Financial Crisis

[AlexLah]

I think during this and the other thread we found some good factual evidence of supposed fraud and cover ups for sure.

Remember in the beginning when it was said that it all was because some people defaulted on their house loans I already was screaming that they are not telling the (full) truth. Most of the revelations have been made by people that run Blogs and not the MSM which are for the most part owned by people that have similar interest as the crooks that orchestrated this scam. And don't think that it is only the US and UK government covering things up. In my home country they do the same thing and I can't think of a place where government do not cover up things. If you think that they would like the peasants to be well informed and up to date on what is being discussed and decided behind closed doors you better think twice.

One of the purposes of this thread or what it became during, is to think/present some different scenario's based on the little info we have which we cannot even say to be 100% true. So we had the ultra doom and gloom scenario and some peeps saying it was all not that bad and soon things would turn out better.

So where are we now? Are we at a starting point of a doom scenario or are we on the way out of this mess, or something in between?

Nobody really knows, at least not us the peasants. Some said the Dollar would be worth next to nothing soon but so far is doing well. Gold would rise to a 1000-2000 and even 5000 USD was mentioned here and there, well it is down and behaves like a Jojo going from 700 to 900+ in just a few months. Unemployment figures in the US a steady 6 to 8 hundred thousand is just accepted and does not really influence the stock market anymore. G 20 meeting and the fear spread by MSM that mass rioting would happen and starting the "Summer of rage" it was pretty peaceful apart from a few incidents.

So here we are left in the relative cold, not really knowing what is next and how to prepare ourselves for whatever is coming.

I have a strong feeling/clue something shocking is about to happen around June-July, what it exactly is I do not know but from the info I have gathered I know something is brewing and it won't be good.

I could go back posting some pictures and ask questions so you could connect some dot's but I know you guy's did not like that format so I will refrain from that.

[12DrinkMore]

Here's an interesting view on the bailouts

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../INR316Q4F5.DTL

Since the mid-1970s, average Americans' wages have stayed flat when adjusted for inflation. Productivity rose, profits rose, but not wages. To compensate for stagnant wages and the desire to consume more each year, Americans worked more, retired later, spouses went to work, and many burned savings. Then they started borrowing. Debt became America's growth industry.

The administration and the banks keep talking about a credit crisis, but there isn't one. Banks are lending. If you want a mortgage and can afford to pay it back, you can borrow at low rates today. You can finance a car at low rates for seven years. But most Americans don't want more debt because it is a debilitating path to poverty. The average American family already pays 14 percent of annual income in interest to banks.

To fix this fake crisis, there are fake discussions about what the government must do. The endlessly recycled plan to buy "troubled" assets isn't to get banks lending again, because they haven't stopped lending. The plan seeks for taxpayers to buy worthless assets at high prices to absorb rich investors' losses. That's it. It keeps coming back as a different plan, but with that same goal. There is no goal beyond that one goal: keep rich people from taking losses.

And my favourite quote

Obama and his economic gurus all chant, "Credit is the lifeblood of the economy," but they don't mean credit. They mean debt. Imagine the president saying, "Debt is the lifeblood of our economy. We desperately need to get more American families deeper in debt." That's what he means, and that's what these bailouts hope to do.

Seems to me to be the logical way forward, reduce the debt and live within your means.

But Brown, Obama and the rest DESPERATELY do not want this. It will substantially deplete their power and wealth, and the power and wealth of all their "friends"

So instead of playing their game, and instead of the AK47, STOP the game and pay off debts.

[Naam]

Absolutely. So here we go with a few ideas where it is heading, maybe you want to pop up some more?

- All those I speak with disagree with the rhetoric from Our Leaders, and are expecting a very difficult two years AT LEAST.

i too disagree with anybody who has wet dreams such as "in Q4/2009 we will have seen the bottom" and in my opinion "two years at least" should be "five years or more at least".

- Nobody is interested in taking out credit. Expenses are being reduced significantly and personal debt is being paid off asap.

that is not correct. it applies in part to private people but definitely not to corporations. the latter are desperate in their efforts to refinance.

- From conversations with holidaymakers here, the economic state in Sweden, Finland, Ireland, Germany, USA, UK is noticeably getting worse.

i can confirm that.

I get the impression that the rhetoric from Our Leaders is increasingly like generals urging the ignorant masses to go to war. We may not be heading into war, but to encourage already up to the hilt indebted consumers to take out more credit sounds like a call to commit mass financial suicide.

i agree.

