Marriage, Sinsod, In-laws And 1.5m Baht

[Birdman]

Sin sod = buying a woman

going to a brothel = buying a woman

Excellent analysis , but it is more than that ,

Brothel = hire temporarily

Sin sod = Buy on a permanent basis

Human traffic = Buy another human

Correlation ??????????????

Permanent is if no divorce, if divorce, it was a bad deal, for the one who payed.

I must addmit, I do not know much about Thai or Chinese culture and about selling their daughters.

Only if you divorce within 7 days, you will get the money back.

[WOWAsia]

Sin sod = buying a woman

going to a brothel = buying a woman

Excellent analysis , but it is more than that ,

Brothel = hire temporarily

Sin sod = Buy on a permanent basis

Human traffic = Buy another human

Correlation ??????????????

Permanent is if no divorce, if divorce, it was a bad deal, for the one who payed.

I must addmit, I do not know much about Thai or Chinese culture and about selling their daughters.

Only if you divorce within 7 days, you will get the money back.

I do not know if thats true or not, but then with only 7 days they really secured that they can keep the money!

[dumball]

Sin sod = buying a woman

going to a brothel = buying a woman

Excellent analysis , but it is more than that ,

Brothel = hire temporarily

Sin sod = Buy on a permanent basis

Human traffic = Buy another human

Correlation ??????????????

Permanent is if no divorce, if divorce, it was a bad deal, for the one who payed.

I must addmit, I do not know much about Thai or Chinese culture and about selling their daughters.

Only if you divorce within 7 days, you will get the money back.

Are you joking ? Thai are quick to grab but very reticent to return .

[CrossBones]

Need help

I would like some feedback on the following situation. It has to do with marriage, sinsod and in-laws.

I was recently married and provided 900,000 baht in jewelry to my bride and 600,000 baht in sinsod to the parents. It sounds like a lot (which I agree), but my wife insisted that it was the right thing to do.

She has a very good status job with the government, masters degree from overseas, 30 something, never married, no boyfriends, and she claims that this amount was needed, as determined by her parents. I reluctantly agreed, being from a western culture where equality is more common (sharing of the wedding costs).

I provided the money because I love my wife, and also in part to see how her parents would react. It wasn’t clear if they were really traditional or maybe saw me as a rich foreigner with money to burn (which I burned on the marriage). My wife’s father always talks about money. He probably dreams about it also. I had a concern prior to being married about this obsession and my wife just said that it is part of the culture and he will stop after we get married. Well, he still calls about four times a week, asking about what we did and how much we spent. I informed her that this will cause undue stress in our relationship if he consistently tries to control any financial decisions we make. He tries to monitor everything. He mentioned that I should invest in a business, like a gas station, with his son.

My wife said the sinsod is just part of the tradition and her parents would return it. Prior to the marriage she said that her father has enough money and will help us live a nice life. Well, it’s been several month and we currently live in an older rented studio condo and the parents haven’t said anything. It’s not the most convenient way to live as a married couple. It is more common in my home country to use a good portion of the money as a down-payment on a house. I come from an Asian background, so I have some understanding of face. I satisfied my father-in-laws face by providing a lot of my savings for the marriage. But he has done nothing in return to salvage mine.

I read about the Thai ‘ego’ and the need to satisfy it. Her father lives in a nice house (probably worth 12 million baht or more). But her sister lives in a very old townhome which was bought for a few hundred thousand baht some years ago. It’s strange to see the contrast in living. Her sister has children and from a western standpoint, the living standard would be considered near poverty.

Am I trying to analyze her family’s intention too much, or should I just accept it as Thai culture?

Mate - Middle class Thais dont pay Sin Sot any more....

And the working class ones should be paying you. Its not unreasonable to ask the father for some land, on which you might build a house etc etc.

You have been burned!

[henryalleman]

So after all of your conjecture and espousing the workings 0f explotation by a Chinese family , what has this to do with Thailand and the marriage of two people in love who should not be ripped off for the benifit of the family ? You are obviously a very gullible person , live with it .

Are you sure he has a genuine love for her and that he is telling us the truth?

Just look to a possible other end of the story, who could be the reality also.

