Uk Debt Chasing Me

[imaneggspurt]

This thread has certainly opened up a can of worms, and I have been watching with interest, especially interested in the level of response.

I think there are three groups of people here, those who borrow with no intention of repaying and I would suggest that this criminal minded minority will blame the banks, indeed they will blame everyone bar themselves, though you may ask yourselves how on earth did they pass the banks credit checks.

Then there are the self righteous people who will decry everyone who finds themselves in financial difficulty, though in theory they are probably right, especially regarding those in my first category.

The third category, and I suspect the OP is in this group, took out a loan or ran up an overdraft with every intention of paying it back and his circumstances have now changed, and he is now not in a position to do so. You may ask why he is in Thailand asking the question on this forum rather than facing up to his responsibilities back in the UK, and I am sure his creditors will be asking the same.

I think the banks should ensure that such debts are managed in house rather than passing them onto these bully boy debt collectors, but you will probably find that the banks have exhausted all options before selling the debt, though I could be wrong.

I think that people in such a position as the OP should make a realistic offer of repayment even if it hurts a bit, in such circumstances the bank will probably accept a compromise, even if only 50%, certainly if a realistic offer has been made it is unlikely that they will be granted a court judgement.

Certainly £6k is not enormous for the banks but multiply it a number of times and you may see the route of the problem the world now faces.

Back to the question, as has been pointed out this debt seems to be a civil matter and whilst the debt collectors will use whatever bully boy tactics they can think of, they have no jurisdiction in Thailand, nor can they get your visa revoked. In fact a County Court has no jurisdiction in Thailand, especially as it seems your creditors are aware of your address in Thailand.

I would contact one of the many organisations in the UK who can advise people in your position, such as National Debtline, they will give realistic advice as well as advising you on the law, I certainly wouldn't inflame the situation by sending sarcastic letters informing your creditors how comfortable you are here in Thailand, as satisfying as it might be, it might come back to haunt you, and it's not going to go away.

Here is the root of most problems "though you may ask yourselves how on earth did they pass the banks credit checks." ..but i agree with you and i feel that in most cases loans were probably taken out in good faith, and circumstances do change,.businesses are dropping like flies in the uk ,if GM and such like couldnt see this recession looming how did the man in the street stand a chance,.

[imaneggspurt]

Thank you, finally - britmaveric! It's fraud. If you can afford to repay, then repay. You owe the money.

Absolute crap !,. it is only fraud if the loan is taken out illegally, where do you guys get this drivel.

Fraud if you take out a loan with no intention of paying it back.

Brit, no offence, that is a grey area..its fraud if he uses another name or details,lies dont count as the lender is responsible for a check/means test,..you almost almost never see a bank or loan company taking a customer to court for lying on applications as a good defense lawyer quite rightly would say "you made a bad decision ".or your checks werent thorough,..its really no different to us lending a friend money and he turns out to be no good after all, we made a bad decision, or were too trusting,.and i think a lot of us have done that,.. Edited January 18, 2009 by imaneggspurt

[rixalex]

This thread has certainly opened up a can of worms, and I have been watching with interest, especially interested in the level of response.

I think there are three groups of people here, those who borrow with no intention of repaying and I would suggest that this criminal minded minority will blame the banks, indeed they will blame everyone bar themselves, though you may ask yourselves how on earth did they pass the banks credit checks.

Then there are the self righteous people who will decry everyone who finds themselves in financial difficulty, though in theory they are probably right, especially regarding those in my first category.

The third category, and I suspect the OP is in this group, took out a loan or ran up an overdraft with every intention of paying it back and his circumstances have now changed, and he is now not in a position to do so. You may ask why he is in Thailand asking the question on this forum rather than facing up to his responsibilities back in the UK, and I am sure his creditors will be asking the same.

I think the banks should ensure that such debts are managed in house rather than passing them onto these bully boy debt collectors, but you will probably find that the banks have exhausted all options before selling the debt, though I could be wrong.

I think that people in such a position as the OP should make a realistic offer of repayment even if it hurts a bit, in such circumstances the bank will probably accept a compromise, even if only 50%, certainly if a realistic offer has been made it is unlikely that they will be granted a court judgement.

