Financial Crisis

[Naam]

It doesn't matter if the money was wasted or not. The question is why the working class should pay for the stupid decisions made by bondholders and banks. They are the ones loaning money and assume a risk. Look at Iceland were they said no to helping out the investors/banks. I turned out to be a good decision as they are now back growing their economy.

The banks cheated bondholders and investors. And you find that okay Alex ?

actually the taxpayers of various countries including Iceland are those having been cheated. to the best of my knowledge most cash investors received their money from their relevant governments and Iceland will compensate these governments with the taxdollars of Iceland's taxpayers. negotiations are still going on concerning the interest Iceland has to pay. no riots in Iceland because the average citizen is not aware what's in the offing for him/her in the near future besides existing rampant inflation caused by the huge devaluation of the Króna.

unfortunately... the banksters are laughing, counting their cash which is stashed far away from Iceland's shores and if they can they will cheat again.

summary: Alex should inform himself instead of making uneducated guesses.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Naam

[AlexLah]

It doesn't matter if the money was wasted or not. The question is why the working class should pay for the stupid decisions made by bondholders and banks. They are the ones loaning money and assume a risk. Look at Iceland were they said no to helping out the investors/banks. I turned out to be a good decision as they are now back growing their economy.

The banks cheated bondholders and investors. And you find that okay Alex ?

actually the taxpayers of various countries including Iceland are those having been cheated. to the best of my knowledge most cash investors received their money from their relevant governments and Iceland will compensate these governments with the taxdollars of Iceland's taxpayers. negotiations are still going on concerning the interest Iceland has to pay. no riots in Iceland because the average citizen is not aware what's in the offing for him/her in the near future besides existing rampant inflation caused by the huge devaluation of the Króna.

unfortunately... the banksters are laughing, counting their cash which is stashed far away from Iceland's shores and if they can they will cheat again.

summary: Alex should inform himself instead of making uneducated guesses.

That is sort of what I was trying to say Naam.

My question was/is, why should/will the taxpayer pay for these fraudulent activities.

And yes Iceland's government is still trying to find out how to get rid of the loan sharks.

Anny finds it perfectly acceptable to let taxpayers pay for the losses of (private) investors I guess?

And no I do not approve of banks cheating their customers by selling canned rotten fish and label it as high grade salmon.

The point is that investors should do their homework before making a decision. If they loose money because of a bad decision it is not my problem is it?

But the blame game is nicely played by the MSM. Remember first telling it were those poor suckers that took out home loans they could not afford. Then we got the subprime crisis which would be contained according to Mr, Ben (know nothing) Bernanky and then when the derivatives blew up, Hanky Panky Paulson was threatening with martial law and the DOW going down significantly. They presented their 787 Billion bail out plan and snake oil salesman Geithner told the plan would work as he had no plan B. A 4 page plan was first presented (and rejected) followed by a monster more then 1000 page plan which nobody had time to read through.

Anyway the whole time line is presented in this thread and it makes good reading ten years from now when the people realize it was all a big Ponzi scheme.

As I said those (partly) responsible for this mess, should be held accountable in court but guess what, if the court finds that you are acting from sheer moronic incompetence, you cannot be blamed.

Read it here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335038/RBS-boss-Sir-Fred-Goodwin-cleared-fraud-FSA-banks-fall-errors.html

[AlexLah]

Yes Midas I did say many times to learn history but it seems people are not even willing to learn about the last hundred years.

What is it that they are afraid off?

Are they afraid about learning how they have been deceived and conditioned?

Again I post this link to a very important docu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dA89CBBOC0

It is up to you people to be willing to understand how we have been deceived.

The rabbit hole goes deep.....

Alex

[midas]

Yes Midas I did say many times to learn history but it seems people are not even willing to learn about the last hundred years.

What is it that they are afraid off?

Are they afraid about learning how they have been deceived and conditioned?

Again I post this link to a very important

It is up to you people to be willing to understand how we have been deceived.

The rabbit hole goes deep.....

Alex

Interesting Alex and I had never seen that clip before.

But what happens now with people in the West not having enough income to buy the things they don’t really need anyway ?

And I hope they don’t rely too much on China to save the " distorted " as far as i can see.

