Prime Minister Worries About Thailand Image

[bungy007]

From The Times (of London)

" The charmer making a mess of his country.The Prime Minister of Thailand, best friends at Eton with Boris Johnson, is presiding over a chaotic and callous regime.

However indignant you felt about him, and the calamitous mess over which he presides, it would be impossible ever to throw a shoe at a man such as Abhisit Vejjajiva. Among his peers, the new Prime Minister of Thailand challenges even Barack Obama for the title of World's Most Decent Leader.

As a young politician, he was a heart-throb among middle-aged Bangkok matrons. At Eton, where he was known by the name "Mark Vejj", he was best friends with Boris Johnson. He is handsome, youthful, brilliant, cosmopolitan, impeccably well mannered and rather posh. So when he gives a speech at his old university, Oxford, tomorrow, it is safe to assume that the audience at St John's College will be keeping its brogues securely laced.

But Mr Abhisit's charm should not be a distraction from ugly truths about what is happening in Thailand. In the past four years, it has gone from being one of the most free and stable countries of South-East Asia to one of its most chaotic and divided. Writers, academics and journalists have been imprisoned or hounded into exile for harmless comment on Thailand's monarchy. Helpless boat people have been chased out to sea to their deaths. Democratically elected governments have been forced out, first by the army and then by the power of the mob.

All of this has been done with the approval - sometimes passive, sometimes explicit - of the nice Mr Abhisit. The title of his talk at St John's tomorrow, "Taking on the Challenges of Democracy", could not be more appropriate, for Thailand's leader is indeed democratically challenged. Rarely since the days of Dr Faustus has a gifted and promising man achieved power through such grubby and disreputable means.

Since Mr Abhisit became the leader of the Democrat Party in 2005, there have been two general elections in Thailand. He boycotted the first one in 2006, which was won, for the third time in a row, by the man at the centre of 21st-century Thai politics, Thaksin Shinawatra. His next electoral test came in 2007, when he was defeated decisively. The greatest "challenge" of democracy for Mr Abhisit has been as simple as that - whenever they have been given a chance to elect him, Thai voters have chosen someone else.

Thaksin represents another challenge: a profoundly unsavoury politician who is adored by the majority of his own people. As Prime Minister, he used his great wealth to political and personal advantage (last year he and his wife were convicted in absentia of a multimillion-pound property cheat). In southern Thailand he ordered a brutal campaign against Islamic insurgents which left scores of innocent people dead.

Thaksin's version of the war on drugs was to license the police to execute without trial anyone they suspected of being a dealer. But for all of this, he changed for the better the lives of millions of rural Thais.

His cheap healthcare programme gave the poorest people access to affordable medical treatment for the first time ever. A micro-credit scheme allowed many villagers to lift themselves out of subsistence level poverty. But the majority of Thais chose him as their leader, time and again - and after he was forced into exile, and then criminally convicted, they have gone on voting for his political heirs and supporters.

By contrast Mr Abhisit owes his job, not to the will of his people, but to the support of powerful friends - and even they have required a comically large number of attempts to propel their boy to power. First there was the army, which drove Mr Thaksin into exile in a bloodless coup in 2006. Over the course of a year, the generals convened an assembly of tame delegates who rewrote the country's constitution to give Mr Abhisit a better chance of winning. To imagine the election which followed in footballing terms: the Democrat Party was playing downhill, against a team without a striker, in a game refereed by one of their dads. And still Thaksin's side won.

At this point, Mr Abhisit was helped out by a new and sinister force in Thailand - the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). At times he has had the decency to appear slightly embarrassed by this mob of yellow-shirted anti-Thaksin activists, led by a rich media owner and apparently supported by the Thai Queen. What exactly the PAD believes in is not easy to pin down, but at heart they want to strip the vote from those silly people who can't be trusted not to vote for Thaksin's side.

When they don't get their way, they resort to force, occupying first the Prime Minister's office and then Bangkok's international airport last year, in chaotic scenes that were broadcast across the world.

The Democrats have never employed such tactics themselves, but they have benefited from them. After the latest pro-Thaksin Government was forced from power by a court ruling last year, they formed a Government by jumping into bed not only with PAD supporters, but even former Thaksin cronies, under the watchful supervision of the army. Mr Abhisit might argue that these were political compromises necessary so that a decent man could finally get his hands on the levers of government. But in the three months since he became Prime Minister, he has come to look more like the puppet than the master of those who hoisted him to power.

A series of disgraceful incidents have made it harder than ever to understand what has happened to the liberalism for which he used to stand. In January, the Thai military beat up and set adrift some 1,000 boat people from Burma, scores of whom died at sea. Journalists and academics continue to be arrested and imprisoned under Thailand's Kafakaesque lèse-majesté law, under which a prison sentence of 12 years can be imposed for dispraise of the Thai King and his family.

At times, it has looked as if someone in power is consciously making a fool of Mr Abhisit - such as the speech he gave last week about the importance of media freedom, which was followed a few hours later by the arrest of the webmaster of an independent website.

Thailand is no Zimbabwe or China, and by comparison with most of their Asian neighbours, Thais are blessedly free and prosperous. But it has the alarming air of a democracy lurching into reverse and out of control, in which familiar freedoms are flying out of the window with unpredictable speed. It is all the more painful that this should be happening under a leader of such obvious talent, a man with all the qualifications except the essential one - democratic legitimacy".