Certainly £6k is not enormous for the banks but multiply it a number of times and you may see the route of the problem the world now faces.

Back to the question, as has been pointed out this debt seems to be a civil matter and whilst the debt collectors will use whatever bully boy tactics they can think of, they have no jurisdiction in Thailand, nor can they get your visa revoked. In fact a County Court has no jurisdiction in Thailand, especially as it seems your creditors are aware of your address in Thailand.

I would contact one of the many organisations in the UK who can advise people in your position, such as National Debtline, they will give realistic advice as well as advising you on the law, I certainly wouldn't inflame the situation by sending sarcastic letters informing your creditors how comfortable you are here in Thailand, as satisfying as it might be, it might come back to haunt you, and it's not going to go away.

A good post Mr Old Git.

With regards to your comments about the self-righteous people though - i don't think you'll find many who decry all those who find themselves in financial difficulty. The decrying is specifically for those who are in financial difficulty and who think they are completely blameless and act as victims feeling sorry for themselves. Rather than try to find someway of repaying, which really wouldn't be too difficult as the banks will usually accept any terms providing it shows willingness, they tell themselves that it's all the bank's fault and that the mess they are in is none of their own doing.

Be a man <deleted> and deal with your problems like an adult, rather than standing around pointing the finger at others.

[taxexile]

the op came here asking if it were possible for uk debt collectors to pursue his debt in thailand , if he had any intention of re paying this debt , it would have been done years ago , he has been living and working here for years , so we can assume that had he wanted to pay it back he could have put a few pounds a week aside and paid it off by now.

he obviously had and has no intention of paying it back , he has received a letter or a call from the uk and is scared , and he has come to thai visa seeking advice on how to avoid re paying his debt , that is immoral if not illegal , and under the posting rules of thai visa should not be allowed.

would they allow posting about an advertiser/sponsor trying to avoid to pay their accounts to thai visa ? i dont think so.

giving voice to the irresponsible is neither productive nor admirable , and it is strange to see it allowed on a forum that seems to go to ever increasing lengths to control discussions of issues that might be deemed even slightly illegal and/or immoral.

[goonerone]

Thanks to all of you for your excellent comments and advice.

To give a little more detail - the debt is actually an overdraft which i ran up about 3 years ago of around 6,000 pounds. I was in a real fix at the time and it was the only way to survive.....I haven't been ordinarilly resident in UK for around 10 years now, if that has any relevance. I am not condone the debt, just can pay it!

once again many thanks everyone.

3 years ago I had and still do have a credit card bill for over 7000 pound 11 months ago I returned to the uK worked for 5 months got a new 1 year visa and returned to Thailand no problems debit collector are like TV licence people full of dog poo thake no notice and enjoy life Thailand

[JustinCredible]

Unless the UK law has changed since I came to Thailand, a debt to a Bank / Credit Card company / HP company is a Civil matter, UNLESS you took the loan and immediately defaulted on the repayments, when it would become FRAUD. As long as you made some regular payments it is CIVIL.

Assuming this to be the case, the Courts will not do anything other than issue a County Court Judgement against you, that will stay on record for 6 years.

The debt collector will NOT be able to get any other type of rulingfrom the Courts. Believe me, I know several people in Thailand (Brits.) whp have worked the Credit Cards, Defaulted Bank loans etc. and not had the slightest problem even when returning to the UK. The company is trying scare you. Tell them you have no money, you cannot repay them unless they reduce the debt by 75 per cent (they might even do that) and then accept 20 GBP per month. They will moan and make other noises for a while and then disappear.

Do not worry about them.

PS. It will not effect your Passport renewal either, unless it is proved as Fraud.

[Springman]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Don't give it another thought take it from an expert they are bluffing

[fvw53]

- as normal debts are civil law disputes in the UK, they have no influence on Thai decision making about visa because the Thai authorities are not interested except if you would have a visa such as Non Immigrant O to support Thai wife or child to be issued in a Thai Embassy or Consulate in the UK and based on proven income in the UK. If debt collector would contact Thai consular officer - which I doubt strongly - then the officer will have a harder look at your financial means from other sources than UK to support visa.

- Thai authorities will look at criminal offences - which include debts made in a fraudulous way - but then the evidence provided by debt collector or bank must be supported by UK criminal court ruling which has to be submitted through diplomatic channels to Thailand.

