Financial Crisis

[jpinx]

Europe can not allow a collapse of banking, and the powers-that-be have done and will continue to do everything and anything to keep it afloat. Greece has vastly greater problems than the EU as a whole, but even Germany's hard-nosed attitude has not been able to allow it to see Greece fail because they know the domino effect will be totally uncontrollable.

The newly inked agreement on unified banking control is what the original architects of the euro had designed, but it was ignored by the politicans at the time. It has taken a deal of brinkmanship to get the european banking system under control again and now we have to wait for the the various stages to have effect, but for sure the euro and the european banking system will survive. The worst is over and now they are on the slow climb up the slippery slope again. The elections in 2014 will be the next hurdle, but if the reformers get a mandate the recovery might well speed up a lot.

Compared to USA where the President and his party are blocked and stymied at every turn of financial events and they have had to resort to "emergency" powers just to pay governments wages, I think it is reasonable to say that the performance and outlook of the EU taken as whole is better. The Chinese have not played their hand yet and USA should be worried because the Chinese are masters at playing poker,,,,,,

Edited December 15, 2012 by jpinx

[midas]

The Price Of “Collective Trauma”: Greece At The Brink of Civil War

These men take their anger to their families, and their sons take that anger to the street. Hence the growing number of violent gangs that attack minorities. The will to survive in humans is enormous, Pieper points out, and so humans are able to overcome even incredibly difficult situations. To do that, they need a functioning society with real structures and safety nets. But in Greece, society has been hollowed out for years to the point where it is collapsing.

“In such a dramatic situation as can be observed in Greece, the human being becomes a sort of predator, only seeing himself and his own survival,” Pieper said. “Sheer necessity pushes him into irrationality, and in the worst case, this irrationality transcends into criminality.” At that stage in society, he said, “solidarity is replaced by selfishness.”

And so he wondered, “how much this society can endure before it explodes.” Greece is on the brink of civil war, he went on, and it seems only a question of time before the collective desperation of the people erupts into violence and spreads across the country. A ricocheting indictment of the euro bailout policies.

http://www.testoster...k-of-civil.html

Edited December 16, 2012 by midas

[midas]

Number of guns and gun owners in USA

Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun(that's about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million.

and that dear children is the reason why senile ignorants, residing in northern Thailand, fear the results of a global financial crisis and soil their underwear.

I don't know about that but another shopping mall shooting and another school / educational establishment shooting all in the space of less than a week and during “ normal “ times does not bode well for how a percentage of the population could act if there was some kind of systemic failure?

Edited December 16, 2012 by midas

[Naam]

the situation in Greece is indeed deteriorating while investors who bought distressed Greek debt are celebrating 100-150% profits within less than 6 months. but with every day passing the probability of a military coup increases. Greece's miltitary ruled the country with an iron hand from 1967 till 1974 and should two factions (with different agendas) within the military emerge than there will be civil war.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Naam

[JSixpack]

USA should be worried because the Chinese are masters at playing poker,,,,,,

Yeah, yeah. SO scary.

[Rancid]

the situation in Greece is indeed deteriorating while investors who bought distressed Greek debt are celebrating 100-150% profits within less than 6 months. but with every day passing the probability of a military coup increases. Greece's miltitary ruled the country with an iron hand from 1967 till 1974 and should two factions (with different agendas) within the military emerge than there will be civil war.

Apparently like is getting pretty grim in Greece for many people, hospitals turming people away, suicides way up, unemployment etc. And lets face it the bailouts they supposedly get they don't actually get, the money goes straight to the big banks to pay off the debts they set up. It will be an interesting dance, can the EU manipulate the population indefinitely or does the point comes where things are just too bad and the real violence erupts. Personallly think they should have left the Euro long ago, Iceland seems to be doing much better than the PIGS that went for the so-called bail out.

[mccw]

Who thinks EU would allow a military take over with in a member state or would we see "peacekeepers" deployed, leading to even full blown war in Europe?

[Naam]

Who thinks EU would allow a military take over with in a member state or would we see "peacekeepers" deployed, leading to even full blown war in Europe?

it is not up to the EU to allow or disallow a military coup in one of its member states. besides, Greece is a member of NATO as are more than a dozen EU countries. the EU itself does not have any armed forces.

