Prospective Marriage Or Spouse Visa For Oz?

[OzzyBloke]

Myself and my finance are going to Thailand in 3 weeks to apply for a visa, get docs certified, police/hospital checks etc. Which one it is we've changed our minds a few times, so we need some advice from those who have been there before.

She has been living virtually full time (- 6 weeks) in Australia for 17 months now on a single then ME tourist visa.

We did the traditional Buddhist wedding in December but did not formalise at the Ampur office (was set on fiancée visa then).

If it's the fiancée route then I don't get why we need to have a letter from a celebrant for the application. I'll have to pick an arbitrary date as we don't know when she'll be back here! (and get that done in < 3 weeks which may not be possible due to other factors).

Will the long time she's been here and the fact we've done the Buddhist wedding play any part in which visa is the better option?

Go for the fiancee visa or marry legally in Thailand and apply for the Spouse visa a few days later?

[david96]

IMO you would be better to legalise your marriage at the Amphur office and apply for the 309/100 visa, you have 17 months of living together in Australia which should be easy to prove. Get married under Thai Law.

[lioness]

The reason you need a NOM when applying for the Fiance Visa is that the Australian embassy want to see Proof ( or what they class as proof ) of your intended marriage.

A NOM is easy to obtain, just find a celebrant in the local paper or yellow pages, pick a date ( you can change that later to suit ) and they will provide you with a NOM immediately.

The fact that you have been living together will only benefit in as much as proving your relationship. If you are applying for whatever Visa you decide on in Thailand bring proof of your living together with you and some letters from friends in Australia supporting this fact, together with photos of the 2 of you together.

If applying for the Visa outside of Australia she must be outside of Australia when it is granted, and this could take 2 - 4 months.

Best of luck

[bridge]

In the absence of a legal recognised marriage, you might also want to consider a spouse visa (309/100) on the basis of a de facto relationship.

Have a look at Regulation_1.15A.pdf of the Migration Regulations for the definition of a de facto relationship

Regards

bridge

[OzzyBloke]

The reason you need a NOM when applying for the Fiance Visa is that the Australian embassy want to see Proof ( or what they class as proof ) of your intended marriage.

A NOM is easy to obtain, just find a celebrant in the local paper or yellow pages, pick a date ( you can change that later to suit ) and they will provide you with a NOM immediately.

The fact that you have been living together will only benefit in as much as proving your relationship. If you are applying for whatever Visa you decide on in Thailand bring proof of your living together with you and some letters from friends in Australia supporting this fact, together with photos of the 2 of you together.

If applying for the Visa outside of Australia she must be outside of Australia when it is granted, and this could take 2 - 4 months.

Best of luck

Thanks guys, it looks like getting married and applying for a spouse visa may be the better way to go, however do you think there would be any negatives from marrying at the amphur and applying for the visa within about 2 weeks - ie. too short? (Rember we did do the traditional ceremony in December)

I haven't seen any requirement for myself having to have a freedom to marry certificate before doing this in Thailand (my fiancee already has one) - will I need one?

Bridge, if we were going to go for a de-facto I would think the spouse would be a better option. Is it possible the embassy may take objection to us requesting tourist visas, then turning around and caliming time spent on a tourist visa as evidence of de-facto? I really don't know.

[bridge]

The reason you need a NOM when applying for the Fiance Visa is that the Australian embassy want to see Proof ( or what they class as proof ) of your intended marriage.

A NOM is easy to obtain, just find a celebrant in the local paper or yellow pages, pick a date ( you can change that later to suit ) and they will provide you with a NOM immediately.

The fact that you have been living together will only benefit in as much as proving your relationship. If you are applying for whatever Visa you decide on in Thailand bring proof of your living together with you and some letters from friends in Australia supporting this fact, together with photos of the 2 of you together.

If applying for the Visa outside of Australia she must be outside of Australia when it is granted, and this could take 2 - 4 months.

Best of luck

Thanks guys, it looks like getting married and applying for a spouse visa may be the better way to go, however do you think there would be any negatives from marrying at the amphur and applying for the visa within about 2 weeks - ie. too short? (Rember we did do the traditional ceremony in December)

I haven't seen any requirement for myself having to have a freedom to marry certificate before doing this in Thailand (my fiancee already has one) - will I need one?

Bridge, if we were going to go for a de-facto I would think the spouse would be a better option. Is it possible the embassy may take objection to us requesting tourist visas, then turning around and caliming time spent on a tourist visa as evidence of de-facto? I really don't know.

OzzyBloke,

A lot of people are under the mistaken belief that if they are married, that will somehow better their chances in obtaining a spouse visa over those who apply by virtue of their de facto relationship - this is not the case.

The Migration Regulations are very specific. Firstly, a spouse can be either de facto or de jure (married). Obviously, one has to meet the definition of being married or in a de facto relationship - See the link to Regulation 1.15A I posted earlier.

Secondly, whether the relationship is one of marriage or de facto, it is a common requirement of both that the parties to the relationship must be able to establish that the relationship is genuine and continuing. Have a look at the topic I posted on the 04/01/09 in relation to what is required to establish that a relationship is genuine and continuing:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2445835

Therefore, in answer to your question: "however do you think there would be any negatives from marrying at the amphur and applying for the visa within about 2 weeks - ie. too short"?. My answer to that would be two fold. Firstly, are they married or in a de facto relationship pursuant Regulation 1.15A? Secondly, are they are able to establish that the relationship is genuine and continuing? Ultimately it is a question of fact, but given that you have both been together for 17 months - I would say probably yes.

