Concerned...

[aussiejosh]

Aside from the family and friends of the victims it seems that the whole tragedy of zantika is already being forgotten...

I went to high school in Thailand and have recently returned hoping to work here but currently enjoying a vacation and I love Thailand. The last couple of years Zantika was the place to go for my friends and I on a Friday or Saturday night(yes at the time we were all underage), in fact we were going to go on new years as it was the last night but luckily decided to go with a larger group to Narz. After the fire I realized how much danger I was in each time I went there for fun, without even being slightly aware of it. Now I am going to places and only seeing the lack of safety (narcissist is deathtrap, that main dance floor; which i have seen with easily 200+ people on it, has a fence around it with a two narrow entrances both up several stairs....) After the fire I was hoping to see some changes that would restore my personal confidence in safety here for when I am out having fun but now it seems to be becoming an issue of the past already. I am concerned with the lack of follow ups or investigations into the current laws or maybe I am just poorly informed I am not sure, hence posting.

It is all well and good prosecuting those responsible for the tragedy but I would like to see more about safety laws and actually making businesses compliant.

Anyone able to alleviate my concerns? Or have an opinion on what they think will happen or not happen as a result of this tragedy?

[bkkjames]

Aside from the family and friends of the victims it seems that the whole tragedy of zantika is already being forgotten...

I went to high school in Thailand and have recently returned hoping to work here but currently enjoying a vacation and I love Thailand. The last couple of years Zantika was the place to go for my friends and I on a Friday or Saturday night(yes at the time we were all underage), in fact we were going to go on new years as it was the last night but luckily decided to go with a larger group to Narz. After the fire I realized how much danger I was in each time I went there for fun, without even being slightly aware of it. Now I am going to places and only seeing the lack of safety (narcissist is deathtrap, that main dance floor; which i have seen with easily 200+ people on it, has a fence around it with a two narrow entrances both up several stairs....) After the fire I was hoping to see some changes that would restore my personal confidence in safety here for when I am out having fun but now it seems to be becoming an issue of the past already. I am concerned with the lack of follow ups or investigations into the current laws or maybe I am just poorly informed I am not sure, hence posting.

It is all well and good prosecuting those responsible for the tragedy but I would like to see more about safety laws and actually making businesses compliant.

Anyone able to alleviate my concerns? Or have an opinion on what they think will happen or not happen as a result of this tragedy?

well, in the BED topic in the Bangkok page, someone did mention that they were undertaking steps to ensure everything was up to standard. No doubt other well known establishments are following suit.

[wxpwzrd]

Aside from the family and friends of the victims it seems that the whole tragedy of zantika is already being forgotten...

<SNIP>

Anyone able to alleviate my concerns? Or have an opinion on what they think will happen or not happen as a result of this tragedy?

Greed, loopholes and cash will keep the owners and those responsible from being prosecuted...

Greed, loopholes and cash will allow others to continue to sacrifice safety in favor of a fast buck.

[aussiejosh]

Greed, loopholes and cash will keep the owners and those responsible from being prosecuted...

Greed, loopholes and cash will allow others to continue to sacrifice safety in favor of a fast buck.

But times are changing, I was hoping perhaps that if anything this might act as a catalyst for the change necessary to see safer entertainment venues..

Glad to hear about Bed, hopefully other clubs will follow suit and I can tell you I will make sure to frequent them more as a result.

[bkkjames]

Greed, loopholes and cash will keep the owners and those responsible from being prosecuted...

Greed, loopholes and cash will allow others to continue to sacrifice safety in favor of a fast buck.

But times are changing, I was hoping perhaps that if anything this might act as a catalyst for the change necessary to see safer entertainment venues..

Glad to hear about Bed, hopefully other clubs will follow suit and I can tell you I will make sure to frequent them more as a result.

now if we can only get the taxis to stop catching fire and blowing up.

[Scott]

I thought I read somewhere that some of the victims (or families) were suing the owners.

[aussiejosh]

Yes they are, but I was talking more about people calling for changes in the laws and stricter inspections and regulations.

[tb86]

Arrest warrants are being issued for three involved and one investor

Edited January 22, 2009 by tb86

[t.s]

well, in the BED topic in the Bangkok page, someone did mention that they were undertaking steps to ensure everything was up to standard. No doubt other well known establishments are following suit.

that was me, and the entire staff undergoing training with the fire department on sunday afternoon.