- one element you have to consider, if you have no asset or no income right now in the UK : may-be one day you will inherit or be entitled to a UK pension and be assured that the debt collector will know this and by that time your small debt may have increased exponentially because of all kind of interests and mainly penalties.

In this case you should consult a UK Consumer Action Group without delay otherwise the debt collector will continue to harrass you to avoid that their claim legally expires.

- if you expect later income in the UK you could for instance propose to the debt collector to pay every month 20 GBP as an initial show of good will and I am sure they will have to accept and then they cannot charge you the strangling penalties (nevertheless consult UK Consumer Action Group)

[maxisrael]

Pay your debts !!

Why fled to Thailand ? because criminals think they are safe here I hope they come and get you be a man and face it

[Tonyzill]

I have been in your situation although slightly different in that I had made arrangements in the UK. They have absolutely no jurisdiction in Thailand as many have pionted out it is Civil and as such they can do nothing.

Lawyers/Solicitors turned up at my appartment!!! One Thai one American from a law company in Bangkokthreatening me.

I had already seeked legal advice after a phone call from the company.

They advised me that they could nothing and if they persisted take an action against them for defermation of charactor which is quite a serious offence in Thailand.

On my advising them of this they went away and never came back.

Good Luck and you have absolutely no worries.

[imaneggspurt]

Pay your debts !!

Why fled to Thailand ? because criminals think they are safe here I hope they come and get you be a man and face it

Do you not think you are jumping to conclusions ?. he may have a genuine reason for not being able to repay,...either way, i doubt hes a criminal ,and they WONT come and get him for sure, grow up,.

[Tonyzill]

He isnt a criminal unless convicted!!! Innocent until proved guilty.

He has a debt, millions and millions of people have debts does that make us all criminals!!!!!!!!!!

[loonodingle]

50 Baht and all your problems are over.

CHANGE YOUR SIM!!!

Dont give your number to people who will pass it on. And forget about it M8. Forget all the posters who scare monger. 6K Ha its a drop in the ocean to what money is owed by alot of people here no doubt.

[maxman71]

With the globalization of the world's banking system, who knows what a bank in the UK (or anywhere else) can or cannot do to collect debt from a citizen living and working abroad.

As a practical matter, this guy's situation is not the first time I've encountered a farang with dirty laundry in his closet back home thinking they can ditch it and head to Thailand and be washed clean ala Lourdes. My USD 0.02 is if you aren't solvent and/or have your financial matters in good shape back home, just what the hel_l are you doing in Thailand??? There is no such thing as a "Free Lunch".

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

I have to agree with the other comments, 6k overdraft 3 years ago. I presume no assets in the UK. These Debt colecting agencies always try and put the 'frighteners' on outstanding debts. The original bank in question would have already effectively written the debt off as far as their books are concerned. Remember, these agencies get a cut of what they retrieve.

As for affecting you over here, I find it extremely unlikely they would pursue a debt for 6k from some guy in Thailand with no assets in the UK, when they could spend their time getting cash off one of the millions of people in debt on credit cards/loans etc who are in the UK and working!

£6k is absolute peanuts in the big scheme of things. The only downside is that a CCJ will probably be registered at your last known UK address that the company has registered for you, wich means if you go back to UK will be difficult to get credit for next 6 years.

With regards to this, if it was me, I would tell them that I have no money, can't pay them and tell them they can do what they want!

I think they would rather go after the easy target; Gaz the plumber from Essex who has run up £50k on credit cards! Take a charge on his house and wait for him to get back on his feet and then get the money back. Not some bloke 6000 miles away!

I have worked in financial services for 20 years+ in debt colection, lending, mortgages etc and have seen threats like this many times!

If you want to be completely above board, do as others say, declare yourself bankrupt in the UK and job done......get a few more loans before you do it though!

[rixalex]

"He has a debt, millions and millions of people have debts does that make us all criminals!!!!!!!!!!"

Millions do but millions don't decide they can't be bothered to pay them back - those that do have to accept the consequences.

If you willingly take on a debt and have no intention of paying it back, in my eyes yes you are a criminal.

If you fall on hard times and can't make a repayment / repayments then fair enough, but that doesn't mean to say you can't make repayments at a reduced level.

