Energy Drinks

[Mar]

Hello everyone,

I'm doing a little research on energy drinks. My company is looking to import some from Thailand and I would like to know your drink of choice. Other than Red Bull (already have exclusive rights), which is the best? Why?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best to your wonderful country. Hope to visit again soon.

Mar

[cdnvic]

Redbull (Kratindeng) is my first choice. If its not availible I usually opt for M-150.

Carabao is good in concert, but lousy as a beverage.

cv

[Richard Hall]

With Thailand energy drinks comes one essential disadvantage particularly if the product is targeted at a market other than Thai: Thai energy drinks are not carbonated. Thailand appears to be the only market consumers do not appreciate carbonation in energy drinks.

Anyway, Red Bull (Krating Daeng), market leader M-150 and Carabao Daeng are actually very equal in concept and taste and it appears market share is just a matter of advertising rather than quality.

By the way, it is not within the producer's policy (Otsospa) to market M-150 outside of Asia mainly because Western consumers can not make any reference as to the product name. Therefore, for export the alternative "Shark" is offered. Either uncabonated ex Thailand or alternatively carbonated ex Austria.

Because the Thai market has been pretty saturated now and is therefore extremely competitive more and more manufacturers look for opportunities outside of the country. Carabao Daeng is just in a stage to develop and offer a carbonated export version of their product while Otsospa has launched the new brand M-Max (canned and carbonated) being the first carbonated energy ever introduced into the Thai market. M-Max is surely an innovation here in the market but in my opinion its taste is not very pleasant (too sour).

Therefore, if looking for a new energy drink brand ex Thailand I strongly suggest defining the requirements of your target market(s) first because it appears like the Thai energy drinks are kind of odd compared to the rest of the world. Expats may recommend the one or the other product but possibly because the variety to choose from is kind of limited and hence the judgement not representative to establish what product is actually suitable for markets other than Thailand.

Anyway, hope the aforementioned info will be of some use to you. In addition I have sent you an e-mail regarding Zone® energy drink which is a new uncarbonated Thailand produced energy drink exclusively for the export market and therefore not being retailed here.

Best of luck,

Richard

Edited January 7, 2005 by Richard Hall

[cdnvic]

Kratindeng sells pretty good in Canada uncarbonated....even at the unholy price of $3 for a bottle

So will M-150 not be exported, or is it just that they don't pursue it actively?

btw.. thanks for the detailed info

cv

[Richard Hall]

Kratindeng sells pretty good in Canada uncarbonated....even at the unholy price of $3 for a bottle 

So will M-150 not be exported, or is it just that they don't pursue it actively?

btw.. thanks for the detailed info 

cv

Officially, Thailand is not supposed to export Krating Daeng to Canada because there is an agreement between Thailand's T. C. Pharmaceutical Industries Co. Ltd. (inventor of the classical energy drink several decades ago) and Red Bull in Austria. When the founder of Red Bull Austria came across the drink here in Thailand he acquired the license to market it anywhere in the world except for Thailand.

Eventually, that Austrian guy made Red Bull and hence the segment of energy drinks to the worldwide success of today. Needless to say that the Thai guys were certainly not stupid enough to give everything out of their hands and nevertheless T.C. Pharmaceuticals still holds the majority of 51% in the Austian enterprise.

In the meantime there exist already a Thai export version of Krating Daeng or better said Red Bull that comes in a golden stubby 250ml can. This product is indeed not carbonated and manufactured in Thailand while everything in those slender blue white Red Bull cans comes from Austria and is carbonated. Actually, those golden uncarbonated cans are just a line extension to cover those customers that do not get a kick out of the Austrian product. Nevertheless, it is assured that both products are not being mixed-up and steal market share from each other and therefore the different designs.

Anyway, the Red Bull global network is still heavily controlled and if someone intends to buy direct from the factory plenty of questions are being asked. Besides the usual arrogance one can expect from the big players in the business information need to be provided in terms of what is going to happen with the product and where it will be sent to. This way the manufacturer tries to avoid "gray" exports and imports and interference into their own policy and agreements with their official contract partners, agents and distributors.

If you can acquire Kraing Daeng made in Thailand in Canada and it is not the stubby golden can you can be assured that the product is the result from a "gray" business transaction but anyway, what prevents an independant legitimate company from acquiring product at a place like Makro and export it to any destination of choice?

The same goes for M-150. Otsospa does not want any Western importer or Thai exporter to buy the product from them and ship it around the world and will answer any enquiries accordingly. At the end, however, "gray" export/import business can certainly not fully prevented which is fortunate for the independant traders and eventually also for all the end-consumers in the world.

Edited January 7, 2005 by Richard Hall

[Gazza]

Richard, you certainly know your onions when it comes to the energy drink business.

But perhaps you can tell me something.

Why is it that women don't drink energy drinks?

I've asked a few and haven't got a satisfactory answer from them. I could understand perhaps it not being recommended for pregnant women..... but for healthy young 'uns??

[Richard Hall]

Richard, you certainly know your onions when it comes to the energy drink business.

But perhaps you can tell me something.