Richard Lloyd Parry is Asia editor of The Times

Great post! Most of us agree that its time for Abhisit to step down. The corruption and anti-democratic slant to his administration is only getting worse and absolutely no good is coming from his clinging to power.

Still it beats having the 'beast of extra judiciary killings' or his cronies back at the helm. It takes time to rebuild after such rampant excess!

[catmac]

Abhisit's position is getting stronger and stronger every day.

Dream on, dear boy!

This government is entrenching its hold over the people by somewhat unsavory means, granted, but whether little Mark will be kept on as its figurehead/puppet is anyone's guess!

[Koo82]

Abhisit's position is getting stronger and stronger every day.

This government is entrenching its hold over the people by somewhat unsavory means, granted, but whether little Mark will be kept on as its figurehead/puppet is anyone's guess!

Little Mark! How cute!

One must say his position in <where> is getting stronger.

The reds said Abhisit is not their target. They aim at those behind him. They don't throw eggs to Abhisit after they think 1 egg now costs 3 Baht.

These people are supporting Abhisit

[Oberkommando]

Answering a few of Parry's allegations would carry more weight that the usual knee-jerk reaction of "they're all wrong!"

I'm not a shrink billing by hour. If he can't get even the basics right, I'm not going to waste time and effort on dissecting fantasies he built on those wrong premises.

Abhisit's position is getting stronger and stronger every day.

Red "people power" fizzled out, opposition is in disarray, coalition partners are busy strenghtening their own bases - there are no serious threats to his position at all.

At first I thought you were just trolling but now I am starting to worry. You can't actually be serious with even half the stuff you post surely?

The only threat to Mark Vejj's position will be elections.

You know it, he knows it and that's why they won't happen.

It's amusing when a prominent Western publication points out a few unsavoury truths the rabid anti-Thaksin mob on here accuse the person of not spending enough time in Thailand or being out of touch with Thai current affairs. Predictable and tedious but amusing nonetheless.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Oberkommando

[Steve2UK]

Based on his inaccuracies and glaring omissions, it's a shame he doesn't get to Thailand very much.

What's omitted (glaringly or otherwise) from an article of finite length is always going to be subjective - but then you, as a heavily-practised propagandist, already know that. The same, of course, can be said for the tone - which strikes me as somewhat harsh in this case; then again, others will think it doesn't go far enough. In any event, it's an opinion piece in the "Comment" section and the tone is up to the writer.

Accuracy is another matter - and should be more possible to gauge objectively. You appear to imply that the piece is full of inaccuracies. Aside from the point that the Rohingya events occurred in December rather than January - what are they? In any event, I would say that Parry is wrong to lay the blame for the military's actions in this affair implicitly at Abhisit's door; a different matter when it comes to considering what Abhisit has done/not done about it after the fact.

The charges/convictions against Thaksin are an inevitable blur for many - so I'm not embarrassed to admit I can't be sure whether both he and/or his wife were both found guilty in the land case?

So - a date wrong and maybe (?) a detail about one of many court cases. What are the other inaccuracies?

[Steve2UK]

When you say 'most of us agree' Abhisit should step down,

I suspect that means far fewer of US than you think.

Most of the Thai people I meet, seem pretty happy with

ANYONE leading them forward.

We have a functioning government and times are too tough to blythly surrender it

to the likes of Pheu Thai and Chalerm, on the basis of righting some marginally perceived inequity.

The country can't afford changing to a significantly smaller, and leaky boat in these roughening seas.

(I did have a lovely line about also counting voices in your head,

but won't really use it per se. So not an actual flame.... )

And "include me out" of that "US". I don't give much for his chances, but I still regard Abhisit as the least bad option. IMO Thailand needs time for things to settle down and work their Thai way through.

[ballpoint]

From The Times (of London)

" The charmer making a mess of his country.The Prime Minister of Thailand, best friends at Eton with Boris Johnson, is presiding over a chaotic and callous regime.

However indignant you felt about him, and the calamitous mess over which he presides, it would be impossible ever to throw a shoe at a man such as Abhisit Vejjajiva. Among his peers, the new Prime Minister of Thailand challenges even Barack Obama for the title of World's Most Decent Leader.

As a young politician, he was a heart-throb among middle-aged Bangkok matrons. At Eton, where he was known by the name "Mark Vejj", he was best friends with Boris Johnson. He is handsome, youthful, brilliant, cosmopolitan, impeccably well mannered and rather posh. So when he gives a speech at his old university, Oxford, tomorrow, it is safe to assume that the audience at St John's College will be keeping its brogues securely laced.

But Mr Abhisit's charm should not be a distraction from ugly truths about what is happening in Thailand. In the past four years, it has gone from being one of the most free and stable countries of South-East Asia to one of its most chaotic and divided. Writers, academics and journalists have been imprisoned or hounded into exile for harmless comment on Thailand's monarchy. Helpless boat people have been chased out to sea to their deaths. Democratically elected governments have been forced out, first by the army and then by the power of the mob.

All of this has been done with the approval - sometimes passive, sometimes explicit - of the nice Mr Abhisit. The title of his talk at St John's tomorrow, "Taking on the Challenges of Democracy", could not be more appropriate, for Thailand's leader is indeed democratically challenged. Rarely since the days of Dr Faustus has a gifted and promising man achieved power through such grubby and disreputable means.