A guy with a crummy 25000 Baht job start an relationship with a 30 something old women. She have clearly an excellent education, good career and look not too bad. When she invite him to visit her parents he saw that they live in a 12 million Baht villa. He thinks WOW, her father must be realy well of. Because he could afford to let his daughter study abroad and live in an expensive house, her brother have his own business invested by his father, this could be the catch of my life. So he ask him to married his daughter. But the old geezer saw the $$ signs in his eyes and don't trust him at all, thinking that the boyfriend of his daughter is a golddigger, so to scare him off he ask an Sinsod of 1.5 million Baht. The guy think OK, I will try to find the money because its a good and sound investment in my future, because I hope that the sinsod will be immeadetely returned after the marriage and he will buy a house for us, and set me up in some bussiness and will arrange I have a comfortable life, because I hate my low wage job and this could be an oppertunity to have an comfortable live on the expence of my wife and her family. But his grapes became sour, because the old geezer is not an idiot and like to check out who is son in-law realy is. And suddenly the knight in shining armour dismounted from his horse and in the best Thai BG tradition, start to whining and complaining non stop with his wife about how stingy her father is, and why he not yet have a return of his investemt, and why her father is so stingy not to support him financialy and don't pitty them because he have to live in an old uncomfortable 1 room condo. He was hoping that her father bought at least a comfortable house for him.

If I wrote this story about some BG you would believe it immeadetely, but when its the other way arround you directly dismiss and reject it. So ask yourself who is the gullible one, or is it just impossible that the OP is in fact playing the same scam as a Pattaya BG from Issan.

BTW, I have been accused of many thing, but its the first time somebody call me gullible

[henryalleman]

Need help

I would like some feedback on the following situation. It has to do with marriage, sinsod and in-laws.

I was recently married and provided 900,000 baht in jewelry to my bride and 600,000 baht in sinsod to the parents. It sounds like a lot (which I agree), but my wife insisted that it was the right thing to do.

She has a very good status job with the government, masters degree from overseas, 30 something, never married, no boyfriends, and she claims that this amount was needed, as determined by her parents. I reluctantly agreed, being from a western culture where equality is more common (sharing of the wedding costs).

I provided the money because I love my wife, and also in part to see how her parents would react. It wasn't clear if they were really traditional or maybe saw me as a rich foreigner with money to burn (which I burned on the marriage). My wife's father always talks about money. He probably dreams about it also. I had a concern prior to being married about this obsession and my wife just said that it is part of the culture and he will stop after we get married. Well, he still calls about four times a week, asking about what we did and how much we spent. I informed her that this will cause undue stress in our relationship if he consistently tries to control any financial decisions we make. He tries to monitor everything. He mentioned that I should invest in a business, like a gas station, with his son.

My wife said the sinsod is just part of the tradition and her parents would return it. Prior to the marriage she said that her father has enough money and will help us live a nice life. Well, it's been several month and we currently live in an older rented studio condo and the parents haven't said anything. It's not the most convenient way to live as a married couple. It is more common in my home country to use a good portion of the money as a down-payment on a house. I come from an Asian background, so I have some understanding of face. I satisfied my father-in-laws face by providing a lot of my savings for the marriage. But he has done nothing in return to salvage mine.

I read about the Thai 'ego' and the need to satisfy it. Her father lives in a nice house (probably worth 12 million baht or more). But her sister lives in a very old townhome which was bought for a few hundred thousand baht some years ago. It's strange to see the contrast in living. Her sister has children and from a western standpoint, the living standard would be considered near poverty.

Am I trying to analyze her family's intention too much, or should I just accept it as Thai culture?

Mate - Middle class Thais dont pay Sin Sot any more....

And the working class ones should be paying you. Its not unreasonable to ask the father for some land, on which you might build a house etc etc.

You have been burned!

In a friends family (Thai middle class family employer of 30 people, road construction) an aunt (Thai) came over from Spain to be part on the discussion of sinsod. They paid 600 000 Bath. This was a Thai/Thai marriage.

[dumball]

So after all of your conjecture and espousing the workings 0f explotation by a Chinese family , what has this to do with Thailand and the marriage of two people in love who should not be ripped off for the benifit of the family ? You are obviously a very gullible person , live with it .

Are you sure he has a genuine love for her and that he is telling us the truth?

Just look to a possible other end of the story, who could be the reality also.