Why is it that women don't drink energy drinks?

I've asked a few and haven't got a satisfactory answer from them. I could understand perhaps it not being recommended for pregnant women..... but for healthy young 'uns??   

Well, let's give it a try to answer your question.

When energy drinks where originally launched (in Thailand) they targeted at the so called blue collar clientel. The energy booster for the hard working man to get through the day. If you look at those drinks there is nothing fancy on them. A thick syrup like sweet beverage in unattractive simple little brown bottles suitable to be hold in manly hard hands. The image has remained and got even more emphasized when the companies started to function as sponsors in real men sports such as muay thai and western style boxing.

Although everyone denies to ever get influenced by advertising this is not true at all (the millions of dollars spent should be evidence enough). Purposely, there was an exclusive aiming at male consumers and well, this should explain why at least Thai females rather stay away from these products.

Anyway, when the western countries (via Austria) started to adopt that product the approach was totally different. The product was introduced as a fancy drink of the new generation (Red Bull gives me wings) backed-up by cartoon comercials. No hard men, no boxers, no heroes. The brown glass bottles were replaced with a slender 180ml designer can different from those stubby ones regular soft drinks are being offered in. Simultanously, a slight carbonation was added and the taste was fine tuned. If someone wanted to be "in" the new energy drink was a must and logically all of a sudden the Thai redneck image (not meant offensive) was gone. No wonder the product got quickly adopted by the raver scene - those young yuppies that needed a boost allowing them to dance through the night. Red Bull found its way into cocktail glasses to be mixed with alcoholic drinks such as vodka and certainly was now consumed by some female consumers (at least the kind of flippy gals) as well. Afterall the entire marketing approach for energy drinks always targeted at the little different consumer. The product is basically an energy booster - in hard words call it kind of a drug. Surely no need for the good girl to go for it because reading through the bible in one night or set a world record in choir singing is not on the schedule.

Thailand, the birth place of this product segment, is still much different from the rest of the world but in the war of market shares slight adjustments started to be made. Red Bull Extra in 180ml cans was launched as a line extension (the first time ever an energy drink was offered in a can in Thailand) and the advertisement was adjusted. Young Thai yuppies and music of the young generation were the new media for the new approach. Otsospa gave it a similar shot with M-150. Nevertheless, it appeared that there was never a real break-through. Possibly three decades of an old image could not just be overcome overnight. A woman with an energy drink in her hand (particularly if it is not consumed from a fancy designer can) is therefore kind of an unusual image almost like a woman with a cigar. A Tom-Boy may give a darn while a Ladyboy may rather prefer to pass. So the simple answer to the original question is... image or fear of losing image.

The classical energy drink - a strong drink for hard men that need to perform (at least in Thailand), the nectar of the heroes while the female counterparts rather stick to Spy (wine cooler) to underline their femininity.

Cheers,

Richard

Edited January 8, 2005 by Richard Hall

[Gazza]

Wow! Thanks for the lengthy reply. I appreciate the time it must've taken you type it.

I figured it was an image thing, but what threw me a bit was that a couple of girls had tried to explain something to me by pointing to their stomaches. I assumed then that it wasn't recommended for pregnant women and that perhaps sometime in the past an urban myth arose saying that it was bad for all females.

Thanks again Richard.

[Mar]

Hello again,

Thanks for all the great info! I have some more research to do. Can someone remind me how much you pay in say a 7-11 for 150ml Krating Daeng (Red Bull). Also, what is the retail price for Carabao 250ml can (if such a creature exists in the Thai market)

Thanks again,

Mar

[andyadam]

Red bull 10 baht in 7-11, do a search on e bay!!!!!!!!!

[Richard Hall]

Hello again,

Thanks for all the great info!  I have some more research to do.  Can someone remind me how much you pay in say a 7-11 for 150ml Krating Daeng (Red Bull).  Also, what is the retail price for Carabao 250ml can (if such a creature exists in the Thai market)

Thanks again,

Mar

No, Carabao Daeng in cans in the Thai retail market. Export only. Bottles retailing at 10 Baht.

Red Bull Extra and M-Max are the only ones retailing in cans in Thailand.

[Gazza]

Hello again,

Thanks for all the great info!  I have some more research to do.  Can someone remind me how much you pay in say a 7-11 for 150ml Krating Daeng (Red Bull). 

Easy enough to remember prices of Red Bull and M150(used to be M100). 10 baht.

They're the only thing that I can recall that haven't increased in price in over 15 years.

Edited January 16, 2005 by Gazza

[francois]

hi'

have you ever tried red bull (in LOS), not the one they usely sell ...

the small bottle 10B ... drink one and give report

this is banned in europe.. too much speed in it?

francois

[Titus]

Don't forget "Shark" which also sell in large bottles in Thailand...

[schmokinn]

dont see anybody mentioning "lippo" here either???

[Darknight]

dont see anybody mentioning "lippo" here either???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My favourite since 15 years , red bull just gives me headaches by the way.

