Dipankara

[phetaroi]

In reading today I came across the story of Dipankara.

Although I am aware there were past and will be future Buddhas, I have not been aware of Dipankara as I have visited hundreds of temples across Thailand.

What role, if any, does Dipankara play in Thai Buddhism? Have I seen images of him at Thai temple, but just not been aware?

[fabianfred]

When the Buddha Guatama attained enlightenment he spent the first watch of the night looking back at his past lives......5...10...50...100....1000... and back.... he said " A starting point was not evident..."

Basically this means that the past is infinite and so is the future....like trying to find the beginning point of a circle....there is no beginning. Therefore the number of past or future Buddhas is infinite. We often find reference to 24 Buddhas or 28 Buddhas....which means this....

An aeon is of two kinds, either a bare aeon or a not-bare aeon. In a bare aeon, Buddhas, Silent Buddhas, and Wheel-turning Universal Emperors do not arise, therefore as it is bare of meritorious persons, the bare aeon is so called. The not-bare aeon is of five kinds: an essential aeon, a clear aeon, a choice aeon, an essential clear aeon, and an auspicious aeon. In that aeon that is bare of virtues, devoid of essential virtues, since there is the arising of essential virtues, the birth of essential virtues, by the manifestation of one Perfectly Enlightened One, it is called an essential aeon. The aeon in which two world-leaders arise is called a ‘clear aeon’. In the aeon in which three Buddhas arise, the first gives a prediction about the second Lord of the world, and the second of the third. There men with greatly delighted hearts choose by the power of their own aspiration that which they have resolved. Therefore it is called a choice aeon. The aeon in which four Buddhas arise, being more distinguished than the previous aeon, is called an essential clear aeon. An aeon in which five Buddhas arise and which is called an auspicious aeon, is extremely difficult to attain to (the present one), and in that aeon almost all beings are abundantly and excellently happy: almost all (beings having characters based on the Good Roots of non-greed, non-aversion and non-delusion, called) three-rooted, accomplish the destruction of the defilements; the ( beings having characters based on the Good Roots of non-greed and non-aversion, called) two-rooted are those who go to the good bourns; while the (beings without any Good Roots, called) rootless, acquire Good Roots. Therefore this aeon is called an auspicious aeon.

“As long, bhikkhus, as the moon and sun do not arise on the world, so long there is no manifestation of great light, of great splendour. Then there is blinding darkness, a total darkness, and no telling whether it is night or day, no telling of months or fortnights, no telling the seasons or the years.

“But, bhikkhus, when the moon and sun rise upon the world, then there is the manifestation of great light, of great splendour.

“In the same way, bhikkhus, so long as a Tathagata (a name by which Buddhas refer to themselves), an Arahant, a Perfectly Enlightened One, does not arise in the world, so long there is no manifestation of great light, of great splendour. Then there is blinding darkness, a total darkness, then there is no proclamation, no pointing out, no making known, no establishing, no expounding, explaining and clarification of the Four Noble truths.

“But, bhikkhus, when a Tathagata, Arahant, Perfectly Enlightened One, arises in the world, then there is the manifestation of great light, of great splendour. Then there is no blinding darkness, no total darkness, then there is the proclamation of the Four Noble Truths, pointing them out, making them known, establishing them, expounding, explaining and clarification of them. And of which Four Noble Truths? The Noble Truth of Dukkha; the Noble Truth of the origin of Dukkha; the Noble Truth of the Cessation of Dukkha; and the Noble Truth of the Practice-path leading to the Cessation of Dukkha."

