Help - Condo Developer Bouncing Cheques In Returning Down Payment

[Khom77]

I'd like to ask for advice from you real estate mavens out there, with the understanding that this kind of story is probably becoming more and more common in this market:

My Thai GF purchased a Bangkok condo while it was in development last year. The building - in a desirable location on Sukhumvit - is well known, as is the developer. The building was slated to be finished last April, but (surprise surprise) problems developed with completion of the building as specified (although my GF's unit has been completed to spec).

For this and other reasons my GF decided to sell back to the developer, as per an opt-out clause in her contract. The total price of the condo was THB 5.5 million; she had put down a down payment of 1.1 million last year. She notified them at the end of last year, and the developer sent her a check for 1.4 million in January - the down payment, plus an additional payment to reflect the rise in the market price of the unit.

The cheque bounced. She received an apologetic call from the developer, and another cheque (including a month's interest, this time), at the beginning of this month. That cheque also bounced.

She's now been called again by the developers, they are claiming that they are facing immense cash flow problems, and are begging her to take payment now in three installments (plus interest) - which would drag this out until April.

She talked with a lawyer friend last night and he recommended that she file a police complaint and try to get at least half her money back immediately.

I've also told her that I think she should go to the police, as well as hire a lawyer to harass the developer until they cough up her money. I fully realize that the police in Thailand won't enforce this sort of contract, but at least it would send a signal to the developer that she is serious. I realize that everyone in the market is facing cash flow issues right now, but I think they are just stringing her along as long as possible so that they can pay other, more aggressive, clients back first. The good news is that she still has title to the property.

But this is all new to me (never having bought property in Thailand before), so would really appreciate any advice forum members on how they would proceed in a case like this.

Thanks!

[jbaldwin]

Bouncing a cheque is a crime in Thailand. Go to the police.

[yabaaaa]

Report it immediately ............. to Ali Bingo Bongo oh the shame the humility, easily parted from their cash etc etc etc zzzz

[bingobongo]

Report it immediately ............. to Ali Bingo Bongo oh the shame the humility, easily parted from their cash etc etc etc zzzz

come on yabaaaa, don't hate the player (me) hate the game (the declining market)

besides why hate me when it is clear that others have the financial acumen of day old som tham

peace

[yabaaaa]

I dont see any hate in my post Bongo but you do get a wee bit repetative ??

[tangoll]

Interesting that there is an opt-out clause in the sales and purchase contract -- first I've heard of such an inclusion. Mind telling us which project and developer's name?

If your GF has only paid installments up to now, no way she would be holding title to the property because transfer at Land Dept office has not taken place yet, since the final installment hasn't been paid yet.

I would suggest that your GF accept the developer's suggestion that she take 3 cheques in installment payments, but demand that the first cheque be either a bank cashier cheque or cash, and the other 2 be regular cheques of the developer. Better to work with developer and hope to get the money that way, but keep the bounced cheques if possible for future legal or police actions.

[think_too_mut]

... and the developer sent her a check for 1.4 million in January - the down payment, plus an additional payment to reflect the rise in the market price of the unit.

And the check bounced...and keeps on bouncing...that probably "reflects the rise in the market price of the unit".

Other than that, police should be called in to sort out this condo adventure.

[Khom77]

Well, we went to the police yesterday ... not too helpful. The station in question (Thonglor) said that though the developer's offices were in their jurisdiction, the cheques were written from a SCB bank in Bangkapi and we can only file a police complaint at the station there ... so now a trip to Bangkapi is in order.

[sibeymai]

and the Bangkapi police will find an excuse to send you somewhere else. If the developer is well known they will have high police connections (the fact that the developer is writing rubber cheques when they must know it's against the law should tell you they're not worried about the law) and no ordinary police want to file charges against a well connected person and bring the wrath of a high ranking policeman or politician on their heads. In the west it's called "passing the buck".

Tangoll's advice is good: get a bank cheque for at least half of the money. The reality is the longer you wait (eg. until August) the less chance there is that you will get anything from them. Take what you can from them now. If you get any more in the coming months consider it a bonus.

[skippybangkok]

Go to the police.

