Longnecks

[john b good]

They are not Thai, nor are they longnecks either.

O/K they are not Thai and their necks are not long but if you are not answering my questions why bother replying?

To show your stupid ignorance and to tell you the truth.

C'mon Ajarn, ease up, but then again perhaps you have been having a bad day (perhaps a few bad days by the look of it )

The guy asked a civil (and reasonable) question and you come back with a bag of vitriol

[Puwa]

I lived and worked with Karens for many years and traveled extensively to Karen communities up and down the border. At one time I could speak a major Karen dialect fairly well. One thing I learned was that other Karens were horrified by the "human zoo" phenomenon. It is simply not true that it is the only way for a tribal person to earn cash. Sure, tourists can find many ways to justify the practice--they need money, I want to see for myself, I buy their trinkets, the world is an unfair place. But to me, anyway, it's a vulgar practice that simply cheapens everyone involved.

[FolkGuitar]

It is simply not true that it is the only way for a tribal person to earn cash.

I'm sure you're correct, but just for the sake of those who don't know, perhaps you can tell us some of these other ways.

Considering the rate of unemployment in Myanmar can they earn the money in Burma, or do they have to come to Thailand?

If they have to come to Thailand, what is the procedure for them to get a long term working visa? Come on... we can help these folks!

I noticed quite a few Burmese sneak into Thailand so they can work road construction during the heat of the summer, earning 75-100 baht per day... if they were lucky.

Working, that is, until Immigration catches up with them and puts them in the night cage truck for the ride back to the border.

But to me, anyway, it's a vulgar practice that simply cheapens everyone involved.

Not just to you. It a vulgar practice to most people. So please, tell us the solution to the problem. You have worked with these folks up and down the border and you have answers to these questions. Please give us some viable working suggestions. In today's society, how do these people earn enough money to feed their children? How to we change the existing conditions? No complaints, please. Solutions.

Edited February 11, 2009 by FolkGuitar

[Ajarn]

They are not Thai, nor are they longnecks either.

O/K they are not Thai and their necks are not long but if you are not answering my questions why bother replying?

To show your stupid ignorance and to tell you the truth.

C'mon Ajarn, ease up, but then again perhaps you have been having a bad day (perhaps a few bad days by the look of it )

The guy asked a civil (and reasonable) question and you come back with a bag of vitriol

Why don't you stop whining about my responses

[Puwa]

It is simply not true that it is the only way for a tribal person to earn cash.

I'm sure you're correct, but just for the sake of those who don't know, perhaps you can tell us some of these other ways.

Considering the rate of unemployment in Myanmar can they earn the money in Burma, or do they have to come to Thailand?

If they have to come to Thailand, what is the procedure for them to get a long term working visa? Come on... we can help these folks!

I noticed quite a few Burmese sneak into Thailand so they can work road construction during the heat of the summer, earning 75-100 baht per day... if they were lucky.

Working, that is, until Immigration catches up with them and puts them in the night cage truck for the ride back to the border.

But to me, anyway, it's a vulgar practice that simply cheapens everyone involved.

Not just to you. It a vulgar practice to most people. So please, tell us the solution to the problem. You have worked with these folks up and down the border and you have answers to these questions. Please give us some viable working suggestions. In today's society, how do these people earn enough money to feed their children? How to we change the existing conditions? No complaints, please. Solutions.

No one has easy answers to these questions. The point is that there are probably a half million to a million ethnic minority people from Burma earning a living in Thailand, as farm hands, day laborers, factory workers, etc. It's not great work and it's often semi-legal at best, but that's the reality. The reason the Padaung in question are in the tourist villages is not because there are no other opportunities for them (the men anyway--granted it's hard to envision the women working away from home), but because someone else has seen an opportunity for himself to make money from their peculiar practice. In terms of solutions, since these folk are farmers, helping them to improve and secure their land, and market what they grow is a good start. The problem with the tourist "villages" is that they are not genuine villages based on an agricultural economy, but pseudo-villages in which people are paid to sit around and be observed. If people had land and were farming and living as they normally would, then having a tourist component wouldn't be so unseemly.

