Financial Crisis

[flying]

You know on a serious note............We dont really need any of these massaged indicators knowing what we know.

As Naam said.....we each *know* how our situation is affected

While here in the US they may claim what they like....We who actually see our dollar going less distance in purchasing power

do not need to be told all is fine. We see the price of milk, bread, meats, fuel & we know our currency has lost strength here.

Edited April 17, 2012 by flying

[Naam]

That makes a lot of sense Herr Naam

does that mean you will support my nomination for "le Prix Noblaire en ce qui concerne combattre l'inflation en Thailande"?

you'd be the third supporter. the other two are my dogs... which i bribed with wild boar ham to get their vote.

Why did I not get any ham?

you will when you pass by! there is also red deer salami and other rare goodies like wild hare liver paté which are normally not available in shops. my brother and his two sons are hunters, that's why i have access to rare delicacies.

[Naam]

Yes it does make sence but laborious to say the least, I find there's enough effort involved in keeping a higher level view of my finances without so much detail. The other factor to consider of course is location expense, we moved last year from Phuket back to Chiang Mai and our cost of living expense has decreased by about one third. I'm sure the cost of a chicken breast at the supermarkets in both locations is broadly similar but our savings have not resulted solely from groceries, our cost savings have come in the areas of clothing, restaurants, transportation, medicines and utilities. None of those cost reductions have much to do with inflation hence your approach Naam, whilst very sound, is only reliable provided you stay in the same location and all other factors remain equal.

quite correct! however, the reason why i collect all these data is not to monitor inflation. i require the data for long term investment planning and extrapolations. amongst other functions it helps me to decide which risk factors to accept when reinvesting proceeds. it doesn't make sense to accept any risk if existing income covers expenses comfortably.

having said so i would like to add that nowadays keeping cash in a bank or goldbars buried in the backyard or under the mattress is a considerable risk too

[midas]

if this story have come out earlier this month I would honestly have thought it was an April fool's joke!

Who are they kidding? the world is just one big drugs party where they keep passing the bong back and forth between each other

Japan Will Provide $60 Billion to Expand IMF’s Resources

http://www.bloomberg...sources-1-.html

Edited April 17, 2012 by midas

[899cc]

if this story have come out earlier this month I would honestly have thought it was an April fool's joke!

Who are they kidding? the world is just one big drugs party where they keep passing the bong back and forth between each other

Japan Will Provide $60 Billion to Expand IMF’s Resources

http://www.bloomberg...sources-1-.html

+1 Bored Now..................

[letitbe]

Printing to keep rates low cannot go on forever ..

it probably can while those putting faith into fiat money paying negative interest. Only three ways out inflate away or debase currency or simply dont pay debt. Best solution IMO would be to just not pay debt. After all what could anyone do if USA or any major country simply said were not paying out debt. greece should have done it years ago. Those in non real assets will loose it all but they are loosing it anyway in a slow drip drip way. I bet bankers and rest of parasites are not holding cash with their obscene bonus's. Most people still keep their savings in fiat money hoping against hope that one day the mess will be sorted out before they loose it all. If people woke up to real facts they will desert fiat money in droves and seek any real asset be in land property gold silver or even stocks in largest corporations. Im expecting my family and as long as im alive to have to go through a long long period of riding it out before world gets back to sanity. While you cant eat gold or silver even if it falls by 50% in real terms its always going to hold some value and unless world totally collapses into complete anarchy you will always be able to swap your gold or silver for some food and if your clever enough probably for real things like property land or shares at bargain prices.

[12DrinkMore]

While I agree with you in theory, you are missing an important aspect that is pushing up the prices of necessities. By bailing out the banks and keeping them solvent from the real estate fiasco, the Fed and the US government are enabling the masses to default on their loans without fear of being evicted. The money saved from defaults on housing is giving people the cash they need to continue purchasing the necessities of life...namely food and fuel.

There are not "masses" defaulting on their loans. The vast majority are still paying off their mortgages, even though some 20% of them are "underwater". There are possibly a very few percent who have now defaulted and still are occupying their houses. Essentially living rent-free. But certainly not on a large scale.

