" Mad" Tourists Arrive In Phuket

[boris]

Boris, where is your sense of humour ??? But seriously if you make posts for the purpose of provoking a reaction, something to which you freely admit, then you have to expect some tongue in cheek remarks back...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I NEVER make posts purely to provoke a reaction.There is always an underlying serious intent depending on the context.Occasionally I tease but not on a subject like the tragedy in the South.

[boris]

Mak, Thanks for the excellent post from the South which echoes some of my friends own concerns.I remain incidentally hopeful however that Patong will be redeveloped in a more attractive mode, though this is a minor consideration at present.I am afraid there is an element on this forum which probably simply cannot comprehend how sickening some of the earlier messages appear.

In an interesting article in the Sunday Times today, Bryan Appleyard wrote, "Thailand (Sri Lanka,S.India) have become Western playgrounds,tropical paradises of palm trees,sun,sand and sex.They are the consumerised version of the romantic dream of the primitive life in nature.Will the spectacle of nature striking back with such savagery cause us to think again?Judging by the most shocking spectacle of the week-the ethically questionable types who continued floating on Lilos and sunbathing amid the dead and dying after the tsunami had struck -probably not"

In a sense the idiots Appleyard rightly descibes as ethically questionable are preferable to the minority of posters earlier in this thread because the former are driven mainly by stupidity and insensitivity as opposed to self serving hypocrisy of the latter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No matter how Phuket is redeveloped, the sex trade will still flourish. Where there are tourists there will be girls willing to provide services to them, it's a fact of life and seen all over the world.

The girls are a lot better off working in a bar as it gives them some protection, would you rather have them working off the street or under control of the local Mafia, because if the bars werent there, that is what would happen. The girls that work in trade are there by choice, forget the well worn comments about them being given no choice because of poverty....there are millions of girls who choose to work in factories etc all over Thailand. The Bar girls are there to make big money and for some, to meet a farang who will take them away to a new life.

What I dont get is these self righteous people with their holier than thou attitudes. Take off the rose coloured glasses and see the realities of life. Phuket has a tourist driven economy and all that comes with it, do you really believe that Phuket would survive with just dive shops and souvenier stores ??

Now who exactly is this Mr Appleyard and what is his expertise on the subject. As far as I can recall there was no one sunbathing or floating on lilos amid the dead and dying, his comments are pure sensationalism.

Life will go on there, and I am glad to see that the events has not scared people off from going there. After the Bali Bombings it took many months for the tourists to return and in that time the locals suffered greatly. Is that what you would like to see happen in Phuket ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems your main preoccupation is that the sex trade should continue in Phuket.That's your right but don't try and wrap your seedy concerns in some kind of highminded wrapping.Actually a resort can survive without a sex trade and there are many examples.Bryan Appleyard is one of the UK's most respected and leading journalists (google his name if anyone is interested).I do not think he was saying a small minority of tourists were swimming alongside corpses: he was making a metaphorical point.I suspect most people -although obviously not you-, with a grain of intelligence and sensitivity would understand that.understand that.

[chuchok]

Mak, Thanks for the excellent post from the South which echoes some of my friends own concerns.I remain incidentally hopeful however that Patong will be redeveloped in a more attractive mode, though this is a minor consideration at present.I am afraid there is an element on this forum which probably simply cannot comprehend how sickening some of the earlier messages appear.

In an interesting article in the Sunday Times today, Bryan Appleyard wrote, "Thailand (Sri Lanka,S.India) have become Western playgrounds,tropical paradises of palm trees,sun,sand and sex.They are the consumerised version of the romantic dream of the primitive life in nature.Will the spectacle of nature striking back with such savagery cause us to think again?Judging by the most shocking spectacle of the week-the ethically questionable types who continued floating on Lilos and sunbathing amid the dead and dying after the tsunami had struck -probably not"

In a sense the idiots Appleyard rightly descibes as ethically questionable are preferable to the minority of posters earlier in this thread because the former are driven mainly by stupidity and insensitivity as opposed to self serving hypocrisy of the latter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No matter how Phuket is redeveloped, the sex trade will still flourish. Where there are tourists there will be girls willing to provide services to them, it's a fact of life and seen all over the world.