Finally, I am not really sure what you mean with regards to the following statement: Bridge, if we were going to go for a de-facto I would think the spouse would be a better option. Is it possible the embassy may take objection to us requesting tourist visas, then turning around and claiming time spent on a tourist visa as evidence of de-facto? I really don't know. There is no negative inference to be drawn from the time spent on a tourist visa before applying for a spouse visa.

Feel free to PM or post a reply if you are still uncertain

Regards

bridge

Edited February 10, 2009 by bridge

[OzzyBloke]

Thanks for the replies. Although still not 100% certain which is the best option I've found out the No Impediment to Marriage is something I had overlooked. Will this be required by me for a finacee application?

I have read in some places that this form has to be obtained from the Australian embassy in Bangkok, certified, translated into Thai, certified again before it can be used for marriage in Thailand (or fiancée application I guess…).

Is this true? I rang DFAT today, downloaded their form and can get it signed at their office in town tomorrow. Is this suitable or does it have to be done Bangkok? While on the subject I can't find any info if I just fill out the "Male" column, or have to fill out both. Every other form has some instructions on how to fill out. Any ideas?

Bridge, from your post and upload it looks like we would qualify for the de-facto visa so I guess we do have all 3 options open. Is 1 quicker than the other for lodging the app (not the result - just the lodging).

[thommo46]

Hi Ozzybloke, I got married in Nov. 2008 while my g/f now wife was on holidays in Aust. We planned to put in Spousal Visa in Aust. but found out her 6 year old son would not be included on the visa, as he had to be with her at the time of submission. It cost approx $2040 to lodge in Aust. only cost approx $1400 to lodge in Thailand. I think you need a letter from Aust. Embassy to say you are ok to marry eg, already married or divorced. My wife went home on the 10th of January and lodged spousal visa on the 20th at Aust. embassy expecting to have interview that day, but things have changed, you have to lodge at thai cc building ( so thai's get their cut of the action) .She went back on the 10th February for interview got phone call on the 16th February with approval for both her and son to migrate to Aust.

I do stress what Bridge said ,you have to have a good application and leave no stone unturned, be truthful and accurate. I would go to amphor and get marriage papers. If you can afford it get a thai to do all paper work and take you to all the different offices .

Best of luck.

Thommo, Brisbane.

[OzzyBloke]

Thanks Thommo and congratulations! We have decided to apply for the spouse visa. I got a certified certificate of no marriage impediment last week and we plan to marry in the local amphor office near Sukhothai (we need to get other documents from there and her house as well). Finalising the application at the moment.

I can only go back for 2 weeks. I want to do all the running around while I'm there and, unfortunately, leave her while its being processed. So our plan is to land in Bangkok Thursday night, apply for the police check Friday, go to Sukhothai and get married, take daughter to Chang Mai and translate/certify all her docs as well as get the medicals done, return to Bangkok and pickup the police check and lodge the application.

I think, but am not certain, this is the correct order to maximize the 2 weeks?

Also do you know if can we get the medicals in Chang Mai before lodging the application?

Lastly I note you said her son had to be present when submitted, but is that necessary if submitting at the VFS? (Her daughter is not coming out as part of this application but still needs to be listed and have a medical).

[thommo46]

I meant by being with her in Thailand and not in Aust. submitting the application. If I we had lodged in Australia he could not be included on her spousal visa, which meant he could not come to australia with her in March. If you want to get her included later on a subclass 445 approx $160 and a form 1002 cost free. If she decides to visit Aust. with you , I think you have 2 years to lodge the necessary forms at the Aust. embassy , which is the time her spouse(provisional) sub clause 309 visa is approved for a spouse (migrant) subclass 100 visa. After migrant visa is granted for your wife you will have to fork out another $1400 for a visa application for her daughter.

If you want you can pm me and I can ring you if you give me Thai no. for contact.

I did not know a child was involved. Why does the child needs a medical? She is not going with you. You will only have to get another one later if she is to visit Australia.

Thommo.

[fishhooks]

Child still requires medical, even if not included in the original application and not travelling in the initial stage of the 309 Visa.

I would imagine, but not sure that if child is also to migrate later and thus subject to a further application (at normal full cost), a further medical for the child would be required.

[Sporting Dog]

You can add a dependant onto a spouse visa (309) up to point it is finalised (ie two years after arrival). I have just done it and I didn't have to pay any extra fees for subclass 445 (didn't pay $160??).

My wifes daughter has just joined us - after we sent in the paperwork to make her 309 permanent, but before it has been granted. The only extra cost was another medical for the daughter - she had one back in 06 before my wife first came out and then another one when we did the 445 in 08..

the Dept in Oz has been very understanding and helpful with regard to the late addition - even to the point of holding the final decision until daughter got into the country so she could be part of my wife's original applicaton.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Sporting Dog

[Elwood62]

good luck and keep us informed how it all goes. thanks

[OzzyBloke]

Thanks guys.

Yep, child still needs to have a medical even if not travelling.

Found out at VFS that if under 11 (or was it 10).. they don't need to complete the whole medical forms (just 1st page) and only need a urine test not a blood test.

Thats good to know that they can be added up to the final decision without forking out another $1400 - cheers!