>>Four Asongkhai (a number so vast as to be called incalculable.... being the number one followed by One hundred and forty zeros...) and a hundred thousand aeons ago, there once was a city called Amaravati….Here lived a brahmin called Sumedha… hearing that the Buddha Dipankara was residing nearby thought, “The very sound of the word ‘Buddha’ is rare in this world, more so the appearance of a Buddha” set forth. Putting his water-pot to one side and spreading out his robe on the ground, he threw himself down at the feet of the Exalted One and wiped the soles of them with his hair. And then he conceived this thought:

“Ah! May I too in some future time become a Tathagata, an Arahant, a Perfectly Enlightened One, as this Exalted Dipankara (the name of the Buddha at that time) now is. So may I set rolling the incomparable Wheel of Dhamma, as does now the Exalted Dipankara. So may I preserve a body of disciples in harmony. So may gods and men deem me worthy to be heard and believed. Having thus crossed, may I lead others across; freed, may I free others; comforted, may I comfort others; as this Exalted Dipankara does now. May I become thus for the happiness and welfare of mankind, out of compassion for the world, for the sake of the great multitude, for the happiness and welfare of gods and men.”

And the Exalted One, Dipankara, investigated through his insight into the future: “ This ascetic lies here making his resolution for Buddhahood; will his resolution be fulfilled or not?” and foresaw that on the elapse of four incalculables and a hundred thousand aeons from then he would become a Buddha named Gotama; and as he stood there he predicted amidst the assembly: “Do you see this ascetic of austere habit lying on the mud?” “Yes, Lord.” “ He lies here having made a resolution to become a Buddha. His aspiration will come true. He will become a Buddha named Gotama four incalculables and a hundred thousand aeons hence.”

> During the Aeon in which Dipankara the Lord of Ten Powers appeared, there were three other Buddhas. The Bodhisatta did not receive the assurance under them; therefore they are not mentioned here; but the commentary makes the following statement in order to ennumerate all the Buddhas starting from that aeon:

Tanhamkara, Medhamkara and also Saranamkara

Dipankara the Buddha great, Kondanna of all men the chief,

Mangala and Sumana too, Revata, Sobhita the sage,

Anomadassi, Paduma, Narada, Padumuttara, Sumedha and Sujata too,

Piyadassi, the glorious one, Atthadassi, Dhammadassi,

Siddhattha, guide of every man, Tissa, Phussa, the Buddha great,

Vipassi, Sikhi, Vessabhu, Kakusandha, Konagamana,

Kassapa also, guide for men. All these aforetime Buddhas were,

Tranquil, from all passion freed. And like the sun, the many-rayed

They chased away the darkness dense and having flamed like tounges of fire

To Nibbana passed with all their train.

Herein, our Bodhisatta spent four incalculables and a hundred thousand aeons making his resolution under twenty-four Buddhas comencing with Dipankara. No Buddha other than the present perfectly Enlightened One appeared after the Blessed One Kassapa. In this manner the Bodhisatta received his reassurance under the twenty-four Buddhas beginning with Dipankara.

Thus those beings who are endowed with all the factors and are assured of their Enlightenment uring their long sojourn in the cycle of of becoming consisting of many hundreds of crores of aeons.

Are not born in Avici, nor in the Lokantarika hells, nor are they subject to hunger and thirst in births as departed beings (hungry ghosts) who are consumed by fire and given to constant craving;

Though born in the evil state as animals they do not become tiny creatures. When born among men, they are never born blind.

They will not be deficient in hearing, nor will they be dumb nor paralytic. They will not be born as women, nor in the categories of hermaphrodites and eunuchs.

Those men who are assured of their Enlightenment are not thus overwhelmed. They are delivered of the heinous crimes; and their conduct is pure in all spheres.

They do not recourse to perverse views and they have an insight into the workings of kamma. Though they dwell in the heavens they will not be born in the non-conscious states.

There is no cause for them to born in the Pure Abodes. Bent on renunciation, these virtuous men who are detached from reiterated existence wander for the well-being of the world, fulfilling all their Perfections.

[fabianfred]

> This was said by the Exalted One, spoken by the Arahant. Thus have I heard:

“O bhikkhus (monks), I do not see any other single obstacle, hindered by which mankind for a long, long time, journeys up and down and wanders on, as this obstacle of unknowing. Indeed, bhikkhus, it is through this obstacle of unknowing that mankind, being hindered, does journey up and down and wander on for a long time.”

