Swedish Couple Sentenced To 15 Month In Jail.

[Ulysses G.]

Hey don´t shot the messenger.

I meant Gnarpjohan, not you.

[warfie]

15 months for 2 T-shirts always sounded 'a bit odd' to me, I knew from the start there had to be something missing from this story...

... for 250? Still sounds a little harsh but only a little, perhaps there is still something missing from the story?

[mrtoad]

Wow 250 tshirts - hmmm the plot thickens..... perhaps those defending those thieves should withdraw their support???

I very much doubt that will happen.

[jonaz]

Anyone who shoplifts in Thailand is a total idiot...this is the country of a thousand eyes and no secrets. Everything we do is seen by someone.

Haha. Shut up you *wat!

[luluanator]

They were probably drunk and were being silly. I don't know. But it seems there are many harsh comments on here. I know I've done some stupid things in my life, haven't any of you.

Yes, they should be punished- me thinks a monetary fee and maybe some community service (always litter to be picked up here). But one year of jail- that is a disproportionate penalty for the act committed.

[britmaveric]

^250shirts is more than being silly!

[luluanator]

^250shirts is more than being silly!

Yeah, didn't read that 'till after.

[warfie]

They were probably drunk and were being silly. I don't know. But it seems there are many harsh comments on here. I know I've done some stupid things in my life, haven't any of you.

Yes, they should be punished- me thinks a monetary fee and maybe some community service (always litter to be picked up here). But one year of jail- that is a disproportionate penalty for the act committed.

Perhaps they don't have money with which to pay the fine... hence motivation for stealing in the first place... still a stupid thing to do...

[fsuthai]

Good, they also should be horsewhipped for good measure.

What a bunch of tools.

Easy to see that you liked your pointed "Dunce" hat as a kid so much you traded it for a Klu Klux Klan one in later life! What an idiot you remain.

[gmac]

Something just aint right with this. Did they refuse to pay "compensation", the local "police fine" or were they smug little snots? Considering the importance of the Swedish tourist volume and the clout the Swedish embassy has, they must have done something to piss the authorities off as well.

This stinks of injustice and is exactly the kind of thing that puts me off going to a country.

Yes it's worrying isn't it, fancy not being able to bribe your way out of trouble having committed a crime! The sentence does seem harsh but why steal in the first place?

[gmac]

http://www.ut.se/nyheter/ulricehamn/ulrice...jor(1085791).gm

The couple from Ulricehamn stole 250 T-shirts.

On Tuesday www.ut.se could report that a young couple form Ulricehamn was sentenced to 15 months in jail in Thailand. New information shows that their crime was not only about 2 stolen T/shirts, which first were reported.

Information for the Swedish foreign ministry shows that the couple admitted to have stolen 250 T-shirts during a burglary. They are also involved in an assault on English tourist. The last information hasn't been confirmed yet.

It was the 2 December last year that the young couple, 24 and 21 years old, were arrested since they stolen the clothes from a shop in Patong Beach, Thailand

You don't steal 250 shirts at one time. Maybe you need to learn how to read.

Hey don´t shot the messenger. I only translate whats been reported in this case. "Uppgifter från svenska UD visar nu att paret erkänt att man stulit totalt 250 tröjor i samband med ett inbrott." Is translated as "Information from the Swedish foreign ministry now shows that the couple confessed to have stolen 250 T-shirts during a burglary."

Note: the couple confessed to stealing 250 T-shirts, but they were only convicted of stealing 2 shirts.

Maybe that was T shirts not 2 shirts! Translation isn't always (ever) perfect over here

[Crushdepth]

Here are some simple ideas about this case:

- They stole several items, but only few items could be directly related.

- Got caught red-handed and took an aggressive stand-off.

- Police arrived and the thieves resisted arrest.

- Bail was denied, as the couple resisted arrest even at the police station.

- Foul language was used consistently by the thieves.

- They refused to contact the Swedish embassy and relatives prior to court ruling.

- They thought they could handle this by themselves.

- Foul language was used at the court.

- Hash punishment was ruled by the court.

All these parts, should give this kind of court ruling anywhere in the western world.

Are these facts or are you speculating on what might have happened?

I don't agree that such a sentence would be meted out in the 'western world'. Seems a bit harsh in Thailand too.

[Lix]

shop lifting in Thailand is one thing, but 2 t-shirts, at least go for an expensive camera or laptop.

[NedKelly]

This takes Thailand back more than 200 years to wooly old England whos genius justice system interred people to the dark world of Australia off the edge of the planet in some minds.....for stealing a loaf of bread or in the case of my ancestors.....a pair of shoes! But on the postiive side for my ancestors....I think they did it deliberately to get a free ticket to the golden land downunder.....smart buggers.

