Advice On Common Problem, Thai Farang Relationship

[bajaman]

I am asking for some reasonable comments for a situation which happens time and time again and one I have myself, fallen into. As you will see however, the advice is not for myself.

Background - In early 2007 I met a Thai girl from Isaan when visiting Thailand. Yes, she worked in a bar, behind the bar and pretty well ran the place but all the same, she worked in a bar. We corresponded after the event and of course a relationship grew. I have been to visit her again and we kept in daily contact through phone, sms, email. I was moving towards a position of being able to build on the relationship because my own marriage was at an end so I was effectively free to do as I wished. We talked often of the future and of course I sent her the obligatory ATM card for access to funds to help her and her family. I was constantly assured that she had no other person in her life as a relationship partner, and if she ever did, that she would tell me and we could part company.

I spent two or three weeks staying with her in her apartment getting to know her even better and we travelled a bit around Thailand. Whilst I had my suspicions of someone else in the background at times, I took her word that she was totally honest and would at least tell me the truth about this.

The problem I had was that my business and main source of income was in another country and I was certainly not wealthy enough to support her if I left my business. We looked at opportunities of a business in Thailand and this was a possibility. She said that she would be prepared to live part of her life in my country but of course needed to support her own family.

We were working well towards this and towards the end of last year things were stating to take shape.

I followed this forum a lot and in doing so many alarm bells rang. She spent a lot of time with her brother, phone turned off many times, disappeared for days on end and of course when I asked pointed questions, I always got the standard answer of "Don't think too much'.

It is true that in the back of my mind I always felt something was wrong but i chose to not believe it.

Just prior to Christmas I received an email from her with some photos. The problem was that the email was one that had previously been sent to another guy with the same photos. Cutting a long story short, it turned out that she had this guy in exactly the same position as me since before I had met her and was running at least two of us.

I discussed this and she of course had to come clean to some degree and I ended the relationship as it was, but agreed to retain the friendship. I further agreed to not make contact with the other guy. I felt it was not my place to do so and seriously wanted her to be happy.

About four weeks later I got an email from the other guy. He had apparently already discovered about me some months ago by finding one of my printed e-mails in her apparement. He had asked her about this and she had told him that the relaitonship with me was over and he had nothing to worry about.

the guy is a very reasonable guy and made contact with me to ask me to help him by not making further contact with her. He stated he loves her and wants to try and put all of this behind him and move on. He has asked me some detail which i am happy to give but the problem is that anything I say in relation to advising him on future protection will seem like sour grapes or a desire to hurt their relationship.

He is currently hurting very badly, as of course am I but at least I have made my decision and walked away. He intends to stay the course. I have advised him to make decisions with his head and not with his heart, but I thought that if I posted this message on here there may be some independant advice which would follow and I can point him to the thread. I really want to help this guy to make the right decision, whatever that may be.

At least then he can make his own mind up with the benefit of decent informaiton rather than simpy following his heart and maybe getting it wrong.

It is possible of course that once she has a man in her life 100%, she will change. The fact that she ran a least two of us may just be her method of fishing, place a few hooks out, play with the fish and take any that truly bite. If this is so, he may have a wonderful life ahead with her. My experience through reading this board says otherwise.

I am happy to add informtion if it is needed to clarify any points.

Thanks

Edited January 25, 2009 by bajaman

[britmaveric]

Nah I hate to say this, but what she did was extremely wrong and the lad should be completely furious - she made a fool out of you and of course the current lad who is staying the course. You can never trust a lady like this, if you hadn't found out this would be still going on. My advice for the other lad - kick her to the curb, this will only end in disaster for him and you should thank yourself lucky you got off so lightly.

[Jonny B]

obligatory ATM card? - why is it obligatory and why do you both feel you have to resort to a bar girl when there are so many decent girls here in normal employment, with a bit oh effort you could meet one im sure.

as said many times before u can take the girl out of the bar but u cant take the bar out of the girl! but who knows she could be different ha? doubt it tho.

[Geekfreaklover]

She is a player. Both guys have been played.

The problem is that guys in this situation rarely listen to advice, no matter how well intended the advice is.

[dave111223]

You did the right thing. No shame in being tricked once.

He on the other hand must be a sucker for punishment.