Are you telling me that the OP has had zero spare cash in all those years that have passed - that he couldn't even spare a few bob once in while just to appease the debt collectors and show willing?

Edited January 18, 2009 by rixalex

[Owain]

Are you telling me that the OP has had zero spare cash in all those years that have passed - that he couldn't even spare a few bob once in while just to appease the debt collectors and show willing?

He obviously had enough to fly and set himself up in Thailand. That could have gone towards paying off his debts.

[Peter Bysouth]

There is no such thing as " UK wide " jurisdiction for settling debt collection. Assuming your debt was incurred with a bank in England the County Court's jurisdiction is restricted to England and Wales only and would have no authority to send in the bailiffs in Scotland never mind Thailand.

The bank has evidently sold on the debt to a recovery agency which has no power to retrieve funds from you in Thailand and has ABSOLUTELY no standing with the Thai government or its departments.

You could however have some sport with the people hounding you by ringing them from time to time to inform them of your location, preferably while ensconced in your deck chair lolling on a beach somewhere in, say, Samui , inviting them to pop round and have a drink whenever they are free. Describing their women folk in zoological terms and casting doubt upon their parentage is always an added bonus.

Great fun, as is sending a postcard to the bank which contributed greatly to your financial affairs.

There is absolutely no dishonour in this and your gloating would not be amiss since the British banking institutions undoubtedly deserve every misfortune likely to befall them. What they have done to hundreds of thousands of innocent victims makes your error pale into utter insignificance.

There are no Bailiffs in Scotland only Sheriff's officers who can only Levy in the area of the court they are registered with and Messenger at arms however who can Levy distress all over Scotland. The messenger at arms have the most power. If you do not comply with the messenger at arms he will let his wand break and then he was supposed to fight to the death but now they call the police to arrest you.

[wrecker]

Highly unlikely. The court could revoke a passport, though that will not be easy when it is just a debt. It is not a criminal but a civil case after all. Luckily for you the police stays out of debt collection in civilized countries.

[misterman21]

To the OP just relax and take no heed of what the selfrightious w*nkers are posting. Untold millions in the UK owe substantialy more than your paltry 6k. The selfrightious twits dont realize that as they stand they are being ripped of big time by big government. In the Uk the Bank of England has just announced plans to print more fiat money without accountability - thus devaluing further the value of the pound in your pocket. (first time in history and sanctioned by the government)

[Nacho]

About 8 year ago I owned a condo and assumed my loan to another party. Now if they defaulted on the loan the bank was supposed to contact me to allow me to make the payments up and take back over mortgage. 5 years later I got a phone call from debt collecters telling me that I had a judgment against me from the loans insurance company $70,000. It seemed that they couldn't get ahold of me because I was away in Thailand, even though my mother had power of atturney for me and they had her phone number on file. She had said she had gotten some phone calls for me in the past (possibly from the mortgage company) but when telling them that I was away in Thailand and offering them my number here, they just said no thats ok and hung up the phone. I talked to a lawyer about it and he said it sucks but because a judgment had already been passed there was nothing I could do. It seemed funny to me how I had bought the condo straight from the builder for $210,000 and 5 years later when all the property in the city had almost doubled in price the bank could have let it go for around 40% less. The lawyer figured someone in the bank made some money out of that deal, while I was stuck with this $70,000 bill which I couldn't pay and had no intention of paying by the slyness of how the bank went about this. I went to a bankruptsy specialist considering claiming bankruptsy but was told I had to give a portion of my income for 15 months. Seeing that I owned property in another country and that I made too much money I was told that I would end up having to pay pretty much all of it back anyway. She did inform me though that since I was living in Thailand and made my money outside of my home country that I was probably just better off walking away from it, as long as I was sure I wouldn't need to return for work within the next 6 years, so that is what I did. So to any of you people on here defending the banks. They don't give a crap about screwing over anyone else, so I have no problem with the OP screwing them over, and would encourage it.

[thaileader]

You are home free and congratulations on screwing the bank

I am a retired boss of a UK Nationwide debt collecting company who

employs 65 collectors.

I am knowledgeable in all legal aspects pertaining to debt collecting in

all the member countries of the European community.