> “Inconceivable, bhikkhus, is a beginning to this round of wandering on. For beings obstructed by unknowing and fettered by craving, migrating and wandering through the round of births, a starting-point is not evident.

> “There comes a time, bhikkhus, when the mighty ocean dries up, is utterly drained away and comes no more to be….there comes to be a time when the mighty earth is consumed, destroyed and comes no more to be. But for beings obstructed by unknowing and fettered by craving, migrating and wandering through the round of births, I declare there is no making an end.”

> “If a man, bhikkhus, were to cut the grasses, sticks, boughs and twigs in this Jambudipa (Indian sub-continent) and collecting them together, should make a pile laying them in a stack of squares, saying for each: ‘This is my mother, this is my mother’s mother,’ bhikkhus, the grasses, sticks, boughs and twigs in this Jambudipa would be used up, exhausted, before the mothers of that man’s mother were to come to an end.

“If a man, bhikkhus, were to make this great earth into clay balls each the size of a kola-kernel and laid them down saying: ‘This is my father, this is my father’s father,’ bhikkhus, this great earth would be used up, exhausted, before the father’s of that man’s father were to come to an end.

“Why is that? Inconceivable, bhikkhus, is a beginning to the wandering on in birth and death. For beings obstructed by unknowing and fettered by craving, migrating and wandering through the round of births, a starting-point is not evident.

Thus for a long time have you experienced dukkha (suffering), experienced pain, experienced destruction. Long enough, bhikkhus, for you to have become dispassionate towards all conditioned things, long enough to become detached, long enough to become released from them.”

> Now a certain brahmin came to the Exhalted One…. “How many aeons, Lord, have passed and gone by?”

“Many, brahmin, are the aeons passed and gone by. It is not easy to reckon them up: so many aeons….”

“Can it be done, Lord, with a simile?”

“It can, brahmin,” said the Exalted One. “Now take the case of where the River Ganges begins and where it reaches the ocean. The sand that lies between, that is not easy to count: so many (grains of ) sand, so many thousands, so many millions of grains of sand. More than that are the aeons which have passed and gone by.

“How is that? Inconceivable, brahmin, is a beginning to the wandering on in birth and death. For beings obstructed by unknowing and fettered by craving, migrating and wandering through the round of births, a starting-point is not evident. Thus for a long time have you experienced dukkha, experienced pain, experienced destruction. Long enough, bhikkhus, for you to have become dispassionate towards all conditioned things, long enough to become detached, long enough to become released from them.”

> Now a certain bhikkhu came to the Exalted One….”How long, Lord, is an aeon?”

“Long, O bhikkhu, is an aeon. It is not easy to reckon how long by saying so many years, so many centuries, so many millenia, so many hundred thousand years.”

“Can it be done, Lord, with a simile?”

“It can, bhikkhu,” said the Exalted One. “Suppose, bhikkhu, there were a great mountain, a peak one yojana (ten miles) wide, one yojana across, one yojana high, a solid mass without clefts or cracks. And at the end of every hundred years a bird were to land, wipe it’s beak and leave. Well, that mountain in this way would sooner be eroded and worn away than would an aeon. So long, bhikkhu is an aeon. And of aeons so long more than one has passed, more than a hundred thousand, more than a billion have passed….”

“Bhikkhus, the bones of a single person journeying on, wandering on for an aeon, would make a cairn, a pile, a mound as great as Mount Vepulla, were there a collector of those bones and if the collection were not destroyed.”

> Thus have I heard:

At one time the Exalted One was staying at Vesali…Then the Exalted One, taking up a little dust on the tip of his fingernail, addressed the bhikkhus, saying: ‘bhikkhus, what do you think about this? Which is the greater, this little dust which I have taken up on the tip of my fingernail, or this mighty earth?’

‘Why, Lord, this is the greater, this mighty earth: extremely small is this dust -it cannot be reckoned, it cannot be compared with it. It does not come to the merest fraction of a part of it when set beside the mighty earth.’