[mccw]

Who thinks EU would allow a military take over with in a member state or would we see "peacekeepers" deployed, leading to even full blown war in Europe?

it is not up to the EU to allow or disallow a military coup in one of its member states. besides, Greece is a member of NATO as are more than a dozen EU countries. the EU itself does not have any armed forces.

Not yet anyway

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9750801/David-Cameron-we-will-never-join-a-European-army.html

But France has shown its willingness to stick her nose in to several countries just south of Greece. All the condemnation of military rulers epse where by Europe and interventions would give them a precedent. I could imagine them trying to bill / the war as the defence of democracy in Europe and it sliding at NATO as an internal EU problem since its now basically a USofEurozone.

[mccw]

British, French and German invasion under the "democracy and freedom" banner.

[chiang mai]

And on a slightly different note, Abe (Japan) has just vowed to press the printy printy button for as long and as hard as he can, Ben is onboard with the idea and Mark Carney says that's what the UK needs, will I be able to afford a plate of Cow Pad in five years I wonder!

[mccw]

And on a slightly different note, Abe (Japan) has just vowed to press the printy printy button for as long and as hard as he can, Ben is onboard with the idea and Mark Carney says that's what the UK needs, will I be able to afford a plate of Cow Pad in five years I wonder!

Seems like yingluck would like to get in a new BoT head to get the presses roling here aswell though so who knows. 5 years from now could be just as easily 1gbp to 80 bht or 30bht way depending how extreme which ever governments gets; maybe even worse.

[mccw]

I would say this should be bullish for gold but we know how gold prices are manipulated so not expect anything much until deliveries aren't accepted and the paper markets break down. I think it's coming some time but when is anyone's guess.

[chiang mai]

Forgive my niavety in these matters but surely if everyone presses the printy printy button, doesn't that defeat the object of the exersise?

[mccw]

If all currency goes down together even if reletive rates remain similar between them I think it's enevitable that the value against that cow pad etc will be down ; purchasing power of money down I mean across the board. The new steps in to strait printing with out the guise of it as debt to be repaid could really unleash the effects these coming 5 years more dramatically than the last 5.

[midas]

Forgive my niavety in these matters but surely if everyone presses the printy printy button, doesn't that defeat the object of the exersise?

Huxley feared that our desires would ruin us. Orwell was afraid that what we fear would ruin us. The oligarchs have pushed the Huxley vision to its sustainable limit. The avarice and greed of these invisible power brokers has devoured the vast resources of the nation. These psychopaths weren’t satisfied with siphoning off most of the wealth of the country. They wanted it all and wrecked the global economy in their odious pursuit of mammon. We are now in the death throes of the most decadent, delusional, debt engendered era in the long history of mankind. Those in power realize it is slipping away. Their “solutions” reflect an air of desperation. Their propaganda efforts have been redoubled. As more middle class workers lose their jobs, more young people graduate from college with tens of thousands in student loan debt and a future of dramatically reduced expectations, and more people are driven beyond their breaking point, this materialistic shroud of happiness will be torn asunder. Anger is building like a lava dome within a volcano. A critical thinking minority are questioning the motives of those in power. The unsustainability of our economic paradigm is certain. The seeds of revolution are being sown. Our society is only fantasy. The wall is too high. It will be up to an irate tireless minority of freedom minded citizens to tear down the wall. The alternative is to allow the worms to eat into our brains.

[chiang mai]

Forgive my niavety in these matters but surely if everyone presses the printy printy button, doesn't that defeat the object of the exersise?

Huxley feared that our desires would ruin us. Orwell was afraid that what we fear would ruin us. The oligarchs have pushed the Huxley vision to its sustainable limit. The avarice and greed of these invisible power brokers has devoured the vast resources of the nation. These psychopaths weren’t satisfied with siphoning off most of the wealth of the country. They wanted it all and wrecked the global economy in their odious pursuit of mammon. We are now in the death throes of the most decadent, delusional, debt engendered era in the long history of mankind. Those in power realize it is slipping away. Their “solutions” reflect an air of desperation. Their propaganda efforts have been redoubled. As more middle class workers lose their jobs, more young people graduate from college with tens of thousands in student loan debt and a future of dramatically reduced expectations, and more people are driven beyond their breaking point, this materialistic shroud of happiness will be torn asunder. Anger is building like a lava dome within a volcano. A critical thinking minority are questioning the motives of those in power. The unsustainability of our economic paradigm is certain. The seeds of revolution are being sown. Our society is only fantasy. The wall is too high. It will be up to an irate tireless minority of freedom minded citizens to tear down the wall. The alternative is to allow the worms to eat into our brains.

