So we're heading up to the G20 meeting next week. I wonder what panacea they will come up with?

I doubt very little, but I do like the way the Europeans are thinking. Now, it is always these that you seek out opinions and ideas that agree with your own, but as my ideas and opinions stem from my Grandmother, who lead a modest but happy life in fear of debt and never owed anybody anything, has given me values which the current generation do not have. Unfortunately Brown and Darling, who belong to my generation, seem to have totally different values. Or maybe the Scots values of thrift and meanness do not apply when you spend other peoples' money. Bastards.

But

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/comme...it-1652620.html

lead me to a sense of optimism that in Europe the right things are being done. Yes, the next few years will be tough, but Brown's create more debt to spend the way out of a debt created problem just seems logically wrong. And as long as the Europeans remain united I am convinced that a cautious, measured and medium term response is far better that that idiot Brown's constant knee jerking, as if his was doing some crazy demented Highland Fling with the UK economy.

They go on to cite two specific objections. London, they say, strove to be the global financial centre, without the national tax base to honour its international obligations. That the G20 summit will be held within sight of the bank towers of London's Docklands is an added irritation. As for anti-protectionism – the reserve summit theme if no international stimulus is agreed – they retort: What is the recent 30 per cent fall in sterling, if not protectionism by competitive devaluation?

So when the summit is presented as successful, as it surely will be, two questions would not come amiss. How much more successful might it have been, had Britain evinced a more European spirit over the years? And what did the visitors say about us when they got home?

Yes, indeed.

I believe the buggers in the US and UK would actually be quite happy to see some form of hyperinflation as a result of these bailouts,as higher interest rates would have the effect of reducing toxic debt.

yes there needs to be a different mindset develop re personal debt and it needs to be more expensive,but brown and darling seem to think the way to go is to encourage more spending and they are so out of touch now with the mainstream opinion.

These next two years will not see a recovery imo,but will see a rapid decline in the USA and UK.........these two countries i think will go into serious decline.wil just have to wait and see,but hyper inflation if it happens is going to paint an ugly picture for everyone.

But Thai men do not succeed very often in getting UK women, although UK men take away Thai women creating a shortage of women. They are hurt even more than the Polish men who see their women running to UK men but the Polish men do not get the UK women as often as the reverse. Even the western expat women who are left single would rather stay that way than take a Thai man. Why is that?

This is not the forum to discuss this. Try asking the question in Farang Pub....

I believe the buggers in the US and UK would actually be quite happy to see some form of hyperinflation as a result of these bailouts,as higher interest rates would have the effect of reducing toxic debt.

yes there needs to be a different mindset develop re personal debt and it needs to be more expensive,but brown and darling seem to think the way to go is to encourage more spending and they are so out of touch now with the mainstream opinion.

These next two years will not see a recovery imo,but will see a rapid decline in the USA and UK.........these two countries i think will go into serious decline.wil just have to wait and see,but hyper inflation if it happens is going to paint an ugly picture for everyone.

Inflation is certainly part of the game plan, as it inflates not just toxic debt, but all the other debt away. This is one reason why they are so paranoid about deflation, as it increases the debtors' burden, improves savers' gains and reduces tax revenue. Something that governments particularly hate. Luckily the Germans and French are against the policies which could cause it.

As you say, the populations have accepted that there is going to be a few hard years and are stopping spending and paying down debts. The UK and US governments are off on the other tangent trying to persuade people to borrow and spend even more. Particularly in the case of the UK this is a short term Labour policy to get them voted in next year. I sincerely hope that the G20 meeting makes it very clear that the Europeans are not interested in assisting Brown to become the world's biggest political disaster.

King's letter to Darling

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypol...etter090324.pdf

What a load of cr--p

And even more wishy washy crap

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...t=12&page=2

These guys have really no clue where it is all heading. Or maybe they have?

But surely not every measure is aimed at firing up the house price inflation so that the UK population can once again sit back and think they are earning more from house prices going up faster than they actually earn real money? What a fuc_king joke that was. How many Brits were getting idle, sitting back in their armchairs, watching TV on the massive LCD TVs, with the new car in the garage and planning the next holiday, all financed by "equity release" from house prices going up at, on average 18,000 Quid tax free a year or so?

