Are Highly Paid Expats Less Interested In Local Culture?

[dave9988]

"According to the study’s executive summary, which was distributed to the press, the highest Thai-language fluency among expatriates was to be found among members of the lowest paying jobs in industries such as tourism, teaching, and small-scale NGO work. Whereas the least proficient Thai speakers were heavily concentrated in the high-paying professional sectors of business, finance, and regional marketing."

link

[richard_smith237]

"According to the study’s executive summary, which was distributed to the press, the highest Thai-language fluency among expatriates was to be found among members of the lowest paying jobs in industries such as tourism, teaching, and small-scale NGO work. Whereas the least proficient Thai speakers were heavily concentrated in the high-paying professional sectors of business, finance, and regional marketing."

link

Is this because they have less time? Is it also because at their level the majority of people they come into contact with within their business world speaks the international business language competently enough to continue to do business?

I'm sure those in the 'high-paying professional sectors of business' have time for Culture, but learning a single nation language while carrying out their more highly paid tasks keeps them busier and takes on greater importance. In these higher paid rolls interpreters are more often than not available.

[noahvail]

"According to the study's executive summary, which was distributed to the press, the highest Thai-language fluency among expatriates was to be found among members of the lowest paying jobs in industries such as tourism, teaching, and small-scale NGO work. Whereas the least proficient Thai speakers were heavily concentrated in the high-paying professional sectors of business, finance, and regional marketing."

link

Is this because they have less time? Is it also because at their level the majority of people they come into contact with within their business world speaks the international business language competently enough to continue to do business?

I'm sure those in the 'high-paying professional sectors of business' have time for Culture, but learning a single nation language while carrying out their more highly paid tasks keeps them busier and takes on greater importance. In these higher paid rolls interpreters are more often than not available.

I'd guess that a lot of these highly-paid execs don't spend a lot of time in one country, but are shifted around to give them experience throughout an organization (I'm talking about multi-nationals, which I'm guessing make up the highest % of these highly-paid execs.). So that wouldn't give them a whole lot of time to learn more than the basic rudiments of culture.

[Sabum]

Well if you don't have a Thai girlfriend and dont have Thai customers..... then you probably don't speak Thai... like me. Doesn't mean I'm rich or a big exec, just my interactions every day are all not in Thai so I never get a chance to really learn, unless I go to school to learn.

[kiakaha]

I dont think it depends on the pay scale. It depends on the individual person.

[wamberal]

When I worked in Thailand (on a good package, including full expatriate terms) I was certainly interested in Thai culture. I read and travelled widely, and learned a lot about the country, the culture, and the people. However, at work I was surrounded by Thai staff who wanted to improve their English, so I always spoke English.

I did have a Thai girlfriend at the time, and I thought we would get married eventually and leave Thailand, so I encouraged her to improve her English.

It is pretty obvious that expats in lower paid professions and occupations are going to be dealing with customers and staff who either do not speak English, or do not want to transact business other than in their own language - thus the incentive to learn to read and speak Thai. Regrettably, even though I am now married happily to a Thai woman, I can do neither - although I can survive in Thailand for a while using a few very basic words of Phasa Thai.

[Spee]

"Are Highly Paid Expats Less Interested In Local Culture?"

Ah ... another thread about relativities and generalities.

Highly paid is a relative term. What is a lot to some could be a pittance to others. Local culture is also a relative term. Local culture could be hi-so dinner parties, hangin' out in Soi Cowboy saloons, or simple living in a small country village.

So all I can do is express this expat's own sentiments. This expat makes more than some but definitely not as much as others. This expat is interested in local culture, but mostly that which is out in the country away from the big cities.

[think_too_mut]

"Are Highly Paid Expats Less Interested In Local Culture?"

Ah ... another thread about relativities and generalities.

Highly paid is a relative term. What is a lot to some could be a pittance to others. Local culture is also a relative term. Local culture could be hi-so dinner parties, hangin' out in Soi Cowboy saloons, or simple living in a small country village.