One reason for easing the banks' liquidity issues was to prevent a fire-sale of assets, sending the housing market into oblivion and causing more banks to declare insolvency.

That is why these areas are rising at 10+% while core inflation remains stagnant.

The price rises are, IMO, not driven by excess demand due to people having more cash and driving up prices but by supply side costs in energy, fertiliser and the rising costs of imports due to the USD falling.

So the money being given to the banks is filtering into the economy indirectly, and it will likely continue to do so as more and more people find themselves on the wrong side of the poverty line.

The alternative, which fits economic theory nicely, is that if the Fed wasn't so generous, millions more would prioritize shelter over food and fuel, and go hungry rather than being homeless. Eventually, they would die either from starvation or exposure, but they would die. Thus relieving the pressure on necessary resources and allowing commodity prices to find a lower equilibrium.

I am not saying that I wish the government would do that. In fact, I think the proper thing to do is not the limited categories of double digit inflation they are supporting today, but massive inflation all around. It is the end game anyway, as economic growth can not be revived given the realities of peak oil and energy depletion. The sooner we reset the entire system, the sooner we will be able to find a new equilibrium at a lower level of economic complexity.

I read recently some 40% of food in the States is wasted. Clearly another huge percentage finds itself laid down as fat around the massively obese population. I think there are huge savings to be made before starvation hits the US of A.

Massive inflation all around is

1. Not a viable option, it destroys the working and middle classes and moves the assets and wealth of the country to the rich.

2. Not possible in the current economic climate.

3. The Bernank certainly has a lever or two to prevent it.

[12DrinkMore]

Printing to keep rates low cannot go on forever ..

it probably can while those putting faith into fiat money paying negative interest. Only three ways out inflate away or debase currency or simply dont pay debt. Best solution IMO would be to just not pay debt. After all what could anyone do if USA or any major country simply said were not paying out debt. greece should have done it years ago. Those in non real assets will loose it all but they are loosing it anyway in a slow drip drip way. I bet bankers and rest of parasites are not holding cash with their obscene bonus's. Most people still keep their savings in fiat money hoping against hope that one day the mess will be sorted out before they loose it all. If people woke up to real facts they will desert fiat money in droves and seek any real asset be in land property gold silver or even stocks in largest corporations. Im expecting my family and as long as im alive to have to go through a long long period of riding it out before world gets back to sanity. While you cant eat gold or silver even if it falls by 50% in real terms its always going to hold some value and unless world totally collapses into complete anarchy you will always be able to swap your gold or silver for some food and if your clever enough probably for real things like property land or shares at bargain prices.

There is absolutely no chance of the US of A not paying off the debt. The Bernank has the lever. As does Merv in the UK.

The Greeks do not have a lever to lean on. None whatsoever. They cannot print out the EUR but have to beg, borrow, steal or default.

They have gone through the phases

1. Borrow

2. Beg

3. Steal by semi-default

now we have

4. Default and leave.

The other option of, er, actually earning EUR and paying taxes somehow doesn't fit too well onto the Greek psyche. Zorba explains it all. Let's have a dance with Merkel.

Most people do not seem to have any savings whatsoever.

But here we go, on schedule.....

http://www.smithsoni...-of-Growth.html

Edited April 18, 2012 by 12DrinkMore

[ronz28]

Online security remains a problem as NYC/Russian hacker ring succeeded in hacking into retail brokerage accounts and executing sham trades. They stole from online trading accounts at Scottrade, E*Trade, Fidelity, Schwab and other brokerage firms. Members of the ring first gained unauthorized access to the online accounts and changed the phone numbers and email addresses on file to prevent notice of unauthorized trading from going to the victims.

http://www.financial-planning.com/news/hacker-ring-online-brokerage-accounts-2678401-1.html

[mccw]

Online security remains a problem as NYC/Russian hacker ring succeeded in hacking into retail brokerage accounts and executing sham trades. They stole from online trading accounts at Scottrade, E*Trade, Fidelity, Schwab and other brokerage firms. Members of the ring first gained unauthorized access to the online accounts and changed the phone numbers and email addresses on file to prevent notice of unauthorized trading from going to the victims.

http://www.financial-planning.com/news/hacker-ring-online-brokerage-accounts-2678401-1.html

Another reason I've decided to stay out of all thats not physical.