[aussiejosh]

well, in the BED topic in the Bangkok page, someone did mention that they were undertaking steps to ensure everything was up to standard. No doubt other well known establishments are following suit.

that was me, and the entire staff undergoing training with the fire department on sunday afternoon.

Thats good to know. As I said I will make sure I reward them with my money

[john b good]

Aside from the family and friends of the victims it seems that the whole tragedy of zantika is already being forgotten...

I went to high school in Thailand and have recently returned hoping to work here but currently enjoying a vacation and I love Thailand. The last couple of years Zantika was the place to go for my friends and I on a Friday or Saturday night(yes at the time we were all underage), in fact we were going to go on new years as it was the last night but luckily decided to go with a larger group to Narz. After the fire I realized how much danger I was in each time I went there for fun, without even being slightly aware of it. Now I am going to places and only seeing the lack of safety (narcissist is deathtrap, that main dance floor; which i have seen with easily 200+ people on it, has a fence around it with a two narrow entrances both up several stairs....) After the fire I was hoping to see some changes that would restore my personal confidence in safety here for when I am out having fun but now it seems to be becoming an issue of the past already. I am concerned with the lack of follow ups or investigations into the current laws or maybe I am just poorly informed I am not sure, hence posting.

It is all well and good prosecuting those responsible for the tragedy but I would like to see more about safety laws and actually making businesses compliant.

Anyone able to alleviate my concerns? Or have an opinion on what they think will happen or not happen as a result of this tragedy?

I am surprised that it has taken so long (to be forgotten)

Things might (big might) improve in the short term but in the longer term it will go back to the same old, same old way that things get done (have always gotten done) here in Thailand.

Proprietors of places of entertainment, hotels, theatres, malls, etc., etc., are only motivated by one thing and one thing only, and that is money.

[PhilHarries]

I am afraid that the only way change in attitudes to safety in Thailand will come about is if WE, the customers, start taking a more than passing interest in OUR personal safety. Then if WE, the customers, start complaining to the management of the venues, the authorities and ultimately the press someone MAY start taking the issue seriously. But ultimately it is down to US to individually assess each and every place we go for whatever purpose be it pleasure or business and if WE are not happy with it then vote with OUR feet.

On the last project there was a sticker on the washroom mirrors that said "The person you are looking at is responsible for safety". That is something we should keep in mind at all times. It is all very well blaming the owners, the licensing authority, the police et al but if we ALL gave safety top priority, and were/are prepared to pay a little more for it, then things would gradually change.

Of course there will always be those that will visit XYZ club because the cover charge is 50 Baht less and the drinks cheaper than ABC without regard for any other issues. But they are the people who entrust their safety to others and in Thailand that is a dangerous thing to do.

A question for you: When did you ever read and digest the fire escape directions on the back of your hotel door?

As for the OP's concern that nothing has changed, I would be very surprised if anything changes over and above a few cosmetic alterations.

[aussiejosh]

Aside from the family and friends of the victims it seems that the whole tragedy of zantika is already being forgotten...

I went to high school in Thailand and have recently returned hoping to work here but currently enjoying a vacation and I love Thailand. The last couple of years Zantika was the place to go for my friends and I on a Friday or Saturday night(yes at the time we were all underage), in fact we were going to go on new years as it was the last night but luckily decided to go with a larger group to Narz. After the fire I realized how much danger I was in each time I went there for fun, without even being slightly aware of it. Now I am going to places and only seeing the lack of safety (narcissist is deathtrap, that main dance floor; which i have seen with easily 200+ people on it, has a fence around it with a two narrow entrances both up several stairs....) After the fire I was hoping to see some changes that would restore my personal confidence in safety here for when I am out having fun but now it seems to be becoming an issue of the past already. I am concerned with the lack of follow ups or investigations into the current laws or maybe I am just poorly informed I am not sure, hence posting.

It is all well and good prosecuting those responsible for the tragedy but I would like to see more about safety laws and actually making businesses compliant.

Anyone able to alleviate my concerns? Or have an opinion on what they think will happen or not happen as a result of this tragedy?

I am surprised that it has taken so long (to be forgotten)

Things might (big might) improve in the short term but in the longer term it will go back to the same old, same old way that things get done (have always gotten done) here in Thailand.

Proprietors of places of entertainment, hotels, theatres, malls, etc., etc., are only motivated by one thing and one thing only, and that is money.

Thats why I am going to frequent bed more, reward owners doing the right thing. It could be a idea for someone to set up a service which promotes venues that meet these standards or some way of finding out which venues have put in these extra precautions and efforts.