Is it?

Is 600K baht per month + 150K for house + car and driver + international school + 1st class health + 2 biz class return tixs "relative"?

Give me a break.

The "research" should also point that "highly paid expats" do not immerse in local daily life and culture:

- they can never be seen riding in the tray of pick up trucks or baht buses or on motorbikes;

- their wives never run a food stall in the street

- they eat less somtum than anybody else

- they don't know what mekong and laokhao are

- they don't drink beer with ice

What <deleted> life do they live then on that high money?

[thaihome]

I'd guess that a lot of these highly-paid execs don't spend a lot of time in one country, but are shifted around to give them experience throughout an organization (I'm talking about multi-nationals, which I'm guessing make up the highest % of these highly-paid execs.). So that wouldn't give them a whole lot of time to learn more than the basic rudiments of culture.

That is probably most true. Unlike most of the lower paid expats, the MNC expats generally are not here by choice, but are here for a specfic period of time or duration of a project. Though they may like Thailand very much (compared to other countries), they are ready to go most anywhere when asked [told].

TH

[Jungian]

I don't know what you consider high paid I certainly make more than any English teacher I have ever heard of. But there may be some validity to the claim that the lower paid foreigners speak more Thai and I would suggest that is because they are forced to live among common Thai people that do not speak English either because they have had poor education in English or no education.

I have lived in Thailand for 5 years now and I can get by at best in Thai. My wife speaks fluent English and was educated in Australia and the USA where we met and lived for some 10 years, all of my colleagues are Thai but speak fluent English and were educated outside of Thailand and the small village where I live is 99% Thai but all of the Thai residents are educated i.e. doctors, lawyers, teachers and administration types whom all speak English fluently. My Thai in laws also speak fluent English and with the exception of my mother-in-law have all been educated in Western countries, thus speaking Thai has not been a priority for me. As far as culture goes I have absorbed most of it and I have had no problems socially.

I hear horror stories from other foreigners and I do not understand because I have not had these experiences but what I have surmised is that foreigners having problems with Thais are generally dealing with uneducated Thais who may be looking for a meal ticket.

[henryalleman]

Its because many of this high paid expats are living an their own heavily guarded compounds like Nitchada estate in BKK. The only Thai people you see there are the staff. They have their own foreign food supermarket ( Villa Market), club, travel agency, restaurant and other shops.

They have not any interest in Thai culture., they just live in their own expat community.

[aussiejosh]

How do you define a highly paid expat? lol

[MJo]

Its because many of this high paid expats are living an their own heavily guarded compounds like Nitchada estate in BKK. The only Thai people you see there are the staff. They have their own foreign food supermarket ( Villa Market), club, travel agency, restaurant and other shops.

They have not any interest in Thai culture., they just live in their own expat community.

You could say the same for every group of foreigners. Backbackers just hanging out in KSR with other travelers, isan pensioners hanging out in the local expat bar and so on...

Lot depends on individual, those taking a year assignment with MNC's that come with foreign wife and kids propably do not get that much exposure to thai culture but there is loads of "highly paid" guys around having thai wife and family for years and living perfectly normal thai life in the suburbs. They do drive baht bus, eat somtam and drink mekong if that's it the only definition of thai culture...

What comes to language, wambral is right. higher up and with MNC's business language is english so you need to study in your own time if you are to learn it. Someone teaching or working say construction sites etc is exposed to thai language 10 hrs a day and tend to pick it up quite fast as there is no another way to function. Actually i know few guys in construction that speak burmese. Although their site has over 500 expats. 1 farang and 500 burmese...

[GuestHouse]

I can see this is already alternating between the idea of 'poor but happy' and 'spite and envy'.

As Kiahaha points out, it's not the money, it's the individual. I know a number of highly paid expats who speak, read and write Thai and plenty of expats living on 'limited means' who can just about muster enough Thai to order a beer.