China is, for the first time, making very loud noises about the USD and China's lack of status in G20 and the IMF. As China is the biggest creditor surely it will and must have much more to say in the future? There has already been an Asian "IMF" set up, and China is issuing it's currency in the form of swaps to several other countries. This will mean that the USD will become less significant to the world finances.

a first step was done, but presently rather insignificant.

The Middle East is also looking at introducing a new currency, which they will presumably require for payment of oil, further reducing the importance of the USD.

incorrect statement.

So I think that over the next five years there will be a significant shift in the balance of currencies.

i too expect that but don't know yet how to evaluate and make my bets.

[Naam]

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toxic debts racked up by banks and insurers could spiral to $4 trillion, new forecasts from the International Monetary Fund are set to suggest, British daily The Times reported on its website without citing sources.

The IMF said in January that it expected the deterioration in U.S.-originated assets to reach $2.2 trillion by the end of next year.

But it is understood to be looking at raising that to $3.1 trillion in its next assessment of the global economy, due to be published on April 21, the newspaper reported.

In addition, it is likely to boost that total by $900 billion for toxic assets originated in Europe and Asia, the Times said.

[PeaceBlondie]

I called the bank on April 2, to check on a deposit. They offered me a credit card. As of yesterday, I already have $7,000 more credit and the card is in the mail. What credit crunch? OTOH, the General, that former behemoth of world capitalism that dominated the auto industry for almost a century, is down to about $2 a share and GM cannot borrow seven dollars.

[Naam]

I called the bank on April 2, to check on a deposit. They offered me a credit card. As of yesterday, I already have $7,000 more credit and the card is in the mail. What credit crunch? OTOH, the General, that former behemoth of world capitalism that dominated the auto industry for almost a century, is down to about $2 a share and GM cannot borrow seven dollars.

PB, the crux has always been that those who do not need credit are offered credit galore by their banks. applications of those who need credit are denied.

[flying]

I called the bank on April 2, to check on a deposit. They offered me a credit card. As of yesterday, I already have $7,000 more credit and the card is in the mail. What credit crunch? OTOH, the General, that former behemoth of world capitalism that dominated the auto industry for almost a century, is down to about $2 a share and GM cannot borrow seven dollars.

@ what interest rate were you offered?

I have a small pile of gold & plat cards with 20k+ limits & afaik the interest is still quite low.

I do not use them. They just are sent to me on a regular basis.

As for the GM guys makes you wonder a bit though? I mean the folks who cause the probs need only say we need & they get.

These auto guys beg & beg & go to meetings & get harrased about how they arrived at said meetings & still .....................................................DENIED !!

The amounts they ask are tiny in comparison & they do in fact employ actual people

Makes me wonder quite a bit. Not that I believe any company or bank should be bailed but why some

( usually the bad ones ) & not the others? Is this union busting or?

Just curious as I have no horse in this race

Edited April 8, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

I called the bank on April 2, to check on a deposit. They offered me a credit card. As of yesterday, I already have $7,000 more credit and the card is in the mail. What credit crunch? OTOH, the General, that former behemoth of world capitalism that dominated the auto industry for almost a century, is down to about $2 a share and GM cannot borrow seven dollars.

@ what interest rate were you offered?

why would anyone in his right mind finance anything with a credit card at freaking rates?

[samuibeachcomber]

I called the bank on April 2, to check on a deposit. They offered me a credit card. As of yesterday, I already have $7,000 more credit and the card is in the mail. What credit crunch? OTOH, the General, that former behemoth of world capitalism that dominated the auto industry for almost a century, is down to about $2 a share and GM cannot borrow seven dollars.

@ what interest rate were you offered?

I have a small pile of gold & plat cards with 20k+ limits & afaik the interest is still quite low.

I do not use them. They just are sent to me on a regular basis.

As for the GM guys makes you wonder a bit though? I mean the folks who cause the probs need only say we need & they get.

These auto guys beg & beg & go to meetings & get harrased about how they arrived at said meetings & still .....................................................DENIED !!

The amounts they ask are tiny in comparison & they do in fact employ actual people

Makes me wonder quite a bit. Not that I believe any company or bank should be bailed but why some

( usually the bad ones ) & not the others? Is this union busting or?

