Official Thailand Death Toll Rises To Over 2,300

[george]

Official death toll from Sunday's tsunami rises to over 2,300

BANGKOK: -- The official death toll from Sunday's tsunami disaster in Thailand has risen to 2,394 this evening, but with corpses still being pulled in, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra forecast that the final death toll could hit 6,800.

According to the Department for Disaster Prevention and Mitigation, the official death count at 18.00hrs this evening stood at 2,394, of whom 1,488 were Thais, 710 were foreigners, and 196 were still unidentified.

Of the 9,810 injured, 4,957 were Thai, 1,497 foreigners and 3,356 not stated.

However, 6,130 people are still missing, and the prime minister was quoted in news reports this morning as saying that the final toll could be as high as 6,800.

As corpses continued to rot today, the government made an urgent appeal for more body bags, Wellington boots, surgical masks, rubber gloves and refrigerated containers in which to place the bodies.

--TNA 2004-12-30

[Dario]

Figures are changing constantly. A Thai minister just said in an interview on ITV that in Phanga province alone more than 4,000 dead bodies had been discovered.

[IsaanAlex]

The Thai government are lying dogs, with Toxin being the chief dog.

We know already that there are masses and masses dead and the event has been widely underestimated; I believe possibly in error by many, but not by Toxin.

How about the reports that indicate that Toxin knew of the tsunami risk but directed that no warnings be given, lest they lose tourist dollars..if it failed to materialise...

IA

[Richard W]

How about the reports that indicate that Toxin knew of the tsunami risk but directed that no warnings be given, lest they lose tourist dollars..if it failed to materialise...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the rule of law applied in Thailand, would there be enough evidence for the overseas insurance companies and pension funds to sue him or the government for negligence? Even if he were only 30% to blame for the deaths, it could be worth their while. As it is, I haven't heard of any formal complaints of manslaughter being laid against him. The manslaughter of Khun Phumi Jensen would be a good specimen charge.

[Tornado]

As corpses continued to rot today, the government made an urgent appeal for more body bags, Wellington boots, surgical masks, rubber gloves and refrigerated containers in which to place the bodies.

This is an oversight, the request should of been made within the first few hours after the Tsunami. I asked on this forum two days ago for help in sending refrigeration. I am not laying blame, it just shows how shocked people are in times of crisis.

Many of the bodies will be cremated without being identified.

Edited December 30, 2004 by Tornado

[onethailand]

The Thai government are lying dogs, with Toxin being the chief dog.

We know already that there are masses and masses dead and the event has been widely underestimated; I believe possibly in error by many, but not by Toxin.

One cannot give an accurate report of deaths without recovering the actual bodies. It's quite clear to everyone that the death toll is going to rise dramatically - not even the PM can possibly hide that fact - he has absolutely zero to gain by trying to cover up something which is simply impossible to hide, with thousands of media, search and rescue teams, doctors, nurses, etc... you think he can possibly find everyone to buy them off?

[george]

ITALY: Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi called for an emergency meeting of the Group of Eight so that the rich nations club could discuss aid and possible debt reduction following "the worst cataclysm of the modern era".

The total toll had shot up more than 50 percent in a day with still no clear picture of conditions in some isolated islands and villages around India and Indonesia.

While villagers and fishermen suffered devastation, losses among foreign tourists, essential to local economies, mounted.

SWEDEN: Prime Minister Goran Persson said more than 1,000 Swedes may have been killed in the disaster.

[meom]

How about the reports that indicate that Toxin knew of the tsunami risk but directed that no warnings be given, lest they lose tourist dollars..if it failed to materialise...

If the rule of law applied in Thailand, would there be enough evidence for the overseas insurance companies and pension funds to sue him or the government for negligence? Even if he were only 30% to blame for the deaths, it could be worth their while. As it is, I haven't heard of any formal complaints of manslaughter being laid against him. The manslaughter of Khun Phumi Jensen would be a good specimen charge.

Toxin did not create the disaster so why blame him? Why blame anyone; it's an act of nature so the only one who can be blamed would be god if there is a god. Even if there had been a warning I doubt if everybody would've run for cover leaving home and belongings behind for potential looters. Most people underestimate the force of water and probably would've thought they could face it same as they face monsoon rains etc.

[IsaanAlex]

One cannot give an accurate report of deaths without recovering the actual bodies. It's quite clear to everyone that the death toll is going to rise dramatically

True, but leave it up to Toxim to lowball. For example, there is a post above that suggests already 4000 dead, a figure well above what the top-level government reports.