In response to Think_too_Mut, I suspect that most highly expats live as different a life from people on lower incomes in Thailand as they do in their home country.

My own observation is that I have never worked in any situation in Thailand in which the majority of the staff and customers are not Thai, add to that local authorities and government officers and you have a Thai environment - Although perhaps better educated and with a different accent than that you might find at some local up country business - nevertheless Thai, Thai speaking and awash with Thai Culture.

[Spee]

"Are Highly Paid Expats Less Interested In Local Culture?"

Ah ... another thread about relativities and generalities.

Highly paid is a relative term. What is a lot to some could be a pittance to others. Local culture is also a relative term. Local culture could be hi-so dinner parties, hangin' out in Soi Cowboy saloons, or simple living in a small country village.

Is it?

Is 600K baht per month + 150K for house + car and driver + international school + 1st class health + 2 biz class return tixs "relative"?

Give me a break.

The "research" should also point that "highly paid expats" do not immerse in local daily life and culture:

- they can never be seen riding in the tray of pick up trucks or baht buses or on motorbikes;

- their wives never run a food stall in the street

- they eat less somtum than anybody else

- they don't know what mekong and laokhao are

- they don't drink beer with ice

What <deleted> life do they live then on that high money?

A very judgmental if not uni-dimensional viewpoint methinks.

[t.s]

"According to the study’s executive summary, which was distributed to the press, the highest Thai-language fluency among expatriates was to be found among members of the lowest paying jobs in industries such as tourism, teaching, and small-scale NGO work. Whereas the least proficient Thai speakers were heavily concentrated in the high-paying professional sectors of business, finance, and regional marketing."

link

you do undersatnd satire, right?

[BarryM]

"Are Highly Paid Expats Less Interested In Local Culture?"

Ah ... another thread about relativities and generalities.

Highly paid is a relative term. What is a lot to some could be a pittance to others. Local culture is also a relative term. Local culture could be hi-so dinner parties, hangin' out in Soi Cowboy saloons, or simple living in a small country village.

Is it?

Is 600K baht per month + 150K for house + car and driver + international school + 1st class health + 2 biz class return tixs "relative"?

Give me a break.

The "research" should also point that "highly paid expats" do not immerse in local daily life and culture:

- they can never be seen riding in the tray of pick up trucks or baht buses or on motorbikes;

- their wives never run a food stall in the street

- they eat less somtum than anybody else

- they don't know what mekong and laokhao are

- they don't drink beer with ice

What <deleted> life do they live then on that high money?

A very judgmental if not uni-dimensional viewpoint methinks.

Exactly. They don't drive their Benz's into crowded bus stops, carry guns in public entertainment venues, evade taxes with impunity, treat domestic staff and "lower class" people like animals or discriminate overtly on the basis of skin colour and country of origin either.

[Moonrakers]

555555555555555555

16 posts of discussion so far on an article from "Not the nation"

It's a BOGUS made up report that is purely satirical guys!!

[aussiejosh]

LOL, I just read the article and all i can think is... LOL

[Moonrakers]

At the low end there was a cluster of data representing near-destitute men over the age of 65 in Chiang Mai and Udon who, despite incomes lower than the average factory worker, still didn’t speak more than 30 words of bar-Thai. “These lifers have nothing to offer and have stopped trying,” suggested Murkh. “They’re pretty much just waiting to die, preferably beneath a once-a-month rented sex-worker.”

Discus..................

[thaihome]

Its because many of this high paid expats are living an their own heavily guarded compounds like Nitchada estate in BKK. The only Thai people you see there are the staff. They have their own foreign food supermarket ( Villa Market), club, travel agency, restaurant and other shops.

They have not any interest in Thai culture., they just live in their own expat community.

You do realize that many well off Thais live in Nitchada, and there are other even more exclusive compounds that are majority Thai (Panya Village comes to mind).