[Phil Conners]

Good, they also should be horsewhipped for good measure.

What a bunch of tools.

You assume they are guilty

Do you actually live in Thailand? Do you integrate with Thais? Can you discuss things with Thais in their own language? Your response indicates not

No They ARE guilty. They have been to court and found guilty. They have accepted the fact and taken a reduced sentence and given up the right to appeal.

I don't agree with the horse whipping which I took as a humourus response, OH and to your other queries then Yes, Yes and Yes

Have you ever seen how confessions are being beaten out of people here?

[TAWP]

Why would they confess to 250 T-shirts and the sentencing only be for 2 (t-)shirts? Surely it would be for 250, as it was 15 months...?

This article and the followups badly lacks any direct first-hand info (i.e. court transcripts) and only has a lot of confusing third-hand accounts...

[mrtoad]

Good, they also should be horsewhipped for good measure.

What a bunch of tools.

Easy to see that you liked your pointed "Dunce" hat as a kid so much you traded it for a Klu Klux Klan one in later life! What an idiot you remain.

Another one.

You clearly are a dunce, as you didn't pick up the ironic humour that it was meant to be taken in .You better get in line with theother 3 or 4, who need a humour transplant, and maybe read a litte bit more -post 132- (might maske you understand), before jumping to conclusions.

Edited January 18, 2009 by mrtoad

[Hawkup2000]

Why would they confess to 250 T-shirts and the sentencing only be for 2 (t-)shirts? Surely it would be for 250, as it was 15 months...?

This article and the followups badly lacks any direct first-hand info (i.e. court transcripts) and only has a lot of confusing third-hand accounts...

I know. There is something fishy about this whole story, but as a Swede you can read the reports I read. I try to post when I see something substantial. My guess is that they got caught and a naive mom called the local media. Local media published the story without doublechecking it. Voila, the wheel started to spin.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Hawkup2000

[harleyclarkey]

Good, they also should be horsewhipped for good measure.

What a bunch of tools.

Mr Toad.....

You mean they need a darn good frogging!?

No. Seriously...yes they did do a wrong but they don't deserve this. Just another inhumane racist action by the hateful Thai establishment.

Remember the BUS load of foreigners recently robbed of thousands of Euro/cameras/iPods/etc....not two rotton T_Shirts. The owner and robbers got hardly a smack on the wrist.

Rob a Thai of two shirts worth 200 Baht and you suffer a Thai jail for years.

Rob a bus load of foreigners of thousands and get away with it.

The robbery is well detailed here on TV

Edited January 18, 2009 by harleyclarkey

[harleyclarkey]

This takes Thailand back more than 200 years to wooly old England whos genius justice system interred people to the dark world of Australia off the edge of the planet in some minds.....for stealing a loaf of bread or in the case of my ancestors.....a pair of shoes! But on the postiive side for my ancestors....I think they did it deliberately to get a free ticket to the golden land downunder.....smart buggers.

You are right Ned.

As people who suffered for centuries....yes, centuries... at the hands of those English barbarians with their savage laws the Thai "justice" system (does it exist for a foreigner?) seems to be loosly based on the same principles.

Anyone else but a Thai in front of a judge seems to hold little chance of success with their case.

Here the opposite is nearly the case. A foreigner gets more leniency than a local.

[mrtoad]

Good, they also should be horsewhipped for good measure.

What a bunch of tools.

Mr Toad.....

You mean they need a darn good frogging!?

No. Seriously...yes they did do a wrong but they don't deserve this. Just another inhumane racist action by the hateful Thai establishment.

Remember the BUS load of foreigners recently robbed of thousands of Euro/cameras/iPods/etc....not two rotton T_Shirts. The owner and robbers got hardly a smack on the wrist.

Rob a Thai of two shirts worth 200 Baht and you suffer a Thai jail for years.

Rob a bus load of foreigners of thousands and get away with it.

The robbery is well detailed here on TV

Why don't some of you understand tounge in cheek humour? And refer to my other posts such as Post Number 132 and 257 - which may help you understand a little bit more, rather than jumping staright onto a comment that you clearly don't understand the context that t was meant in.

[Ulysses G.]

Why would they confess to 250 T-shirts and the sentencing only be for 2 (t-)shirts? Surely it would be for 250, as it was 15 months...?

It is quite normal in courts in America to get defendants to plead guilty to just a few serious charges, rather than plead innocent to a lot of charges. It certainly appears that these little creeps were doing a lot of stealing and got what they deserved.

[TAWP]

Why would they confess to 250 T-shirts and the sentencing only be for 2 (t-)shirts? Surely it would be for 250, as it was 15 months...?