All that has GONE, GONE, GONE.

And now the bills have to be paid. Time to get a job and do something productive in an industry with a future.

Enjoy.

Anybody still have hope for the UK economy?

(Sorry for the gloom and doom, but that is where it is at, a global financial crisis with the UK soundly planted in Ground Zero)

Please stop mentioning Toxic waste/assets!

They are now called: "Legacy Assets" OK?

Please stop mentioning Toxic waste/assets!

They are now called: "Legacy Assets" OK?

I refuse to toe the line,how about toxic politicians,toxic bankers cos most are all poisonous.

Today I am so so sad.

:D

Psychic Burden

It’s tough to live in New York City on much less than $400,000 a year, Orringer says, especially if a family has two kids in private school, where tuition can exceed $25,000 a year.

“I look around at my neighbors, and I wonder, ‘How do they make it?’” she says. “We have savings, although if I remain unemployed for several years, we’ll have to dramatically change our lifestyle.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

You bastards,

I am so happy to read about your problems.

:jerk:

I hope you remain jobless and in penury for the rest of your miserable lives.

:D

I was just about to turn off the computer when I unfortunately came across this lot of twaddle from Brown

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/ma...rg-protectionsm

Gordon Brown today issued an impassioned plea to the European Union to use the lessons of the continent's bloody history to guard against economic protectionism.

What a joke in view of his deliberate competitive devaluation of the GBP against European currencies.

"I talked to President Obama in recent weeks about what I want to talk to you about today: a new era of heightened cooperation between Europe and America. Never in recent years have we had an American leadership so keen at all levels to cooperate with Europe on financial stability, climate change, security and development, and seldom has such cooperation been so obviously of benefit to us and to all around the world."

Brown the Messiah???

"So I stand here today proud to be British and proud to be European, representing a country that does not see itself as an island adrift from Europe but as a country at the centre of Europe, not in Europe's slipstream but firmly in its mainstream."

Slipstream, mainstream, hey! the man is a fartstream.

And now, just read this, all you UK pensioners...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/ma...inancial-crisis

The government should force older workers to delay retirement or accept lower occupational pension incomes to close a growing rift between the generations and help lead the economy out of the recession, according to two former government advisers.

The writing is on the wall.

So you have paid your pension schemes and national insurance for over forty years, expecting to live on it. Hey! Now they are going to push out your retirement age (if you can get a job) and reduce your pension, so that the profligate younger generation of debtors get off lightly.

But maybe they are going to target all the civil service employees? Now that would be a surprise.

the guy is a peacock,preening himself daily,obviously so in love with his own words and wisdom,makes me want to puke.

http://ukhousebubble.blogspot.com/2009/03/...f-devalued.html

This will cheer you up, FINALLY someone speaks out and confronts that prick Brown, (and he laughs) this Video is getting plastered all over webland it needs to go Viral

All brits need to send this to your familes and friends as its laymans talk, so should be easy to understand

Why hasnt the tories got in on this, Shouldn`t Cameron be saying this????

I think the Tories have twigged that the UK is going to be in such a mess when they come around to polls, they will want labour to win,

As who would want to take on the challenge of the now

i am so looking forward to my holiday back in the UK, NOT,

G brown the un-elected shortest Prime minister of UK history, (labour cant kick him out as no labour minister will take the Job now, knowing the polls will destroy labour)

i can only think ministers already know that G brown is history (and un-elected as well ) only this time the people will kick him out

it will be a landslide for the tories, i think you might see a massive turn out in the polls as the conditions get worse

Boom and bust Huh!!!!, oh we got that alright (its going to take years/decades to fix the damage)

The debts the UK has now is obscene Jim Rogers had it right, what does the UK have left to offer the world??? other than paper pushing

You pay down debt in the good years or store wealth ready for the bad years, NOT spend more in the good years then expect to ask for more to keep the gravy train running longer

it seems the US and UK have that in common (but then so do alot of other countries)

We are still playing music chairs, and fighting for a seat (there are worse countries than the UK) but not by much

its a good job we have America standing right beside us (Bernanke will bail out the UK with the Currency swaps, we can exchange paper for paper)

punch a few numbers and a quick $150B will be winging its way to the UK sshhhhhhhhhhhh its all paper with pretty letters and pictures

I know from speaking with friends that Food is NOT getting any cheaper, as you need food and Enegy Demand will always be there, regardless of Housing, thats if you still have a JOB

many i speak with have been laid off, i really do feel for those with massive debts

I guess those exotic holidays and Plasma Tv`s were not worth it in the End, or what about those designer handbags and jeans, when taking those mortgage extensions and beleiving in G Brown that the good times are here to stay

Edited March 25, 200917 yr by Nouf

And from that same website the following.....................