The girls are a lot better off working in a bar as it gives them some protection, would you rather have them working off the street or under control of the local Mafia, because if the bars werent there, that is what would happen. The girls that work in trade are there by choice, forget the well worn comments about them being given no choice because of poverty....there are millions of girls who choose to work in factories etc all over Thailand. The Bar girls are there to make big money and for some, to meet a farang who will take them away to a new life.

What I dont get is these self righteous people with their holier than thou attitudes. Take off the rose coloured glasses and see the realities of life. Phuket has a tourist driven economy and all that comes with it, do you really believe that Phuket would survive with just dive shops and souvenier stores ??

Now who exactly is this Mr Appleyard and what is his expertise on the subject. As far as I can recall there was no one sunbathing or floating on lilos amid the dead and dying, his comments are pure sensationalism.

Life will go on there, and I am glad to see that the events has not scared people off from going there. After the Bali Bombings it took many months for the tourists to return and in that time the locals suffered greatly. Is that what you would like to see happen in Phuket ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems your main preoccupation is that the sex trade should continue in Phuket.That's your right but don't try and wrap your seedy concerns in some kind of highminded wrapping.Actually a resort can survive without a sex trade and there are many examples.Bryan Appleyard is one of the UK's most respected and leading journalists (google his name if anyone is interested).I do not think he was saying a small minority of tourists were swimming alongside corpses: he was making a metaphorical point.I suspect most people -although obviously not you-, with a grain of intelligence and sensitivity would understand that.understand that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What Mr Appleyard says is no consequence to me.Making a metaphorical point like he has is designed to shock and sell print.What typical journalistic crap.

Like it or not, custom is needed in Phuket. I would suggest that custom is needed just as much for the local vendors and workers as well as for your beloved farang bar owners.

[gburns57au]

Mak, Thanks for the excellent post from the South which echoes some of my friends own concerns.I remain incidentally hopeful however that Patong will be redeveloped in a more attractive mode, though this is a minor consideration at present.I am afraid there is an element on this forum which probably simply cannot comprehend how sickening some of the earlier messages appear.

In an interesting article in the Sunday Times today, Bryan Appleyard wrote, "Thailand (Sri Lanka,S.India) have become Western playgrounds,tropical paradises of palm trees,sun,sand and sex.They are the consumerised version of the romantic dream of the primitive life in nature.Will the spectacle of nature striking back with such savagery cause us to think again?Judging by the most shocking spectacle of the week-the ethically questionable types who continued floating on Lilos and sunbathing amid the dead and dying after the tsunami had struck -probably not"

In a sense the idiots Appleyard rightly descibes as ethically questionable are preferable to the minority of posters earlier in this thread because the former are driven mainly by stupidity and insensitivity as opposed to self serving hypocrisy of the latter.

No matter how Phuket is redeveloped, the sex trade will still flourish. Where there are tourists there will be girls willing to provide services to them, it's a fact of life and seen all over the world.

The girls are a lot better off working in a bar as it gives them some protection, would you rather have them working off the street or under control of the local Mafia, because if the bars werent there, that is what would happen. The girls that work in trade are there by choice, forget the well worn comments about them being given no choice because of poverty....there are millions of girls who choose to work in factories etc all over Thailand. The Bar girls are there to make big money and for some, to meet a farang who will take them away to a new life.

What I dont get is these self righteous people with their holier than thou attitudes. Take off the rose coloured glasses and see the realities of life. Phuket has a tourist driven economy and all that comes with it, do you really believe that Phuket would survive with just dive shops and souvenier stores ??

Now who exactly is this Mr Appleyard and what is his expertise on the subject. As far as I can recall there was no one sunbathing or floating on lilos amid the dead and dying, his comments are pure sensationalism.

Life will go on there, and I am glad to see that the events has not scared people off from going there. After the Bali Bombings it took many months for the tourists to return and in that time the locals suffered greatly. Is that what you would like to see happen in Phuket ??