Since Mr Abhisit became the leader of the Democrat Party in 2005, there have been two general elections in Thailand. He boycotted the first one in 2006, which was won, for the third time in a row, by the man at the centre of 21st-century Thai politics, Thaksin Shinawatra. His next electoral test came in 2007, when he was defeated decisively. The greatest "challenge" of democracy for Mr Abhisit has been as simple as that - whenever they have been given a chance to elect him, Thai voters have chosen someone else.

Thaksin represents another challenge: a profoundly unsavoury politician who is adored by the majority of his own people. As Prime Minister, he used his great wealth to political and personal advantage (last year he and his wife were convicted in absentia of a multimillion-pound property cheat). In southern Thailand he ordered a brutal campaign against Islamic insurgents which left scores of innocent people dead.

Thaksin's version of the war on drugs was to license the police to execute without trial anyone they suspected of being a dealer. But for all of this, he changed for the better the lives of millions of rural Thais.

His cheap healthcare programme gave the poorest people access to affordable medical treatment for the first time ever. A micro-credit scheme allowed many villagers to lift themselves out of subsistence level poverty. But the majority of Thais chose him as their leader, time and again - and after he was forced into exile, and then criminally convicted, they have gone on voting for his political heirs and supporters.

By contrast Mr Abhisit owes his job, not to the will of his people, but to the support of powerful friends - and even they have required a comically large number of attempts to propel their boy to power. First there was the army, which drove Mr Thaksin into exile in a bloodless coup in 2006. Over the course of a year, the generals convened an assembly of tame delegates who rewrote the country's constitution to give Mr Abhisit a better chance of winning. To imagine the election which followed in footballing terms: the Democrat Party was playing downhill, against a team without a striker, in a game refereed by one of their dads. And still Thaksin's side won.

At this point, Mr Abhisit was helped out by a new and sinister force in Thailand - the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). At times he has had the decency to appear slightly embarrassed by this mob of yellow-shirted anti-Thaksin activists, led by a rich media owner and apparently supported by the Thai Queen. What exactly the PAD believes in is not easy to pin down, but at heart they want to strip the vote from those silly people who can't be trusted not to vote for Thaksin's side.

When they don't get their way, they resort to force, occupying first the Prime Minister's office and then Bangkok's international airport last year, in chaotic scenes that were broadcast across the world.

The Democrats have never employed such tactics themselves, but they have benefited from them. After the latest pro-Thaksin Government was forced from power by a court ruling last year, they formed a Government by jumping into bed not only with PAD supporters, but even former Thaksin cronies, under the watchful supervision of the army. Mr Abhisit might argue that these were political compromises necessary so that a decent man could finally get his hands on the levers of government. But in the three months since he became Prime Minister, he has come to look more like the puppet than the master of those who hoisted him to power.

A series of disgraceful incidents have made it harder than ever to understand what has happened to the liberalism for which he used to stand. In January, the Thai military beat up and set adrift some 1,000 boat people from Burma, scores of whom died at sea. Journalists and academics continue to be arrested and imprisoned under Thailand's Kafakaesque lèse-majesté law, under which a prison sentence of 12 years can be imposed for dispraise of the Thai King and his family.

At times, it has looked as if someone in power is consciously making a fool of Mr Abhisit - such as the speech he gave last week about the importance of media freedom, which was followed a few hours later by the arrest of the webmaster of an independent website.

Thailand is no Zimbabwe or China, and by comparison with most of their Asian neighbours, Thais are blessedly free and prosperous. But it has the alarming air of a democracy lurching into reverse and out of control, in which familiar freedoms are flying out of the window with unpredictable speed. It is all the more painful that this should be happening under a leader of such obvious talent, a man with all the qualifications except the essential one - democratic legitimacy".

Richard Lloyd Parry is Asia editor of The Times

Great post! Most of us agree that its time for Abhisit to step down. The corruption and anti-democratic slant to his administration is only getting worse and absolutely no good is coming from his clinging to power.

Most of us? Just how many voices are there in your head?

This piece is written for the tabloid crazed British public. It's sensationalist format reveals its true colours right from the start: "a chaotic and callous regime", "a heart throb", "rather posh". Even his biggest rant at Abhisit's failures while in power "a series of disgraceful incidents" rings hollow. After that build up, we are given two. The Rohingya incident, which is now known to have resulted from the policy of the Samak government, and the LM laws, which the government can do little about without the permission of the Privy Council and HM the King. Ironically, the next thing he says, about the media freedom speech and webmaster arrest, could well be true, but shows up Thaksin as the villain, as it would be his supporters in the police force that would have the most to gain from such an act. I notice he totally forgets to tell us just why Thaksin was removed. His abuses of democracy are well documented, but not in this sycophantic piece.

A more truthful article saying that Abhisit is gradually winning over Thais, his government has been getting on with the job, Thaksin is getting increasingly desperate as he slips further from the lime light etc etc simply would have a very slim chance of getting published.

[Plus]

The only threat to Mark Vejj's position will be elections.

You know it, he knows it and that's why they won't happen.

Two things - he doesn't have to worry about elections, no one is even asking him, and even if he agreed on holding elections, his coalition would come back even stronger.

Samak and Somchai knew very well that they couldn't hold their coalition together in teh face of protests and political stalemate and refused to call elections when EVERYBODY was calling for it.

Politically PTP is all but finished - no leaders, no platform, no agenda, no credibility, no partners, and dozens of MPs want to defect to Newin and his new party. That's the only potential threat to Democrats - Newin growing too strong to handle, but it's no biggy - Newin is not going to join pro-Thaksin camp any time soon, PTP is isolated.