‘Just so, bhikkhus, few are those beings who are reborn among men: more numerous are those beings who are reborn other than men; in the nether realms, in hells, as creatures and animals and other woeful states.’

as another example of the scarcity of human existence.... I have heard this.......

take the beings in the human realm and stand them upon the head of a pin..... and the surface of the earth would be covered by beings in the higher realms ....then take those beings in the higher realms and place them upon the head of a pin....and the surface of the earth would be covered by beings in the lower realms

Edited February 8, 2009 by fabianfred

[phetaroi]

FabianFred, thank you for all the info! But I do want to get back to the heart of my initial question: "I have not been aware of Dipankara as I have visited hundreds of temples across Thailand. What role, if any, does Dipankara play in Thai Buddhism? Have I seen images of him at Thai temple, but just not been aware?"

Clearly he is an important figure, but I'm trying to see what role he plays in everyday Thai Buddhism.

Thanks!

[camerata]

I don't think he plays any part in everyday Thai Buddhism. Not that I've heard or read, anyway. But Wiki says, "Dipankara is generally represented as a sitting Buddha, but his depictions as a standing Buddha are common in China, Thailand, and Nepal." Perhaps since he was the one to predict Sakyamuni's buddhahood, his likeness is honoured in some temples.

[sabaijai]

I've never seen an image of Dipankara in Thailand, although I've seen other Mahayana images (eg Upagupta) here, even in Theravada temples .

I've seen quite a few Dipankara images around the Kathmandu Valley, seems to be a particular focus for Newari Buddhism.

[ff978472]

Dipankara has nothing to do with buddhism.

The same way with french fries, it's not Thai food but Thai kids love to eat it.

[fabianfred]

Dipankara has nothing to do with buddhism.

The same way with french fries, it's not Thai food but Thai kids love to eat it.

Dipankara is the past Buddha who inspired the present Buddha to eventually become a Buddha .....

hardly irrelevant....

[ff978472]

Dipankara is the past Buddha who inspired the present Buddha to eventually become a Buddha .....

hardly irrelevant....

That's the belief of brahmins not of buddhists.

Prince Siddhartha was born to a brahmin family when Brahman is in its peak.

He found no path in Brahman's way so he decided to find a new path and it became buddhism.

Many Brahmins started to convert to buddhist and to stay competitive, brahmins started to spread the idea that lord buddha is just only a reincarnation of brahman gods.

Lord Bhuddha was a normal people; people like you and me, not a god.

He never said (actually he denied) that he was a god; how could we force him to be a god?

[ff978472]

More info to be added but for some reason my post cann't be edited, so I will add in a new post here.

==

People in old day are smart. They can notice that all human are born, grow and die.

But they cannot find the cause of these 3 phenomena so they used their imagination and came up with 3 gods (Brahman, Narai and Siwa or Trimurati in Thai) who create, maintain and destroy human life and it's the basic principle of Brahman/Hindu.

Prince Siddhartha was born to a brahmin family when Brahman is in its peak but he was not satisfied with the explaination.

He could see that despite of this concept, suffer can still be found everywhere so there must be some way out to explain what life is and why life is suffer.

So he started to look out of the box and seeked the path and there we have a new concept of buddhism.

Brahman's concept penetrated deep in to a lot of people's head and it's difficult to get rid so you will see the belief / art of brahman mixed with buddhism belief/art today.

French fried is not Thai food as much as Trimurati is not buddhism's concept.

[fabianfred]

Buddhists do not believe the Buddha to be a god....he has to be born as a man...but he does not suddenly attain to a Buddha within a single lifetime...he has perfected himself over countless billions of lives.

He did not start the Buddhist religion. He re-discovered the 'lost' Dhamma. Dhamma being the laws of nature, which, when there is no Buddha to teach the truth about them, are misunderstood or unknown.

Edited February 16, 2009 by fabianfred

[rockyysdt]

That's the belief of brahmins not of buddhists.