Well, seeing that they are farmers, helping them improve their out

Edited February 11, 2009 by Puwa

[FolkGuitar]

[sNIP]

In terms of solutions, since these folk are farmers, helping them to improve and secure their land, and market what they grow is a good start. The problem with the tourist "villages" is that they are not genuine villages based on an agricultural economy, but pseudo-villages in which people are paid to sit around and be observed. If people had land and were farming and living as they normally would, then having a tourist component wouldn't be so unseemly.

Good ideas! The village that I mentioned in my post, the one in the Mae Sa valley, does have all of the central land of the village as farm land, with the houses on the periphery. That's where the people in the village grow most of their food. But they still need cash to pay the doctors. They need cash to bribe the officials so they can remain in the Kingdom. The men DO work out of the village as day labor, and with the illegally gotten papers, they are able to remain in Thailand to do that day labor without worry of deportation for them or their families. But they have to pay cash for those papers. That is where the tourists can help! Tourists bring cash. They can spend it in air conditioned comfort while gawking at traditional Thai dancers in costumes with ferocious masks who perform for them at the Kantoke Dinner show, or they can spend it while walking around what is in essence a perfect reproduction of a Hill Tribe village and watch people in traditional Thai costumes weave cloth, pound rice, or work in the fields in these villages. One seems to be acceptable and the other is called watching people at the zoo? I'm confused.

I guess maybe what is needed is some real philanthropic organizations or people to purchase land for them, supply fertilizer and seed, and do this on a large enough scale to provide for thousands of people. Frankly, I don't think that's going to happen very soon. It takes a lot of farm land to provide enough crops for personal use with enough left over for sales to get needed cash. Right now, even though the Royal Agricultural Projects help hundreds of Hmong families, there are sill many thousands of Hmong not able to take advantage of it despite the fact that the money is coming from a very large and giving pool. So it seems that, at least for right now, the best way for these hill tribe folks to get the cash that they need to survive is by having the tourists visit their villages and buy their wares. It beats starving.

We all mean well. We just don't have either the money, the knowledge, the skills, etc., etc., to feed thousands of people so we do what we can.

Edited February 11, 2009 by FolkGuitar

[john b good]

They are not Thai, nor are they longnecks either.

O/K they are not Thai and their necks are not long but if you are not answering my questions why bother replying?

To show your stupid ignorance and to tell you the truth.

C'mon Ajarn, ease up, but then again perhaps you have been having a bad day (perhaps a few bad days by the look of it )

The guy asked a civil (and reasonable) question and you come back with a bag of vitriol

Why don't you stop whining about my responses

I'll stop "whining" when you stop your stupid and condescending posts, I do not believe that you are an authority on all things pertaining to Thailand (even though it appears that you claim to be the oracle of the millennium)

Edited February 11, 2009 by john b good

[Ajarn]

They are not Thai, nor are they longnecks either.

O/K they are not Thai and their necks are not long but if you are not answering my questions why bother replying?

To show your stupid ignorance and to tell you the truth.

C'mon Ajarn, ease up, but then again perhaps you have been having a bad day (perhaps a few bad days by the look of it )

The guy asked a civil (and reasonable) question and you come back with a bag of vitriol

Why don't you stop whining about my responses

I'll stop "whining" when you stop your stupid and condescending posts, I do not believe that you are an authority on all things pertaining to Thailand (even though it appears that you claim to be the oracle of the millennium)

You believe what you want, as I will believe what I want.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Ajarn

[sassienie]

It would be cheaper and more conveinient to visit my wife`s family, who are a pain in the neck.

[Blinky Bill]

It would be cheaper and more conveinient to visit my wife`s family, who are a pain in the neck.

Sass, you must feel at home when visiting them.