A guy with a crummy 25000 Baht job start an relationship with a 30 something old women. She have clearly an excellent education, good career and look not too bad. When she invite him to visit her parents he saw that they live in a 12 million Baht villa. He thinks WOW, her father must be realy well of. Because he could afford to let his daughter study abroad and live in an expensive house, her brother have his own business invested by his father, this could be the catch of my life. So he ask him to married his daughter. But the old geezer saw the $$ signs in his eyes and don't trust him at all, thinking that the boyfriend of his daughter is a golddigger, so to scare him off he ask an Sinsod of 1.5 million Baht. The guy think OK, I will try to find the money because its a good and sound investment in my future, because I hope that the sinsod will be immeadetely returned after the marriage and he will buy a house for us, and set me up in some bussiness and will arrange I have a comfortable life, because I hate my low wage job and this could be an oppertunity to have an comfortable live on the expence of my wife and her family. But his grapes became sour, because the old geezer is not an idiot and like to check out who is son in-law realy is. And suddenly the knight in shining armour dismounted from his horse and in the best Thai BG tradition, start to whining and complaining non stop with his wife about how stingy her father is, and why he not yet have a return of his investemt, and why her father is so stingy not to support him financialy and don't pitty them because he have to live in an old uncomfortable 1 room condo. He was hoping that her father bought at least a comfortable house for him.

If I wrote this story about some BG you would believe it immeadetely, but when its the other way arround you directly dismiss and reject it. So ask yourself who is the gullible one, or is it just impossible that the OP is in fact playing the same scam as a Pattaya BG from Issan.

BTW, I have been accused of many thing, but its the first time somebody call me gullible

Henry , what would a good discussion of all the probabilities be without a compliment thrown in willy-nilly for no express reason ?

[henryalleman]

Henry , what would a good discussion of all the probabilities be without a compliment thrown in willy-nilly for no express reason ?

Thanks, its good to see that you have some sense of humour.

(Life is too serious to take it serious)

[dumball]

Humour is sometimes buried in the content of a post , some responders are too quick to critisise , so miss this , shame realy , because I feel sure there would be less flaming and use of derogitory machinations by posters more intent on only finding what they want to read into a post on any given subject .

Smile and the world smiles with you , cry and you cry in a corner alone

[patklang]

This is a thai tradition but you know what op,you are not thai!!!!!!!

If i ever married my gf then no way would i pay sinsot and my gf and her mom and 2 brothers dont expect me to neither,i did that checking before i settled down with her.Is that using my brain or not lol.

[dumball]

Yeap , sure is , glad to see some-one has it straight .

[apeks1971]

Need help

I would like some feedback on the following situation. It has to do with marriage, sinsod and in-laws.

I was recently married and provided 900,000 baht in jewelry to my bride and 600,000 baht in sinsod to the parents. It sounds like a lot (which I agree), but my wife insisted that it was the right thing to do.

She has a very good status job with the government, masters degree from overseas, 30 something, never married, no boyfriends, and she claims that this amount was needed, as determined by her parents. I reluctantly agreed, being from a western culture where equality is more common (sharing of the wedding costs).

I provided the money because I love my wife, and also in part to see how her parents would react. It wasn’t clear if they were really traditional or maybe saw me as a rich foreigner with money to burn (which I burned on the marriage). My wife’s father always talks about money. He probably dreams about it also. I had a concern prior to being married about this obsession and my wife just said that it is part of the culture and he will stop after we get married. Well, he still calls about four times a week, asking about what we did and how much we spent. I informed her that this will cause undue stress in our relationship if he consistently tries to control any financial decisions we make. He tries to monitor everything. He mentioned that I should invest in a business, like a gas station, with his son.

My wife said the sinsod is just part of the tradition and her parents would return it. Prior to the marriage she said that her father has enough money and will help us live a nice life. Well, it’s been several month and we currently live in an older rented studio condo and the parents haven’t said anything. It’s not the most convenient way to live as a married couple. It is more common in my home country to use a good portion of the money as a down-payment on a house. I come from an Asian background, so I have some understanding of face. I satisfied my father-in-laws face by providing a lot of my savings for the marriage. But he has done nothing in return to salvage mine.

I read about the Thai ‘ego’ and the need to satisfy it. Her father lives in a nice house (probably worth 12 million baht or more). But her sister lives in a very old townhome which was bought for a few hundred thousand baht some years ago. It’s strange to see the contrast in living. Her sister has children and from a western standpoint, the living standard would be considered near poverty.

Am I trying to analyze her family’s intention too much, or should I just accept it as Thai culture?

your nuts mate,would you give that to a british womens family???no you wouldnt,looks like your gonna be taken for a mug and then dropped like a ton of bricks,no sympathy to you at all mate,you got no chance getting back your money,i was married to a thai before and i didnt paye any dowry,i looked after her her in the uk and gave her a better life,its greed all this dowry nonsence,good luck

[travellife]

Nice information from henryallenman. Here is additional information.

