Financial Crisis

[CPH]

Talking about the bankers bonusses, they should be forced to repay the bonusses received for the last eight years because they received the money on the assumption that they made a lot of money for the banks. All they made in this period has later turned up as massive losses threatening the worlds financial systems.

Take for instance Goldman Sacks, one of the major issuers of Mortgage Backed Securities.

They issued the GSAMP Trust 2006-S3 which was second mortgages up to 100 % of the house value. Already 18 month after issue 20 % was in foreclosure. But Goldman did not take any losses because they just shorted Mortgage Backed Securities, who else would be in a better position to know what junk MBS was. Isnt it fantastic. They were also the one who insited that oil would reach 200 $ all the time they were long oil massively.

How can a system like that be legal, the same people who issues and hold the instruments recommend and short or long same things.

By the way average salary at GS was approx. $ 622,000 per year in 2006.

[Naam]

However, It's not uncommon to hear non-Americans loudly and arrogantly proclaiming how loud and arrogrant Americans are. Perhaps they are just expressing a feeling of kinship.

vee Tchermanns do ze zame butt vizz a distinktif differentz. vee komplain how laut and arrogant our tchermann kountry fellows behave espeshully vhen zey are hollidaying abroad.

is that an east german dialect!

it iss not! my vife klaims inshpite off her efforts off 29 years to teatch me der korrekt pronunciashun off der english lankvich i shtill shpeak like ziss. butt i zink she exatcherates a bit und does not take in konsiderashun zat i vas adopted by tchermann foster parents vhen i vas shtill a littel Klingon baby. i admit even later on planet Klingon (vhere i shtudied und serfed in ze armed forces) my fellow Klingons made fun of me bekause off my aylien aktsent.

[AlexLah]

I am tired of talking, it is time we take action!

72 virgins are waiting, I just wonder which one to take first.....

This one or....

This one:

sdgfvSG.bmp

Edited February 8, 2009 by AlexLah

[Naam]

maybe dubya got his second term cos of a weak opponent.there can be no true democracy when corporations are allowed to fund campaigns.funding should be equal and from the public purse,then you would n't have all those dumb tv adverts.

i second that but add there should be no gallavanting criss cross country allowed which is mainly shaking hands and kissing babies. what should be conducted is a high number of debates in which moderators ask specific questions to be answered by the candidates.

besides the USA there are a lot of countries which claim they are democracies but their election rules show nothing of the greek or latin roots (democracy and republic) both meaning "rule of the people". the rubbish of "electorate" instead of popular vote, archaic voting rules and similar distortions of the peoples will is proof for my claim.

the only democracy i know is Switzerland. no new law, no change in major policies by the government if a certain number of opposing citizens ask that a referendum with a simple "yes" or "no" is held. the history of seven centuries success and involvement in any war speaks for itself.

some male chauvinist pigs of course claim that Switzerland's success is based on the fact that till the 1970s females were not allowed to vote

[Naam]

let's go back to the financial crisis. mea culpa! the swiss democracy has nothing to do with the crisis. swiss banks yes!

[flying]

let's go back to the financial crisis. mea culpa! the swiss democracy has nothing to do with the crisis. swiss banks yes!

Perhaps but........... When you said

the history of seven centuries success and involvement in any war speaks for itself.

That really is something isn't it? Very Impressive

[Naam]

let's go back to the financial crisis. mea culpa! the swiss democracy has nothing to do with the crisis. swiss banks yes!

Perhaps but........... When you said

the history of seven centuries success and NO involvement in any war speaks for itself.

That really is something isn't it? Very Impressive

it is indeed impressive that a country located in the heart of war torn Europe could stay out of any of the dozens of wars. my grammar lacks again today. corrected in red

[lannarebirth]

let's go back to the financial crisis. mea culpa! the swiss democracy has nothing to do with the crisis. swiss banks yes!

Perhaps but........... When you said

the history of seven centuries success and involvement in any war speaks for itself.

That really is something isn't it? Very Impressive

I suppose it depends how one defines "involvement". If it means the spilling of their own peoples blood it's a true statement. If it means never acting to facilitate the spilling of other countries children's bood, well I'd have to disagree. Still, they've done a lot more right than wrong IMO.