TH

[dave9988]

Where are these compounds exactly? In the CBD?

[Maizefarmer]

"According to the study’s executive summary, which was distributed to the press, the highest Thai-language fluency among expatriates was to be found among members of the lowest paying jobs in industries such as tourism, teaching, and small-scale NGO work. Whereas the least proficient Thai speakers were heavily concentrated in the high-paying professional sectors of business, finance, and regional marketing."

link

Another way of looking at it.

The best group of ex-pat thai speakers, in my experiance, are those who live here as PR's and run their own businesses. Income though is not the issue, however, most of them tend (not all) to be in the top few percent of Thai income earners.

Edited February 13, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[think_too_mut]

"Are Highly Paid Expats Less Interested In Local Culture?"

Ah ... another thread about relativities and generalities.

Highly paid is a relative term. What is a lot to some could be a pittance to others. Local culture is also a relative term. Local culture could be hi-so dinner parties, hangin' out in Soi Cowboy saloons, or simple living in a small country village.

Is it?

Is 600K baht per month + 150K for house + car and driver + international school + 1st class health + 2 biz class return tixs "relative"?

Give me a break.

The "research" should also point that "highly paid expats" do not immerse in local daily life and culture:

- they can never be seen riding in the tray of pick up trucks or baht buses or on motorbikes;

- their wives never run a food stall in the street

- they eat less somtum than anybody else

- they don't know what mekong and laokhao are

- they don't drink beer with ice

What <deleted> life do they live then on that high money?

A very judgmental if not uni-dimensional viewpoint methinks.

While hi-so parties, Soi Cowboy or simple living in Nakhon Nowhere gives them at least 3 dimensions?

Try to get into their "1 dimension". You might want that, but you can't. While they can always drop the tools and default into the Thai common environment.

Getting into that "1 dimension" takes a lot. To live anywhere and the life is always the same. Just the scenery changes.

If Thai language and understanding of Thai culture could play any role, people like Stickman (he made himself a public fugure, IMO, no problem mentioning him) would be storming Thailand, running Shell Oil one year, Marriott hotel chain in another, Exon the third, IBM Thailand further and on and on onto whatever they want.

But, they can't.

[GuestHouse]

Thank you Think_Too_Mut, you have given us a very clear insight into just how little you know about/understand the life of MNC expats.

Edited February 13, 2009 by GuestHouse

[think_too_mut]

Thank you Think_Too_Mut, you have given us a very clear insight into just how little you know about/understand the life of MNC expats.

Oh, you know. An passive object, being dispatched where the employer thinks it is appropriate.

Have you tried to be a local hire in Japan? Or anywhere?

[GuestHouse]

Use your noddle T_T_M, if company are willing to spend large amounts of money on assigning an expat and his family anywhere, do you not think they might also secure the agreement of the employee and his family to take the post and if so does that suggest passivity? I think you'll find the vast majority of expats assigned overseas by MNCs have a pretty wide choice in what assignments they take/do not take and on what are/are not acceptable T&Cs.

--

I started my career taking local posts - Forgive me if I'm not inclined to do so mid career. (I don't know many career expats who are - Local Hire is seldom where the money is).

[JetsetBkk]

How many times are we going to have this silly "NotTheNation" story posted?

It's already been done here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Scientists-D...io-t199902.html

and here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Phut-Pasa-Th...ay-t200659.html

Short memory some posters have...

[dave9988]

YASOTHON – Long-time Thailand resident and chronic pessimist Robert Arnold celebrated his 10th consecutive year of portending the imminent doom of the country with a long, dissembling rant to no one in particular on Sunday night at his Yasothon bar. The 56-year old expatriate and owner of multiple failed small business ventures spent 45 minutes telling seven different uninterested people his various conclusions encompassing themes such as “This whole place is falling apart,” “These people have no clue how to run a country,” and “I should write a fuc_king book.” For the 482nd consecutive time he concluded that the nation was destined for complete economic ruin as a direct result of its citizens not heeding his freely dispensed and infallible advice.