If its not hackers theres a good chance the company itself might loose it at the casino or just plain rob you it seems.

[midas]

if this story have come out earlier this month I would honestly have thought it was an April fool's joke!

Who are they kidding? the world is just one big drugs party where they keep passing the bong back and forth between each other

Japan Will Provide $60 Billion to Expand IMF’s Resources

http://www.bloomberg...sources-1-.html

+1 Bored Now..................

an even clearer example ......

“The banks are going to lend the fund that is supposed to bail out the banks the money to bail them out.”

[..] every time a bank merger is consummated, it turns out that the losses of the weaker banks are far greater than was previously assumed (or rather, admitted to). As a result, Spain's deposit guarantee fund (DGF) has run out of money.

I predict that statement will apply globally ...................

http://theautomatice...al-realism.html

Edited April 19, 2012 by midas

[12DrinkMore]

Ellen Brown pointing out that since Canada let the international banking cartel influence its policies, public debt has ballooned,

A key objective of the Committee was to maintain “monetary and financial stability.” To achieve that goal, the Committee discouraged borrowing from a nation’s own central bank interest-free, and encouraged borrowing instead from private creditors, all in the name of “maintaining the stability of the currency.”

http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/canada.php

Why, indeed, are we all in debt to the dam_n bankers?

Especially the sovereign countries that have the right to issue their own cash?

Is it

"In the name of maintaining the stability of the currency"

or under the threat

"if you don't join the system you will be penalised"?

[flying]

Why, indeed, are we all in debt to the dam_n bankers?

Especially the sovereign countries that have the right to issue their own cash?

Is it

"In the name of maintaining the stability of the currency"

or under the threat

"if you don't join the system you will be penalized"?

Iran & Libya come to mind....

Was it not amazing that during the helpful hand given to the Libyan Rebels they had time

to create a new Central Bank?

Amazing multi taskers those rebels eh?

[12DrinkMore]

Why, indeed, are we all in debt to the dam_n bankers?

Especially the sovereign countries that have the right to issue their own cash?

Is it

"In the name of maintaining the stability of the currency"

or under the threat

"if you don't join the system you will be penalized"?

Iran & Libya come to mind....

Was it not amazing that during the helpful hand given to the Libyan Rebels they had time

to create a new Central Bank?

Amazing multi taskers those rebels eh?

Yep, those bankers are always looking to keep the debt issuing cartel going.

No debt = no money = collapsed economies

[Naam]

if this story have come out earlier this month I would honestly have thought it was an April fool's joke!

Who are they kidding? the world is just one big drugs party where they keep passing the bong back and forth between each other

Japan Will Provide $60 Billion to Expand IMF’s Resources

http://www.bloomberg...sources-1-.html

you might not like it Midas, but the "joke" is in the meantime 430 billion dollars heavy and Churchill might not like that Lagarde's "pathetic begging" was successful after only a few days.

next rant please... which will disappear without any trace like a lukeworm fart. reason: the polit and finance gangsters have the whole world including you, Churchill and me over a barrel and there's not much we can do about it except... we could form our own financial entity, swear solemn oaths that we abhor all fiat paper and deal with intrinsic goods and services only between ourselves. we also could invite Flying and 12 to join us.

what comes into my mind are free roaming healthy rhinos in rice fields which can be exchanged against a fixed price of 7½ pounds of gold Dirhams and homebrewed Lao Khao, a 5 liter container for ¼ silver Dinar.

[midas]

if this story have come out earlier this month I would honestly have thought it was an April fool's joke!