[12DrinkMore]

the only democracy i know is Switzerland. no new law, no change in major policies by the government if a certain number of opposing citizens ask that a referendum with a simple "yes" or "no" is held. the history of seven centuries success and involvement in any war speaks for itself.

Not quite true, in 1798 Switzerland was taken by the French army and put under French rule for five years.

And rereading your last sentence,

the history of seven centuries success and involvement in any war speaks for itsel

I guess that is definitely true. The Swiss banks certainly get involved in all the wars they can by taking good care of the cash! In fact, they are even doing their best to help out the evaders in the US taxman's war on evasion! :D

[Naam]

in 1798 Switzerland was taken by the French army and put under French rule for five years

do a few years of occupation count when seen in context of seven centuries?

[JimsKnight]

They most certainly do.

5 years is a long time, even for klingons

[colibra]

Hi sky aloha from the big Island. Puna side.

Its seems to me that a lot of US bashing is just unadulterated jealousy. As far as loud mouths since I've been in Thailand and had the wonderful oportunity to hang out with the wonderful people from many countries, I think there is more than enough to go around from all countries. Since I meet more people hear from other countries than the US it has begun to bias me toward some countries having more than there share. Not to mention their arrogance.

But more on topic I find it frustrating to have saved my money and made a few good investment only to see it start to evaporate because of many greedy people in the banking and loan industry that are causing and going to cause even more hyperinflation. I figures Thailand and many other countries are hiding the real inflation rates that devalueing and robbing the general population of there wealth.

For instance 3 years ago pork in thailand was about 50baht per kilo and now is over 100 baht a kilo, but if you listen to the government inflation is running about 6.7. They must think people are stupid.

aloha

[thaidrew]

Well bottom line is that we have a financial situation that has been thrust upon us and that no one really has any clearcut idea of how to solve. The whole world revolves around confidence, and something is only worth what someone else is prepared to pay for it. IMO a possible, if unlikely solution, is a new world currency, say called a peanut, or yuan, and all currencies would have to be weighed against this USD replacement. It would seem that there is declining confidence in the USD, as in nearly all currencies, and so if the USD was to devalue it serves no purpose since it devalues all other currencies too, thus achieving little. A new common currency would reward strong economies and penalise others, still allow traders to take their pound of flesh from the manipulations, and stabilise the world economy, hopefully averting this type of situation, for awhile anyway, since greed will find a way to take advantage.

All governments, in my opinion are much of a muchness, they all consist of people that are predominantly corrupt, greedy, fundamentally lazy, and mostly incompetent, why else accept a salary of $200k, plus perks, when the bankers pick up many times that but without the perks or the power. Whilst we have pure greed we will have a finite system, that must fail. But I do not imagine even in my wildest dreams that the situation will change. This crisis will pass, eventually, since even the richest must have a return at some stage, and control must be maintained at all costs. The governments will do as they always have, and at some later time it will repeat itself again, how else can power take advantage of the mass's.

We live in a synthetic world where old fashioned customs and traditions have been discarded for instant gains with little regard for the future. The old systems which used to provide stability have now been superseded by instant schemes designed to expand the returns many fold but at what a price.

The AK47 is a good idea but not new, Guy Faulks had the same intention a long time ago.

[henryalleman]

it is indeed impressive that a country located in the heart of war torn Europe could stay out of any of the dozens of wars. my grammar lacks again today. corrected in red

They only earn a lot of money by it , especially from the Jews

[12DrinkMore]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

U.K. bankers have reaped more than 31 billion pounds in bonuses over the past four years, according to the Centre for Economics and Business Research.

Every last GBP should be paid back with interest. All of those so called profits have evaporated into a trillion Pounds in bailouts, a savaged global economy, a possible 3,000,000 people out of work in the UK, thousands of companies going out of business. AND NO END TO THE MISERY IN SIGHT.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle5683417.ece

A ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND executive who led its investments into “toxic” sub-prime loans was paid close to £40m in just three years

It is unbelievable that these incompetent leeches are still clamouring for bonuses and stating how necessary they are to attract the "best". We earnestly need a return to the 3 6 3 banking system (pay depositors 3%, charge debtors 6% and be on the golf course at 3 pm). That system cannot fail, it is utterly boring, stable, solid, produces steady profits for the shareholders (which include OUR pension schemes) but a zillion times better than the roller-coaster bullshit that has been construed.