Just curious as I have no horse in this race

I ask the same question.they are happy to bail out their mates that caused this debacle,yet are happy to hit an industry that employs thousands of "your average citizen".........time to take to the streets.maybe that's what they want.............who knows,and quite honestly i dont care.I would be very happy to see the complete demise of the USA and the UK.

[lannarebirth]

I called the bank on April 2, to check on a deposit. They offered me a credit card. As of yesterday, I already have $7,000 more credit and the card is in the mail. What credit crunch? OTOH, the General, that former behemoth of world capitalism that dominated the auto industry for almost a century, is down to about $2 a share and GM cannot borrow seven dollars.

@ what interest rate were you offered?

I have a small pile of gold & plat cards with 20k+ limits & afaik the interest is still quite low.

I do not use them. They just are sent to me on a regular basis.

As for the GM guys makes you wonder a bit though? I mean the folks who cause the probs need only say we need & they get.

These auto guys beg & beg & go to meetings & get harrased about how they arrived at said meetings & still .....................................................DENIED !!

The amounts they ask are tiny in comparison & they do in fact employ actual people

Makes me wonder quite a bit. Not that I believe any company or bank should be bailed but why some

( usually the bad ones ) & not the others? Is this union busting or?

Just curious as I have no horse in this race

I ask the same question.they are happy to bail out their mates that caused this debacle,yet are happy to hit an industry that employs thousands of "your average citizen".........time to take to the streets.maybe that's what they want.............who knows,and quite honestly i dont care.I would be very happy to see the complete demise of the USA and the UK.

You're wrong to think the US govt won't be spending an incredible sum "bailing out" these firms. They will get hit with all pension liabilities and probably some medical and unemployment benefits as well. Then the government will get their friends to invest in the lightened up company and its shares will soar. Then you could get the "rolling bankruptcies" effect, similar to the airlines. Each new bankruptcy sheds some legacy obligation, usually to the taxpayer.

[churchill]

Sounds like the few screw the majority - and so There will be violence on the streets ! -ankers .

[flying]

I called the bank on April 2, to check on a deposit. They offered me a credit card. As of yesterday, I already have $7,000 more credit and the card is in the mail. What credit crunch? OTOH, the General, that former behemoth of world capitalism that dominated the auto industry for almost a century, is down to about $2 a share and GM cannot borrow seven dollars.

@ what interest rate were you offered?

why would anyone in his right mind finance anything with a credit card at freaking rates?

Dont know as I would never finance anything on cards or otherwise.....(except for homes & Land of course that is not on cards )

Like I said I have a pile of high limit cards I never use.

But........I was curious as to what interest rate they were offering PB since it is a low limit card that I presumed was issued in TL

Edited April 8, 2009 by flying

[12DrinkMore]

i agree.

China is, for the first time, making very loud noises about the USD and China's lack of status in G20 and the IMF. As China is the biggest creditor surely it will and must have much more to say in the future? There has already been an Asian "IMF" set up, and China is issuing it's currency in the form of swaps to several other countries. This will mean that the USD will become less significant to the world finances.

a first step was done, but presently rather insignificant.

It is significant. They have made several important steps in the last few months

- Introduced a USD 100 Billion Asian IMF for the Asian countries

- Allowed trading in the Yuan for a few Asian countries

- Have now introduced currency swaps for other trading partners

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...EK2059420090327

- Announced at the G20 meeting that they want a new world currency so that their slavery to the USD can be reduced

None of these are insignificant and together they are very significant.

The Middle East is also looking at introducing a new currency, which they will presumably require for payment of oil, further reducing the importance of the USD.

incorrect statement.

This has been discussed for several years and could well happen in the next couple of years, or maybe you have seen reports stating otherwise? Here are some old articles

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0243

http://www.ameinfo.com/140073.html

The world is fed up with the USD dominance, volatility and politics behind it. This will certainly result in a major change over the next few years.

IMO the West has just embarked on a dismal journey that will last many years. Only those countries prepared to bite quickly and firmly into the bullet and bear the pain of major reforms, including reducing "big" governments, reducing living standards that were based purely on rising asset prices, rebuilding competitive and productive industries making stuff that people want to buy, will come out of this quickly. The rest will surely condemn themselves, or rather the lower and middle classes, to penury.