It is quite normal in courts in America to get defendants to plead guilty to just a few serious charges, rather than plead innocent to a lot of charges. It certainly appears that these little creeps were doing a lot of stealing and got what they deserved.

Which puts us back at square one...when is 15 months fair for 2 t-shirts? Your argument is false of course.

What is more likely is that the confession might have been for the full amount (or 'for the crime as a total', no amount given) and the initial number of (2) t-shirts was a media-duck.

Again, if any journalist that visits this forum are able to get a hold of the court transcripts...

[harleyclarkey]

Good, they also should be horsewhipped for good measure.

What a bunch of tools.

Mr Toad.....

You mean they need a darn good frogging!?

No. Seriously...yes they did do a wrong but they don't deserve this. Just another inhumane racist action by the hateful Thai establishment.

Remember the BUS load of foreigners recently robbed of thousands of Euro/cameras/iPods/etc....not two rotton T_Shirts. The owner and robbers got hardly a smack on the wrist.

Rob a Thai of two shirts worth 200 Baht and you suffer a Thai jail for years.

Rob a bus load of foreigners of thousands and get away with it.

The robbery is well detailed here on TV

Why don't some of you understand tounge in cheek humour? And refer to my other posts such as Post Number 132 and 257 - which may help you understand a little bit more, rather than jumping staright onto a comment that you clearly don't understand the context that t was meant in.

Relax Mr Frog/Toad....don't jump too quick.

I also was being tongue in cheek.....did you not get it ...A darn good frogging/flogging???

From reading some of the readers comments directed at you a lot of people didn't find your original remark very funny.

Guess we are all wrong.

Edited January 18, 2009 by harleyclarkey

[brahmburgers]

Let me ask Thaivisaites: if a neophyte tourist couple are strolling in an outdoor tourist shopping area, and a vendor suddenly grabs the woman's wrist and yells "thief! you stole this shirt! I call police! You go jail long time!" What do you suggest the man to do? Regardless of what you suggest, you can bet he'll most likely take out his wallet and try to shut the vendor up with 1,000 baht bills.

I've NEVER heard of this happening to anyone in Thailand - EVER. Stay off the Magic Mushrooms Old Chap.

The oracle has spoken. It may come as a shock to you but because you have never heard of something or seen something it doesn't necesssarily mean it didn't happen.

BTW I too doubt the story but it is possible that it is true.

Ulysses, if you've read this thread, you have heard of it, because I mentioned it in an earlier post. To wit; I was a direct eyewitness to the exact scenario, where a Thai vendor in a crowded tourist market in C.Mai, grabbed a farang woman's wrist and immediately shouted loud in English, "YOU STOLE A WATCH. I CALL POLICE. YOU GO JAIL LONG TIME!" He was relentless, and kept shouting over and over while her flustered mate whipped out his wallet to fork over all the 1,000 baht bills in his wallet.

Granted, I don't know for sure whether the woman tried to steal a watch, but the scenario appeared to show she didn't, and that it was an ugly set-up. Even if she did try to steal, the vendor was juicing it for all he could. Ordinarily, a vendor would deal with such a thing in a less hysterical manner.

I hope I'm not giving unscrupulous vendors any ideas, but I saw it plain as day. Perhaps it was just an anomaly, .....but maybe it has happened elsewhere in Thailand - or the same vendor pulls the scam every so often. We don't know. But the fact is it happened, and it could happen again - in C.Mai or elsewhere - especially if it's shown to be such an effective way of making quick money.

Did authorities find a big bunch of the vendor's unpaid-for T-shirts in the Swede's room? The whole things sounds fishy to me. At this juncture, I side with the Swedes being set-up. At the least, they were highly pressured to tell police what they wanted to hear.

Remember when you were a kid, and someone accused you taking something you didn't take? They might have said, "you took two cookies", and you were angry and retorted with; "oh yea sure, I took a million cookies!" The Swedes saying they took 250 shirts could have been some immature retort to the (possibly false) accusation that they stole. It's possible they didn't steal anything. I'd like to hear some facts.

[mrtoad]

Good, they also should be horsewhipped for good measure.

What a bunch of tools.

Mr Toad.....

You mean they need a darn good frogging!?

No. Seriously...yes they did do a wrong but they don't deserve this. Just another inhumane racist action by the hateful Thai establishment.

Remember the BUS load of foreigners recently robbed of thousands of Euro/cameras/iPods/etc....not two rotton T_Shirts. The owner and robbers got hardly a smack on the wrist.

Rob a Thai of two shirts worth 200 Baht and you suffer a Thai jail for years.

Rob a bus load of foreigners of thousands and get away with it.

The robbery is well detailed here on TV

Why don't some of you understand tounge in cheek humour? And refer to my other posts such as Post Number 132 and 257 - which may help you understand a little bit more, rather than jumping staright onto a comment that you clearly don't understand the context that t was meant in.