In my opinion the bankers are simply arrogant hit and run thieves, taking what they can get with total disregard for long term stability or anything else other than personal gain. For the misery they have created they should all be clapped in irons in the Bangkok Hilton. A round from my AK47 is too good for them. THEY SHOULD SUFFER.

There is simply no way on Earth that a dam_n EMPLOYEE should be paid 40,000,000 Quid for three years fraud. That is 1,500 Pounds for every single hour in the day over the three years this bsatard was sending the Royal Bank of Scotland into insolvency. He should be hung, drawn and quartered. Giss us tha job, I can do it.

:D

Edited February 8, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[AlexLah]

I told ya, these people have no feelings at all.

It is time for a public execution where we have those banker guy's in front row, but even then I think they will not understand.

I told you I have worked with those kind of people and really, they do not feel anything even if you decap their own child.

They will not blink an eye, therefore I suggest a public excecution where we will take a knife and make a nice clean cut along their belly, rip out their intestines and watch them die slowly.

Who is appointing those peeps anyway?

[samuibeachcomber]

I told ya, these people have no feelings at all.

It is time for a public execution where we have those banker guy's in front row, but even then I think they will not understand.

I told you I have worked with those kind of people and really, they do not feel anything even if you decap their own child.

They will not blink an eye, therefore I suggest a public excecution where we will take a knife and make a nice clean cut along their belly, rip out their intestines and watch them die slowly.

Who is appointing those peeps anyway?

you seem to be getting more angry,dont worry they will have their day of reckoning.

[AlexLah]

[midas]

The bloody lawyers who drafted these contracts to pay these bonuses should also be castrated.

I'm sure a first year law student would have remembered to insert a provision

that such bonuses should not be paid in the event of failure - this is just Alice in Wonderland

stuff. Bonuses for failure I wonder how much they would have received for success

[AlexLah]

Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle5690117.ece

[midas]

Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle5690117.ece

Are these people deliberately trying to incite a revolution ? I dont think

you can just keep piling it onto the public like this without someone going crazy with a

weapon against them ..........

AND this one is classic

" Sources close to UKFI defended the proposed incentive

payments. “If these guys sell RBS at a large profit for the taxpayer in a

couple of years, who’s going to begrudge them a bonus?” said one. "

Ok guys but dont spend it ok because if you DONT sell RBS at a large profit

guess what........we want every penny back ok ?

[mijan24]

I told ya, these people have no feelings at all.

It is time for a public execution where we have those banker guy's in front row, but even then I think they will not understand.

I told you I have worked with those kind of people and really, they do not feel anything even if you decap their own child.

They will not blink an eye, therefore I suggest a public excecution where we will take a knife and make a nice clean cut along their belly, rip out their intestines and watch them die slowly.

Who is appointing those peeps anyway?

I read these rants and wonder where you were lets say 2 years ago - I did not notice any posters on TV weighing in with what are these guys doing (bankers) paying me such high interest - can they really afford to do this are they qualified??That baht exchange rate is so high I wonder if they the (bankers) know what they are doing?

I am but a babe in this world of finance - when I look atr some house prices and read double digit Millions Crikeys am on the wrong planet?? Yet with that in mind I (sorry we) own a very modest house in Nonthaburi, own my vehicles both are dated of course 4/38 years respectively, own both motorcycles both are dated also - -NO oustanding debts except $32 on my mastercard and my few dollars safely locked away at a meagre 3.3% which will not bear fruit until Jul09 (next FY) under tax limit and ready to be reloicated again. With all this in mind i sleep well and friends tell me I do not look a day older than my 63 years of age - hair not gone and only slightly greying at the sides.

Do not rip the innards out of the bankers firstly look at onesself - Good old saying Nothing in Life is Free!! and The other Life wasn't meant to be easy.

[AlexLah]

Well that is good for you I wish there were more people thinking like that.

As I said in my homecountry you could lend max. 2.5 times annual salary but many banks kept it at 2-2.2.

The stupid thing was that once you signed the mortgage papers you now could apply for a second mortgage to make some house improvements as you now had an "asset" Anyway I stumbled upon this video and if true it would explain the sudden panic a bit better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INAGMSARPYw&eurl

If true, who was asking for his/her USD?