It seems your main preoccupation is that the sex trade should continue in Phuket.That's your right but don't try and wrap your seedy concerns in some kind of highminded wrapping.Actually a resort can survive without a sex trade and there are many examples.Bryan Appleyard is one of the UK's most respected and leading journalists (google his name if anyone is interested).I do not think he was saying a small minority of tourists were swimming alongside corpses: he was making a metaphorical point.I suspect most people -although obviously not you-, with a grain of intelligence and sensitivity would understand that.understand that.

Quote....Judging by the most shocking spectacle of the week-the ethically questionable types who continued floating on Lilos and sunbathing amid the dead and dying after the tsunami had struck....unquote

I read what I see.....there was no mention of metaphorics....he made a statement and I answered it, sorry if you dont agree. He was merely being sensationalist, after all he is a journo and truth doesnt always make good selling copy.

Quote....It seems your main preoccupation is that the sex trade should continue in Phuket.That's your right but don't try and wrap your seedy concerns in some kind of highminded wrapping....unquote

Not at all, I was merely citing an unquestionable fact. You can go to resorts and not see a sex trade but it is there if you look....even KL, a Muslim capital has a sex trade running. It doesnt worry me if Phuket has a sex trade or not, but it did and will have, nothing we can do will stop that...accept it or not....Thailand does have a lot of natural beauty I have seen a lot of it, so I am not just a bar fly at a tourist resort...I have spent a lot of time in rural Thailand and have a lot of respect for the Thai people. I just dont have a puritan view of life, so shoot me.

Quote....Bryan Appleyard is one of the UK's most respected and leading journalists (google his name if anyone is interested).....unquote

Well thats in the UK...what is his expertise on SE Asia. Never heard of him to be truthful, so he must be good.

Quote...I suspect most people -although obviously not you-, with a grain of intelligence and sensitivity would understand that.....unquote

Now you want to make it personal....usually the last bastion of people who have nowhere else to go....

[boris]

As I had expected my quote from Bryan Appleyard excited the apologists for the Patong Beach (lets be specific) sex trade like a pack of soi dogs.Much is made of their concern for local vendors and local economic interests, but it does not require much insight to deduce their sex tourist agenda.Bryan Appleyard has an international reputation and is the last person to seek sensationalism or indulge in dishonest or cheap journalism.The general point he was making was very clear, that it is ethically dubious for foreign tourists -whether in Thailand or elsewhere- to revert to normal in or near the very location where the bodies have only recently been removed.Most Thais I have spoken to feel the same, and a quiet disgust for people who can be so insensitive.Of course time moves on and it is a matter of reasonable discussion when tourism should resume:I hope very soon.

[gburns57au]

As I had expected my quote from Bryan Appleyard excited the apologists for the Patong Beach (lets be specific) sex trade like a pack of soi dogs.Much is made of their concern for local vendors and local economic interests, but it does not require much insight to deduce their sex tourist agenda.Bryan Appleyard has an international reputation and is the last person to seek sensationalism or indulge in dishonest or cheap journalism.The general point he was making was very clear, that it is ethically dubious for foreign tourists -whether in Thailand or elsewhere- to revert to normal in or near the very location where the bodies have only recently been removed.Most Thais I have spoken to feel the same, and a quiet disgust for people who can be so insensitive.Of course time moves on and it is a matter of reasonable discussion when tourism should resume:I hope very soon.

Boris...you are full of it....you really dont have a clue.

[LivinLOS]

As I had expected my quote from Bryan Appleyard excited the apologists for the Patong Beach (lets be specific) sex trade like a pack of soi dogs.Much is made of their concern for local vendors and local economic interests, but it does not require much insight to deduce their sex tourist agenda.Bryan Appleyard has an international reputation and is the last person to seek sensationalism or indulge in dishonest or cheap journalism.The general point he was making was very clear, that it is ethically dubious for foreign tourists -whether in Thailand or elsewhere- to revert to normal in or near the very location where the bodies have only recently been removed.Most Thais I have spoken to feel the same, and a quiet disgust for people who can be so insensitive.Of course time moves on and it is a matter of reasonable discussion when tourism should resume:I hope very soon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most Thais (and Farangs) that have any stake in Phuket (especially Patong) that I have dealt with are desperate for tourists to keep coming.. They have been vocal in posting, emailing, and campaigning about this fact.