Relax Mr Frog/Toad....don't jump too quick.

I also was being tongue in cheek.....did you not get it ...A darn good frogging/flogging???

From reading some of the readers comments directed at you a lot of people didn't find your original remark very funny.

Guess we are all wrong.

Apolgies mate, I realised after re-reading, but then twas to late to change it.

I suppose just a little defensive, considering some of the other posts. Just on correction though, you said a lot didn't like it, by my guess, it was 5 or 6, who didn't understand the context that it was written it, so considering the amount of views, I'd guess there was more people who did realise the tounge in cheek element.

God, I need a beer now!

Edited January 18, 2009 by mrtoad

[Ulysses G.]

Granted, I don't know for sure whether the woman tried to steal a watch

This is the only part of your story that really matters. You have no idea if this person was innocent, or not, but you are implying that she was because you apparently enjoy stirring the shit. The fact that the thief immediately started throwing thousand baht notes at their accuser tells me that he was right. From everything that I have seen in Thailand, I would be MUCH more inclined to believe the Thai vendor than you or the shoplifter.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Priceless]

Several people have been requesting facts. I personally think they are to be found in the Swedish newspaper article, as translated by Hawkup2000: 'Information [from] the Swedish Foreign Ministry [now] shows that the couple admitted to have stolen 250 T-shirts during a burglary.' (Original Swedish text: 'Uppgifter från svenska UD visar nu att paret erkänt att man stulit totalt 250 tröjor i samband med ett inbrott.') There is no real reason to doubt either the Ministry or the newspaper, which is their home town local and if anything should err on the side of the accused.

In my book there's a big difference between shoplifting and burglary, as there is between 2 and 250 items. The former act can be a spur of the moment impulse, the latter is pre-meditated. There is also a difference between two shirts, which could be for personal use, and 250 which is obviously with intent to sell.

I fully understand and agree with UG's lack of sympathy for the perpetrators (he makes his living running a shop), and I assume he would also differentiate between a shoplifter and someone breaking into his shop and stealing a large part of the inventory.

I would venture to guess that the incorrect information in this case is the original 'two T-shirts', which information seems to have been refuted by the Swedish Foreign Ministry.

/ Priceless

[hamishgillan]

there has obviously been a missunderstanding somewhere, apparently it was loads of t shirts during a robbery and an assult on another tourist too....(?).....

[Morty]

Uppgifter från svenska UD visar nu att paret erkänt att man stulit totalt 250 tröjor i samband med ett inbrott. Dessutom figurerar en påstådd misshandel av en engelsk turist. Den sista uppgiften har dock inte gått att få bekräftad.

Translation

According to information from the Swedish UD (foreign office) the couple have confessed to stealing 250 T-shirts (could be sweaters as well) in connection with a break in/burglary. There is also unconfirmed accusations of beating an English tourist. Although this allegation has not been verified (by Swedish UD or Thai police).

Det var den 2 december förra året som det unga paret, 24 och 21 år gamla, greps sedan de stulit klädesplaggen ur en butik i Patong Beach i Thailand.

Translation

The young couple, of 24 and 21, was arrested on the 2. December last year, since they had stolen the clothes (the 250 items) from a shop in Patong Beach, Thailand.

Vid tisdagens rättegång blev domen för de båda 1 år och tre månaders fängelse vardera.

Detta efter det att de skriftligt erkänt sitt brott. Hade man inte gjort det hade paret riskerat att strafftiden fördubblats.

Translation

At Tuesdays trial they where each sentenced to one year and three months in jail.

The sentence was meted out on the strength of written confessions by the defendants.

Without the signed confessions the couple ran the risk of two and a half year jail time, if found guilty.

Någon rättslig assistens fick inte heller paret vid tisdagens rättegång. Anklagelserna lästes upp och därpå följde den hårda domen. Detta utan något annan rättslig prövning eftersom paret erkänt brottet.

Translation

The couple did not have legal council at the trial, so the accusations where read to the judge, who subsequently sentenced the couple. There was no hearing of witnesses or review of evidence, since the couple had already confessed.

Paret har också avsagt sig rätten att få sitt fall prövad i en högre instans.

Translation

The couple have waived their right to appeal to an higher court.

Ulricehamnsparet reste till Thailand i mitten av november och hade planerat att stanna kvar till i början av januari.

Translation

The Ulricehamn couple traveled to Thailand in the middle of November and their plan was to stay until the beginning of January.

Link to the story in Swedish

It might look like they where apprehended after the the fact, and stolen property where found in their possession (from an earlier burglary). The story is not clear on this point. It also seems they went to court without legal representation, and that they signed papers in thai without an interpreter.