There are countries such as Germany, Ireland, Switzerland. Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the Scandinavian block who still have the unity, mentality and assets to succeed through their own effort and will likely do this. The US is in a class of its own, due to its size and USD dominance in world trade. Then we have the Brits who still consider themselves something special and think they have something to offer the world. Sorry, but we haven't anymore. Unless maybe football tourism can replace the financial industry in the gdp? After all, the whole of Asia follows UK football, even if the majority of players don't even come from the UK....

Or possibly the neglected topic of global warming will turn the UK into a tropical paradise :D ?

[12DrinkMore]

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toxic debts racked up by banks and insurers could spiral to $4 trillion, new forecasts from the International Monetary Fund are set to suggest, British daily The Times reported on its website without citing sources.

The IMF said in January that it expected the deterioration in U.S.-originated assets to reach $2.2 trillion by the end of next year.

But it is understood to be looking at raising that to $3.1 trillion in its next assessment of the global economy, due to be published on April 21, the newspaper reported.

In addition, it is likely to boost that total by $900 billion for toxic assets originated in Europe and Asia, the Times said.

I couldn't find an article on the Times about this, but nothing surprises me now. Except maybe that the banks in the UK, where I still have money on deposit, haven't gone tits up and destroyed me financially.

What toxic assets in Asia are being mentioned here? This is the first time I have seen a sign of this.

[12DrinkMore]

So inflation isn't ramping up for the person who need to eat?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle6058301.ece

According to the BRC, food inflation remained at 9 per cent in March, compared to increases of 7.5 per cent in January and 6.2 per cent in December, while the cost of non-food items fell by 1.5 per cent, after a 1.7 per cent drop in February.

So there we go, 9% inflation if you need to eat.

So what are these things that are reducing in price, well, I suppose non-essential bullshit items like LCDTVs, cars, telephones and all that stuff which have been purchased in gay abandon and abundance over the last few years?

I suppose we are all now suppose to eat our telephones?

and when will this start up the revolution?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle6054885.ece

I lost a big sum of money recently. It evaporated with Lehman Brothers. As it happens, I was hardly aware that I had anything deposited with this distinguished banking house (or hopelessly greedy incompetents, depending on the way you choose to look at them) until I telephoned the manager of my account at a hedge fund.

Are you next? Or is it me?

[midas]

This could be funny for a brief moment if it wasn't so bloody serious........................

The Bailout Expands To Life Insurance Firms, Money For The Deceased

There is no end to it, this process of bailing out financial institutions. Once the banks were stable, the rest of the sector was supposed to become more solid. That has not worked. Banks are not yet stable, and the life insurance industry is now stepping forward asking for relief from its plight to become part of the Great Rescue of 2009.

According to The Wall Street Journal, "The Treasury Department has decided to extend bailout funds to a number of struggling life-insurance companies, helping an industry that is a lynchpin of the U.S. financial system." No one seems to have been able to put an accurate price tag on this part of the government's assistance program, but, given the size of firms like Met Life (MET) and Prudential (PRU) the numbers are bound to be large and could wipe out what is left of the TARP funds.

http://247wallst.com/2009/04/08/the-bailou...r-the-deceased/

[12DrinkMore]

And back to China for Naam,

http://www.elliottwave.com/freeupdates/arc...e-Currency.aspx

We highlighted one such action in our recent discussion of China’s move into owning more resources as a way of diversifying out of the dollar. Now comes news of China executing more currency swaps, where they trade yuan for a local currency, thereby allowing that trading partner to use the yuan in future trade with China. These swaps then remove the need for dollars as an intermediary exchange between trading partners. The Chinese have signed six such swap agreements since November totaling $95 billion. The latest swap agreement is with Argentina.

Step by incremental step, the Chinese are solving their dollar problem, or at least ameliorating it. Those looking for that one big news event to signal the dollar’s irrelevance may be missing the trend, though such an event may still occur further out in time.

[12DrinkMore]

In an effort to constrain my (to me justified) outrage at the behaviour of Our World Leaders I am desperately trying to avoid using certain words to describe this lot

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

April 8 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission told a federal judge that Bernard Madoff need not be forced into personal bankruptcy to ensure that all his assets are used to pay those he stole from.

What the fukc (so sorry) has the SEC to say in this? Why are they trying to protect this criminal? The case is clear, and he has admitted his guilt. He is a fraud, a liar, a criminal and a thief. He should lose all his assets to repay at whatever small percentage of the losses he caused through his blatant lies and abuse of his previous position at the SEC.