Prince Siddhartha was born to a brahmin family when Brahman is in its peak.

He found no path in Brahman's way so he decided to find a new path and it became buddhism.

Many Brahmins started to convert to buddhist and to stay competitive, brahmins started to spread the idea that lord buddha is just only a reincarnation of brahman gods.

Lord Bhuddha was a normal people; people like you and me, not a god.

He never said (actually he denied) that he was a god; how could we force him to be a god?

Could the following explain your issue?

Brahmin belief is a man made religion, with no proof that Gods really exist.

On the other hand the teachings of Buddha is a method of rediscovering the truth beyond the impermanent and conditioned.

Prince Siddharta may have been of Brahmin caste, but if Brahmin Gods don't really exist then he can't have been a reincarnation of god.

[ff978472]

The Dipankara: Brahman, Narai and Siwa

The Trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit

The Three Jewels: Buddha, Dhamma and Songkhla

Each religion has 3 legs, missing any leg, it will not be complete.

[sabaijai]

The Dipankara: Brahman, Narai and Siwa

The Trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit

The Three Jewels: Buddha, Dhamma and Songkhla

Each religion has 3 legs, missing any leg, it will not be complete.

I assume you meant 'Sangha' and not 'Songkhla.' How do you come up with Brahma, Narai (Vishnu) and Shiva for Dipankara?

[sabaijai]

Here are photos of a Dipankara image at Svayambunath in Kathmandu that I took last week. Other than the holding of the robe I don't see how it differs, iconographically, from Shakyamuni Buddha images.

[fabianfred]

The Dipankara: Brahman, Narai and Siwa

The Trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit

The Three Jewels: Buddha, Dhamma and Songkhla

Each religion has 3 legs, missing any leg, it will not be complete.

this looks as if you treat Dipankara as a seperate religion

you might look upon Dipankara as the buddha Guatama's first teacher....

[phetaroi]

Here are photos of a Dipankara image at Svayambunath in Kathmandu that I took last week. Other than the holding of the robe I don't see how it differs, iconographically, from Shakyamuni Buddha images.

Much appreciated!!!

[SeerObserver]

When the Buddha Guatama attained enlightenment he spent the first watch of the night looking back at his past lives......5...10...50...100....1000... and back.... he said " A starting point was not evident..."

Basically this means that the past is infinite and so is the future....like trying to find the beginning point of a circle....there is no beginning. Therefore the number of past or future Buddhas is infinite. We often find reference to 24 Buddhas or 28 Buddhas....which means this....

The current Buddha is Siddhartha Gautama (a Sammasambuddha). He is the 28th. The 28th what, Buddha in total, or Sammasambuddha? Dipankara is the 4th, but the first that Gautama came into contact with in samsara, correct?

So what is the statement regarding an infinite number of Buddhas before him? Aare we only counting the Buddhas that Gautama came across during his samsara? Or would this be that the 28 Buddhas are Sammasambuddhas, and the rest are Paccekabuddhas? If not, reconcile the statement that there are an infinite number of Buddhas, and the statement that there are 24/28 Buddhas. Now are all the Buddhas on THIS LIST Sammasambuddhas?

Edited March 19, 2009 by SeerObserver

[SeerObserver]

If this list is just a list of Buddhas Gautama encountered during his many lifetimes, then the list should be named as such. Naming it the list of 28 Buddhas has implications.

[fabianfred]

If this list is just a list of Buddhas Gautama encountered during his many lifetimes, then the list should be named as such. Naming it the list of 28 Buddhas has implications.

yes....that is the list of 28 Sammasambuddas who were relevant to our present Guatama. Not possible to be all the Buddhas which have ever been since the past is infinite.......

[SeerObserver]

Thanks for the clarification. I was pretty sure that was the case, but wanted someone else to chime in to that effect. Apart from the very elaborate and informative posts you provided above, there are many lists available naming the 24/28 Buddhas celebrated. They all seem to use the confusing wording similar to this Wikipedia description.