Last week I was in Shanghai. A developing country they say – well the prices of some things are already well out of reach for many. I paid 128 CNY for a coffee ( equivalent to 576 THB ). While we in Thailand pay no more than 170 THB to see a movie in Shanghai they already pay 110 CNY ( = 495 THB ). This cannot be good because their wages cannot grow that quickly surely ?

Edited December 21, 2010 by midas

[Naam]

I paid 128 CNY for a coffee ( equivalent to 576 THB ).

here in St. Moritz exactly the same price. plain cup of coffee CHF 18.50 (THB 576). coincidence?

[Naam]

Yes Midas I did say many times to learn history but it seems people are not even willing to learn about the last hundred years.

What is it that they are afraid off?

Are they afraid about learning how they have been deceived and conditioned?

most people are not afraid. those with an IQ of 82.5 or lower don't understand what is going on. those with a higher IQ have realised that fighting reality and established mighty powers does not pay but adjusting and make the best out of it is anytime better than acting like The Right Honourable Señor Don Quijote de la Mancha.

nota bene: there is no way to beat the established system! howl with the wolves and pick up what crumbs the big shots drop from their tables. revolutionary talk is cheap but leads to nowhere, action for self preservation and individual benefit is not only preferable but mandatory.

to Alex and Midas... ah sez "velkomm to reealitee!"

[Naam]

Anyway the whole time line is presented in this thread and it makes good reading ten years from now when the people realize it was all a big Ponzi scheme.

Pulitzer and most probably the treasured Gobble Prize for sure!

[midas]

I paid 128 CNY for a coffee ( equivalent to 576 THB ).

here in St. Moritz exactly the same price. plain cup of coffee CHF 18.50 (THB 576). coincidence?

please tell me where so i can tell them YOU can afford to pay

more than that !

But seriously i see the salary levels in Switzerland in CHF :-

e.g.A waiter with apprenticeship will get about 55'000, max

A chef de cuisine 78'000, max

A receptionist 52'000, max

A casserolier 45'500 max

A receptionist with three years apprenticeship 60'000 max

In Shanghai the locals get paid about 2000 yuan to 3000 yuan per month

so say 30-40,000 CNY per annum - a very huge difference to be able to

buy a plain cup of coffee

[12DrinkMore]

Bank Ratios....

...and partly why the mess is so fuc_king big

http://londonbanker.blogspot.com/2010/12/more-on-lunacy-of-basle-accords.html

Finally, sovereign debt of Zone A states is zero weighted - no reserves required at all. Zone A includes any country in the EEA, full members of the OECD, or states that have concluded special lending arrangements with the IMF except that any state that reschedules its debt is excluded from Zone A status for five years.

So the banks have lent money in enormous and essentially unlimited quantities to basket cases such as Greece and Ireland, and never had to keep some reserve, even an itsy-bitsy one, against these loans. And they can all say with PRIDE and SELF-ASSURANCE

"We have adhered to the Basel Regulations, so it's not OUR fault, so come on give us another BAILOUT.

Edited December 21, 2010 by 12DrinkMore

[Naam]

please tell me where so i can tell them YOU can afford to pay more than that !

seen from an asian perspective any price in Switzerland (especially where we are now) reminds me of highway robbery

[churchill]

I paid 128 CNY for a coffee ( equivalent to 576 THB ).

here in St. Moritz exactly the same price. plain cup of coffee CHF 18.50 (THB 576). coincidence?

please tell me where so i can tell them YOU can afford to pay

more than that !

But seriously i see the salary levels in Switzerland in CHF :-

e.g.A waiter with apprenticeship will get about 55'000, max

A chef de cuisine 78'000, max

A receptionist 52'000, max

A casserolier 45'500 max

A receptionist with three years apprenticeship 60'000 max

In Shanghai the locals get paid about 2000 yuan to 3000 yuan per month

so say 30-40,000 CNY per annum - a very huge difference to be able to

buy a plain cup of coffee

This is interesting - Shanghai is now on par with many in Europe /

Hans Rosling's 200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes - The Joy of Stats - BBC Four

[LaoPo]

I paid 128 CNY for a coffee ( equivalent to 576 THB ).

here in St. Moritz

Enjoy!

LaoPo

[12DrinkMore]

This is interesting - Shanghai is now on par with many in Europe /

Hans Rosling's 200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes - The Joy of Stats - BBC Four

Pretty neat, as he said.

The big question is what happens next. Are we all going to rise up and be healthy and wealthy?