Looks like its "the boys looking after the the boys". Surely the SEC should be in the dock with Madoff answering charges as to why they let him get away with his Ponzi scheme?

On a different topic,

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

“Investors seem to have confused an actual recovery with the fact that the economy isn’t detonating anymore,” Rosenberg said in an interview yesterday. “Markets right now are dangerously extrapolating an improvement in the rate of change to an improvement in the actual level of economic activity. These are two very different events.”

yep, the only way is downwards for the next couple of years.

[12DrinkMore]

This could be funny for a brief moment if it wasn't so bloody serious........................

That is totally not funny.

And we still haven't had the claims from the commercial property losses and the pension scheme losses.

Why did all this lot start coming out after the G20 meeting? And will there be an end to it, ever?

Seems to me that all we hear about is losses and bailouts using fake money.

Well, get it on, who else needs some more printed GBPs or USDs? No problem, Our World Class Leaders will sort it. Or print them. Please stand on the corner with a pickup while we try and pack it full of nice new notes.

Does anybody really think that in five years the West will be the financial power in the world? Paper notes is all that will be produced.

An interesting question,

the gold standard was removed when the price of gold rose above the value of the coin it was issued on.

the silver content of the UK currency was removed when the price of silver rose above the value of the silver that the coins contained.

What happens when the price of paper rises above the value of of the figure printed on the bank note?

HELLO ZIMBABWE, just print EXTRA ZEROS on the notes.

:D :D

[AlexLah]

Madeof seems to have funneled his money to that country that seems to not respond to UN resolutions and denies that any crimes against humans have been made during their illegal occupation. They know where most of the money went but will never disclose it. No (bad) word about the Juice, the guy Freeman was a good example how powerful those persons are.

Bush and Prince Obama have clearly acted against the law by not closing down insolvent institutes.

Here's the law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode12...31---o000-.html

Another example of moronic incompetence or gross neglect, or whatever you wanna call it.

The SEC and some other supposed watchdogs have proven to just look in the opposite direction when huge fraud (naked short selling) on the exchange have been going on for years and still is. From the 5000 cases reported they just looked at about 2-3 % and fined a few. Guess who was/is one of the biggest frauds, Uuuuuuuurrrrr, yep, JP Morgan.

Do we hear anything about how the massive Medicare fraud (60 Billion a year) is being tackled? Or how they wanna deal with 7 Billion of FTD's (value per day)

is being dealt with? Or the massive fraud in Iraq and Afghanistan where for example if you are driving your new truck and run a flat, the truck is burned and a new one ordered because there is no spare tire on board.

It is almost funny as I hear Naam's statement echoing saying there is nothing wrong with this world. (no pun intended)

I guess we just have to close our ears and eyes and pretend this world that we are experiencing is not real as some scientist claim.

Just noticed a nice 32 Inch LCD at a price of 15.000 THB, not that I ever look TV but it seems a good deal compared with the prices they asked for them not such a long time ago.

I noticed that at the Tesco here in my area they got rid of those guy's that hand out those plastic cards. I wonder what they fill in on their CV when preparing to find a new job. For the rest I do not see many signs of a worsening economy here in Thailand. Still huge traffic jams and they seem to be as big as before.

Construction on new condos still going in rapid pace, plenty of cars with red plates driving around and truckloads of new cars being delivered to car dealers.

By the way I am thinking of getting back into posting those very annoying picture posts that I did a while ago, just to piss of Naam a bit.

Peace all!

[lannarebirth]

Congressional Panel Suggests Firing Managers, Liquidating Banks

“All successful efforts to address bank crises have involved the combination of moving aside failed management and getting control of the process of valuing bank balance sheets,” the panel, headed by Harvard Law School Professor Elizabeth Warren, said in its report.

“Allowing institutions to fail in a structured manner supervised by appropriate regulators offers a clearer exit strategy than allowing those institutions to drift into government control piecemeal,” the report said.

The report also said that past successful financial rescues were accompanied by governments’ “willingness to hold management accountable by replacing -- and, in cases of criminal conduct, prosecuting -- failed managers.”

AMEN!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJJ_MkIv9VvA&refer=home

http://cop.senate.gov/reports/library/report-040709-cop.cfm

Edited April 8, 2009 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

On the pro Geitner/Treasury side is that the losses are so humungous, that a "Japan Solution" which never really worked, could be the only solution.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/130114-the...g-balance-sheet

[AlexLah]

So what Lana, the US is getting more and more in debt, so what?