Hmm, if the choice is not being able to afford a plate of cow pad or the worms in the brain, I choose the worms.

[yoshiwara]

If all currency goes down together even if reletive rates remain similar between them I think it's enevitable that the value against that cow pad etc will be down ; purchasing power of money down I mean across the board. The new steps in to strait printing with out the guise of it as debt to be repaid could really unleash the effects these coming 5 years more dramatically than the last 5.

Maybe in your Mad Max movie scenario.

[yoshiwara]

S+P upgrades Greece to B-

[mccw]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20757382

I didn't know Britain owned this "Queen Elisebeth Land" / Antarctic territory. Could be a lot of resources there, and in territorial waters, to be had after the ice melts a bit. With that and the Falklands UK prospects might not be so dire resource wealth wise longer side of long term as first glance at north sea picture may indicate.

[yoshiwara]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-20757382

I didn't know Britain owned this "Queen Elisebeth Land" / Antarctic territory. Could be a lot of resources there, and in territorial waters, to be had after the ice melts a bit. With that and the Falklands UK prospects might not be so dire resource wealth wise longer side of long term as first glance at north sea picture may indicate.

FOGL shareholders will be pleased to hear that.

[waza]

i am not sure if this has anything to do with the GFC but it is a co-incidence..........

Libor scandal grows as the fathers of two mass murderers were to testify

............Both fathers of the shooters were allegedly expected to testify in the Libor scandal that rocked the banking world in June.

The father of Newtown Connecticut school shooter Adam Lanza is Peter Lanza who is a VP and Tax Director at GE Financial. The father of Aurora Colorado movie theater shooter James Holmes is Robert Holmes, the lead scientist for the credit score company.

http://www.examiner.com/article/libor-scandal-grows-as-the-fathers-of-two-mass-murderers-were-to-testify

[midas]

S+P upgrades Greece to B-

In other news.... Bernie Madoff leaves jail and the ratings agencies bless his new venture with AAA ratings.

Edited December 19, 2012 by midas

[jpinx]

S+P upgrades Greece to B-

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-20757382

I didn't know Britain owned this "Queen Elisebeth Land" / Antarctic territory. Could be a lot of resources there, and in territorial waters, to be had after the ice melts a bit. With that and the Falklands UK prospects might not be so dire resource wealth wise longer side of long term as first glance at north sea picture may indicate.

i am not sure if this has anything to do with the GFC but it is a co-incidence..........

Libor scandal grows as the fathers of two mass murderers were to testify

............Both fathers of the shooters were allegedly expected to testify in the Libor scandal that rocked the banking world in June.

The father of Newtown Connecticut school shooter Adam Lanza is Peter Lanza who is a VP and Tax Director at GE Financial. The father of Aurora Colorado movie theater shooter James Holmes is Robert Holmes, the lead scientist for the credit score company.

http://www.examiner....were-to-testify

Good Grief Charlie Brown !!!!!

[mania]

i am not sure if this has anything to do with the GFC but it is a co-incidence..........

Libor scandal grows as the fathers of two mass murderers were to testify

............Both fathers of the shooters were allegedly expected to testify in the Libor scandal that rocked the banking world in June.

The father of Newtown Connecticut school shooter Adam Lanza is Peter Lanza who is a VP and Tax Director at GE Financial. The father of Aurora Colorado movie theater shooter James Holmes is Robert Holmes, the lead scientist for the credit score company.

http://www.examiner....were-to-testify

That is beyond the beyond of weird,odd creepy,coincidental

Edited December 19, 2012 by mania

[yoshiwara]

S+P upgrades Greece to B-

In other news.... Bernie Madoff leaves jail and the ratings agencies bless his new venture with AAA ratings.

One is true. The others aren't. The Greek upgrade was 6 notches up the scale where they previously were.

From selective default to outlook stable.

[mccw]

S+P upgrades Greece to B-

In other news.... Bernie Madoff leaves jail and the ratings agencies bless his new venture with AAA ratings.

One is true. The others aren't. The Greek upgrade was 6 notches up the scale where they previously were.

From selective default to outlook stable.

Amid the continuing downward economic spiral, Standard & Poor's ratings agency has upgraded Greeces credit grade to a B-, the highest since June 2011, although the bonds are still at junk status.