About half the debt is from financial sector, ooops!

How to fix that one?

http://ukhousebubble.blogspot.com/2009/03/...f-devalued.html

This will cheer you up, FINALLY someone speaks out and confronts that prick Brown, (and he laughs) this Video is getting plastered all over webland it needs to go Viral

Thank you so much.

I hope that this will lead to a revolution, or at least to getting rid of that destructive, selfish and ignorant mono-eyed <deleted>.

http://ukhousebubble.blogspot.com/2009/03/...f-devalued.html

This will cheer you up, FINALLY someone speaks out and confronts that prick Brown, (and he laughs) this Video is getting plastered all over webland it needs to go Viral

Thank you so much.

I hope that this will lead to a revolution, or at least to getting rid of that destructive, selfish and ignorant mono-eyed <deleted>.

at last someone to stand up and tell it like it is,a pity the tories have n't got the spine to do what this MEP did,and they should be ashamed of themselves,britain is crying out for an uncorrupted leader.

at last someone to stand up and tell it like it is,a pity the tories have n't got the spine to do what this MEP did,and they should be ashamed of themselves,britain is crying out for an uncorrupted leader.

I think you'll find he's a Tory.

some snipets:

Japan's Export Machine In Dire Straits: Record 49% Plunge In February

Exports posted the sharpest plunge on record in February 2009, falling 49.4% yoy. February's drop in exports eclipses the 46% yoy fall in January 2009 and the 35% yoy fall in December 2008. Exports to the U.S. tumbled 58% in February, and so far, there is little sign that China's fiscal stimulus is boosting demand for Japanese materials. Data indicates that Japan's economy, which in past recessions relied on exports to recover, won't be supported by overseas demand

Imports fell dropping 43% yoy amid declining corporate earnings and rising unemployment. As a result, Japan posted a trade surplus in February for the first time in five months.

World Trade to Contract Significantly in 2009 Amidst the Global Recession

WTO: The collapse in global demand will drive trade volumes down by 9% in 2009, the biggest contraction since World War II. Trade in developed countries will fall by 10% while in developing countries will shrink by 2-3%

The fall in global trade in 2009 will be the first negative annual decline since 1982 led by the contraction in global growth, slump in manufacturing activity and capex, and crunch in trade finance, and this might be exacerbated by growing protectionist measures around the world.

UK Gilt Auction Fails Despite Quantitative Easing

March 25: 40 year gilt auction failed for the first time since 2002 due to buyer shortage for GBP1.75 billion (US$2.55 billion) of bonds. Investors bid for 93% of bonds offered. Confidence boost from quantitative easing was not enough to attract investors. BoE began purchasing gilts from March 11 to push down yields.

For all the Brown lovers around here, here's a couple of sentences to make you cringe. Although the man himself didn't utter them, it was some sidekick Purnell, I think we can hear Brown speaking

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/po...es-1655354.html

"Over the last decade the British government has done more redistribution than any other developed nation. It [the crisis] means... we can't create equality in the old way.

"While we will always have a moral duty to tackle poverty as we find it we can't simply take money from one set of people and give it to another, and call that equality. That is a palliative.

"Instead, the left needs to remember that it started off as a movement about power. We need to recognise that income inequality is just part of a wider struggle against the inequality of power. The greatest injustice is when people cannot achieve their goals because someone else with power stops them."

It looks like the UK population have been subject to Brown's "palliative" actions, take the money from them and give it to the wanke_rs, oh, sorry, bankers. And who the fukc is the "someone else in power" stopping people achieve their goals? Is this not Cyclops Brown himself??? He has certainly destroyed more than a few dreams and goals.

here you go 12, just what you wanted to say and did not get the audience opportunity.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...-disaster.html#

This guy says it all. enjoy

here you go 12, just what you wanted to say and did not get the audience opportunity.