[Oberkommando]

A more truthful article saying that Abhisit is gradually winning over Thais

If by "winning over Thais" you mean he's silencing dissenting opinion, strengthening censorship of media and restricting freedom of speech then yes, he's winning over Thais.

[LevelHead]

From The Times (of London)

" The charmer making a mess of his country.The Prime Minister of Thailand, best friends at Eton with Boris Johnson, is presiding over a chaotic and callous regime.

However indignant you felt about him, and the calamitous mess over which he presides, it would be impossible ever to throw a shoe at a man such as Abhisit Vejjajiva. Among his peers, the new Prime Minister of Thailand challenges even Barack Obama for the title of World's Most Decent Leader.

As a young politician, he was a heart-throb among middle-aged Bangkok matrons. At Eton, where he was known by the name "Mark Vejj", he was best friends with Boris Johnson. He is handsome, youthful, brilliant, cosmopolitan, impeccably well mannered and rather posh. So when he gives a speech at his old university, Oxford, tomorrow, it is safe to assume that the audience at St John's College will be keeping its brogues securely laced.

But Mr Abhisit's charm should not be a distraction from ugly truths about what is happening in Thailand. In the past four years, it has gone from being one of the most free and stable countries of South-East Asia to one of its most chaotic and divided. Writers, academics and journalists have been imprisoned or hounded into exile for harmless comment on Thailand's monarchy. Helpless boat people have been chased out to sea to their deaths. Democratically elected governments have been forced out, first by the army and then by the power of the mob.

All of this has been done with the approval - sometimes passive, sometimes explicit - of the nice Mr Abhisit. The title of his talk at St John's tomorrow, "Taking on the Challenges of Democracy", could not be more appropriate, for Thailand's leader is indeed democratically challenged. Rarely since the days of Dr Faustus has a gifted and promising man achieved power through such grubby and disreputable means.

Since Mr Abhisit became the leader of the Democrat Party in 2005, there have been two general elections in Thailand. He boycotted the first one in 2006, which was won, for the third time in a row, by the man at the centre of 21st-century Thai politics, Thaksin Shinawatra. His next electoral test came in 2007, when he was defeated decisively. The greatest "challenge" of democracy for Mr Abhisit has been as simple as that - whenever they have been given a chance to elect him, Thai voters have chosen someone else.

Thaksin represents another challenge: a profoundly unsavoury politician who is adored by the majority of his own people. As Prime Minister, he used his great wealth to political and personal advantage (last year he and his wife were convicted in absentia of a multimillion-pound property cheat). In southern Thailand he ordered a brutal campaign against Islamic insurgents which left scores of innocent people dead.

Thaksin's version of the war on drugs was to license the police to execute without trial anyone they suspected of being a dealer. But for all of this, he changed for the better the lives of millions of rural Thais.

His cheap healthcare programme gave the poorest people access to affordable medical treatment for the first time ever. A micro-credit scheme allowed many villagers to lift themselves out of subsistence level poverty. But the majority of Thais chose him as their leader, time and again - and after he was forced into exile, and then criminally convicted, they have gone on voting for his political heirs and supporters.

By contrast Mr Abhisit owes his job, not to the will of his people, but to the support of powerful friends - and even they have required a comically large number of attempts to propel their boy to power. First there was the army, which drove Mr Thaksin into exile in a bloodless coup in 2006. Over the course of a year, the generals convened an assembly of tame delegates who rewrote the country's constitution to give Mr Abhisit a better chance of winning. To imagine the election which followed in footballing terms: the Democrat Party was playing downhill, against a team without a striker, in a game refereed by one of their dads. And still Thaksin's side won.

At this point, Mr Abhisit was helped out by a new and sinister force in Thailand - the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). At times he has had the decency to appear slightly embarrassed by this mob of yellow-shirted anti-Thaksin activists, led by a rich media owner and apparently supported by the Thai Queen. What exactly the PAD believes in is not easy to pin down, but at heart they want to strip the vote from those silly people who can't be trusted not to vote for Thaksin's side.

When they don't get their way, they resort to force, occupying first the Prime Minister's office and then Bangkok's international airport last year, in chaotic scenes that were broadcast across the world.

The Democrats have never employed such tactics themselves, but they have benefited from them. After the latest pro-Thaksin Government was forced from power by a court ruling last year, they formed a Government by jumping into bed not only with PAD supporters, but even former Thaksin cronies, under the watchful supervision of the army. Mr Abhisit might argue that these were political compromises necessary so that a decent man could finally get his hands on the levers of government. But in the three months since he became Prime Minister, he has come to look more like the puppet than the master of those who hoisted him to power.

A series of disgraceful incidents have made it harder than ever to understand what has happened to the liberalism for which he used to stand. In January, the Thai military beat up and set adrift some 1,000 boat people from Burma, scores of whom died at sea. Journalists and academics continue to be arrested and imprisoned under Thailand's Kafakaesque lèse-majesté law, under which a prison sentence of 12 years can be imposed for dispraise of the Thai King and his family.

At times, it has looked as if someone in power is consciously making a fool of Mr Abhisit - such as the speech he gave last week about the importance of media freedom, which was followed a few hours later by the arrest of the webmaster of an independent website.