P.S. Why stay friends with her? In a normally break up sure; but there was obviously a financial motive on her part, which makes it somewhat dispicable, why would you want to be friend with someone like this?

Edited January 25, 2009 by dave111223

[bajaman]

obligatory ATM card? - why is it obligatory and why do you both feel you have to resort to a bar girl when there are so many decent girls here in normal employment, with a bit oh effort you could meet one im sure.

as said many times before u can take the girl out of the bar but u cant take the bar out of the girl! but who knows she could be different ha? doubt it tho.

Obligatory was tongue in cheek, just trying to paint the picture in the best way possible.

Yes I agree about bar girls but believe it or not, for me anyway, I was not in the hunt for a girl at all. I was in the hunt for a decent beer and really liked her and emotions got their way. Maybe crazy in hindsight but life throws curved balls at you now and then doesn't it.

[Miserere]

There are good Thai women out there but she ain't one! she was playing you both and god knows who else for suckers.

Live and learn though eh?

Isn't there some famous book, fictional but based on many true stories of bar girls doing over love desperate farangs?, am sure I read it years ago but can't remember the title.

[bajaman]

She is a player. Both guys have been played.

The problem is that guys in this situation rarely listen to advice, no matter how well intended the advice is.

I am to blame for ignoring the signs and advice I read on this board and elsewhere. I hope this thread will assist the other guy to make his decision rationally and maybe also assist others in not making the same mistake I made.

The heart ruled the head.

[bajaman]

P.S. Why stay friends with her? In a normally break up sure; but there was obviously a financial motive on her part, which makes it somewhat dispicable, why would you want to be friend with someone like this?

Because regardless of everything she had done, I still felt emotionally attached to her. In time maybe the attachment will release itself but the reality is, it hurt more than having a red hot poker stuffed up your backside. This is recent so still pretty tender, you are of course right

Edited January 25, 2009 by bajaman

[jubby]

There's at least 3 Thai ladies in our village running several Farangs at the same time, probably the same in every village in this green and pleasant land. It seems perfectly acceptable to this society and I think its actively encouraged and out in the open. The only person who doesn't know is the farang cash Cow. I put it down to sheer stupidity on the farangs side. These Guys are totally under control and certainly not allowed around to ours for a beer our two, lest the truth come out. What advice can we give you ? I'm sure were a total laughing stock.

I should add that its not all Farangs , some have two Japs, or two guys from singapore if it makes any difference. I can't keep up with who's with who.

[bajaman]

Can I just add this, that just discussing this on the board right now is actually very therapeutic and helpful

It is appreciated

[Jonny B]

obligatory ATM card? - why is it obligatory and why do you both feel you have to resort to a bar girl when there are so many decent girls here in normal employment, with a bit oh effort you could meet one im sure.

as said many times before u can take the girl out of the bar but u cant take the bar out of the girl! but who knows she could be different ha? doubt it tho.

Obligatory was tongue in cheek, just trying to paint the picture in the best way possible.

Yes I agree about bar girls but believe it or not, for me anyway, I was not in the hunt for a girl at all. I was in the hunt for a decent beer and really liked her and emotions got their way. Maybe crazy in hindsight but life throws curved balls at you now and then doesn't it.

yeah fair enough, at least u were smarter enough to get out early, as for him if hes not as smart then thats his own problem hey, im sure hes only going to read what he wants to read from these replies and the members on here are probably tired of replying to the same problem over and over again, i think the overall consensus is always get out now. i know some single, decent hard working girls that are looking for decent men if he prefers!

[britmaveric]

^Unfortunately these stories happen over and over again. You can warn lads til the end of days and result is always the same.

Mate of mine was smitten over a waitress in a cafe, told him be careful and he was emailing her. Well ended up after a quick look at her account, she was running 10 lads at once. I informed him of this and told him have a look yourself and gave him the password. (most of them use the same password which is bizarre in its own right)

If you have to send dosh ect, this isn't a genuine relationship. I treat my gf same as I would as a western bird. (keep this in mind and you won't go wrong)

[WaiWai]

"There are none so blind as those who will not see".

Unfortunately, people will contort their instincts and belief systems into all manner of knots in order to sustain a fantasy.