Who are they kidding? the world is just one big drugs party where they keep passing the bong back and forth between each other

Japan Will Provide $60 Billion to Expand IMF’s Resources

http://www.bloomberg...sources-1-.html

you might not like it Midas, but the "joke" is in the meantime 430 billion dollars heavy and Churchill might not like that Lagarde's "pathetic begging" was successful after only a few days.

next rant please... which will disappear without any trace like a lukeworm fart. reason: the polit and finance gangsters have the whole world including you, Churchill and me over a barrel and there's not much we can do about it except... we could form our own financial entity, swear solemn oaths that we abhor all fiat paper and deal with intrinsic goods and services only between ourselves. we also could invite Flying and 12 to join us.

what comes into my mind are free roaming healthy rhinos in rice fields which can be exchanged against a fixed price of 7½ pounds of gold Dirhams and homebrewed Lao Khao, a 5 liter container for ¼ silver Dinar.

" the polit and finance gangsters have the whole world including you, Churchill and me over a barrel and there's not much we can do about it"

oh I don't believe that for 1 min they may appear to be in control at this point in time but with falling asset values,rising public debt and

shrinking tax revenues how long can the Emperor look like he is dressed? not as long as some people think

Edited April 22, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

" the polit and finance gangsters have the whole world including you, Churchill and me over a barrel and there's not much we can do about it"

oh I don't believe that for 1 min they may appear to be in control at this point in time but with falling asset values,rising public debt and shrinking tax revenues how long can the Emperor look like he is dressed? not as long as some people think

once the need arises the "emperor" will try and do his best to take your and my clothes to cover his nakedness.

[midas]

" the polit and finance gangsters have the whole world including you, Churchill and me over a barrel and there's not much we can do about it"

oh I don't believe that for 1 min they may appear to be in control at this point in time but with falling asset values,rising public debt and shrinking tax revenues how long can the Emperor look like he is dressed? not as long as some people think

once the need arises the "emperor" will try and do his best to take your and my clothes to cover his nakedness.

and the result will be the total annihilation of entrepreneurial spirit. In the end people will say why should I bother

if I'm going to get even higher taxation?

Then watch the unemployment rate creep even further. it is a slow death spiral

Edited April 22, 2012 by midas

[12DrinkMore]

next rant please... which will disappear without any trace like a lukeworm fart. reason: the polit and finance gangsters have the whole world including you, Churchill and me over a barrel and there's not much we can do about it except... we could form our own financial entity, swear solemn oaths that we abhor all fiat paper and deal with intrinsic goods and services only between ourselves. we also could invite Flying and 12 to join us.

what comes into my mind are free roaming healthy rhinos in rice fields which can be exchanged against a fixed price of 7½ pounds of gold Dirhams and homebrewed Lao Khao, a 5 liter container for ¼ silver Dinar.

Actually I don't mind the fiat paper one bit. If anybody has a problem, then just send it right over. You see, its one of my hobbies, collecting this intrinsically worthless paper stuff. And as long as I can still go and have somebody exchange beer, food and fuel for these bits of paper, I reckon that's just fine.

Rhinos are not a good choice. They are a protected species, so I couldn't slaughter them and sell off the bits. And what happens when they become sick? My worth in gold Dirhams would suddenly fall off a cliff.

So sorry Naam, I recognise I'm in the system and by and large have to remain in it.

[12DrinkMore]

and the result will be the total annihilation of entrepreneurial spirit. In the end people will say why should I bother

if I'm going to get even higher taxation?

Then watch the unemployment rate creep even further. it is a slow death spiral

It's not just taxation.

The jobs simply are no longer there.

50% youth unemployment in Spain and Greece.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2130929/One-million-jobs-young-people-lost-2007-Labour-accused-hiding-scale-unemployment-watch.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

1,000,000 young people jobs lost in the UK

And look at the quality of job applicants

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/jennymccartney/9218077/Sometimes-a-hoodie-just-doesnt-fit-the-bill-for-a-boss.html

"hoodies with attitude"

I wonder if their are hoodies without attitudes?

Yeah I would take an experience eastern European keen to work before employing a British "Yoof".