This guy says it all. enjoy

Thanks, already saw it a couple of days ago. I was hoping that Brown's response would have been put up on YouTube as well. I did get a certain amount of vicarious pleasure from it.

The man is obviously finished politically and should resign. problem is, that the opposition don't have much about them either. But maybe there are a few more like Hannan to give us hope?

Sorry I have always been a bit slow. Agree 100% with what you say, actually most pollies fall into the same category, somewhere between almost, and totally useless, and many corrupt too! Afraid I have little confidence or time for them, Guy Fawkes had the right idea.

We the people!!!!!

these videos are excellent, for the US citizens, get your teabags at dawn,

even i would send a teabag just for a laugh and i am not a US citizen but gladly send a tea bag if i had a US address, i would send a packet

These have gone viral over 1.2 million already savage

http://www.youtube.com/user/Funbobbasso

its started, America`s next revolution, Obama will be talking verbal Diarrhea soon

all you need now is Glenn beck to declare it and its pitch folk time

people will do some crazy stuff when pushed, check out Hal turner.com, that boy is nut job and he and like minded nutters i can see doing some real damage soon to a congress member or banker

I think we are near a boilng point and Obama is starting to act like a fool with his selling speeches, the guy is on the television every single day 4 times a day

Who is he trying to sell the ideas too??? sign of the times when the president has to go and bring out the begging bowl just to keep the peace

got popcorn????

Edited March 28, 200917 yr by Nouf

Most governments are simply a gravy train. A group of random University graduates could administer a country as well, if not better.

Perhaps now Politicians have been thrust into the limelight, people might cotton on to this, what that means for society I dont know, but from being minor B-movie shadows in the background, due to the crisis theyre now the new masters of the universe. Westminster is the new Square Mile.

I'd say, bring out the pitchforks and piano wire, hang a few of the culprits on lamp poles after they went through the tar and feathers.

If the Americans citizens don't do that, they better be dead.

There are a few of you posting here that live in the US right?

Why are their no massive street protests, why is there no public outrage, how much more are they willing to take?

Is the average person so terrified of the thought of loosing their job that they are just afraid to do anything else than watching the news and seeing Prince Oboema reading from his teleprompt a speech that is not even written by himself? Telling his peasants that they just need a little more patience and all will be fine. Sending only hope, and we all know, hope is always tomorrow or the day after.

Why are they in an apparent state of apathy, why do people refuse to recognise or admit that they are conned big time.

Have they been conditioned to behave like this?

I still remember when I was young at that time the Dutch government wanted to allow the placement of nuclear missiles on our soil.

Within a few weeks there was a massive protest on the street with over a Million people attending. And that was all organised in a time where there was no Internet. When government could see the public outrage they understood it is still the people that have the power so they promptly changed their minds.

Where is that spirit and will to fight for justice nowadays in the US and some parts of Europe that increasingly are becoming police states, if not already are.

Time is running out so you better do something before you are totally screwed, sending teabags is one thing, to take the fight to the streets must be next.

I really hope there will be massive protests during the pathetic one day G20 meeting, what the heck they think they can achieve in one day, what a farce.

I'd say, bring out the pitchforks and piano wire, hang a few of the culprits on lamp poles after they went through the tar and feathers.

If the Americans citizens don't do that, they better be dead.

There are a few of you posting here that live in the US right?

Why are their no massive street protests, why is there no public outrage, how much more are they willing to take?

Is the average person so terrified of the thought of loosing their job that they are just afraid to do anything else than watching the news and seeing Prince Oboema reading from his teleprompt a speech that is not even written by himself? Telling his peasants that they just need a little more patience and all will be fine. Sending only hope, and we all know, hope is always tomorrow or the day after.

Why are they in an apparent state of apathy, why do people refuse to recognize or admit that they are conned big time.

Have they been conditioned to behave like this?

I still remember when I was young at that time the Dutch government wanted to allow the placement of nuclear missiles on our soil.

Within a few weeks there was a massive protest on the street with over a Million people attending. And that was all organised in a time where there was no Internet. When government could see the public outrage they understood it is still the people that have the power so they promptly changed their minds.

Where is that spirit and will to fight for justice nowadays in the US and some parts of Europe that increasingly are becoming police states, if not already are.

