the father of the child.

I wonder how that work in reality. For ex thailand is said not to have a department for distributing such funds. No treaties are in place regulating this as thailand didnt sign up. Will the mother have to make a paternitysuite in the fathers homecountry? As i hear fatherhood should be decided in the childs homecountry (thailand). From their to actually getting the childsupport from the father could be difficult?Wouldnt that be quite costly if the father contest?

Never seen anyone tell their story about a situation like this.

[Mario2008]

Correct, getting the money is a problem in thailand as there is no agency to assist.

The mother might be ble to sue in the fahters homecountry, if the father is reciding there. Yes, that could be costly. But would also depend on the country we are talking about. Some countries allow for free or subsidiesd legal assistence.

And many countries are party to the treaty on child support and will recognise each others rullings.

[Krap]

Correct, getting the money is a problem in thailand as there is no agency to assist.

The mother might be ble to sue in the fahters homecountry, if the father is reciding there. Yes, that could be costly. But would also depend on the country we are talking about. Some countries allow for free or subsidiesd legal assistence.

And many countries are party to the treaty on child support and will recognise each others rullings.

Yes i imagine some countries more willing to help out. Some country is more in favour of the mother than the father, and so no where seem to be quite equal and fair. Anyway someone claim that its not difficult at all to get money from the father.

Stickman's guide to Bangkok Readers' Submissions Reply To Child Support And Custody By An Old CodgerAltough i think if the thai part decides to take legal action it will be a lose-lose situation where the mother will have to risk alot of money and will lose it if she fails to get the father. If the father is succesfully sued then he will lose all or a alot of his money as he has to pay all legal expenses, also for the mother. Leaves a probably broke bloke and a mother that might not have gained much. Would depend on how rich the dad is?

Would be very illuminating if someone who went trough this could share their experince, the fact that i never found anyone tell their story makes me wonder...

One should pay for ones children, and more so love and care for them. Best option being a part of their life.

Just a matter of what should be paid in my opinion when this isnt possible.

[Krap]

Im steaing a bit out of topic but relating to my last post i had a long taxiride today, driver being familly father in his 40`s. Said he had 2 children, teenagers and i asked how much it cost for thai people to keep a child. He said 1-2000 bath per child and month but absolutely not over 3000. Considering that childsupport should go to such things as food n clothes for the child thats probably quite correct. 3000 bath being about half what my superorganized and expensive country claims from a parent in childsupport.

Also can share the knowledge that it seems to be possible to delay the signing of the birth certificate more than 15 days if there is a reason. Dont know how that affects things in terms of getting legitimate.

[mjperry]

Congratulations.

Take with you the birth cetificate from the hospital, that confirms the birth. Also take with you the original household book to register the child on that.

http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/birth.htm

Just to follow up, I eventually convinced the hospital medical records department what I wanted to do and they allowed me to go with them to the local Amphur and signed for his birth certificate myself with their help. Now have his birth certificate with my name shown twice once to say I am the father and second that I registered the birth.

Martin

[Krap]

Congratulations.

Take with you the birth cetificate from the hospital, that confirms the birth. Also take with you the original household book to register the child on that.

http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/birth.htm

Just to follow up, I eventually convinced the hospital medical records department what I wanted to do and they allowed me to go with them to the local Amphur and signed for his birth certificate myself with their help. Now have his birth certificate with my name shown twice once to say I am the father and second that I registered the birth.

Martin

Thats great news and very good for u and the child!

[elektrified]

My child was born on 17 September. I am not married. The hospital put my name on all the paperwork as the father. The baby's mother and I both went to the office where births are registered (not the Amphur) along with the papers that the hospital gave us. I was asked for a copy of my passport and the mother was asked for a copy of her ID card and tabien baan. A birth certificate was issued with my name (translated to Thai) as the father. We were both present.

Where do I stand with respect to the original issue raised in this thread?

Thanks in advance.

[Mario2008]

My child was born on 17 September. I am not married. The hospital put my name on all the paperwork as the father. The baby's mother and I both went to the office where births are registered (not the Amphur) along with the papers that the hospital gave us. I was asked for a copy of my passport and the mother was asked for a copy of her ID card and tabien baan. A birth certificate was issued with my name (translated to Thai) as the father. We were both present.

Where do I stand with respect to the original issue raised in this thread?

Thanks in advance.

Look at the birth certificate: Your name should be on there twice:

- as the father

- as the person registering the birth

If the person listed as registering the birth is not the same as the father, you didn't legitimise the child.

[elektrified]

My child was born on 17 September. I am not married. The hospital put my name on all the paperwork as the father. The baby's mother and I both went to the office where births are registered (not the Amphur) along with the papers that the hospital gave us. I was asked for a copy of my passport and the mother was asked for a copy of her ID card and tabien baan. A birth certificate was issued with my name (translated to Thai) as the father. We were both present.

Where do I stand with respect to the original issue raised in this thread?

Thanks in advance.

Look at the birth certificate: Your name should be on there twice:

- as the father

- as the person registering the birth

If the person listed as registering the birth is not the same as the father, you didn't legitimise the child.

Thanks for the quick response Mario. I am listed as the father. As far as I can tell, the mother is listed as the one registering the birth. (She signed it.)

[Artabus]

I'm not sure about a good lawyer in Bangkok, some embassies list lawyers who you might approch.

I'd try Dejudom - they were very helpful to me in an unrelated situation. If they can't help you then I'm sure they'll refer you to someone who can.

P.S. Mods pls delete post if contravenes rules, sorry and thanks.

[Mario2008]

Thanks for the quick response Mario. I am listed as the father. As far as I can tell, the mother is listed as the one registering the birth. (She signed it.)

Unfortunately you didn't leaglise the child, so now your only option is to petition the court to be recognised as the father. if the motehr doesn't contest that shouldn't be hard. if you plan to marry the mother in the near future, that would automatically legitimise the child under Thai law.

[Krap]

Thanks for the quick response Mario. I am listed as the father. As far as I can tell, the mother is listed as the one registering the birth. (She signed it.)

Unfortunately you didn't leaglise the child, so now your only option is to petition the court to be recognised as the father. if the motehr doesn't contest that shouldn't be hard. if you plan to marry the mother in the near future, that would automatically legitimise the child under Thai law.

Does these circumstances mean he has to wait untill the child is about 7 years or he can petition the court earlier?

[elektrified]

Thanks for the quick response Mario. I am listed as the father. As far as I can tell, the mother is listed as the one registering the birth. (She signed it.)

Unfortunately you didn't leaglise the child, so now your only option is to petition the court to be recognised as the father. if the motehr doesn't contest that shouldn't be hard. if you plan to marry the mother in the near future, that would automatically legitimise the child under Thai law.

Hi Mario, thanks for that. Is there any consequences to the child being "illegitimate"? Any problems when he gets older and goes to school, etc... Any problems when I apply for his citizenship?

I never thought to research on TV for something as simple as getting his birth certificate. Live and learn...