- I probably overdress for Thai standards. I wear slacks and dress shoes when I visit the parents.

- I bought her father a bottle of Johnny Walker black label when I first visited

- I follow the thai tradition and didn't hold hand or show any outward affection in front of the parents.

- I asked her father for her daughters hand in marriage

- I own a house back home and don't plan on selling it. When we retire, we will live in both countries. My wife agreed to this.

Her family follows Thai culture, but since there is some Chinese blood on her father's side, it may affect his thinking. Her father was born in Thailand.

From my background, I believe in sharing the costs between families is important so it doesn't appear as one is taking advantage of the other. This is how it is done in my home country. So when I provided money to her family, I can only judge their support of me by how they react. In this case, they are hesitant to return the sinsod, and I can only conclude that they do not trust me. If there is no trust, there can be no long term relationship.

I understand that family is very important in Thailand. And acceptance from the parents is very important. I trust my wife. But its the parents that I feel uncomfortable with. If we were living in another country, it would not be an issue. But since I am living in Thailand, it will be very difficult to live here without the trust of the parents. She provides some money to her mom each month, and has been requested by her brother and sisters to take care of the parents when they get old.

I am not that impressed with any showing of status that her father may try to display. I do not say anything, but showing gold or diamonds is a weak trait. I understand the need for Thai people to satisfy their ego. It is clear with her father. My interest is really just his daughter. To live a comfortable life in Thailand and absorb the culture as best I can. The sinsod amount would help put a down payment on a house.

[Birdman]

Again for all the insecure ones:

If two people love each other and want to marry each other, NOTHING should stand in their way. Everywhere on this planet.

No sinsod, the culture, parents or whatever.

If that's not so, there's something wrong. If you bend to that, you will be bending to that as long as you are married...

[coventry]

Again for all the insecure ones:

If two people love each other and want to marry each other, NOTHING should stand in their way. Everywhere on this planet.

No sinsod, the culture, parents or whatever.

If that's not so, there's something wrong. If you bend to that, you will be bending to that as long as you are married...

Birdman that's a farang way of looking at it and I agree with your statement. Unfortunately in Asia they don't play by the same rules. There's an old saying "when in Rome..............." I admit I didn't pay the sinsot but the subject still rears it's ugly head after 3+ years of marriage. Edited March 2, 2009 by coventry

[Birdman]

Again for all the insecure ones:

If two people love each other and want to marry each other, NOTHING should stand in their way. Everywhere on this planet.

No sinsod, the culture, parents or whatever.

If that's not so, there's something wrong. If you bend to that, you will be bending to that as long as you are married...

Birdman that's a farang way of looking at it and I agree with your statement. Unfortunately in Asia they don't play by the same rules. There's an old saying "when in Rome..............." I admit I didn't pay the sinsot but the subject still rears it's ugly head after 3+ years of marriage.

I'm here since 23 years constantly and have really seen almost all in Thailand,

I can tell you: It's not the farang way of looking at it.

The only thing what matters is love. Everywhere in our world.

[Maigo6]

I can tell you: It's not the farang way of looking at it.

The only thing what matters is love. Everywhere in our world.

Birdman, you are talking about an ideal world, it don't exist mate.

It is what it is, that's all, my Brother got married and spent a fortune on his wedding, probably 12000 + Pounds, rings , wedding dress, bridesmaids dress, suit, reception hall, food, drink, band, cars, photography, church service...this cost a forune........

The Marriage lasted 18 months.

12,000 + Pounds even at todays low rates is what...600,000 baht ?

Then you have all the expense of the divorce, settlements, haggling, legal fees, all the money you invested in your wonderful happy home before it all turned to <deleted>, etc etc etc,and that equals 1000's more............

I have advised him to get a Thai wife instead, it's cheaper.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Maigo6

[ACMIKE]

First of all I didn't read all the posts.....but why would you ask a question like this on a forum where people worry about bing ripped off of 5 baht at McDonalds and everything in Thailand is a scam. You did it, you can't change it, if you are happy you are a lot better off than most of the people on this forum by the posts I see.

Now flame me, I spent too much for a house, to much for a car, too much for everyhing, and I don't care what anyone says, it's not their money, or their business.