[bkkjames]

Aside from the family and friends of the victims it seems that the whole tragedy of zantika is already being forgotten...

I went to high school in Thailand and have recently returned hoping to work here but currently enjoying a vacation and I love Thailand. The last couple of years Zantika was the place to go for my friends and I on a Friday or Saturday night(yes at the time we were all underage), in fact we were going to go on new years as it was the last night but luckily decided to go with a larger group to Narz. After the fire I realized how much danger I was in each time I went there for fun, without even being slightly aware of it. Now I am going to places and only seeing the lack of safety (narcissist is deathtrap, that main dance floor; which i have seen with easily 200+ people on it, has a fence around it with a two narrow entrances both up several stairs....) After the fire I was hoping to see some changes that would restore my personal confidence in safety here for when I am out having fun but now it seems to be becoming an issue of the past already. I am concerned with the lack of follow ups or investigations into the current laws or maybe I am just poorly informed I am not sure, hence posting.

It is all well and good prosecuting those responsible for the tragedy but I would like to see more about safety laws and actually making businesses compliant.

Anyone able to alleviate my concerns? Or have an opinion on what they think will happen or not happen as a result of this tragedy?

I am surprised that it has taken so long (to be forgotten)

Things might (big might) improve in the short term but in the longer term it will go back to the same old, same old way that things get done (have always gotten done) here in Thailand.

Proprietors of places of entertainment, hotels, theatres, malls, etc., etc., are only motivated by one thing and one thing only, and that is money.

Thats why I am going to frequent bed more, reward owners doing the right thing. It could be a idea for someone to set up a service which promotes venues that meet these standards or some way of finding out which venues have put in these extra precautions and efforts.

you mean like a standards thingy, wow interesting concept. Member of BBB and the like?

[PhilHarries]

Aside from the family and friends of the victims it seems that the whole tragedy of zantika is already being forgotten...

I went to high school in Thailand and have recently returned hoping to work here but currently enjoying a vacation and I love Thailand. The last couple of years Zantika was the place to go for my friends and I on a Friday or Saturday night(yes at the time we were all underage), in fact we were going to go on new years as it was the last night but luckily decided to go with a larger group to Narz. After the fire I realized how much danger I was in each time I went there for fun, without even being slightly aware of it. Now I am going to places and only seeing the lack of safety (narcissist is deathtrap, that main dance floor; which i have seen with easily 200+ people on it, has a fence around it with a two narrow entrances both up several stairs....) After the fire I was hoping to see some changes that would restore my personal confidence in safety here for when I am out having fun but now it seems to be becoming an issue of the past already. I am concerned with the lack of follow ups or investigations into the current laws or maybe I am just poorly informed I am not sure, hence posting.

It is all well and good prosecuting those responsible for the tragedy but I would like to see more about safety laws and actually making businesses compliant.

Anyone able to alleviate my concerns? Or have an opinion on what they think will happen or not happen as a result of this tragedy?

I am surprised that it has taken so long (to be forgotten)

Things might (big might) improve in the short term but in the longer term it will go back to the same old, same old way that things get done (have always gotten done) here in Thailand.

Proprietors of places of entertainment, hotels, theatres, malls, etc., etc., are only motivated by one thing and one thing only, and that is money.

Thats why I am going to frequent bed more, reward owners doing the right thing. It could be a idea for someone to set up a service which promotes venues that meet these standards or some way of finding out which venues have put in these extra precautions and efforts.

you mean like a standards thingy, wow interesting concept. Member of BBB and the like?

Well it evidently needs something, maybe not anything formal but there's no reason not to include a safety rating in club listings. I don't know much about the club circuit in Bangkok, well absolutely fek all to be truthful, but in KL there was a freebie clubbers magazine called Juice that did all sorts of reviews of the scene there and included a listing of the nightclubs. I don't know if such a publication exists in Bangkok but I would expect it does. Well along with opening hours, music type, dress code, entrance fees why should such a listing not include a basic safety code symbol?

The problem is safety ain't sexy. People are more worried about the cover charge, drink cost, music type, totty density etc besides which fires never happen to them, somebody else always dies. It's only when something like the Santika happens that safey gets a look in then everyone wants to blame everyone else and everyone wants to know why safety standards were not checked nor maintained.

Safety may not be sexy but death is eternally cool.

[mynextgig]

Aside from the family and friends of the victims it seems that the whole tragedy of zantika is already being forgotten...