You could try to convey to him how you contributed to the illusion. Share your experience and tell him how betrayed and hurt you now feel. However, I doubt there's much you can do to help this guy.

[Birdman]

Friend of mine, a very nice and caring guy, was here for some weeks. His long time Thai gf did not once show up. She explained on the phone, that she has to organise family matters...

[neverdie]

bajaman,

There are many players here mate, forget about the other guy, let him make his own decisions, concentrate on making the right decisions for yourself and steer clear of all those types of places you have been warned about.

There are some decent ones around, but it seems for every nice girl there is at least 20 sharks, of course the ratio various on depending on where you 'hunt' but now we going back to the point I made above.

Keep your chin up and keep smiling.....you're apparently dead a long time!

[britmaveric]

Oh and don't make the mistake of thinking its just ladies from bars - sharks are from every walk of life.

[bajaman]

Unfortunately, people will contort their instincts and belief systems into all manner of knots in order to sustain a fantasy.

This is so true, fantasy or dream. We make allowances and adjustments we would not normally make. Thank you

Edited January 25, 2009 by bajaman

[Geekfreaklover]

I've got a European friend who visits the country a few times a year. His Thai gf is a real nasty piece of work. She is (to use a few words) rude, violent, racist and a gambling addict. She doesn't like him let alone love him. Ex bargirl. She does not work (I have farang, work for what?) She is having a lesiban affair behind his back. She has sold everything he has bought her. Motorbike, furniture, Tv, gold etc to support her gambling addiction. Everytime he comes back to town he has to pay 4-5 months back rent and buy back the gold even though he sends money every month.

I, along with at least ten other expats have told him what a cow she is and to leave her. Will he listen?

Nah, some people just don't listen.

You have to let them learn the hard way.

a shame. But what can you do?

Edited January 25, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[skippybangkok]

obligatory ATM card? - why is it obligatory and why do you both feel you have to resort to a bar girl when there are so many decent girls here in normal employment, with a bit oh effort you could meet one im sure.

as said many times before u can take the girl out of the bar but u cant take the bar out of the girl! but who knows she could be different ha? doubt it tho.

I baffles me.

Get a Crack whore in the US, or a working girl from the red light district in Amsterdam...... and then complain you got screwed in "love" . Most people would answer "duh".

As per Jonny, there are plenty of decent & educated girls, maybe u shud spend some more time and effort looking for someone decent.

Move on, consider it as a life lesson

[Fore Man]

All the foregoing advice has been spot on...particularly the poignant reminder that you can take a girl out of the bar but not vice versa.

I married a lady 11 years ago and took her to the USA to live for 5 years, then returned to LOS to retire here. My wife was a hotel sales manager when I met her, and proved to be a woman of great moral integrity. But she is as someone remarked, among the 5% of Thai women who will not resort to trickery to keep a wealthy farang dancing on their hooks. The point I wish to make is this: that even when you marry or begin a relationship with even a good Thai woman, you marry far more than the lady herself. You marry all the emotional baggage she brings along with her. Her family, her friends, her debts, her habits and so forth. They all pre-existed you and the girl has these loyalties that she must fulfill.

So when you relate to a Thai lady, my advice is that you make sure you do this open-eyed and understand the extent of that additional baggage. This introspection will show you if you truly love the lass or are marrying her for for any other reasons. Thai women believe in the "heart with four rooms' metaphor--they have 'rooms' set aside to love themselves, their husbands, their mothers and fathers, and their children. And they manage to meet all of these obligations. But deep in the psyche of any Thai woman she will make sure to take care of her original family and does this at the expense of herself and of her husband if it comes to that. It is a deeper, more profound relationship than we Farang husbands generally fathom. They also believe in the 'gilded cage' metaphor--and have to build a golden cage around themselves to properly satisfy their many obligations in life. The Farang husband is included, but is not the center of her attentions in this regard. Finally, if you have ever studied Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs theory, you can best undertand how most Thai (and Oriental) women think and how they are motivated. Unlike Western women, their Asian sisters never reach the 'Self-Actualization" level--the top-most in Maslow's pyramid. They are always scrambling to fulfill more fundamental needs--shelter, food, water, clothing and such...and once they have met these goals for themselves, then take on a mission to assist their family and friends attain the same levels of comfort. This is what you deal with in building a relationship with a Thai woman, and the process is arcane and complex. They truly love you along the way, but at the same time use you as well, as it is your endless source of funds which enable their growth and upward movement in the Maslow structure.