The reality is this terrible situation will cause massive economic harm to the local economy. It came right at the beggining of high season when so many had either 'just got by' or lost money for the bulk of the year banking on making thier profits in the next couple of months. This does not only apply to just bar owners or the sex trade / nightlife aspect on Phuket or Patong but the knock on effect of the imported tourist dollar (Euro / etc) dissapearing will hit all strata of the local economy.

Already we have disco's closing and sacking all thier staff.. We have dive operations closing and sending divers packing.. If a certain critical mass or level is reached where the knock on effects become too great short term economic collapse is a very real possibility.

I personally dont see this as a long term effect (very tough 2 - 3 months followed by a bad low season and probably near full recovery by next high season) but how many living either hand to mouth or who have sustained large financial losses in the disaster can afford to get through to the next year.

[chuchok]

As I had expected my quote from Bryan Appleyard excited the apologists for the Patong Beach (lets be specific) sex trade like a pack of soi dogs.

Pity your mate Bryan cannot just report the facts.

Most Thais I have spoken to feel the same

I bet the Thais you have been talking to don't run a breakfast cafe in Patong?

[kasi]

I just love the evangelists who come along and want to "clean up" Patong as if it were some dirty place.

Patong beach and Bangla rd in particular are just mirrors to ones soul.

If all you see is dirt and dissolution perhaps the "clean up" job should start somewhere else!

Good Day

[boris]

Since the responses make my point better than I ever could whether a touching concern for the Patong local vendors (chuchok) or confused quasi philosophical musings (kasi).

By the way you don't win an argument by saying someone is "full of it".In fact if that is your considered response, you have lost the argument.Anyway there are more important things to do and think about and I will leave the soi dogs to foam and bark in my absence.

[LivinLOS]

My post not interest your trolling then boris ??

[boris]

My post not interest your trolling then boris ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really since it wasn't silly (nor frankly very interesting!).But since you ask I will make an exception to my vow not to comment further on this thread.Contrary to what some might think I have no particular objection to a fun nightlife at Patong or elsewhere.It is already reviving and I think the damage to this part of the local economy will be limited.I dispute your contention I was trolling but admit I will hit hard at hypocrisy where I find it, in this instance scumbag farangs -whether barowners or sextourists- weeping crocodile tears for the "local economy" when their motives are very different.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

In the last 48 hours, the number of posts on these two forums has fallen dramatically. Almost time to close this show down. (Keeping the 'Pinned Topics' though).

[kasi]

I will hit hard at hypocrisy where I find it, in this instance scumbag farangs -whether barowners or sextourists- weeping crocodile tears for the "local economy" when their motives are very different

Hypocrisy is the operational word here. Boris I'm glad you won't have to research the meaning.(or will you?)

cheers

BTW: Guys this is what a quote should look like!

Edited January 7, 2005 by kasi

[gburns57au]

My post not interest your trolling then boris ??

Not really since it wasn't silly (nor frankly very interesting!).But since you ask I will make an exception to my vow not to comment further on this thread.Contrary to what some might think I have no particular objection to a fun nightlife at Patong or elsewhere.It is already reviving and I think the damage to this part of the local economy will be limited.I dispute your contention I was trolling but admit I will hit hard at hypocrisy where I find it, in this instance scumbag farangs -whether barowners or sextourists- weeping crocodile tears for the "local economy" when their motives are very different.

Boris, you dont have a clue as to my motives, do you ???

I dont go to Phuket, so if it stays as a sex tourism venue is of no concern to me...what is of concern to me is what happened in Bali where the locals suffered because of loss of revenue from tourism after the blasts. I wouldnt like to see the same thing happen to the Thai people. All I have done is to state that where there are resorts there is a sex industry whether in Thailand or anywhere else, this industry, like it or not, contributes to the local economy. It puts food in mouths and kids in schools, and for some girls, it gets them a better life. Is that such a bad thing ???

[Boon Mee]

I will leave the soi dogs to foam and bark in my absence.

Does this mean we don't have to suffer this fool no more?