I went to high school in Thailand and have recently returned hoping to work here but currently enjoying a vacation and I love Thailand. The last couple of years Zantika was the place to go for my friends and I on a Friday or Saturday night(yes at the time we were all underage), in fact we were going to go on new years as it was the last night but luckily decided to go with a larger group to Narz. After the fire I realized how much danger I was in each time I went there for fun, without even being slightly aware of it. Now I am going to places and only seeing the lack of safety (narcissist is deathtrap, that main dance floor; which i have seen with easily 200+ people on it, has a fence around it with a two narrow entrances both up several stairs....) After the fire I was hoping to see some changes that would restore my personal confidence in safety here for when I am out having fun but now it seems to be becoming an issue of the past already. I am concerned with the lack of follow ups or investigations into the current laws or maybe I am just poorly informed I am not sure, hence posting.

It is all well and good prosecuting those responsible for the tragedy but I would like to see more about safety laws and actually making businesses compliant.

Anyone able to alleviate my concerns? Or have an opinion on what they think will happen or not happen as a result of this tragedy?

I am surprised that it has taken so long (to be forgotten)

Things might (big might) improve in the short term but in the longer term it will go back to the same old, same old way that things get done (have always gotten done) here in Thailand.

Proprietors of places of entertainment, hotels, theatres, malls, etc., etc., are only motivated by one thing and one thing only, and that is money.

I dont think it has been forgotten as much as you think, if you watch the Thai TV Channels they are constantly resurrecting the story over and over, interviewing those injured and struggling to pay hospital bills, victims family members complaining about the paltry compensation offers etc.

I am sure much of this coverage is being sponsored due to the insane level of interest Thai people seem to have in these sensationalised television programmes but its certainly maintaining this issue in peoples minds which can only be a good thing right ?

[petedk]

Maybe the case hasn't been forgotten but facts seem to be hidden. This is taken from today's Bangkok Post.

Three more Santika bosses come forward

Published: 24/01/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

Another three managers from the Santika pub reported themselves to Thong Lor police yesterday, denying any involvement in the New Year pub fire that killed 66 revellers.

Police on Thursday summoned the pub manager in charge of the location, Thawatchai Srithumma, marketing manager Wutthipong Waialakkree and entertainment manager Pongthep Jinda. They are accused of recklessness leading to death and injury, but deny the charges. They were released without bail.

Chief investigator Pol Col Kachornsak Pansakorn said police were still searching for Suriya Ritrabue, managing director of White & Brothers (2003) Co which operates the pub.

Investigators had concluded findings into the cause of the blaze but could not make it public for fear of the negative impact on the case.

[aussiejosh]

Investigators had concluded findings into the cause of the blaze but could not make it public for fear of the negative impact on the case.

Great...

Is there a guide in bangkok similar to the Juice Magazine in KL?

[HorseDoctor]

Aside from the family and friends of the victims it seems that the whole tragedy of zantika is already being forgotten...

I went to high school in Thailand and have recently returned hoping to work here but currently enjoying a vacation and I love Thailand. The last couple of years Zantika was the place to go for my friends and I on a Friday or Saturday night(yes at the time we were all underage), in fact we were going to go on new years as it was the last night but luckily decided to go with a larger group to Narz. After the fire I realized how much danger I was in each time I went there for fun, without even being slightly aware of it. Now I am going to places and only seeing the lack of safety (narcissist is deathtrap, that main dance floor; which i have seen with easily 200+ people on it, has a fence around it with a two narrow entrances both up several stairs....) After the fire I was hoping to see some changes that would restore my personal confidence in safety here for when I am out having fun but now it seems to be becoming an issue of the past already. I am concerned with the lack of follow ups or investigations into the current laws or maybe I am just poorly informed I am not sure, hence posting.

It is all well and good prosecuting those responsible for the tragedy but I would like to see more about safety laws and actually making businesses compliant.

Anyone able to alleviate my concerns? Or have an opinion on what they think will happen or not happen as a result of this tragedy?

If you are concerned for your safety, you need to get out of Thailand cause the authorities and majority of citizenry do not give it one iota of thought.

Look around, see the mom with her brood on a motorcycle? Look up see the overloaded wires dangling , look down, can you walk on the sidewalk without looking at it ? look at the tread on the tires of the cememt truck or public bus.

Is anything safe here? Doubt it And nuclear power is coming...

Edited January 24, 2009 by HorseDoctor

[britmaveric]

Not really surprised, old news and its back to substandard practices - farang worry too mut - mak mak mak Sanuk.

Edited January 24, 2009 by britmaveric