As others have suggested, find a better candidate to share your dreams and emotions with...believe me they are out there! There are bar girls who could become an ideal mate, but in most cases they have inculcated a set of values that will not endure in marriage.

Good luck!

[robbo1]

I've got a European friend who visits the country a few times a year. His Thai gf is a real nasty piece of work. She is (to use a few words) rude, violent, racist and a gambling addict. She doesn't like him let alone love him. Ex bargirl. She does not work (I have farang, work for what?) She is having a lesiban affair behind his back. She has sold everything he has bought her. Motorbike, furniture, Tv, gold etc to support her gambling addiction. Everytime he comes back to town he has to pay 4-5 months back rent and buy back the gold even though he sends money every month.

I, along with at least ten other expats have told him what a cow she is and to leave her. Will he listen?

Nah, some people just don't listen.

You have to let them learn the hard way.

a shame. But what can you do?

My wifes girlfriend is like that she has a swiss or swede boyfriend not sure but when I bought a friend over with me on our last trip she was willing to stay with him do anything my friend wanted actually .

Luckily he backed off and showed no interest I got to say I was not impressed with her and have lost a lot of respect for her doing this

[dumball]

Only have a few comments here , the warnings are out and have been for a VERY long time , the biggest problem is seems is the pussy magnet which has a very strong draw , this poster and his opposite number have not been able to negate this magnetic influence . One does not have to follow what is considered THE NORM ,the norm for what ? Do you have a ring in your nose you have to follow so blindly down the path so many have been led before you and will be led for ever and a day ? This sea called Thailand has many , many fish , the problem is YOU have become THE FISH , always , and I mean ALWAYS follow the 'Golden Rule' "He who has the gold makes the rules " . One more adage to add and I am finished , "There is no fool like an old fool who is easily parted from his money " .

Some live and learn , far too many who come to Thailand , live but rarely learn , not too late to go to school !!!!!!!!

[Maigo6]

She is having a lesiban affair behind his back.

Perhaps he's hoping for some action on that front and thats why he sticks around.

[GungaDin]

P.S. Why stay friends with her? In a normally break up sure; but there was obviously a financial motive on her part, which makes it somewhat dispicable, why would you want to be friend with someone like this?

Because regardless of everything she had done, I still felt emotionally attached to her. In time maybe the attachment will release itself but the reality is, it hurt more than having a red hot poker stuffed up your backside. This is recent so still pretty tender, you are of course right

Dump her today, don't piss about or you will be sorry.

Stay well clear of bar girls & Thailand will be your oyster.

There are millions of girls here who are straight up. Get out and about.

[Geekfreaklover]

She is having a lesiban affair behind his back.

Perhaps he's hoping for some action on that front and thats why he sticks around.

Nah, a remote contingency if you see the pair of them. Ones a walrus, the other a Hippo.

[dumball]

P.S. Why stay friends with her? In a normally break up sure; but there was obviously a financial motive on her part, which makes it somewhat dispicable, why would you want to be friend with someone like this?

Because regardless of everything she had done, I still felt emotionally attached to her. In time maybe the attachment will release itself but the reality is, it hurt more than having a red hot poker stuffed up your backside. This is recent so still pretty tender, you are of course right

Dump her today, don't piss about or you will be sorry.

Stay well clear of bar girls & Thailand will be your oyster.

There are millions of girls here who are straight up. Get out and about.

I still felt emotionally attached to her , Meaow , she has already uncrossed her thighs , where is the attachment ? You have a million Baht to spare , go get her back she will last as long aS YOUR MONEY , as Gungadin has said , dump her TODAY , cast another line , make the rules , stick to them and hopefully be happy , there are multiple choices of what is wet and warm , the choice is all yours .

[britmaveric]

Have a good laff because most likely other gullible lads ensnared in her web. I seriously doubt she is sticking to just one now - too much dosh to be had.

[davidthai]

I am asking for some reasonable comments for a situation which happens time and time again and one I have myself, fallen into. As you will see however, the advice is not for myself.