Thailand is no Zimbabwe or China, and by comparison with most of their Asian neighbours, Thais are blessedly free and prosperous. But it has the alarming air of a democracy lurching into reverse and out of control, in which familiar freedoms are flying out of the window with unpredictable speed. It is all the more painful that this should be happening under a leader of such obvious talent, a man with all the qualifications except the essential one - democratic legitimacy".

Richard Lloyd Parry is Asia editor of The Times

Great post! Most of us agree that its time for Abhisit to step down. The corruption and anti-democratic slant to his administration is only getting worse and absolutely no good is coming from his clinging to power.

Good post !

[animatic]

The only threat to Mark Vejj's position will be elections.

You know it, he knows it and that's why they won't happen.

Two things - he doesn't have to worry about elections, no one is even asking him, and even if he agreed on holding elections, his coalition would come back even stronger.

Samak and Somchai knew very well that they couldn't hold their coalition together in teh face of protests and political stalemate and refused to call elections when EVERYBODY was calling for it.

Politically PTP is all but finished - no leaders, no platform, no agenda, no credibility, no partners, and dozens of MPs want to defect to Newin and his new party. That's the only potential threat to Democrats - Newin growing too strong to handle, but it's no biggy - Newin is not going to join pro-Thaksin camp any time soon, PTP is isolated.

Kuhn Mark knows that with some time and good work he CAN win the next election.

But he has to succeed in erasing old chimera about the party and prove the real party CAN help the people.

He will not win over the red shirts, and isn't bothering to try, but the average Thai person just wants

some progress they can measure, not promises or recycled memories.

There is no chance they will call an election until they have a current record to run on.

They have absolutely no reason or need to call one at this time.

I don't blame them a bit for thinking that way.

Right not the opposition is spinning spin to try and create an impression,

but an impression can be easily trumped by facts,

and Mark is working up a set of facts for the future.

Newin may well be the next power opposition, but can't really step forward for 3 odd years yet.

For the moment I suspect he would be quite happy to be part of a successful government,

and earn himself some credits for the long run. And maybe back off some threats too.

PTP is a spent condom by the side of the road right now.

Only making noise when the soi dogs step on it by accident.

Edited March 13, 2009 by animatic

[Oberkommando]

The only threat to Mark Vejj's position will be elections.

You know it, he knows it and that's why they won't happen.

Two things - he doesn't have to worry about elections, no one is even asking him, and even if he agreed on holding elections, his coalition would come back even stronger.

Samak and Somchai knew very well that they couldn't hold their coalition together in teh face of protests and political stalemate and refused to call elections when EVERYBODY was calling for it.

Politically PTP is all but finished - no leaders, no platform, no agenda, no credibility, no partners, and dozens of MPs want to defect to Newin and his new party. That's the only potential threat to Democrats - Newin growing too strong to handle, but it's no biggy - Newin is not going to join pro-Thaksin camp any time soon, PTP is isolated.

Kuhn Mark knows that with some time and good work he CAN win the next election.

But he has to succeed in erasing old chimera about the party and prove the real party CAN help the people.

He will not win over the red shirts, and isn't bothering to try, but the average Thai person just wants

some progress they can measure, not promises or recycled memories.

There is no chance they will call an election until they have a current record to run on.

They have absolutely no reason or need to call one at this time.

I don't blame them a bit for thinking that way.

Right not the opposition is spinning spin to try and create an impression,

but an impression can be easily trumped by facts,

and Mark is working up a set of facts for the future.

Newin may well be the next power opposition, but can't really step forward for 3 odd years yet.

For the moment I suspect he would be quite happy to be part of a successful government,

and earn himself some credits for the long run. And maybe back off some threats too.

PTP is a spent condom by the side of the road right now.

Only making noise when the soi dogs step on it by accident.

You can dream, however that is all your post is, with a pinch of wishful thinking for good measure.

He'll never win a fairly contested election.

The Democrats have taken power at entirely the wrong time; a Worldwide depression, Thailand in deep recession already and the sh*t hasn't even hit the fan yet. Unemployment is rising as is crime. Tourism down almost 40% in the first two months of this year.

Those conditions will make his unelectable Government even more unpopular as the crisis deepens.

The Democrats, sourly remembered for their bitter medicine policy after the 97 crash, can't work miracles.

[Journalist]

Politically PTP is all but finished - no leaders, no platform, no agenda, no credibility, no partners, and dozens of MPs want to defect to Newin and his new party. That's the only potential threat to Democrats - Newin growing too strong to handle, but it's no biggy - Newin is not going to join pro-Thaksin camp any time soon, PTP is isolated.

Pity Newin can't serve out his ban quietly. If it was a PPP banned member participating politically in the way you describe - you'd be screaming yourself hoarse with anger !

[animatic]

And of course your stoking the fires of abject negativity is a good thing....

[sriracha john]

As we trudge past Post # 400 with another 100 off-topic posts since the post below, are we any closer to finishing up the discussion on the OP of this thread?

Is the ASEAN Summit still going on?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...-thailand-image

PM worries about Thailand image

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 20/02/2009 at 10:07 AM

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Friday expressed concerns about Thailand's image as the red-shirt supporters plan to hold rallies during the 14th Asean Summit.

He, however, said he is confident that the summit will serve as an opportunity for Thailand to restore confidence as it is serving as the host of the summit.

The premier said he is not worried that the planned rallies of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) will make the Asean leaders to skip the summit.

For the 300th post of this thread, I thought it best to revisit the OP as it seems to have been long forgotten.