I am not optimistic.

[flying]

The beginning of the End of Dollar Hegemony

As evidenced in the commentary about the new trade arrangements between Russia and China, it should be obvious and intuitive that bilateral trade between any two given countries could be similarly invoiced in their respective currencies. The timeline is effectively zero given that these currencies already exist and are in local use. At issue, mostly, is the simple matter of breaking with mere tradition — the habit of invoicing/contracting in this third party currency, the dollar. Given the suitable functionality of most national currencies for the invoicing/payment of their bilateral trade, there is no need for the world to spend time and effort conjuring up a new supra-national currency unit to replace the dollar as a universal invoicing agent.

Edited December 21, 2010 by flying

[midas]

You don’t even have to riot – you can get into trouble for just sitting down in a peaceful protest

At the end of the day it is only money – but how much is your freedom worth ?

drip, drip , drip......

maybe we should start calling him " el-comandante "

Next( in collaboration with Bank of America executives ) they will find a way to fit Julian Assange

into this " category "....

White House Drafts Executive Order for Indefinite Detention

http://www.propublica.org/article/white-house-drafts-executive-order-for-indefinite-detention

Edited December 22, 2010 by midas

[BlackJack]

I think the writing is on the wall = complacency

Another scary example of public ignorance is the looming crisis in state and local government budgets. Federal stimulus funds were used to temporarily cover the deficits of agencies that are required to have balanced budgets, but that source of revenue is over. The impact of sharply smaller revenue streams leads some analysts to expect that this one financial problem will prevent any economic recovery in the United States, will lead to at least one million lost state and local government jobs, and eventually force the U.S. government to create money out of thin air for a record-sized bailout. Yet the seriousness of this crisis is little covered by the mainstream media. Certainly, no one in Washington wants to talk about it.

In the past two years, state and local governments together have spent nearly a half trillion dollars more than they collected in taxes, plus fell about one trillion dollars further behind in funding public pension liabilities.

When interviewed for the Dec. 19 broadcast of CBS’s 60 Minutes, Meredith Whitney, a financial analyst who made her reputation by warning that the big banks were in trouble long before the 2008 collapse, said “The most alarming thing about the state issue is the level of complacency. It has tentacles as wide as anything I’ve seen. I think next to housing this is the single most important issue in the United States, and certainly the largest threat to the US economy.” When Steve Kroft asked why the public wasn’t paying attention to this crisis, she said, “’Cause they don’t pay attention until they have to.” As much as the public lacks knowledge about what is really going on with the U.S. economy, their ignorance of the gold and silver markets is even worse. If you were to survey the general public, how many do you think realize—

• That foreign owners of U.S. dollars are becoming more aggressive at dumping the U.S. dollar for tangible assets such as gold, silver and other commodities?

• That buyers in the Far East are having such a difficult time acquiring physical gold and silver that they are now buying paper contracts and paying with U.S. dollars? This strategy enables the buyers to get rid of tens of billions of U.S. dollars, and gets them most of the way toward owning physical metals. As the buyers later find physical metal, they have been paying a premium in order to turn their paper into the real metal.

• The major governments have failed to come to an agreement to avoid a currency war where each issuer tries to knock down the value of its currency by more than the others?

• That the U.S. government has a huge incentive to suppress gold and silver prices – to help hold down the interest rate that it pays on Treasury debt?

• That the U.S. government has changed the terminology in describing its gold holdings from “Gold Reserves” to “Custodial Gold,” which is a sign that the U.S. government may no longer have title to all the gold it supposedly holds?

• That central banks, collectively, have turned from long-term net sellers to net buyers of gold reserves?

• That China is aggressively seeking to replace the U.S. dollar as the unit of payment for international transactions? As demand for the U.S. dollar declines, that will further impair its value.

• That gold and shares in gold mining companies now make up less than 1 percent of global investment portfolios, whereas it was well over 20 percent in 1980?

• That the price of gold, even though at a nominal high, is still not much more than halfway to the inflation-adjusted January 1980 peak price? Or that the price of silver would have to at least quadruple current levels to beat the January 1980 peak?

Today, the mainstream media carries many stories about so-called “experts” proclaiming that gold and silver prices have peaked. Unless they completely ignore the foregoing list and more, I just don’t see how they come to such conclusions.