Background - In early 2007 I met a Thai girl from Isaan when visiting Thailand. Yes, she worked in a bar, behind the bar and pretty well ran the place but all the same, she worked in a bar. We corresponded after the event and of course a relationship grew. I have been to visit her again and we kept in daily contact through phone, sms, email. I was moving towards a position of being able to build on the relationship because my own marriage was at an end so I was effectively free to do as I wished. We talked often of the future and of course I sent her the obligatory ATM card for access to funds to help her and her family. I was constantly assured that she had no other person in her life as a relationship partner, and if she ever did, that she would tell me and we could part company.

I spent two or three weeks staying with her in her apartment getting to know her even better and we travelled a bit around Thailand. Whilst I had my suspicions of someone else in the background at times, I took her word that she was totally honest and would at least tell me the truth about this.

The problem I had was that my business and main source of income was in another country and I was certainly not wealthy enough to support her if I left my business. We looked at opportunities of a business in Thailand and this was a possibility. She said that she would be prepared to live part of her life in my country but of course needed to support her own family.

We were working well towards this and towards the end of last year things were stating to take shape.

I followed this forum a lot and in doing so many alarm bells rang. She spent a lot of time with her brother, phone turned off many times, disappeared for days on end and of course when I asked pointed questions, I always got the standard answer of "Don't think too much'.

It is true that in the back of my mind I always felt something was wrong but i chose to not believe it.

Just prior to Christmas I received an email from her with some photos. The problem was that the email was one that had previously been sent to another guy with the same photos. Cutting a long story short, it turned out that she had this guy in exactly the same position as me since before I had met her and was running at least two of us.

I discussed this and she of course had to come clean to some degree and I ended the relationship as it was, but agreed to retain the friendship. I further agreed to not make contact with the other guy. I felt it was not my place to do so and seriously wanted her to be happy.

About four weeks later I got an email from the other guy. He had apparently already discovered about me some months ago by finding one of my printed e-mails in her apparement. He had asked her about this and she had told him that the relaitonship with me was over and he had nothing to worry about.

the guy is a very reasonable guy and made contact with me to ask me to help him by not making further contact with her. He stated he loves her and wants to try and put all of this behind him and move on. He has asked me some detail which i am happy to give but the problem is that anything I say in relation to advising him on future protection will seem like sour grapes or a desire to hurt their relationship.

He is currently hurting very badly, as of course am I but at least I have made my decision and walked away. He intends to stay the course. I have advised him to make decisions with his head and not with his heart, but I thought that if I posted this message on here there may be some independant advice which would follow and I can point him to the thread. I really want to help this guy to make the right decision, whatever that may be.

At least then he can make his own mind up with the benefit of decent informaiton rather than simpy following his heart and maybe getting it wrong.

It is possible of course that once she has a man in her life 100%, she will change. The fact that she ran a least two of us may just be her method of fishing, place a few hooks out, play with the fish and take any that truly bite. If this is so, he may have a wonderful life ahead with her. My experience through reading this board says otherwise.

I am happy to add informtion if it is needed to clarify any points.

Thanks

I took a bar girl from a bar where4 i had met her and we lived happily in Bangkok with her 2 small children for 2 years , i married her and she wanted to go to UK to live so i went to UK for 3 month leaving her at home in Bangkok whilst i got fixed up with a job and house , after i had been in UK about 1 month . her phone was always switched of when i called her , i received a phone call from one of our mutual friends in Bangkok to say my wife was at Nana disco every night where she had another BF , i came back to Thailand the next day to find she had moved out of the house we lived in and shipped the kids of to her sister , i got a divorce not long after that , i have seen her since looking for customers down Sukhumvit , it goes to prove to say that you cant take the bar out of the girl . Good you got out early , there are lots of good girls in Thailand ,

[dumball]

Have a good laff because most likely other gullible lads ensnared in her web. I seriously doubt she is sticking to just one now - too much dosh to be had.

Well said Maveric , OP , take a good look in the mirror and repeat daily "Mirror mirror on the wall , who is the most stupid of them all , and why am I ? " . As long as you are a gullible nitwit , you will continue your trip into the meaow trap , admit defeat and move on .