Actually, here it is;

Dario wrote;

Figures are changing constantly. A Thai minister just said in an interview on ITV that in Phanga province alone more than 4,000 dead bodies had been discovered.

There are also reports that suggest that there are 1,000 Germans alone that are still missing.

Also, there was a print or media reporter who was on-site who has already sugested that the Thai government is intentionally lying.

The official government figures don't add up; and the abscence of bodies may help minimise the total death toll; Toxin wouldn't want to cop to deaths that can't be confirmed I'm sure; and almost certainly all of the bodies won't be found.

- not even the PM can possibly hide that fact

Wanna bet that he'd try, whether he has a chance of pulling it off or not?

*2500+ 'drug dealers that 'weren't' killed by government and subcontracted government hitmen.

*Avian flu...

*Muslims in the South killed under questionable circumstances.

*The wholesale purchasing of votes in Isaan (my village even).

s absolutely zero to gain by trying to cover up something which is simply impossible to hide, with thousands of media, search and rescue teams, doctors, nurses, etc... you think he can possibly find everyone to buy them off?

Again, do you really expect he'd not try to minimise deaths?

The less deaths the better for the tourist industry and the less draths the less culpable he is for not warning of the tsunami-(and yes, apparently they had an idea there may have been a risk...,that they chose to ignore for profit...

Toxin did not create the disaster so why blame him? Why blame anyone

A directive was put out that there should be no warnings because the tourist industry would suffer if nothing materialised.

This fact has already been established.

Read Below;

................................................................................

.....................................

"Warning rejected to protect tourism

Published on December 28, 2004

Minutes after the earthquake hit northern Sumatra at 7.58am on Sunday, officials of the Meteo-rological Department, who were at a seminar in Cha-am, convened an emergency meeting chaired by Supharerk Tansrirat-tanawong, director-general.

They had just learned that the Bangkok office had reported a quake measuring at 8.1 on the Richter scale, which was much lower than the

level officially recorded later.

“We didn’t think there would be subsequent seismic waves, because a similar quake of 7.6 on the Richter scale, which hit Sumatra on November 2, 2002, did not affect Thailand,” said a member of the department who asked not to be named.

Moreover, the quake this time hit west of Sumatra and officials thought the island might offer a natural shelter, preventing any waves from breaking towards Phuket and its vicinity, he said.

With slightly less than one hour before the waves came ashore, Supharerk said, the department officials did not expect a tsunami. There are just four people on the department’s 900-person staff who are earthquake experts, he said. Also, a tsunami had not hit Thailand in more than 300 years.

But sources said they did discuss the likelihood that a tsunami could hit Thailand’s Andaman Sea coastal towns. This was also played down.

“The very important factor in making the decision was that it’s high [tourist] season and hotel rooms were nearly 100-per-cent full. If we issued a warning, which would have led to evacuation, [and if nothing happened], what would happen then? Business would be instantaneously affected. It would be beyond the Meteorological Department’s ability to handle. We could go under, if [the tsunami] didn’t come,” said a source who attended the meeting.

“We hesitated for a while whether we should issue a warning or not. It was discussed but we didn’t have a chance to do it.”

Supharerk denied that tourism factored into the discussion at the 11th hour. “I think we have done our best,” he said.

Precisely at 9am that Sunday, waves as high as 3 to 10 metres hit the main southern coastal provinces of Phuket, Phang Nga, Krabi and Ranong.

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

................................................................................

......................................

This happened on Toxins watch.

If he can oversee the wholesale corruption of the electoral process, he could have got his shit together to protect tourists.

IA

Edited December 30, 2004 by IsaanAlex

[Dr. Seuss]

I'm with IA. To say that it was an act of nature is true but we can avoid acts of nature, sometimes. The earthquake could not be forseen but the waves could.

To say we should not blame anyone is to say the same for drunk drivers who kill. should we think "oh! well. Who could have known?".

I for one believe Thaksin is the type able to push facts to one side and just hope for the best. I think it is unfair to use Khun Phumi as a benchmark of Thaksins dignity, i doubt very much he knew the guest list at every resort.

Thailand is the most developed of all the nations hit, if any country was or was able to be warned, it was Thailand.

An open letter to Thaksin may be in order.

[meom]

Maybe you're right although personally I don't believe in this blame game.

In the end you can blame whoever you want but blame always comes after the fact and doesn't really help to solve immediate problems.

[onethailand]

Notice that in that article, Thaksin was never mentioned.