The PM was concerned over Thailand's image relative the ASEAN Summit. The ASEAN Summit has been concluded with some quite positive responses, such as described by the American Ambassador to Thailand's words today. Additionally, future ASEAN-related meetings are planned in Phuket. Anyway, the point being the Summit has finished.

The Red Shirt "rally" at the ASEAN Summit while it was still going on consisted of 10 people. This was after the Red Shirt leader had stated that there were going to be quote, "hundreds of thousands", unquote:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2566357

Anyway, the point being the Summit went off without a hitch. There was no "ASEAN leader skipped the Summit."

And Thailand's image has improved, to whatever measurable degree, because of it.

Will Thailand's image ever stop being a concern for the Prime Minister? Obviously not....(and that's a good thing)... but for the purposes of those concerns and image as described in this OP, the chapter is finished and thankfully one that was completed on a positive note.

[Plus]

Politically PTP is all but finished - no leaders, no platform, no agenda, no credibility, no partners, and dozens of MPs want to defect to Newin and his new party. That's the only potential threat to Democrats - Newin growing too strong to handle, but it's no biggy - Newin is not going to join pro-Thaksin camp any time soon, PTP is isolated.

Pity Newin can't serve out his ban quietly. If it was a PPP banned member participating politically in the way you describe - you'd be screaming yourself hoarse with anger !

You think none of TRT/PPP execs are playing any role in PTP operations? You need to look up post by SJ with his custom "Banned N.." comments? I don't Think I've exressed any particular outrage, even if they attended official party functions. Newin is no better or worse, he stays out of public eye.

Newin's boys will rob the country blind if not kept in check, btw. Dems should be very worried because they will create all sorts of problems for their coalition.

I keep noticing that everytime some new scandal breaks out, it's one of those dumb ministers from coalition parties.

[Mario2008]

Post not referring to the proper name of Thaksin and not following quoting guidelins regarding newspaper arrticles deleted.

[Old Man River]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LevelHead, when your hero's were in government, most countries were focusing on the economic mess the global economy was already in. Instead, your hero's were focusing on personal issues like how they could stay in power. They studied this while "Rome" burned, economically. By the time the court's could kick these buffoons out of government, the Thai economy was already in a tailspin. Then Abhisit's government came in, grabbed shovels, and have been trying to dig the country out of the mess your hero's denied existed.

Since you support Abhisit's predecessors (PTP/PPP), I am surprised of your comments on the economy. If you supported them, then you think like them and since your hero's had no interest in economic matters, I would have thought all their supporters would, similarly, have zero interest in economic matters. Hence, my surprise that you even mention the world "economy".

BTW, blame the PAD if you wish, but remember, your hero's did nothing about them. They stood by and watched. In essence, by their inactions, they just as much supported the PAD as anyone else.

[LevelHead]

TRT !!

Takky came to power, an airport that the yellow democrats had taken over two decades to do nothing with, apart from spending billions, was suddenly finished under Takky / TRT.

TRT did lots of things, loads of new roads, loads of new investment, new airport finished, economy growing...............

It was only the intervention of the coup in 2006 that slammed the brakes on to everything, and with the yellows causing failure of everything from 2008 onwards, well........

Yes, the Thai people would love TRT and Takky back.

Back to when the country was moving forward, when people in the region were saying Thailand "could be the next regional leader".

Sadly, since 2006 the wrong people have been in control, and so, the country is falling down, so sad. So very sad.

[hammered]

TRT !!

Takky came to power, an airport that the yellow democrats had taken over two decades to do nothing with, apart from spending billions, was suddenly finished under Takky / TRT.

TRT did lots of things, loads of new roads, loads of new investment, new airport finished, economy growing...............

It was only the intervention of the coup in 2006 that slammed the brakes on to everything, and with the yellows causing failure of everything from 2008 onwards, well........

Yes, the Thai people would love TRT and Takky back.

Back to when the country was moving forward, when people in the region were saying Thailand "could be the next regional leader".

Sadly, since 2006 the wrong people have been in control, and so, the country is falling down, so sad. So very sad.

Actually Thailands growth had already started to slide back in 2005 when Thaksin was well in command according to the well known PAD mouthpiece the Economist. In the years that followed it mostly flatlined from that point. Sorry that fact doesnt fit your arguement. Dont believe every bit of propoganda that comes out of Thaksin and allies mouths just becaue you like them. It is worth checking facts.

[Lite Beer]

A post concerning Moderation has been deleted as per Forum Rules. Please read them. Thanks.

5) Discussion of moderation issues, actions or moderation policies concerning individual cases are not allowed in the forums. Such comments should be directed to a moderator or administrator, and not discussed on the forum.

[Steve2UK]

As we trudge past Post # 400 with another 100 off-topic posts since the post below, are we any closer to finishing up the discussion on the OP of this thread?

Is the ASEAN Summit still going on?

That's rich....... No fewer than 7 of the 100 posts are from you - and you were "resigned" for how much of that period? The topic title is "Prime Minister Worries about Thailand Image". To choose just one of your posts: pics of Samak recycled from your electronic scrapbook have what to do with the current PM or Thailand's image now? By your own switched and selective criteria of what's "off-topic", your posts about arrest warrants for UDD protesters at GH in February and UDD Lampang egg-throwers turning themselves in have what to do with the ASEAN summit in Hua Hin - long since over? Most members have taken the title as a sensible peg on which to hang posts sensibly related to the title - including you; a bit late now (and previously) to narrow your criteria just when it suits you.