Most likely a shareholder too as was with Santika

[jcon]

Can you tell us the condo name? If it's on Thonglor then maybe it's the same condo I had an issue with in this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Set-listed-R...ou-t233912.html

PM me if you don't want to name the condo. I may be able to help, because I did get my money back plus 15% interest, but my situation was quite extraordinary - I guess you can say I was one of the aggressive ones you referred to in your post who got their money back first and now there isn't any money left over for everybody else... I did give other people a chance to join in, though, but they didn't believe me - and in the end, it worked out better because they never could have paid if all owners wanted their money back, so just being me (and another guy) was a good thing.

But I did just find this link, it's old (2004) but it says that they changed the law so cheque-bouncing is no longer criminal fraud, and must be sorted in the civil courts (aka forever). I don't know if they changed the law back or not, but it's just what I found just now:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bad-Cheque-M...ess-t13054.html

PM me if you want to talk about it in private. But I can't talk about much under the terms of a non-disclosure agreement (but <deleted> them, I can talk if I want, I have the power!!!!!!! muahahahahaahah)....

[Khom77]

Hi JCon - I read your previous string on this and everything matches up - it's exactly the same property. PM'ing you now.

[a99az]

Why not have a deal with the developer and buy it ?

[think_too_mut]

The total price of the condo was THB 5.5 million; she had put down a down payment of 1.1 million last year. She notified them at the end of last year, and the developer sent her a check for 1.4 million in January - the down payment, plus an additional payment to reflect the rise in the market price of the unit.

I thought it was a troll and did not dwell on this one in my first answer.

Now, I am surprised nobody has picked it up.

If there was such a rise in the market value (25%) , the developer will be dancing in the streets and try to buy back as many, if not all, units that have been paid only 20% by now.

Then, the developer would be able to skim the 80% profits coming from the "rise in the market price of the unit" across the entire project.

Instead, they are going bust.

Or, did you mean the interest the down payment has accrued over the period of time?

[jcon]

The total price of the condo was THB 5.5 million; she had put down a down payment of 1.1 million last year. She notified them at the end of last year, and the developer sent her a check for 1.4 million in January - the down payment, plus an additional payment to reflect the rise in the market price of the unit.

I thought it was a troll and did not dwell on this one in my first answer.

Now, I am surprised nobody has picked it up.

If there was such a rise in the market value (25%) , the developer will be dancing in the streets and try to buy back as many, if not all, units that have been paid only 20% by now.

Then, the developer would be able to skim the 80% profits coming from the "rise in the market price of the unit" across the entire project.

Instead, they are going bust.

Or, did you mean the interest the down payment has accrued over the period of time?

I've spoken to the OP, and this is the same project I was referring to in my own thread about an SET-Listed Company Bouncing a Cheque, which I liked to above.

I think he means accrued interest, which is stipulated in the contract at 1.25% per month or 15% per annum depending on the interpretation (you'd have to see the contract). The contract is solid, in fact I had never seen one that covered the buyer to such degree in ANY contract in Thailand.

I don't know when the OP's gf bought the condo (the OP says a year ago), but the numbers don't quite add up with a 1.1 million deposit ending at 1.4 million at 15% per annum... but maybe she bought it more than a year ago, the OP wasn't exactly clear.

I was one of the first to buy in the project (my contract numbers directly follow members of a certain un-liked "Clan" in Thailand)... so it would have been 3 years this Feb/March from when I starting paying the deposit. Like I said in my other thread, in the end I received all of my deposit payments + 42% in interest payments (Condo One owners, another project with a similar BMA problem, only paid deposits back in the end, and that was when the economy was still good... sometime in 07 I think)...

In the end, I had an issue over simple vs. compound interest being owed to me, of course in Thailand everybody gives you a blank look when you talk about compound interest, but I demanded it. In the end, I settled for simple interest (a difference of 100k baht or so, I can't remember exactly), in return for IMMEDIATE payment... there was a give-and-take, and I was very clear that ok, I'm giving you a concession here, in return you give me my money now or heads roll... as you can read in my other thread, I got my money. Jan 12. And it seems that the company started bouncing cheques right after I received mine... I think I may have been the last person to get their money back....

OP is not a troll. He just doesn't have all the details because his gf is the one who bought the condo, with her money.