The backing of the Eurozone countries to keep Greece afloat and Athens determination to pursue harsh austerity measures in the face of popular rejection has prompted the agency to increase countrys credit worthiness by six notches with a stable outlook.

The stable outlook balances our view of eurozone member states' determination to support Greece's Eurozone membership and the Greek government's commitment to a fiscal and structural adjustment against the economic and political challenges of doing so, the agency said in a statement.

But the optimism was dimmed as Greece's government bonds were held at a non-investment grade, which theyve been since 2010.

Tuesday's promotion follows Athens completion of a debt buyback program with private bondholders and a decision by Eurozone finance ministers to release an additional 49.1bn in aid.

The bond buyback was successfully accomplished last week, and has reduced the country's debt by 20 billion.

A total of 240bn has been allocated for Greece in financial aid. As of now, 149bn from the Eurozone and the International Monetary Fund has been distributed to Athens.

The poverty stricken country received the first tranche of the bailout two and a half years ago, but concerns remain the countrys massive debt burden may still force it out of Europes monetary union.

In 2013, Greece is about to confront its sixth consecutive year of recession. The countrys debt to GDP ratio is expected to reach 190 percent, with unemployment of over 25%.

Tuesdays S&P's Greek assessment is the highest among the three main rating agencies. Fitch has Greece rated at one notch above default, while Moody's lists Greece in default.

-rt app

[mccw]

Spain defaulting, oil falling to $50 a barrel and the DAX plunging 33% - Saxo Banks outrageous predictions for 2013 are like an economic Apocalypse.

The Danish investment bank has published its unofficial predictions for the next year that are unlikely, but will send shock waves through the global markets if they happen. Bank experts say a financial catastrophe and war like consequences are closer than it seems.

According to Chief Economist Steen Jacobsen the banks main concern is the unprecedented combination of smug serenity and high risks in macroeconomic policies as the rapid growth of social tension threatens political and financial stability.

We expect the crisis to be like a forest fire fast and furious it will set the conditions for moving forward, as it always was: the real changes will be made only in exceptional circumstances after the war, Jacobsen says.

He says, from the economic point of view, the world is close to wartime conditions as the burden of debt and fiscal deficits in western countries have reached levels similar to the end of World War II.

The authors of the report predict, next year society will move toward radical movements as both the ultra-right and ultra-left find supporters appealing to feelings of desperate voters who have nothing to lose.

Current major political tendencies are empty, Jakobsen says. He adds that "Occupy Wall Street movement was just the beginning of the process.

Saxo Bank predicts, Germanys leading index the DAX could fall by 33% to 5000 points because of the economic slowdown in China, which will stop industrial growth in Germany.

The price of oil could plummet to $50 per barrel on growth of fuel production in the US. The bank sees gold losing its defensive nature and falling to $1,200 per ounce.

Though many prefer to be skeptical about the report, some of Saxos predictions did come true in the past, Ekaterina Kondrashova from Investcafe says.

Saxo Bank outrageous forecasts usually remain forecasts only. In 2011 for example, 9 out of 10 predictions didnt come true. However, one of their predictions that yields on 30-year US T-bills would fall to 3% was correct. Anyway since it has become a tradition, Saxo Bank continues to post it annually, drawing additional publicity of the investment society and media, Kondrashova told RT.

The Saxo Bank predictions also see Spain nearing default as the Spanish economy is already in very poor condition: disposable income of more than 1.8 million people is less than 400 euros per month, and of the 47 million living in the country only 17 million are employed.

According to the report, next year the ratings agencies could downgrade Spain to "junk" status pushing government bonds yields up to 10%. Saxo Bank also forecasts that price of soy beans could skyrocket 50% and Japan may nationalize its electronic producers.

[cloudhopper]

I found this interesting -

http://sibileau.com/martin/2012/12/18/what-causes-hyperinflations-and-why-we-have-not-seen-one-yet-a-forensic-analysis-on-dead-currencies/

[midas]

S+P upgrades Greece to B-

In other news.... Bernie Madoff leaves jail and the ratings agencies bless his new venture with AAA ratings.

One is true. The others aren't. The Greek upgrade was 6 notches up the scale where they previously were.

From selective default to outlook stable.

naughty naughty Yoshiwara

you should know by now this is the " no spin zone "

I mean pinning it all on S & P for gods sake when the other rating agencies have hardly budged

no more kool aid for you !