[midas]

next rant please... which will disappear without any trace like a lukeworm fart. reason: the polit and finance gangsters have the whole world including you, Churchill and me over a barrel and there's not much we can do about it except... we could form our own financial entity, swear solemn oaths that we abhor all fiat paper and deal with intrinsic goods and services only between ourselves. we also could invite Flying and 12 to join us.

what comes into my mind are free roaming healthy rhinos in rice fields which can be exchanged against a fixed price of 7½ pounds of gold Dirhams and homebrewed Lao Khao, a 5 liter container for ¼ silver Dinar.

Actually I don't mind the fiat paper one bit. If anybody has a problem, then just send it right over. You see, its one of my hobbies, collecting this intrinsically worthless paper stuff. And as long as I can still go and have somebody exchange beer, food and fuel for these bits of paper, I reckon that's just fine.

Rhinos are not a good choice. They are a protected species, so I couldn't slaughter them and sell off the bits. And what happens when they become sick? My worth in gold Dirhams would suddenly fall off a cliff.

So sorry Naam, I recognise I'm in the system and by and large have to remain in it.

" You see, its one of my hobbies, collecting this intrinsically worthless paper stuff "

well in that case 12 you can even build a house made from it like this guy

and this guy is even broke so for someone as affluent as you you can build

a mansion!

Broke Irishman Builds Billion-Euro House — Out of Shredded Bills

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/28/broke-irishman-builds-billion-euro-house-out-of-shredded-bills/

[12DrinkMore]

John Kay, Visiting Professor, London School of Economics and Political Science, speaking at the breakout panel entitled "How Can We Create a Financial System That Is Socially Useful?" at the Institute for New Economic Thinking's (INET) Paradigm Lost Conference in Berlin. April 14, 2012.

[12DrinkMore]

" You see, its one of my hobbies, collecting this intrinsically worthless paper stuff "

well in that case 12 you can even build a house made from it like this guy

and this guy is even broke so for someone as affluent as you you can build

a mansion!

Broke Irishman Builds Billion-Euro House — Out of Shredded Bills

http://newsfeed.time...shredded-bills/

Maybe they can start employing the yoof of Spain, Greece, Ireland and the rest to sticking the bits back together again?

[mccw]

and the result will be the total annihilation of entrepreneurial spirit. In the end people will say why should I bother

if I'm going to get even higher taxation?

Then watch the unemployment rate creep even further. it is a slow death spiral

It's not just taxation.

The jobs simply are no longer there.

50% youth unemployment in Spain and Greece.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2130929/One-million-jobs-young-people-lost-2007-Labour-accused-hiding-scale-unemployment-watch.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

1,000,000 young people jobs lost in the UK

And look at the quality of job applicants

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/jennymccartney/9218077/Sometimes-a-hoodie-just-doesnt-fit-the-bill-for-a-boss.html

"hoodies with attitude"

I wonder if their are hoodies without attitudes?

Yeah I would take an experience eastern European keen to work before employing a British "Yoof".

I am no longer prepared to rent rooms to English , let alone contemplate employing any.

Only once the benefit stops flowing will the culture of entitlement and laziness change.

[Naam]

Actually I don't mind the fiat paper one bit. If anybody has a problem, then just send it right over. You see, its one of my hobbies, collecting this intrinsically worthless paper stuff. And as long as I can still go and have somebody exchange beer, food and fuel for these bits of paper, I reckon that's just fine.

Rhinos are not a good choice. They are a protected species, so I couldn't slaughter them and sell off the bits. And what happens when they become sick? My worth in gold Dirhams would suddenly fall off a cliff.

So sorry Naam, I recognise I'm in the system and by and large have to remain in it.

nobody has a problem with fiat paper 12! neither the resident fiat haters nor the odd clowns who appear sporadically here to present a little worthless fiat wisdom. the situation would of course change should Midas decide to retire in Kelantan, embrace Islam and trades free roaming organic goats against chicken reared with organic brown rice against halal Dirhams and Dinars. needless to mention that he will also pay his "zakat" in coins made of precious metals.

[midas]

Actually I don't mind the fiat paper one bit. If anybody has a problem, then just send it right over. You see, its one of my hobbies, collecting this intrinsically worthless paper stuff. And as long as I can still go and have somebody exchange beer, food and fuel for these bits of paper, I reckon that's just fine.