Anybody doing something to reduce the debt?

No they just increase the debt so bigger interest pay have to be made.

[Naam]

It is almost funny as I hear Naam's statement echoing saying there is nothing wrong with this world. (no pun intended)

By the way I am thinking of getting back into posting those very annoying picture posts that I did a while ago, just to piss of Naam a bit.

the only thing that is wrong with this world

[Naam]

12Chang: The Middle East is also looking at introducing a new currency, which they will presumably require for payment of oil, further reducing the importance of the USD.

Naam: incorrect statement.

12Chang: This has been discussed for several years and could well happen in the next couple of years, or maybe you have seen reports stating otherwise? Here are some old articles

the possibility of a common currency for the GCC states has been on and off the agenda long before i left Saudi Arabia. that was 28 years ago! facit: yaaaawwwwn...

[flying]

"Allowing institutions to fail in a structured manner supervised by appropriate regulators offers a clearer exit strategy than allowing those institutions to drift into government control piecemeal,"

Took them a long time & many more wasted dollars to figure this out.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

So what Lana, the US is getting more and more in debt, so what?

Anybody doing something to reduce the debt?

No they just increase the debt so bigger interest pay have to be made.

With the exception of a very short period in 1835 the US has always been in debt. The only thing that changes is the size of the debt.

The US interest payment is over 400 billion a year. But if you have no intention of paying it, it does not matter.

[lannarebirth]

So what Lana, the US is getting more and more in debt, so what?

Anybody doing something to reduce the debt?

No they just increase the debt so bigger interest pay have to be made.

With the exception of a very short period in 1835 the US has always been in debt. The only thing that changes is the size of the debt.

The US interest payment is over 400 billion a year. But if you have no intention of paying it, it does not matter.

I didn't respond to Alex because it was pretty clear he either didn't read or didn't understand what I posted. Nothing to do with national debt, which is an entirely separate matter.

[bungy007]

I called the bank on April 2, to check on a deposit. They offered me a credit card. As of yesterday, I already have $7,000 more credit and the card is in the mail. What credit crunch? OTOH, the General, that former behemoth of world capitalism that dominated the auto industry for almost a century, is down to about $2 a share and GM cannot borrow seven dollars.

@ what interest rate were you offered?

I have a small pile of gold & plat cards with 20k+ limits & afaik the interest is still quite low.

I do not use them. They just are sent to me on a regular basis.

As for the GM guys makes you wonder a bit though? I mean the folks who cause the probs need only say we need & they get.

These auto guys beg & beg & go to meetings & get harrased about how they arrived at said meetings & still .....................................................DENIED !!

The amounts they ask are tiny in comparison & they do in fact employ actual people

Makes me wonder quite a bit. Not that I believe any company or bank should be bailed but why some

( usually the bad ones ) & not the others? Is this union busting or?

Just curious as I have no horse in this race

I ask the same question.they are happy to bail out their mates that caused this debacle,yet are happy to hit an industry that employs thousands of "your average citizen".........time to take to the streets.maybe that's what they want.............who knows,and quite honestly i dont care.I would be very happy to see the complete demise of the USA and the UK.

Cor blimey, mate! That's a bit strong ain't it? Where would you be without the UK and USA? Still living life like a peasant is the answer. Mind you, perhaps you still are as it sounds like you are sadly lacking in sound judgement - hope you make it through songkran.

[midas]

Obama, Brown, Putin -we should not believe anything these these people are telling us right now !

Gref Warns of a New Banking Crisis

09 April 2009By Jessica Bachman / The Moscow TimesSberbank CEO German Gref warned that a second wave of the crisis was about to sweep over the banking sector on Wednesday, two days after Prime Minister Vladimir Putin told State Duma members that banks were out of trouble.

Gref said bad debt is piling up as worsening economic conditions make it more difficult for businesses and individuals to meet loan payments, which in turn leaves banks with insufficient cash to extend new loans.

"The crisis is just beginning for the banking industry ... and it will arrive from the real sector," Gref, who runs the country's largest bank, state-owned Sberbank, said at a conference at Moscow's Higher School of Economics.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/600/42/376043.htm

Edited April 9, 2009 by midas