The topic title continues to be useful.

[sriracha john]

As we trudge past Post # 400 with another 100 off-topic posts since the post below, are we any closer to finishing up the discussion on the OP of this thread?

Is the ASEAN Summit still going on?

That's rich....... No fewer than 7 of the 100 posts are from you - and you were "resigned" for how much of that period? The topic title is "Prime Minister Worries about Thailand Image". To choose just one of your posts: pics of Samak recycled from your electronic scrapbook have what to do with the current PM or Thailand's image now? By your own switched and selective criteria of what's "off-topic", your posts about arrest warrants for UDD protesters at GH in February and UDD Lampang egg-throwers turning themselves in have what to do with the ASEAN summit in Hua Hin - long since over? Most members have taken the title as a sensible peg on which to hang posts sensibly related to the title - including you; a bit late now (and previously) to narrow your criteria just when it suits you.

The topic title continues to be useful.

And add another post to the bin. I freely admit to posting on this thread as it seemed to be the "Off-Topic Thread". A place to post just any sort of general topic onto. All sorts of topics are bouncing around in here and none relate to the OP. It had gone way off back past # 300 mark and as it rambles past # 400, it never hurts to take stock of where we are.

Still, my own off-topic posts were done only after the purpose of the OP had dimished and ended on the thread.

The OP, which is far more important than the thread title in determining the purpose and scope of a thread... otherwise a thread entitled, "Thaksin Worried", wherein the OP states further that he is worried about the home delivery of his newspaper today due to a strike in Dubai. The next day the thread is essentially finished when the strike is settled, Thaksin gets his paper and is no longer worried about that topic. But, by your contention that the title, in this case "Thaksin Worried", is the determinant of whether a thread is finished or not. So your saying that it should therefore afford people to post on that thread and that it remain open for any and all sorts of sources for Thaksin to be worried for days, weeks, years? That there is never a reason to reasonable end it to because Thaksin is always going to continue to be worried about one thing or another.

So, yes, I've been off-topic... everyone on here has...it's all been off-topic after the ASEAN summit ended...

but hey, when everyone is doing it...joining in... a topic here, a topic there... some replies referring to one topic, another reply to a different topic.....a swirling mass of topics... . and sorry, but as a normal human man, I didn't wish to miss out on the free-for-all orgy.

Edited March 14, 2009 by sriracha john

[ballpoint]

TRT !!

Takky came to power, an airport that the yellow democrats had taken over two decades to do nothing with, apart from spending billions, was suddenly finished under Takky / TRT.

TRT did lots of things, loads of new roads, loads of new investment, new airport finished, economy growing...............

It was only the intervention of the coup in 2006 that slammed the brakes on to everything, and with the yellows causing failure of everything from 2008 onwards, well........

Yes, the Thai people would love TRT and Takky back.

Back to when the country was moving forward, when people in the region were saying Thailand "could be the next regional leader".

Sadly, since 2006 the wrong people have been in control, and so, the country is falling down, so sad. So very sad.

It's pointless to list the infrastructure improvements made during a government's term to try and boost the case for that government's love for the people. In terms of what directly affects my area: The village got electricity during the Chatichai Choonhaven government, a sealed road during the Chuan government, a water supply during the Chuan government. The highway from Bangkok to Khorat was upgraded during the Chuan government, highway 24 from Si Khiew to Nang Rong was upgraded during the Thaksin government. Let's see, that's Chatichai 1, Thaksin 1 and Chuan 3. You could say a resounding win for Chuan then. But I would never be so simplistic as to equate natural progress with the supposed generosity of one man.

And what's with the "yellow democrats" having two decades to do something about the airport? More lies used to try and bolster your argument? The land was purchased in 1973, construction began in 2002, the democrats were in power for a grand total of 7 years of this period, including a time of economic downturn. The new airport was turned into a grandiose, corruption riddled, face making scheme by Thaksin. However, it's real reason for being built at the time was that 70% of its cost was funded by the Japan Bank for International Cooperation, pushed by Japanese export businesses on the Eastern seaboard. Besides which, it's debatable as to whether it's "finished" or not, Thaksin's bumbling interference and attempts to siphon off as much as he could leading to shoddy and dangerous workmanship..

[Steve2UK]

As we trudge past Post # 400 with another 100 off-topic posts since the post below, are we any closer to finishing up the discussion on the OP of this thread?

Is the ASEAN Summit still going on?

That's rich....... No fewer than 7 of the 100 posts are from you - and you were "resigned" for how much of that period? The topic title is "Prime Minister Worries about Thailand Image". To choose just one of your posts: pics of Samak recycled from your electronic scrapbook have what to do with the current PM or Thailand's image now? By your own switched and selective criteria of what's "off-topic", your posts about arrest warrants for UDD protesters at GH in February and UDD Lampang egg-throwers turning themselves in have what to do with the ASEAN summit in Hua Hin - long since over? Most members have taken the title as a sensible peg on which to hang posts sensibly related to the title - including you; a bit late now (and previously) to narrow your criteria just when it suits you.

The topic title continues to be useful.

And add another post to the bin. I freely admit to posting on this thread as it seemed to be the "Off-Topic Thread". A place to post just any sort of general topic onto. All sorts of topics are bouncing around in here and none relate to the OP. It had gone way off back past # 300 mark and as it rambles past # 400, it never hurts to take stock of where we are.