The price of gold from the end of 2009 through Dec. 20 has risen 26 percent; silver has soared 74 percent. As good as those results are, in my judgment the prices of gold and silver in 2011 will rise by much greater percentages. As the public gradually understands what is really happening with precious metals, the growing demand for physical gold and silver will expand. If you want to give yourself a gift that you will appreciate for years to come, pick up some gold and silver soon.

Patrick A. Heller

[AlexLah]

Guys and girls we are completely forgetting one country that is (at this very moment) in an enormous housing finance bubble.

Yes, the only country above the US, you don't believe?

Do the crack or shack part two here: http://www.crackshackormansion.com/part2.html

After that watch a highly entertaining and informative episode with Max Keiser.

By the way I find this women named Stacey highly attractive......

[craigt3365]

Interesting website regarding houses in Vancouver. Unreal.

This report is out today. Interesting:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/22/news/economy/economists_survey_economic_outlook/index.htm

[LaoPo]

Interesting website regarding houses in Vancouver. Unreal.

This report is out today. Interesting:

http://money.cnn.com...tlook/index.htm

..where's the link?

LaoPo

[craigt3365]

Interesting website regarding houses in Vancouver. Unreal.

This report is out today. Interesting:

http://money.cnn.com...tlook/index.htm

..where's the link?

LaoPo

I've got really bad internet connections right now. So...I just referred to the post above mine on the crack or shack website. Sorry!

[LaoPo]

Interesting website regarding houses in Vancouver. Unreal.

This report is out today. Interesting:

http://money.cnn.com...tlook/index.htm

..where's the link?

LaoPo

I've got really bad internet connections right now. So...I just referred to the post above mine on the crack or shack website. Sorry!

OK, I see; I saw that link earlier and thought it was a joke but I had another view and it's amazing indeed.

However, I know for a fact that quite a few rich and wealthy Chinese are buying real estate in Vancouver and surroundings as a second home or even a home for their children for studying purposes.

There is a big number of Chinese, travelling up and down to Canada and BC in particular, even if they don't speak English since there is such a large Chinese population, more than 400.000 in Vancouver alone actually and some 4% of Canadian population being Chinese, that it is not a problem for them to feel at home because of the many restaurants, shops etc.

It seems to be easier for Chinese to get Canadian papers rather than American visa but I'm not informed why that would be.

LaoPo

[flying]

It seems to be easier for Chinese to get Canadian papers rather than American visa but I'm not informed why that would be.

It is because the US does not want China to see what terrible shape the makers of the IOU's they hold are in :lol:

Kidding....a little

But I actually think the Chinese do not choose Canada because it is easier...They choose because it is the better place to be resource wise & safety wise. China has purchased quite a bit of Canadian oil/gas fields...mines etc

[LaoPo]

It seems to be easier for Chinese to get Canadian papers rather than American visa but I'm not informed why that would be.

It is because the US does not want China to see what terrible shape the makers of the IOU's they hold are in :lol:

Kidding....a little

But I actually think the Chinese do not choose Canada because it is easier...They choose because it is the better place to be resource wise & safety wise. China has purchased quite a bit of Canadian oil/gas fields...mines etc

... and a few US bonds.....

http://www.treasury....cuments/mfh.txt

*** คริสมาสต์มีความสุข * Merry Christmas * Bon Natal * Bon Nadal * Frohe Weihnachten * Joyeux Noël * God jul * חג מולד שמח * Zalig Kerstmis * Buon Natale * 圣诞快乐 * Navidad Feliz * счастливое рождество * Natal Feliz * ハッピークリスマス * Nollaig Shona * Selamat Natal * Glædelig Jul * Hyvää Joulua * Καλά Χριστούγεννα * 메리 크리스마스 * Wesołych Świąt *** :jap:

LaoPo

Edited December 23, 2010 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

:o..and what the heck is this....?

U.S. Approved Business With Blacklisted Nations

By JO BECKER

Published: December 23, 2010

Despite sanctions and trade embargoes, over the past decade the United States government has granted special licenses allowing American companies to do billions of dollars in business with Iran and other countries blacklisted as state sponsors of terrorism, an examination by The New York Times has found. At the behest of a host of companies — from Kraft Food and Pepsi to some of the nation’s largest banks — a little-known office of the Treasury Department has made nearly 10,000 exceptions to American sanctions rules, approving deals involving countries that have been cast into economic purgatory, beyond the reach of American business.