Good luck to you and your spouse.

[scottyd]

If that's the case, it seems the marriage is the problem, not the relationship. Relationships take time to develop, and during this process you may realise that it's not right for the both of you, so you can both walk away on good terms.

Unfortunatley alot of people tend to jump stright in the deep end, heart on their sleeve, and get married before they even know their partners surname, and that's when the problems start. Usually marriage does not end on good terms because of all of the money that went into it, and the hasstle of a divorse. You cant just up and leave, you have to piss about first. Then theres all the legalities, is there any wonder why people are bitter after a bad marriage?

Why may I ask, is marriage so important? Me personally, I think it's a mugs game, more trouble than they are worth. Marriage should be specifically for Religious reasons, not for the sake of it.

[a2396]

I can tell you: It's not the farang way of looking at it.

The only thing what matters is love. Everywhere in our world.

Birdman, you are talking about an ideal world, it don't exist mate.

It is what it is, that's all, my Brother got married and spent a fortune on his wedding, probably 12000 + Pounds, rings , wedding dress, bridesmaids dress, suit, reception hall, food, drink, band, cars, photography, church service...this cost a forune........

The Marriage lasted 18 months.

12,000 + Pounds even at todays low rates is what...600,000 baht ?

Then you have all the expense of the divorce, settlements, haggling, legal fees, all the money you invested in your wonderful happy home before it all turned to <deleted>, etc etc etc,and that equals 1000's more............

I have advised him to get a Thai wife instead, it's cheaper.

Thai wife cheaper?? Sin Sod -1,000,000+, gold-2,000, cost of wedding-50,000++, house-2,000,000+, car-1,000,000+. Monthly salary to wife-6,000+. Goodies for wifes's family (optional). Total 4,000,000 bht approx. These are opening numbers, some go a lot higher and of course others claim they pay nothing.

[Loaded]

When you ask the father for the bride's hand, you negotiate the marriage agreement then including who pays for what, the sinsod and whether it's returned. My 1 million was returned the day after the wedding ceremony. My Chinese-Thai wife was also educated overseas. However, I have also heard of my wife's Thai friends being stiffed over the sinsod, so not a problem particular to farang/Thai marriages.

[travellife]

The difficulty with the negotiation was there really wasn't one. The father asked for a specific amount, no negotiation. I informed my wife that the amount was high, but she insisted that he would return the sinsod since the reception would be covered by the guest's gifts. I informed her that the jewelry amount was high, but she said that her sisters received the same amount, and it would embarrass the family if she got less (since she is the most educated). I was asked to buy the jewelry 8 months before the wedding and provide the sinsod 2 months before the wedding. I complied to all the requests, but still feel the relationship with the father is not one of trust. The reason why I complied was because Thai tradition was involved and I did not want to complain and say the culture was wrong. My wife indicated that my relationship with the family will be very good and her father would help us if needed.

I don't think my wife is the one that I cannot trust. I think her father changed his mind, or already had a plan in place that she was unaware of. He controls the family and tries to control the decision making so I can understand the position she is in. She cannot say anything bad about her father.

[Arkady]

Most sinsod cases I have heard of that went badly are those where the money is paid to the father. Most of those where the sinsod is either returned immediately or kept to be disbursed to the daughter on special occasions like buying a house or the birth of a child, it was paid to the mother. There is no rule of thumb but it seems to me that demanding a largish sinsod and keeping it is more typical of poorer families who want to parade it around the village and feel they need the money. Wealthier families are more likely to return some or all of the money, or at least give it to their daughter, as a matter of face to show that they don't need it. Traditionally sinsod is negotitated by a respected figure on behalf of the groom. Saying that no negotiation is possible is regarded as arrogant and discourteous and is break with tradition, although the negotiation is of course an opportunity to price unwanted suitors out of the market. All details have to be agreed beforehand, including the amount to be returned, which is one of the reasons it should be negotiated by some one else with the groom just shaking hands on the deal after all is agreed. If this was just a vague understanding from your wife and you didn't get your father-in-law's specific agreement about returning some or all of the sinsod, it is likely that he doesn't even know about this. His behaviour sounds rather unpleasant but you will have to put up with him, if you want to stay married, as your wife will automatically choose him over you, if there is a problem. I hope she still has the jewellery, although the resale value is probably nowhere near B900,000, unless it was all gold and didn't include a lot of fancy pieces with precious stones. In most cases I know of, just gold is required and usually around half the value of the cash payment, not 50% more. Since you are obviously unhappy about the situation, you should clear the air with your wife and ask point blank, if her father is going to ever return the B600,000. I would tell her that you are willing to let him keep all of it, but would just rather know now so you can plan accordingly. I would be surprised if you ever see any of it but you never know.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Arkady

[travellife]

Most sinsod cases I have heard of that went badly are those where the money is paid to the father. Most of those where the sinsod is either returned immediately or kept to be disbursed to the daughter on special occasions like buying a house or the birth of a child, it was paid to the mother.