The Buddhavamsa (-vaṃsa; abbrev. Bv) is a Buddhist scripture, part of the Pali Canon of Theravada Buddhism. It is included there in the Sutta Pitaka's Khuddaka Nikaya. It is a fairly short work in verse, in 28 chapters, detailing aspects of the life of Gautama Buddha and the TWENTY-FOUR PRECEDING BUDDHAS. This canonical text, along with the Apadana and Cariyapitaka, has been described as "hagiographical"^[1] as well as a "latecomer" to the Canon.

Most of what I encountered during my search used wording like that. It would say "the preceding 24/28 Buddhas" and I kept thinking that there are an infinite amount of Buddhas. So then I thought that maybe all the Buddhas other than these 24/28 were Paccekabuddhas and that the twenty-something being referred to were the only Sammasambuddhas. But that didn't seem right either. And then I came across this in another Wikipedia entry that I somehow did not come across in my original search...

In most Theravada countries it is the custom for Buddhists to hold elaborate festivals to honor 28 Buddhas. For example, in various parts of Myanmar, festivals are held to pay homage to 28 Buddhas, especially in the fair weather season. The twenty eight Buddhas are said to have attained enlightenment from the time Gautama Buddha attained his first definite prophecy (assurance that one will definitely become a Buddha one day) from Dipankara Buddha. According to most Buddhist traditions, Maitreya Bodhisattva is expected to be the next Buddha.

So there are, as has always been the case, an infinite number of Buddhas before that (Sammasambuddha as well as Paccekabuddha). The makers of these lists and commentaties should include the extra wording for clarification. I don't mean to make it look like Wikipedia is the end-all final answer...haha. It's a very useful tool though.

Edited March 19, 2009 by SeerObserver

[camerata]

Does anyone ever wonder why all these buddhas over the aeons have Indian names?

[phetaroi]

Does anyone ever wonder why all these buddhas over the aeons have Indian names?

I never had...but now I do.

[fabianfred]

All Buddhas are born in the "Tawiip chomphuu" (Thai)...meaning the Jampudipa....the Indian Sub-continent.

Now....don't ask me how that is....because of course at the end of every aeon the Earth and universe are destroyed and reborn with the new aeon (maybe planets have karma too...which causes them to be created similarly to the old ones!!)

and the Buddha Guatama was a Boddhisattva for 4 (to the power of 14) +100,000 aeons

Are we to assume that all 500 of the Jataka tales were from this aeon or includes previous aeons??? since the earth and animals and Sun and Moon are referred to as they are in the present....

Would a new aeon and universe cause the Earth to have more than one sun or moon...or alien species.....maybe they were called names that we would recognise so as not to confuse or mind-boggle...??

Edited March 20, 2009 by fabianfred

[phetaroi]

All Buddhas are born in the "Tawiip chomphuu" (Thai)...meaning the Jampudipa....the Indian Sub-continent.

Now....don't ask me how that is....because of course at the end of every aeon the Earth and universe are destroyed and reborn with the new aeon (maybe planets have karma too...which causes them to be created similarly to the old ones!!)

and the Buddha Guatama was a Boddhisattva for 4 (to the power of 14) +100,000 aeons

Are we to assume that all 500 of the Jataka tales were from this aeon or includes previous aeons??? since the earth and animals and Sun and Moon are referred to as they are in the present....

Would a new aeon and universe cause the Earth to have more than one sun or moon...or alien species.....maybe they were called names that we would recognise so as not to confuse or mind-boggle...??

The idea that all Buddhas are born on the Indian Sub-continent is, of course, analogous to America's and western Europe's view of a Christian-centered world.

What interests me more than that logically false premise is that the time required for (for example) the 500 Jataka tales would exceed man's presence on earth.

[Brucenkhamen]

The idea that all Buddhas are born on the Indian Sub-continent is, of course, analogous to America's and western Europe's view of a Christian-centered world.