Most of the licenses were approved under a decade-old law exempting agricultural and medical humanitarian aid from sanctions. But the law, pushed by the farm lobby and other industry groups, was written so broadly that allowable humanitarian aid has included cigarettes, Wrigley gum, Louisiana hot sauce, weight-loss remedies, body-building supplements and sports rehabilitation equipment sold to the institute that trains Iran’s Olympic athletes.

Hundreds of other licenses were approved because they passed a litmus test: They were deemed to serve American foreign policy goals. And many clearly do, like deals to provide famine relief in North Korea or to improve Internet connections — and nurture democracy — in Iran. But the examination also found cases in which the foreign-policy benefits were considerably less clear.

Continues here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/24/world/24sanctions.html?_r=1&emc=na

*** คริสมาสต์มีความสุข * Merry Christmas * Bon Natal * Bon Nadal * Frohe Weihnachten * Joyeux Noël * God jul * חג מולד שמח * Zalig Kerstmis * Buon Natale * 圣诞快乐 * Navidad Feliz * счастливое рождество * Natal Feliz * ハッピークリスマス * Nollaig Shona * Selamat Natal * Glædelig Jul * Hyvää Joulua * Καλά Χριστούγεννα * 메리 크리스마스 * Wesołych Świąt *** :jap:

LaoPo

[craigt3365]

I was scuba diving with some Chinese guys in Borneo 2 years ago. They split their time between BC and China. They made a joke that you could call any number in a particular area code in Vancouver and they would answer in Mandarin!

They are in Canada because you could get a visa for Canada with a substantial investment. Something the US does not offer. It has nothing to do with safety....merely ease of obtaining a visa. Do a Google search for Canadian Investment Visa for details....

Chinese nationals are the top seekers of permanent residency in Canada, with around 2,000 Chinese moving there after being wooed by the Canadian immigration policies for overseas investors.

In 2009 alone, Canada admitted more than 25,000 permanent residents from the Chinese mainland with around 2,000 of these part of the Canadian investor immigration programme.

Canada's immigration policies for overseas investors require a minimum net personal worth of C$800,000 ($771,395) and investment of C$400,000, as well as business or management experience.

Total deposits in Canada by Chinese investors may reach CA$1 billion this year if another 2,000 Chinese investor immigrants enter Canada in 2010.

[BlackJack]

for those that celebrate Christmas

I wish you all the best for now and the future

http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/worldssmalle.jpg

Edited December 24, 2010 by BlackJack

[flying]

for those that celebrate Christmas

I wish you all the best for now and the future

http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/worldssmalle.jpg

Same to you & yours

[hhgz]

Two years ago, “fractional banking” was the purportedcollapse of the world as we know it. Recent posters are now grasping at the phrase “quantitative easing”. Evidently, the newest mistake that will cause the sky to fall. It’s time to look over the past couple years, and take aglimpse at statements and prediction that were made. It’s interesting that all of them in common.

- Alex Jones tells the truth

- the Bilderberg Group conspired to destroy the world’seconomy

- Goldman Sachs’ CEO has license plates that read“2BIG2FAIL”

- a strong baht will destroy the Thai export market

- the Thai economy will succumb to hyperinflation

- the Thai economy will succumb to deflation

- the US economy will succumb to hyperinflation

- the US economy will succumb to deflation

- the Chinese economy will succumb to hyperinflation

- the Chinese economy will succumb to deflation

- the THB will be devalued to 60baht per USD

- the US declared war on Vietnam

- it will take Thailand 20 years to recover from therecession

- the US sold gold-plated titanium bricks to China

- when the DJIA dropped, and regained, 1,000 points in a few minutes, it was a conspiracy.

- (for the past 6 years) the real estate market in Thailandwill collapse

There are dozens of more statements similar to this and,they too, have a certain commonality to the above. In a couple years we can review the statements andpredictions that have been made recently, and see how many reflected reality.

[AlexLah]

A good short and easy to digest docu on globalisation plus a bit of history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTvqN8rOy54&feature=related

:jap:

[Naam]

the resident gloom&doomers rely and post nearly exclusively opinions of others. own views and arguments are limited to pictures, video clips and cryptic forecasts without tangible facts.

yawnnnn...

yes Alex, i mean you!