Kharzi is correct and has eased your mind.

I am now telling you your FREE and without any worries or concerns

Of course the collectors will write letters and phone you, saying all sorts

of nonsense, designed to cause you to pay up.

The banks are the biggest crooks, cheating and stealing, so its nice to see

a winner against them.

Please refer to yourself as ROBIN HOOD

[Naam]

To the OP just relax and take no heed of what the selfrightious w*nkers are posting. Untold millions in the UK owe substantialy more than your paltry 6k. The selfrightious twits dont realize that as they stand they are being ripped of big time by big government. In the Uk the Bank of England has just announced plans to print more fiat money without accountability - thus devaluing further the value of the pound in your pocket. (first time in history and sanctioned by the government)

that of course gives every UK citizen the right to take loans without intention or making an effort to pay back

[philcobkk]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

have you ever considered paying your debt? Nomral people pay their debts.

[misterman21]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

have you ever considered paying your debt? Nomral people pay their debts.

Define normal

[Owain]

In the Uk the Bank of England has just announced plans to print more fiat money without accountability - thus devaluing further the value of the pound in your pocket. (first time in history and sanctioned by the government)

They have not.

[john b good]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Next time that you go back to the UK you might find that they will not allow you to leave again.

Why don't you just pay and get it done with (if you are not contesting whether you actually do owe the money)

If you don't pay you are no different to all the others who run away from their responsibilities.

[aussimike]

They are just trying to scare you. Cancellation of a visa is a whole process and not for this kind of cases.

What they can do at most is get a UK court order to pay and ask a Thai judge to execute it in Thailand.

the typical bluff and scare technique -- works with some people = there is no way that the immigration dept here or let alone the courts here would even consider hearing a complaint like this - really not an extradition offence is it ??? as OP said the cancellation of a visa is a long drawn out process and even it by some amazing chance it did go to court here knowing the legal process here - would take years to hear your case even if they could find you -- i would just wish them luck if they call u again - and why not try to make some sort of repayment arrangements with your bank regarding your outstanding acct - as this would be a sign of good faith on your part = and u should consider that if ever you did return to the uk - and there is a judgement out on you maybe u would be picked up at the airport on your arrival - not a nice welcome home to the ole country - just a suggestion

[misterman21]

In the Uk the Bank of England has just announced plans to print more fiat money without accountability - thus devaluing further the value of the pound in your pocket. (first time in history and sanctioned by the government)

They have not.

Joe Murphy

Daily Mail

Wednesday, January 7, 2009

The Government may resort to printing extra money if interest rates keep falling.

It is being considered as a desperate measure if base rates fall so far that they cease to work as an economic lever.

Base rates are set to plunge tomorrow to the lowest level since the Bank of England was founded in 1694, with another big cut of at least half a point to 1.5 per cent or even lower.

Chancellor Alistair Darling and Bank of England governor Mervyn King are considering whether to embark on a new policy of expanding the money supply, or quantitative easing, sources today told the Evening Standard.

This is an old article - cant find the article stating BOEs decision to go ahead (WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AS TO HOW MUCH IS BEING PRINTED) I will post when i find article!

PS 'quantitative easing' is the key phrase!

Edited January 18, 2009 by misterman21

[Owain]

This is an old article - cant find the article stating BOEs decision to go ahead (WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AS TO HOW MUCH IS BEING PRINTED) I will post when i find article!

Save your time and energy. The Bank of England have not made any decision as of yet.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Owain

[misterman21]

This is an old article - cant find the article stating BOEs decision to go ahead (WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AS TO HOW MUCH IS BEING PRINTED) I will post when i find article!

Save your time and energy. The Bank of England have not made any decision as of yet.

So not to worry then We can all go back to sleep and let those nice people in the govenment and banks make everything better.

Snippet from Telegraph 12 Jan - ok not conclusive but the writing is on the wall.

The Government is set to throw out the 165-year old law that obliges the Bank to publish a weekly account of its balance sheet – a move that will allow it theoretically to embark covertly on so-called quantitative easing. The Banking Bill, which is currently passing through Parliament, abolishes a key section of the law laid down by Robert Peel's Government in 1844 which originally granted the Bank the sole right to print UK money.

Edited January 18, 2009 by misterman21