[penzman]

hi'

have you ever tried red bull (in LOS), not the one they usely sell ...

the small bottle  10B ... drink one and give report

this is banned in europe.. too much speed in it?

francois

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife says she had one once and got the shakes real bad. I won't dare try it as coffee only makes me chihuahua jittery.

[Richard Hall]

Lippovitan comes from Japan and is produced under license by Otsospa (the maker of M-150, Shark. Magnum .357, M-Max). Because of the licensing fees is retails a little bit more expensive than the local brands and due to the lack of intensive advertising it is more like a niche product here in Thailand with a small market share.

That the Thai Red Bull is a real knocker is more kind of a myth because as far as caffeine content is concerned it contains even smaller amounts than its Austrian counterpart. The Austrian law takes things more easy and hence the original Austrian formulation was not even allowed to be retailed in Germany because of its high caffeine content and eventually the formula needed to be adjusted. Austrian is kind of the center for energy drinks in Europe. Red Bull, Shark and also the in the Mid East very succesful brand Power Horse (producer the Austrain company Spitz) is manufactured there.

People that are not used to consume caffeine surely get the shake but a nicely brewed Espresso will have the same effect to them.

The Thai FDA limits the caffeine content per serving to 500mg and although Thailand has still the status of a developing country the local FDA takes its job indeed very seriously. No imported food/beverage product (includes even imported goods from highly sophisticated countries) may be sold here without prior registration with the FDA. ALL products manufactured at an industrial scale therefore bear an FDA registration number indentifying it to be safe for human consumption.

Cheers,

[corkscrew]

Redbull (Kratindeng) is my first choice. If its not availible I usually opt for M-150.

Carabao is good in concert, but lousy as a beverage.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What exactly is in these energy drinks? Just caffeine and sugar?

[tantantan]

Hi Richard

i have read all your responses to the various question posted. i appreciate your extensive knowledge on red bull. i hope you also can help me with my assignment on red bull. i was wondering if you can advice me on where to find more information on red bull other than the website.

p.s. i am doing research on the different perceptions of thai consumers and british consumers on red bull in their respective countries.

thank you very much. i look forward to hearing from you

tan

[Kringle]

I've tried them all on one occasion or another and none have ever done anything for me. Just taste sweet and the caffeine isn't high enough to do anything, at least to me.

Francois, It's caffeine in the drink, not speed.

[Soph]

Gazza - I dont personally drink energy drinks as I should imagine they are full of calories, and I steer clear of any type of sugary drinks - this may explain why the girls were pointing at their tummies?

[Boon Mee]

I've tried them all on one occasion or another and none have ever done anything for me. Just taste sweet and the caffeine isn't high enough to do anything, at least to me.

Francois, It's caffeine in the drink, not speed.

I can get a pretty good buzz off 'Katingdaeng' but prefer a nce hot cup of 'Cafe Sot' to get my caffine rush.

[mijan24]

Richard

Very informative postings - you certainly have a handle on your "energy" drinks.

"Lippo" certainly fits a niche market segment - I find "ladies" seem to opt for "it" rather than the "masculine/macho" brands - I wonder if the Lippo honchos have recognised this and stay away from the hard man image on purpose?

I think your bi-line says it all the second sentence oh so true:

German national living and working in Bangkok since February 2000. Founder of the trading company Tramaico Co. Ltd.

Real home is only where your heart is and not necessarily the place of the cradle of your birth.

Wishing you all the best.

Mijan24

PS: Richard hope you don't mind but I have adopted the last sentence of your signature - Any royalties involved will have to revolve around my shout next (the cheques in the mail). I would have included the Australian National bit - but we are trying to keep the land down under a little bit "hush hush" to conserve the "vegemite" supplies.

Vegemite and Marmite can be aligned to Kratingdang & Lippo:

Real men (Ozzies) have vegemite on their toast - whilst those lilly white waanabees (Pommies) stick with marmite on a muffin

Edited November 24, 2005 by mijan24

[skylar]

Real men (Ozzies) have vegemite on their toast - whilst those lilly white waanabees (Pommies) stick with marmite on a muffin   

On a muffin? I just don't think this is physically possible. Sweet and savoury are at the other ends of the flavour spectrum. It's be a more Thai thing to do

[thaibebop]

I hate energy drinks, unless you are including coffee.

[mogoso]

Red bull 10 baht in 7-11, do a search on e bay!!!!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's costing me about 30 baht for cans of carabao at my local markets. Of course I guess the transportation charges to the US have something to do with the cost.

[terdsak_12]

I'm a M150 man, Lippo is to fancy for me.

[astral]

I enjoy Lipovitan

[GU22]

On a muffin? I just don't think this is physically possible. Sweet and savoury are at the other ends of the flavour spectrum.

Would you be American? What is sold in the States as an "English muffin" is in fact a sort of cake, and nothing like a proper muffin, which is more bread like.

Marmite on crumpets; or on toast soldiers dipped into a boiled egg; yum! Vegemite is a poor imitation.

Back on topic, personally I prefer Carabao Daeng. I suffer from restless legs and I find others, Red Bull in particular, makes this worse. Maybe a higher caffeine content?

Whichever you chose, please, please, don't carbonate it!