I happen to know the writer of the article - he is a well-respected journalist who will not hesitate to criticize the government, and he is something of an expert on social issues. I am flying out of town tomorrow but on my return, I will ask him to provide me whatever information he has on that particular article.

In my opinion, however, the Meterological Department must take the blame for their hesitation. Thaksin cannot be blamed for a tsunami which happened to strike while he was PM. It is debatable whether he was even contacted.

[IsaanAlex]

I believe in the blame game.

If some of these people took the fall a long time ago (maybe a few generations ago, in a general sense, to get the idea of taking responsibility firmly entrenched in Thai culture) maybe there wouldn't be so many dead people right now.

Hoiw about the losers at the Thai Meteo-rological Department;

“We hesitated for a while whether we should issue a warning or not. It was discussed but we didn’t have a chance to do it.”

A bunch of &lt;deleted&gt; liars. They had a full hour.

Supharerk denied that tourism factored into the discussion at the 11th hour.

...

Liar.

These fags can't even keep their lies straight.

[no offense to fags, BTW]

...“I think we have done our best,” he said.

Yes. You probably have.

This is the calibre of individual that country's who refuse to take part in the 'blame game' produce.

IA

Edited December 30, 2004 by IsaanAlex

[Richard W]

How about the reports that indicate that Toxin knew of the tsunami risk but directed that no warnings be given, lest they lose tourist dollars..if it failed to materialise...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Toxin did not create the disaster so why blame him? Why blame anyone; it's an act of nature so the only one who can be blamed would be god if there is a god.

Unless it were a sign of divine displeasure with Thaksin's doings!

Even if there had been a warning I doubt if everybody would've run for cover leaving home and belongings behind for potential looters. Most people underestimate the force of water and probably would've thought they could face it same as they face monsoon rains etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is why I suggested 30% blame. There were probably also people who could not have been saved - not everyone was near high ground.

I think it is unfair to use Khun Phumi as a benchmark of Thaksins dignity, i doubt very much he knew the guest list at every resort.

Thailand is the most developed of all the nations hit, if any country was or was able to be warned, it was Thailand.

An open letter to Thaksin may be in order.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many seem to hold many Thai lives cheap; Khun Phumi's was one life that should not be held cheap by any.

In a sense Pol. Lt-Colonel Anantachai has already written that letter in the Nation - see Thai Experts Got the Warning Hours Before.

[Dr. Seuss]

Two things. In regards to Thaksin, the Buck has to stop somewhere, he is the boss.

Secondly, I presume, but dont know for a fact, the Meterological department is a government body. If it could be shown that Thaksin had pressured them to overlook anything but a 'dead cert' then maybe some of you would prefer the blame game to the standard thai shrug of innocence.

IA! your valid point may be undermined by "&lt;deleted&gt; and fags"

[lukamar]

A note in regard to the reporting of number of dead by the Thai Government agencies.

I'm sure most of you have dealt with the Thai government be it at the national or at the Amphoe level. They are slow and meticulous in what they do. It's the Thai way, they have done it that way for 1000 years.

They probably do not count the deceased as casualties until they have done the photo DNA part and thus they only release as "casualty numbers" those they have actually counted, not the number of bodies recovered.

As for blame. Worry about that later, now is the time to support the Thai survivors they can't get on a plane and go home.

[Anon999]

There's lots of talk about blame for the scale of the disaster but this is not the time for it.

All efforts now would be better directed at helping to solve the short term problems. No matter how little each individual is able to do.

After all the emotions have settled down and with proper examination of all the information that was availble beforehand then blame should be apportioned. The press, radio and TV will have more time to report it and those deemed responsible should be brought to account. Whoever it was, no matter. Just hit all of them with the full force of the law for mass murder.

Maybe someone who is on the spot could come up with some ideas on how to organise something on behalf of all the relatives and friends who have lost loved ones.

A concerted effort is much more effectrive than individual voices in the wilderness which is what may well happen if everyone is left to their own devices.

[udon]

ABC Radio are now quoting 120,000 dead , all areas.

No organisation can cope with that.........!

My thoughts are with those who survived and who lost friends and loved ones, everywhere.

--------------

I wonder how many Thai MPs and senators rushed to help in the 1st 48 hours.

Nothing but good reports here about Thai people and the way they helped everyone.

Thais should feel very proud of themselves.... not the useless Thai gov't!

'nuff said.

[mandl]

For those of you who want to play the blame game, pro or con, we have already closed one thread on this subject. Take your arguments to the General Forum or, better yet to the Bear Pit.