[midas]

I read these rants and wonder where you were lets say 2 years ago - I did not notice any posters on TV weighing in with what are these guys doing (bankers) paying me such high interest - can they really afford to do this are they qualified??That baht exchange rate is so high I wonder if they the (bankers) know what they are doing?

I am but a babe in this world of finance - when I look atr some house prices and read double digit Millions Crikeys am on the wrong planet?? Yet with that in mind I (sorry we) own a very modest house in Nonthaburi, own my vehicles both are dated of course 4/38 years respectively, own both motorcycles both are dated also - -NO oustanding debts except $32 on my mastercard and my few dollars safely locked away at a meagre 3.3% which will not bear fruit until Jul09 (next FY) under tax limit and ready to be reloicated again. With all this in mind i sleep well and friends tell me I do not look a day older than my 63 years of age - hair not gone and only slightly greying at the sides.

Do not rip the innards out of the bankers firstly look at onesself - Good old saying Nothing in Life is Free!! and The other Life wasn't meant to be easy.

I think you have been in Isaan for too long mate

There is a bit of a difference to comparing paying high interest and forex exchange rates

to receiving a multi million payout after you have failed at your job ?

it is like heads I win tails you lose

[12DrinkMore]

Coming back to my post above

A ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND executive who led its investments into “toxic” sub-prime loans was paid close to £40m in just three years

I just can't get my head around the figures here.

It works out at 1,500 Quid for every single hour of that man's day and night.

So after JUST 16 <deleted> HOURS he has pocketed the average UK ANNUAL salary. And this he does EVERY 16 HOURS.

And after JUST 24 DAYS he has pocketed the average lifetime's earnings of the average guy, PROVIDED the average guy has a job all the time.

There is no way on this planet that a single human being is worth paying that much money as AN EMPLOYEE with NO PERSONAL INVESTMENT OF LIABILITY and also key in CAUSING BILLIONS of losses.

How much longer will this krap be tolerated? Once an army of 3,000,000 are unemployed and getting 70 Quid/week on the dole, seeing inflation taking off due to the devaluation of the Pound, and being unable to support themselves, there will surely be massive civil unrest? And then add in all of the pensioners who in the same <deleted> because their pension schemes are all bust, and the 1,000,000 ex-pats relying on income from the UK.

Plus factor in the stagnant maybe even falling wages (3,000,000 unemployed will surely allow employers to hold down any wage demands) turning another few million into poverty.

Will there be a civil war in the UK? Certainly now Brown has completely lost it all. He will never get re-elected, in fact this man was never elected in the first place. All the Tories have to do is to state they will reduce the bankers excesses and they will be in power. And this they have already publicised.

Reading through the comments in the newspapers, there is a rapidly increasing intolerance of all the bullshit. It will surely explode at some point.

Can anything stop the explosion?

The only thing I can think of is that Labour call an election in the next few months and the Tories take over with a massive majority.

[JimsKnight]

Dude, NuLabour are in this for the long haul, they've supped at the trough now for over ten years, they like what they sup and they ain't going down without a fight, mark my words.

The Brown Man will hang on to the bitter end in the hope of the recession easing and then taking the credit for it. Then the Tories will have a battle on their hands.

Give me tory sleaze any day over the Stasi-like Labour machinations and wrecking balls that have been unleashed on the economy!

[midas]

The only thing I can think of is that Labour call an election in the next few months and the Tories take over with a massive majority.

But can they repair the damage ?

bring it on I am also angry

[12DrinkMore]

Don't read this unless you are have a few Valium tablets around.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/ja...ch-road-to-ruin

I need something bigger than the AK47. It won't be enough to eliminate the real criminals in our society.

I have insurance against theft, vandalism, accidents, bad health.

I had insurance in terms of savings and pensions for my old age.

The thieves, vandals, accidents and bad health never happened.

But the banks and the Labour party did and are destroying all that I have worked for over forty years. The Labour party must be destroyed in the the same way they are destroying the country, the bankers must be imprisoned and the whole banking system turned back to basic banking where you can understand what they do and therefore trust them.

[midas]

And while we watch all about the USA stimulus package of 800 Billion - dont

forget what problems there are at a State level in America........................( and not just this State .)

CALIFORNIA BROKE? State Could Run Out Of Money In Two Months, Says Official

The Huffington Post

February 9, 2009

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — With Republicans on the sidelines, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Democratic leaders met Tuesday to fashion a midyear fix for California's swelling budget deficit.

Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg emerged from the initial round of discussions . Less than a week ago, Schwarzenegger had threatened to veto the Democratic budget plan that is the basis for the current discussions.

"We're all very committed to making an $18 billion dent into this problem before the end of the year," said Steinberg, D-Sacramento. "That's our obligation."

Steinberg said he hoped leaders could reach a deal by the end of the week and planned to resume talks Friday, likely by teleconference because the governor had left California for the Christmas holiday. He said a legislative vote on a compromise could come next week.

The Democratic plan would begin to address the deficit with $9.3 billion in tax and fee increases, $7.3 billion in cuts and another $1.5 billion in labor concessions, court rollbacks and other moves.

Republicans oppose it because of the tax increases. Last week, Schwarzenegger said he would veto it because it failed to include sufficient measures to stimulate the state's economy.

But California's ballooning deficit _ projected to hit $42 billion over the next 18 months _ is leading to severe consequences that have forced Schwarzenegger and Democrats to act quickly.

On Monday, the state controller warned that California will run out of cash within 70 days if lawmakers don't act quickly to bridge the growing divide between revenue and spending.

[olor=#FF0000]On Monday, the state controller warned that California will run out of cash within 70 days if lawmakers don't act quickly to bridge the growing divide between revenue and spending.[/color]

Story continues below

Steinberg said he and Assembly Speaker Karen Bass, D-Los Angeles, were willing to give Schwarzenegger more of what he wanted. That could include making concessions on labor rules and environmental regulations to accelerate work on infrastructure projects, agreeing to build more toll roads in the state and expanding help to homeowners facing foreclosure.

The Democratic leaders said they also were trying to accommodate the governor's demands for additional spending cuts, including eliminating two of 14 paid state holidays. Doing so would save an estimated $114 million during this fiscal year and the next one, mostly in overtime costs.

Republicans did not participate in Tuesday's budget negotiations.

Senate Minority Leader Dave Cogdill, R-Modesto, said Republicans would return to the Capitol if a deal were to be reached but said his caucus remained opposed to the package. He and other Republicans believe it is illegal because it contains tax increases yet was passed without a two-thirds vote in the Legislature.

"There's nothing for us to talk about today," said Cogdill, strolling through the Capitol in jeans and a leather jacket.

Anti-tax groups have vowed to sue if Schwarzenegger signs the plan, challenging its legality. Proposition 13, passed by voters 30 years ago, requires a two-thirds vote by lawmakers to raise taxes.

Democrats say they have found a way to get around the two-thirds requirement by claiming their $18 billion plan does not technically increase the amount of taxes on Californians.

Instead, they say it eliminates gas taxes and replaces them with a variety of other charges, including raising the state sales tax by three-quarters of a percentage point, boosting personal income taxes by 2.5 percent, taxing companies that extract oil from California and collecting taxes from independent contractors upfront.

It then replaces the gas taxes with what Democrats call a gasoline fee that would go solely to transportation projects. Because the fee is dedicated to a single purpose, it does not require a two-thirds vote, Democrats say.

Schwarzenegger has said it is necessary to raise taxes, but his opinion about the method contained in the Democratic plan is uncertain. Last week, he called the Democrats' proposal a "terrible budget" that would "punish the people of California." And in a meeting with local leaders in the Central Valley last week, he said their plan included "illegal taxes."

It was not clear Tuesday why the governor had decided to negotiate on a plan that only days ago he said contained provisions that were not legal. His spokesman, Aaron McLear, said Schwarzenegger would not sign anything that is illegal.

After meeting with the Democratic leaders, Schwarzenegger was asked whether he would sign a budget plan that contained tax increases but was passed only by a simple-majority vote.

"I prefer having my Republican friends at the table, and I prefer to get a two-thirds vote. But we do need revenue increases," he said. "To save California, I'm forced to negotiate just with the Democrats. This is the situation I am forced in because of lack of participation by the Republicans."

Schwarzenegger said he would let others debate the plan's legality, ultimately deciding "what is a fee and what is a tax?"

[AlexLah]

Why does Mr, I come back not sell their assets?

They (CA) own Billions and Billions of real estate and other stuff.

Yes I have the CAFRA.