I hope she still has the jewellery, although the resale value is probably nowhere near B900,000, unless it was all gold and didn't include a lot of fancy pieces with precious stones.

I was a little suspicious why the father requested the sinsod directly to me and not to any representative. My wife also didn't say anything about a representative. Her father just said 'this is the amount needed' and that was it.

I am not sure what is customary in Thailand, but I would think the jewelry would stay with the family if anything happened to the relationship.

[Maizefarmer]

The difficulty with the negotiation was there really wasn't one. The father asked for a specific amount, no negotiation. I informed my wife that the amount was high, but she insisted that he would return the sinsod since the reception would be covered by the guest's gifts. I informed her that the jewelry amount was high, but she said that her sisters received the same amount, and it would embarrass the family if she got less (since she is the most educated). I was asked to buy the jewelry 8 months before the wedding and provide the sinsod 2 months before the wedding. I complied to all the requests, but still feel the relationship with the father is not one of trust. The reason why I complied was because Thai tradition was involved and I did not want to complain and say the culture was wrong. My wife indicated that my relationship with the family will be very good and her father would help us if needed.

I don't think my wife is the one that I cannot trust. I think her father changed his mind, or already had a plan in place that she was unaware of. He controls the family and tries to control the decision making so I can understand the position she is in. She cannot say anything bad about her father.

........ sisters got the same and therefore there would be embarrasment .... oh yer!

Sorry travelife, its my humble opinion this has 'red flag" written all over it! - and my wife (of about 20years) concurrs.

[travellife]

So it’s been several months. Here is the latest update.

I read on another post about how Thai parents feel they should be re-paid for the cost of raising a child. When a daughter gets married, the parent expects the groom to help pay for this cost. This is how the sinsod is justified in the view of the parents.

In my wife’s case, she obtained a master’s degree overseas. She pays her mom some money every month to show gratitude for her upbringing. So in the end, I will not be getting any of the sinsod back.

I find there are a lot of situations where Thai people do not say anything until later in a relationship. It seems from the outside that information is hidden and later revealed when the time is right.

Her father asked me to invest money in a business with the family, but I believe he will tie this to the amount he thinks that I owe him.

From an outsider of the culture, this thinking is very strange…almost unethical in some way. I believe that each family should try to contribute equally when people are married. Where I was born, typically the bride’s family pays for the reception and the groom buys the ring and pays for the honeymoon. This would normally balance the expenses. But in Thailand, I paid for everything. Her family did not contribute any amount. Not even a thank you.

I am uncomfortable talking with her father since he just talks about money and whether I can invest some money with him. I was considering doing this before I got married, but now think it is best that I don’t.

[Livinginexile]

Interesting comment about the Chinese.

She is Thai with a Chinese heritage. She is the youngest daughter and is responsible for taking care of the parents when they get old. The other daughters have told her this, so I am not sure if it is tradition. She has admitted that her father has an obsession with money. She even tires of the conversations.

It is difficult to know what intention the parents had in approving the marriage. Her father didn't congratulate us. Nor did any of his family say anything directly. My wife says that its just their personality to not openly express such feelings. I found this somewhat strange.

You find a lot of things "strange" son.

Basically you need to except that you have been ripped off.

Not only that but your wife was in on the caper too.

No ifs or buts, thats it.

[patklang]

Not read all the posts,too boring,but you have been stitched up like a kipper.

[MJP]

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run, run!

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run, run!

You can always go and have some fun!

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run, run!

Although I did a long, dull and withering piece about my own demise, this 'Run rabbit' thing will be my standard reply to all such threads from now on.

[teacup]

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run, run!

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run, run!

You can always go and have some fun!

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run, run!

Although I did a long, dull and withering piece about my own demise, this 'Run rabbit' thing will be my standard reply to all such threads from now on.

and whenever you're busy, just let me know...............I can always cut and paste FOR YOU!!