What interests me more than that logically false premise is that the time required for (for example) the 500 Jataka tales would exceed man's presence on earth.

The clue is in the word "tales".

[fabianfred]

“Bhikkhus, the bones of a single person journeying on, wandering on for an aeon, would make a cairn, a pile, a mound as great as Mount Vepulla, were there a collector of those bones and if the collection were not destroyed.”

sounds like a lot more than 500 lives here......

'tales' they may be called...... but they certainly read as if they were being related by the Buddha. They always end with lines like....."the Tatagatha was (the name of the main character in the tale)...(and various people present might have played other roles)....

On the night of his enlightenment the Buddha looked back at his past lives...back millions of lives... and said "a starting point was not evident..."

"the time required for (for example) the 500 Jataka tales would exceed man's presence on earth"...... is only looking from the perspective of modern science

[phetaroi]

"Bhikkhus, the bones of a single person journeying on, wandering on for an aeon, would make a cairn, a pile, a mound as great as Mount Vepulla, were there a collector of those bones and if the collection were not destroyed."

sounds like a lot more than 500 lives here......

'tales' they may be called...... but they certainly read as if they were being related by the Buddha. They always end with lines like....."the Tatagatha was (the name of the main character in the tale)...(and various people present might have played other roles)....

On the night of his enlightenment the Buddha looked back at his past lives...back millions of lives... and said "a starting point was not evident..."

"the time required for (for example) the 500 Jataka tales would exceed man's presence on earth"...... is only looking from the perspective of modern science

I'm not willing to give up science for Buddhism, and more than I am willing to give up science for creationists.

[fabianfred]

I would choose the Buddha over any scientist.... the Buddha knew everything...although he only taught what was necessary....

scientists are Puutuchon and therefore have ego problems...

Nobody (still with an ego) likes to admit that their cherished beliefs may be wrong....or that what they have thought to be true could be found to be otherwise, and they may have been mistaken all their life...

[phetaroi]

I would choose the Buddha over any scientist.... the Buddha knew everything...although he only taught what was necessary....

scientists are Puutuchon and therefore have ego problems...

Nobody (still with an ego) likes to admit that their cherished beliefs may be wrong....or that what they have thought to be true could be found to be otherwise, and they may have been mistaken all their life...

I would like to begin by saying that you are an excellent poster who is one of the most knowledgeable about the topics we discuss here.

Having said that, I think you fall into the same trap that people of so many other religions fall into -- faith. Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with "having faith" in Buddha and the Buddhist scriptures. But, if we, as Buddhists, are going to operate that way, then I think it's very difficult to have philosophical debates with people of other religions about their "faith" in their scriptures. For example, I happen to originally be from the village of Palmyra, New York -- the home of Mormonism. I have been in many discussions over the years with Mormons about the story of Joseph Smith being given the Golden Plates by the angel Moroni on a hill within walking distance of where I lived. Their answer -- it's in the Book of Mormon, which is the word of God. Fundamentalist Christians often (perhaps usually) believe every word in the Bible because it is "the word of God". I imagine the same concept is true for many other religions.

The problems with the Buddhist scriptures are, in my view, the same problems with all these other religious texts.

First, the language problem. My understanding is that Buddha did not speak in Pali, but rather in Magadhi, a regional Indian language. So, fairly soon after Buddha's nirvanna, the translations began...and, of course, all of us are reading the Buddhist scriptures in English...the result of further translation. Or, are we going with the Sanskrit translations? Further, as I understand it, the Dhamma is the word of Buddha as remembered by Ananda. I have also read that the Dhamma was not actually written down for several hundred years.

Second, by a hundred years after his "death", there were well over a dozen schools of Buddhism. So, which school "got it right"?

Third, I understand that oldest actual Buddhist texts, sometimes referred to as the "Buddhist Dead Sea Scrolls", have been dated to about the end of the first century AD!

Having said all that, much of what I believe about Buddha and Buddhism is based on "faith", not "fact".