Time is running out so you better do something before you are totally screwed, sending teabags is one thing, to take the fight to the streets must be next.

I really hope there will be massive protests during the pathetic one day G20 meeting, what the heck they think they can achieve in one day, what a farce.

In the US, amongst the adults, you basically have two type of people -- the loons and the drones. The loons go out protesting while the drones support society and pay most of the taxes. It takes a lot to turn a drone into a loon, and the ratio of drones to loons increases as the population ages. It takes a lot of energy to be a loon, and most lack it.

Edited March 28, 200917 yr by OriginalPoster

In the US, amongst the adults, you basically have two type of people -- the loons and the drones. The loons go out protesting while the drones support society and pay most of the taxes. It takes a lot to turn a drone into a loon, and the ratio of drones to loons increases as the population ages. It takes a lot of energy to be a loon, and most lack it.

I am not American but from what I can see there is a huge shift in sentiment going on.

What happens if the drones organise taxation strikes which is happening- that doesn't take a lot of energy?

But the implications will be enormous

dug this out on page 20,is everyone taking a break?this G20 has got to be a total waste of time,i read somewhere Obama does n't even want to attend,gordon brown's hoping the meeting will save his bacon,and the europeans are playing hardball.

So whats it going to achieve?I see people are beginning to demonstrate in London(34000)quoted today out on the streets,and rumours have it many people coming into the UK from europe to take part.So am hoping there will be big turnouts to embarass the meeting.

And why do the BBC have to give time to george soros to tell everyone this meeting is "make or break" for the world financial system.here's a guy who plunders the system for his own end and in my opinion does not deserve TV time to advise us plebs what should be done.

And Alex,to answer your question about why no one in the USA is out on the streets to date,well maybe its because they've all been obamarised,or maybe they just want to wait and see if the guy can clean up the banking sector and wall street.Wall street are already complaining about restrictions and regulations that obama and geitner want to put in place.and if obama fails to deliver then maybe people will take to the streets.Or it may take a collapse in pensions/social security to waken people up.

I am not American but from what I can see there is a huge shift in sentiment going on.

What happens if the drones organize taxation strikes which is happening- that doesn't take a lot of energy?

But the implications will be enormous

This really is the simplest answer

If everyone just said no

No need to go anywhere or do anything rough

just say no on April 15th If it is too late then make sure this was the last

Fed Income Tax you pay.

We don't approve of how your spending our tax $$$

We said no to the bail out but you went ahead anyway........So

this is now a self service country. Get the taxes your dam_n self

why no one in the USA is out on the streets to date,well maybe its because they've all been obamarised,or maybe they just want to wait and see if the guy can clean up the banking sector and wall street.Wall street are already complaining about restrictions and regulations that obama and geitner want to put in place.and if obama fails to deliver then maybe people will take to the streets.Or it may take a collapse in pensions/social security to waken people up.

Sadly most Americans are too busy to notice..really

Most have their nose to the grindstone & you would be surprised how many do not even watch the mess.

But on the other hand you have never seen such a build up of weapons & ammo so it seems folks are preparing for something.

It could be as you said a wait & see type.....But they are not waiting without a bit of preparation. I think the same can be said for the govt. They are in a sticky situation. They are not blind either. Also in America pretty much every firearm sale & ammunition sale is reported in some form or another.

So they see what is transpiring but they dare not step in at this time. They want to let things cool & let folks feel not threatened by their own govt. A govt that very much needs their support & tax $$ now more than ever. Interesting times for sure.

Edited March 29, 200917 yr by flying

maybe just maybe obama and geitner are moving in the right direction(new regulations and oversight)we will get an idea if this is so by how pissed off wall street/bankers/financiers become.It is time to shackle them and make some honest money.

But that still leaves the top five bankers in control of a private printing machine(the fed) and imo if they really want to change things for the better they have to get rid of the autonomy of the fed.reserve.now that would be a financial revolution.

We don't approve of how your spending our tax $$$

We said no to the bail out but you went ahead anyway........So

this is now a self service country. Get the taxes your dam_n self

Well if they keep paying up now they know how their hard earned

money is being thrown out of the window - then Americans are truly patient

Ok folks, this week the announcment will be made.