Rhinos are not a good choice. They are a protected species, so I couldn't slaughter them and sell off the bits. And what happens when they become sick? My worth in gold Dirhams would suddenly fall off a cliff.

So sorry Naam, I recognise I'm in the system and by and large have to remain in it.

nobody has a problem with fiat paper 12! neither the resident fiat haters nor the odd clowns who appear sporadically here to present a little worthless fiat wisdom. the situation would of course change should Midas decide to retire in Kelantan, embrace Islam and trades free roaming organic goats against chicken reared with organic brown rice against halal Dirhams and Dinars. needless to mention that he will also pay his "zakat" in coins made of precious metals.

alternatively people come to realise "In God We Trust" on the back of a $20 was the biggest con in history

Edited April 23, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

alternatively people come to realise "In God We Trust" on the back of a $20 was the biggest con in history

let me add my irrelevant comment: "it is 0915hrs, outside temperature 29.6ºC, relative humidity 74%, inside temperature 26.2ºC, relative humidity 62%."

Edited April 23, 2012 by Naam

[chiang mai]

Actually I don't mind the fiat paper one bit. If anybody has a problem, then just send it right over. You see, its one of my hobbies, collecting this intrinsically worthless paper stuff. And as long as I can still go and have somebody exchange beer, food and fuel for these bits of paper, I reckon that's just fine.

Rhinos are not a good choice. They are a protected species, so I couldn't slaughter them and sell off the bits. And what happens when they become sick? My worth in gold Dirhams would suddenly fall off a cliff.

So sorry Naam, I recognise I'm in the system and by and large have to remain in it.

nobody has a problem with fiat paper 12! neither the resident fiat haters nor the odd clowns who appear sporadically here to present a little worthless fiat wisdom. the situation would of course change should Midas decide to retire in Kelantan, embrace Islam and trades free roaming organic goats against chicken reared with organic brown rice against halal Dirhams and Dinars. needless to mention that he will also pay his "zakat" in coins made of precious metals.

alternatively people come to realise "In God We Trust" on the back of a $20 was the biggest con in history

Yes, but a slogan such as, "in Goldmans we trust" just isn't as catchy.

[midas]

Actually I don't mind the fiat paper one bit. If anybody has a problem, then just send it right over. You see, its one of my hobbies, collecting this intrinsically worthless paper stuff. And as long as I can still go and have somebody exchange beer, food and fuel for these bits of paper, I reckon that's just fine.

Rhinos are not a good choice. They are a protected species, so I couldn't slaughter them and sell off the bits. And what happens when they become sick? My worth in gold Dirhams would suddenly fall off a cliff.

So sorry Naam, I recognise I'm in the system and by and large have to remain in it.

nobody has a problem with fiat paper 12! neither the resident fiat haters nor the odd clowns who appear sporadically here to present a little worthless fiat wisdom. the situation would of course change should Midas decide to retire in Kelantan, embrace Islam and trades free roaming organic goats against chicken reared with organic brown rice against halal Dirhams and Dinars. needless to mention that he will also pay his "zakat" in coins made of precious metals.

alternatively people come to realise "In God We Trust" on the back of a $20 was the biggest con in history

Yes, but a slogan such as, "in Goldmans we trust" just isn't as catchy.

[midas]

All Aboard the Auschwitz Express: “People Don’t Want to Believe It”

" One of our employees… She’s German… when she was about sixteen years old she said to her grandmother, “How come nobody stopped what was happening with Hitler. How come they didn’t stop them from taking the Jews away?”

And the grandmother said to her, “You don’t understand. It wasn’t one day that we woke up and all of our rights were taken away from us. They took them away from us slowly. And then one day you couldn’t speak out, because if you spoke out you were dead.”

And that’s what’s going on in this country. It’s like the frog in boiling water.

http://www.shtfplan.com/gerald-celente/all-aboard-the-auschwitz-express-people-dont-want-to-believe-it_04172012

How much more do people need to have? "