Arnold, whose own entrepreneurial history includes three bankruptcies and a disastrous foray into the Stock Exchange of Thailand in 2001, has plenty of advice for the Kingdom’s financial captains. “The taxes are way too high,” he insists, despite having avoided paying 40% of his legal obligation through the clumsy laundering and under-reporting of his own meager profits. “They make it impossible to run a business with all their dumb rules and regulations.” Arnold also criticizes the government for having allowing the baht to appreciate in 2007, which severely devalued his cash reserve of US$15,000 which he bought with baht in 2005 at the exchange rate of 41.5/1, citing at the time “next year’s collapse of this worthless currency” and “the rock-solid safety of the almighty dollar.”

Sunday’s tirade, which was alternatively directed towards two unresponsive Israeli backpackers at the bar, Arnold’s third wife Pun, a newly recruited non-English speaking bar waitress named Nong, and an unconscious Vietnam War veteran whose name could not be verified at press time, marks exactly ten entire years in which Arnold has been offering his sage observations to an unappreciative public, including 539 letters to the Bangkok Post, 129 of which have been published. Having previously blamed society’s ills on corrupt politicians, clueless bureaucrats, inferior Western culture, inferior Eastern culture, the IMF, Warren Buffett, liberal media bias, rabid soi dogs, Islamist fascism, Thaksin Shinawatra, and all Caucasian women, Arnold is proud of his role as a watchdog and seer.

“I’ve been around a long time,” he explains, “and I’ve learned a lot,” possibly referring to his associate’s degree from the Community College of Akron in 1972. “I got common sense, which these (Thai) people could use, and I make the connections that no one else sees.” The twice-divorced, bitterly unhappy American with deeply repressed maternal hostility also notes: “I really understand human nature.” The herpes-infected, serial-philandering, borderline alcoholic tax-evader also loves to quote famous authors whose books he has not actually read to illustrate his points. “Live not by lies,” he says often. “Solzhenitsyn. Goddamn right.”

Despite having been wrong about everything Thai-related since 1999, including predicting a drop in tourist arrivals following new visa restrictions, a major terrorist bombing in Nana Plaza “by the end of 2005,” an assassination within the Royal family, the “impossibility” of a coup in September 2006, and the total mechanical failure of Suvarnabhumi Airport’s runways, Arnold remains convinced in his own insight and powers of prophecy. “The economy is going to collapse,” he insisted, this time caused by “the housing bubble in Bangkok, Chinese-engineered biological warfare, and Obama’s tax plan.” Regarding previous failed predictions of economic meltdown to be caused by corruption, the coup, the 2006 election, the 2007 election, the enforcement of 2am closing times, two-tier pricing, the indoor smoking ban, and the ridiculous price of TRUEvisions cable TV, Arnold simply said, “You’ll see.”

http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=707

[think_too_mut]

Use your noddle T_T_M, if company are willing to spend large amounts of money on assigning an expat and his family anywhere, do you not think they might also secure the agreement of the employee and his family to take the post and if so does that suggest passivity?

Passivity, of course. In September 2003. there were 44 foreigners in my office in Tokyo. All on expat packages. + me, a local hire on same (never lower) salary but no house and other perks.

You know today?

Only 1 foreigner remained - myself. All others either recalled or recalled and sent straight to the bin upon return. Mostly kicking and screaming while their parasite wives were showing the removalists how to pack back tons of leather sofas and massive armchairs.

But it was nice while it lasted. Jobwise, the guys were not bad albeit a bit cranky when you remove their training wheels.

Not a single one would have been able to win their job without being sent by the head office. Not a single one was asked to renegotiate and remain under local terms, some - especialy younger ones who had had a ball (even married) with Japanese ladies.

Local terms mean - 200K+ US$ salary, which is a bit higher than expat one but no perks.