Let's keep this section for those who want to help and provide information for the victims of this disaster.

mandl

[udon]

Hi Mandy,

1) What qualifications do you have to tell me what I can write or not write?

2) Are you now a censor and not a moderator?

Edited December 30, 2004 by udon

[mandl]

Hi Mandy,

1) What qualifications do you have to tell me what I can write or not write?

2) Are you now a censor and not a moderator?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, my post wasn't directed at you. A couple of posts, including yours, got in before mine did. I was addressing those prior posters who were only discussing the blame for this tragedy and were off-topic.

mandl

[mrvietnam2001]

The Thai government are lying dogs, with Toxin being the chief dog.IA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All governments are lying dogs.

Mr Vietnam

[IsaanAlex]

IA! your valid point may be undermined by "&lt;deleted&gt; and fags"

Ah, my apologies.

I'm relatively new to the board so it definitely might be taken the wrong way; no offense intended really.

But I do feel I have a valid point.

I was addressing those prior posters who were only discussing the blame for this tragedy and were off-topic.

mandl

Pleeease. If you're referring to my posts, they are hardly off-topic. Unless the purpose of the thread was simply to tabulate the dead.

Let everyone discuss who is to blame; unless we want a repeat in one of it's varied forms the blame should be laid at someones feet-providing they're derserving of it.

For those of you who want to play the blame game, pro or con, we have already closed one thread on this subject. Take your arguments to the General Forum or, better yet to the Bear Pit.

And one question; have you contributed more to the thread than someone who posts a story showing that the Thai government had prior warning of an event of great concern, and a chance to warn people,...but didn't?

There may be a time and a place for everything but don't know that you're the one to decide that time or place for others..aside from being a 'super mod'..

IA

Edited December 30, 2004 by IsaanAlex

[Darknight]

There may be a time and a place for everything but don't know that you're the one to decide that time or place for others

And You're not the one who's gonna lay the blame HERE.

Told you before.

/ Warning Level Raised

Edited December 30, 2004 by Darknight

[Darknight]

Discussion about current topic will not include political intrest, Blame , or any other form of political Comment.

Revert to the Bearpit for you comments.

www.bearpit.net

This is not the time or the place, nor do people searching for loved ones want to hear you guys bickering.

Thanks For your Cooperation.

[Richard W]

For those of you who want to play the blame game, pro or con, we have already closed one thread on this subject. Take your arguments to the General Forum or, better yet to the Bear Pit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've started the thread Status of Tsunami Deaths - Manslaughter, Negligence or Misadventure to discuss the legal and moral issues relating to blame. I suspect quite a few overseas coroners will be asked to investigate them.

[krogarn]

there are some blame oon the goverment . BUT nobody can forecast a disaster like this. As in Sweden they are all blaming the the goverment as thay don´t know what thay do. I as i say thay are doinhg what thay can and send transsport planes and have medical persons in place . I WHAT EVER WANT TO BE IN PATTAYA.

Let them take some time bec thay need IT

[usatrader]

My two cents:

In looking at this humbling event, I can not help but reflect on how petty and mundane the issues of the day and in my life where and are in comparison.

As to the political overtures, for the few here who can actually vote, there will be an excellent forum of opinion on that subject conducted in February 2005.

It is indeed amazing to see how pervasive cynicism is and how it seeks to see the worst in all things.

That is all!

[ray23]

Ok hindsight is 20/20. Out of curosity what suggestion would one have now to implement this warning. At the time as I understand it there really wasn't a monitoring system in place for a tidal wave. were the scientist in thier discusion speaking of a possibilty. not a fact?

Additionally were there any warniing systems in the beach communities, not just the resort areas but the villages?

What would have been the reaction of those on the beach, that could have been informed, individually. Would they have repsonded or would they have thought the cry wolf syndrom was being activated?

I can assure everyone that more then one person will answer for this. I hope that is not a witch hunt where the person is guilty before the facts are reviewed and conclusions are met after sober deliberation.

System administrator, maybe a different thred would be more appropriate for these thoughts, plaese feel free if that is the case. I certainly don't feel comfortable with these thoughts on this thread

[csmith]

I'm not sure what contributors hope to achieve by all the "Thaksin-bashing" ?

But the reason for this posting is to raise awareness of an excellent website that can help keep us informed on this subject ..... or on any other natural disasters in the future.

Reuters AlertNet : http://www.alertnet.org/

Chris