Still, my own off-topic posts were done only after the purpose of the OP had dimished and ended on the thread.

The OP, which is far more important than the thread title in determining the purpose and scope of a thread... otherwise a thread entitled, "Thaksin Worried", wherein the OP states further that he is worried about the home delivery of his newspaper today due to a strike in Dubai. The next day the thread is essentially finished when the strike is settled, Thaksin gets his paper and is no longer worried about that topic. But, by your contention that the title, in this case "Thaksin Worried", is the determinant of whether a thread is finished or not. So your saying that it should therefore afford people to post on that thread and that it remain open for any and all sorts of sources for Thaksin to be worried for days, weeks, years? That there is never a reason to reasonable end it to because Thaksin is always going to continue to be worried about one thing or another.

So, yes, I've been off-topic... everyone on here has...it's all been off-topic after the ASEAN summit ended...

but hey, when everyone is doing it...joining in... a topic here, a topic there... some replies referring to one topic, another reply to a different topic.....a swirling mass of topics... . and sorry, but as a normal human man, I didn't wish to miss out on the free-for-all orgy.

I'm saying what I said - and not the absurd balloon (in any case based on selective assumptions and false assertions) that you clumsily try to inflate to obscure it. FAFF* score (out of 10): 2

Back on topic - there's still no answer to the question I asked in you Post #395.

*Fred Astaire Fancy Footwork

[Oberkommando]

Actually Thailands growth had already started to slide back in 2005 when Thaksin was well in command according to the well known PAD mouthpiece the Economist. In the years that followed it mostly flatlined from that point. Sorry that fact doesnt fit your arguement. Dont believe every bit of propoganda that comes out of Thaksin and allies mouths just becaue you like them. It is worth checking facts.

Thailand's economic growth during the Thaksin era.

2002 - 5.3%

2003 - 7.1%

2004 - 6.3%

2005 - 4.5%

Of course the "slide" in 2005 as you put it was in part due to the Tsunami and rising oil prices.

Still a remarkable achievement over the course of those 4 years.

It certainly is worth checking facts.

I wonder how the Democrats will fare with the economy already reported to be in recession?

[jumnien]

Thailand's economic growth during the Thaksin era.

2002 - 5.3%

2003 - 7.1%

2004 - 6.3%

2005 - 4.5%

Clearly, Abhisit will be much more successful at hitting the "sufficiency economy" targets and leave these obscene growth figures in the past where they belong.

[Siripon]

Actually Thailands growth had already started to slide back in 2005 when Thaksin was well in command according to the well known PAD mouthpiece the Economist. In the years that followed it mostly flatlined from that point. Sorry that fact doesnt fit your arguement. Dont believe every bit of propoganda that comes out of Thaksin and allies mouths just becaue you like them. It is worth checking facts.

Thailand's economic growth during the Thaksin era.

2002 - 5.3%

2003 - 7.1%

2004 - 6.3%

2005 - 4.5%

Of course the "slide" in 2005 as you put it was in part due to the Tsunami and rising oil prices.

Still a remarkable achievement over the course of those 4 years.

It certainly is worth checking facts.

I wonder how the Democrats will fare with the economy already reported to be in recession?

Nothing remarkable about those figures, growth was far higher in the late 80s, early 90s. The Democrats had to save Thailand after the Tom Yang Kung crisis, they're used to coming in to pick up the mess after others, Thaksin came in after the Democrats had done the hard work, BTW who sold the Thai baht abroad knowing in advance it would be devalued?

[Oberkommando]

Nothing remarkable about those figures, growth was far higher in the late 80s, early 90s. The Democrats had to save Thailand after the Tom Yang Kung crisis, they're used to coming in to pick up the mess after others, Thaksin came in after the Democrats had done the hard work, BTW who sold the Thai baht abroad knowing in advance it would be devalued?

Yes, the figures speak for themselves.

Of course we could post stats showing how under the TRT Thailand's GDP almost doubled and that the poorest areas in the country doubled their productivity. Or the massive reduction in poverty especially in the rural areas that suffered so much under the Democrats. We could go on and on but those are the facts and the reasons the Democrats are unelectable, ten years on, and much to the chagrin of the coup supporters.

As to the devalue of the Baht it was the crash that caused the floatation after the government refused to devalue it.

Thaksin profiteering from the Baht crashing has been accused by his opposition for many years now and it's old hat. Clutching at straws even.

[ballpoint]

Nothing remarkable about those figures, growth was far higher in the late 80s, early 90s. The Democrats had to save Thailand after the Tom Yang Kung crisis, they're used to coming in to pick up the mess after others, Thaksin came in after the Democrats had done the hard work, BTW who sold the Thai baht abroad knowing in advance it would be devalued?

Yes, the figures speak for themselves.

Of course we could post stats showing how under the TRT Thailand's GDP almost doubled and that the poorest areas in the country doubled their productivity. Or the massive reduction in poverty especially in the rural areas that suffered so much under the Democrats. We could go on and on but those are the facts and the reasons the Democrats are unelectable, ten years on, and much to the chagrin of the coup supporters.

As to the devalue of the Baht it was the crash that caused the floatation after the government refused to devalue it.

Thaksin profiteering from the Baht crashing has been accused by his opposition for many years now and it's old hat. Clutching at straws even.

I trust you have evidence to support these "facts"? Please, share it with us.